Student Section - Epic Fail

[Gem City]

We say it every year, but every year it seems to get worse. Where the heck are the students? The red scare needs a major overhaul because last night was an embarrassment. I'm just glad Tim Wabler and Dan Curran were there to see it in person. I love UD huh? Uh...fail!

They couldn't even get the students out with offers of free t-shirts. Hey, save the t-shirts for those of us paying the seat licenses! We love UD. At least we're keeping this thing financially afloat.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[ud69]

Student attendance was pathetic.

[rollo]

Incase the AD and President aren't aware, student attendance is a function of 3 things:

1. How the team plays.
2. Who the team plays.
3. Who the team is...individually.

Addressing each:

1. Team play, at home, stinks...= less interest
2. Who we play at home stinks...= less interest
3. According to my students...and I teach >60 (only 1 student has gone to 1 game this season) a good chunk of the basketball team has made a bad name for the rest of them around campus (bars/ghetto). And if the students don't like the players as people and/or classmates, they really have no reason to attend. A class or two in Public Relations might be in order.

	Ghetto UD GHETTO Student neighborhood surrounding the campus of the University of Dayton. Unique to UD, the Ghetto gets its name from the nickname students gave the depression and war-period row houses the university owns and rents to Dayton students during their course of study. The landlord arrangement and compact nature of the neighborhood homes create a camaraderie among students outside of class that provides personal space away from classrooms and on-campus dorms. Parties and celebrations on Ghetto streets are legendary and have made David Letterman's Top-10 List. A significant effort has been made in recent years to curb hooliganism and renovate older homes.

[UACFlyer]

Poor student attendance at both BB and FB games is an issue throughtout the country, including schools that are the very tops in performance, Bama, Duke, etc.

This is not a UD issue,...it's a national issue.

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by rollo a good chunk of the basketball team has made a bad name for the rest of them around campus (bars/ghetto). And if the students don't like the players as people and/or classmates, they really have no reason to attend. A class or two in Public Relations might be in order.

This really, really, concerns me. I understand the need for young college students to release some energy and have some fun, but there are limits, especially when you represent the university in a way that the UD men's basketball team does.

Character is everything when you don the Flyer uniform. Archie needs to get a grip on this and hold his players accountable if they are doing things to give the program an ugly image.

It's even difficult for a lifelong Flyer fan as myself to embrace this team when I hear things like this.

[Odrab14]

Somebody told me that tickets for the students is based on merit/attendance at other UD events. IE: The more "other" events you attend the higher you are on priority for seating/ lower seats. Not sure of the validity of this

I get trying to encourage students to attend other events but when you student section is bare there are other issues which need attention

[mook]

I'm just saying if they don't want their nice seats cheap, I'm sure plenty of other people would.

[Viperstick]

What the hell else do students have to do at 7PM on a Wednesday night? Get your butts to the Arena!

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Viperstick What the hell else do students have to do at 7PM on a Wednesday night? Get your butts to the Arena!

That's the problem! In 1984 I had nothing else to do and went to cheer for student-athletes I was friends with...

In 2014 Students have Xbox/PS4, RecPlex and an incredible amount of team/group/club sports activities/practices with their friends.

Unlike last century UD has done a great job of giving students any number of choices of what to do on any given night that doesn't involve alcohol...and they are flocking to them.

I don't see the student attendance problem being fixed any time soon simply because to the majority of students, supporting the men's basketball isn't a priority....and that's not an opinion of mine...it's what I'm being told by my students

[Windy City Flyer]

The XU effect


The lack of interest is because we don't play schools in which the students identify. UD is made-up of students primarily from OH, IL, PA (mostly PITT), IN, KY, MI, & MO. In fact's it's around 91% There's some population from NY and NJ that make-up the student mix

We're playing primarily east coast schools - GMU, URI, Richmond, UMASS, GW, Fordham, VCU, LaSalle, St Joe, . Our student base is considering schools like Marquette, ND, Mich St, OSU, Xavier, UC, UK, SLU, 'Nova, Miami, OU, BGSU, Pitt, IU, UM, ... you get the point.

We have to figure out a way to start playing non-conference games against schools that keep the students engaged. I know it's hard but the reality is the A10 schedule is not that exciting for the student base. This means unless the the team is the top 25 our students are not paying attention.

On a side note, I have friends that no longer haze me about being beat by X. I miss the chatter.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[jumpin' joe]

The closest thing we had to a rivalry game this year was the VCU game. The students showed up for that game, but the team didn't. Getting them back ain't going to happen this year and who knows about the future. Winning would certainly help.
I understand that it's a national trend, but I think we are falling off the charts big time if doing a regression analysis. Rollo's reasons are very valid. I would also say it's compounded by the "new" students that come to UD now. So many more international and out-of-state students than ever before. Don't think any of those students came to UD because of our basketball team.

[flyerfanatic86]

I used to think the spirit points were the problem. Everybody hated them when I was in school because everybody wanted the good seats. We had similar opportunities then that students have now (recplex, video games, parties, clubs, etc.). Students still turned out. I don't know what the problem is, but the red scare leadership should be embarassed to see what it's become.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by jumpin' joe Don't think any of those students came to UD because of our basketball team.

A first for me...quoting myself.
Anyway, I need to clarify that I believe about 12 current students came to UD because of our basketball team.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 I used to think the spirit points were the problem. Everybody hated them when I was in school because everybody wanted the good seats. We had similar opportunities then that students have now (recplex, video games, parties, clubs, etc.). Students still turned out. I don't know what the problem is, but the red scare leadership should be embarassed to see what it's become.

Who needs a point system when a student can show up at game time and still get a 100 level seat? It is an embarrassment. Let's change the name to Red Scarce.

[KYFlyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick What the hell else do students have to do at 7PM on a Wednesday night?

Um go to class? Mine has a lab from 6-9 on Wednesdays.

Also, I have been told that the process to get tickets is not exactly straight forward and is not just game to game as it was in the past.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by jumpin' joe The closest thing we had to a rivalry game this year was the VCU game. The students showed up for that game, but the team didn't. Getting them back ain't going to happen this year and who knows about the future. Winning would certainly help. I understand that it's a national trend, but I think we are falling off the charts big time if doing a regression analysis. Rollo's reasons are very valid. I would also say it's compounded by the "new" students that come to UD now. So many more international and out-of-state students than ever before. Don't think any of those students came to UD because of our basketball team.

This is definitely a big part of it. I graduated from UD in 2010. In my 4 years at UD there was a MAJOR difference between the type of students that were being admitted. Over the last few years (for lack of a better term) the students have got more and more nerdy and caring less about UD athletics. Also, as mentioned, there is a increasing number of international students. This isn't the UD many of you know where you get trashed and stumble into UD Arena. Honestly, other than St. Patricks Day, the Ghetto was getting boring my last year or so. Yes, there were still parties, but not like how it used to be.

As Rollo mentioned, club and intramural sports have really exploded and at UD and at many colleges, Wednesday night is a big club and intramural sports. night. I know many friends that their priority was their club or intramural teams and not UD hoops.

Finally, a big problem for attendance is many of the games are on TV. Students would rather hangout and watch the game in HD then go to the Arena. If I didn't have to work all the games when I was in school I know I would have taken advantage of watching the games at the house in the Ghetto.

	Ghetto UD GHETTO Student neighborhood surrounding the campus of the University of Dayton. Unique to UD, the Ghetto gets its name from the nickname students gave the depression and war-period row houses the university owns and rents to Dayton students during their course of study. The landlord arrangement and compact nature of the neighborhood homes create a camaraderie among students outside of class that provides personal space away from classrooms and on-campus dorms. Parties and celebrations on Ghetto streets are legendary and have made David Letterman's Top-10 List. A significant effort has been made in recent years to curb hooliganism and renovate older homes.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by rollo Incase the AD and President aren't aware, student attendance is a function of 3 things: 1. How the team plays. 2. Who the team plays. 3. Who the team is...individually. Addressing each: 1. Team play, at home, stinks...= less interest 2. Who we play at home stinks...= less interest 3. According to my students...and I teach >60 (only 1 student has gone to 1 game this season) a good chunk of the basketball team has made a bad name for the rest of them around campus (bars/ghetto). And if the students don't like the players as people and/or classmates, they really have no reason to attend. A class or two in Public Relations might be in order.

I find it amusing that you are one of the first to bash posters who try to bring up reasons why UD's bball program is not exceeding our expectations and tell everyone to quit making excuses.

All of your reasons for low student attendance could be viewed as excuses as well...

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Finally, a big problem for attendance is many of the games are on TV. Students would rather hangout and watch the game in HD then go to the Arena. If I didn't have to work all the games when I was in school I know I would have taken advantage of watching the games at the house in the Ghetto.

Hmmm...Just thinking about our next home game with that lovely 9:10pm start on a week night. Don't think we'll be seeing too many little kids on the smile cam for that game.

[Gem City]

Like everything else about UD basketball, it's the same old issues every year and yet nothing ever seems to change. I'm so tired of hearing all the excuses why student don't go to games. I truly do not care. Either the students need to get to games or UD needs to sell the seats to people that do want to go to games. That's it. It's just that easy, so just fix it already.

I do know that UD has had far worse teams back in the 90's and yet I don't remember ever seeing the entire 200 section of the student section completely empty. There are about 5,000 fans in the upper arena that would love to move down.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by KYFlyer Also, I have been told that the process to get tickets is not exactly straight forward and is not just game to game as it was in the past.

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!

[rollo]

Originally Posted by rollo Incase the AD and President aren't aware, student attendance is a function of 3 things: 1. How the team plays. 2. Who the team plays. 3. Who the team is...individually. Addressing each: 1. Team play, at home, stinks...= less interest 2. Who we play at home stinks...= less interest 3. According to my students...and I teach >60 (only 1 student has gone to 1 game this season) a good chunk of the basketball team has made a bad name for the rest of them around campus (bars/ghetto). And if the students don't like the players as people and/or classmates, they really have no reason to attend. A class or two in Public Relations might be in order.

Originally Posted by springborofan I find it amusing that you are one of the first to bash posters who try to bring up reasons why UD's bball program is not exceeding our expectations and tell everyone to quit making excuses. All of your reasons for low student attendance could be viewed as excuses as well...

Are you trying to say that you'd support an underachieving team of womanizing, druggies playing a poor schedule?

I put in writing what my students tell me and you think I'm making excuses? Facts, to me, aren't excuses. And I hope Wabler sees things as I do...and does something about it. Why?

Because once I start liking the team (their schedule and their play) again, I'll consider attending games. And if you've been paying attention to me the past year, you know that's not an excuse.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[UD62]

I have no problem if the students have other interests than the Flyers. My problem with the situation is the holding of prime seats for the non-existent student fan. The world has changed since my time when the fieldhouse was packed, and that's ok. just recognize that fact and adjust the student section to the new reality. The troubling side of the student apathy is the long term effect on overall fan support in general. From that standpoint any efforts to improve student participation, regardless of how effective they are, is worth the effort. stronger OOC home schedule, better in conference performance, conference affiliation, team association with the student body in general. Should the competition side of those efforts occur, overall fan support will increase and should the students still not respond, fill the seats with paying fans.

[Gem City]

On the positive side, we don't have to be lectured to anymore by random students about all the "townies" that sit on their hands all game. Remember when we had to read the annual complaints about the students not having the seats at center court like the Cameron Crazies?

Hey, I really could give a rats @ss why students don't go. Let them go play intermural broom ball or video games or whatever their doing... I don't care! There are plenty of Dayton families that would love those seats and they're willing to pay good money for those seats.

[UACFlyer]

...quityer*****in!

There were well over 100 Div 1 games last night. How many do you think drew 12,000+ fans?

UD has nothing whatsoever to complain about.

[Beatty Town Coach]

A national trend perhaps, but that takes into account 345 DI schools; analysis pertaining to those schools typically in the NCAA from any of the top ten conferences will yield a result that does not show the same epic failure as that of the UD Student/Red Scare Sections...not even close. Michigan state has no problem with it; Duke has no problem with it; and "we" can go on and on.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by rollo Incase the AD and President aren't aware, student attendance is a function of 3 things: 1. How the team plays. 2. Who the team plays. 3. Who the team is...individually. Addressing each: 1. Team play, at home, stinks...= less interest 2. Who we play at home stinks...= less interest 3. According to my students...and I teach >60 (only 1 student has gone to 1 game this season) a good chunk of the basketball team has made a bad name for the rest of them around campus (bars/ghetto). And if the students don't like the players as people and/or classmates, they really have no reason to attend. A class or two in Public Relations might be in order.

I'd weigh the above 3 "facts" (interesting how these are referred to as facts because they come out of the mouth of an 18-21 yr old...whatever) heavily on #1 and #2 above, in that order. And I'm speaking factually as a parent of a current student who is and always has been (parents both alums) a Flyer follower...and a random sample of his floor-mates in his dorm. If this team had continued their Maui play into the conference schedule they'd be in full throat for a game vs Fordham (just an example of a cellar dwellar, don't be hatin', I realize they don't play Fordham @ home this year). But after watching the Flyers' peeing down their leg vs USC (xmas break) and the perceived lack of effort during other home games, they move on to other priorities and, believe it or not, studying is one of them. Bottom line: they'll make the time (and effort via the Rubik's cube that obtaining tickets has become). I'll chalk up #3 at Rollo speaking :0

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach A national trend perhaps, but that takes into account 345 DI schools; analysis pertaining to those schools typically in the NCAA from any of the top ten conferences will yield a result that does not show the same epic failure as that of the UD Student/Red Scare Sections...not even close. Michigan state has no problem with it; Duke has no problem with it; and "we" can go on and on.

We are not Michigan St or Duke. We do not have multiple national titles and a top10 team every year. Your comparison is apple to oranges. With that said...I have read Duke is having less attendance at games this year and it is one of the easier years in a long time to get tickets.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach A national trend perhaps, but that takes into account 345 DI schools; analysis pertaining to those schools typically in the NCAA from any of the top ten conferences will yield a result that does not show the same epic failure as that of the UD Student/Red Scare Sections...not even close. Michigan state has no problem with it; Duke has no problem with it; and "we" can go on and on.

Didn't see a whole lot of students at the Nova-DePaul game last night.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Radar I'd weigh the above 3 "facts" (interesting how these are referred to as facts because they come out of the mouth of an 18-21 yr old...whatever) heavily on #1 and #2 above, in that order. And I'm speaking factually as a parent of a current student who is and always has been (parents both alums) a Flyer follower...and a random sample of his floor-mates in his dorm. If this team had continued their Maui play into the conference schedule they'd be in full throat for a game vs Fordham (just an example of a cellar dwellar, don't be hatin', I realize they don't play Fordham @ home this year). But after watching the Flyers' peeing down their leg vs USC (xmas break) and the perceived lack of effort during other home games, they move on to other priorities and, believe it or not, studying is one of them. Bottom line: they'll make the time (and effort via the Rubik's cube that obtaining tickets has become). I'll chalk up #3 at Rollo speaking :0

So what comes out of the mouths of my students (who I have no direct influence over regarding social lives) is irrelevant but what comes out of the mouths of your child (who you raised to be a UD fan) is factual?

Considering my students and your child/friends are saying and essentially doing the same thing, I find your comment attacking me to be...ummmm...interesting.

[UDDoug]

Duke - maybe not at the same level.

But they've cut their student ticket allotment by about 25% over the past several years. So has Kentucky.

They didn't do that because the students were using the tickets.

[ud99]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Duke - maybe not at the same level. But they've cut their student ticket allotment by about 25% over the past several years. So has Kentucky. They didn't do that because the students were using the tickets.

And like Duke and Kentucky there will be fans who would love to get those seats and they have at both of those schools.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by jumpin' joe Hmmm...Just thinking about our next home game with that lovely 9:10pm start on a week night. Don't think we'll be seeing too many little kids on the smile cam for that game.

Don't worry. Red Scare will advise them all to brush their teeth and come to the game in their jammies. That way they can get to bed quickly after the game.

	Red Scare RED SCARE University of Dayton student fan club, the largest student organization on campus. Run by students for students. Active members show their school spirit by attending Flyer athletic events to earn Spirit Points. Students who accumulate the most points receive priority for men's basketball tickets. The Red Scare enthusiasm has helped make home games for all UD Tier-1 sports intimidating for opponents.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach .... Duke has no problem with it; and "we" can go on and on.

Duke has a problem and has reduced the size of its student section significantly. Alabama football has a problem while winning national championships.

Right now student interest in college FB and BB is diminishing coast to coast.

[UDBrian]

I have a couple of theories which probably aren't that good LOL

1) The percentage of students attending UD who are from this area has decreased substantially. If you grew up a Syracuse fan, Kentucky fan, Clemson fan etc you might have have the same interest in UD basketball because it isn't your first love

2) People seem to get lazier by the day. It is pretty easy (and warm) to sit in a chair with a remote compared to walking over to UD arena. And A LOT of students do walk, almost offered a ride to six women one day but wasn't sure we could fit them all into the car.

3) Agree with the comments that you need to win at home and it also helps to play some good teams. Attendance at vball dropped a lot this season

[shapanud]

This article was posted a few months ago when this discussion came up (as it always does) but is worth reading again.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...97223907738780

32% of Alabama student tickets went unused from 2009-2012. It is not a UD only problem. It is a national trend.

[Bat'71]

Well, all I can say is that the lack of student attendance is disturbing. The void left by the no-shows was startling (plus the fact that our cheerleaders weren't in their usual uniforms)...to the point my wife and I wondered if UD had moved up the date for Spring Break. If the kids don't want to go for one reason or another, so be it, but the seats should not go to waste. If there is a problem with student ticket distribution such that kids that want to attend can't, while the seats go empty, that should be rectified a.s.a.p. Unfortunately, what so often happens is that institutionalized inertia takes over and nothing gets done, but this needs to change.

In cases like last night's game where the kids are basically a no-show, the ushers at the Arena should be directed at the first TV time out to offer those seats to fans in the upper Arena. There is no excuse to let prime seating to go to waste when there are true fans in the nose bleed section that would love to sit there. If students straggle in late, they can be directed to the newly vacated seats in the upper levels...if you snooze you lose.

[Beatty Town Coach]

UD Basketball...a litany of excuses and nonsense. Having a few less students at games is one thing, but in this case it is in fact epic failure...but the "there is nothing wrong this program" excuse makers rule they day, over and over and over again.

I am sorry, you guys are so very right, the Student section is completely full, the lower bowl doesn't have noticeable open areas, and both the 300 and 400 levels are packed to the rafters. What was I FFFFFiiiiinnnnnngggg thinking!

Well eagle you are right it is apples to oranges, unfortunately, and many of you don't mind that truth it all, you apparently love it to death. Only in the UD case its more like apples to peanuts. Worse yet, the administration seemingly doesn't care. Oh yeah, I know they say they do, but actions speak much louder than words. Epic Failure!!!!!!! Again and Again and Again!

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach UD Basketball...a litany of excuses and nonsense. Having a few less students at games is one thing, but in this case it is in fact epic failure...but the "there is nothing wrong this program" excuse makers rule they day, over and over and over again. I am sorry, you guys are so very right, the Student section is completely full, the lower bowl doesn't have noticeable open areas, and both the 300 and 400 levels are packed to the rafters. What was I FFFFFiiiiinnnnnngggg thinking! Well eagle you are right it is apples to oranges, unfortunately, and many of you don't mind that truth it all, you apparently love it to death. Only in the UD case its more like apples to peanuts. Worse yet, the administration seemingly doesn't care. Oh yeah, I know they say they do, but actions speak much louder than words. Epic Failure!!!!!!! Again and Again and Again!

Attendance was reported at 12,000++......of course, not all purchased seats are used. That's understandable. I wasn't there. For those that were, what is your estimate of the number of people actually at the Arena?......10,000?....11,000?....what?

[mook]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 Well, all I can say is that the lack of student attendance is disturbing. The void left by the no-shows was startling (plus the fact that our cheerleaders weren't in their usual uniforms)...to the point my wife and I wondered if UD had moved up the date for Spring Break. If the kids don't want to go for one reason or another, so be it, but the seats should not go to waste. If there is a problem with student ticket distribution such that kids that want to attend can't, while the seats go empty, that should be rectified a.s.a.p. Unfortunately, what so often happens is that institutionalized inertia takes over and nothing gets done, but this needs to change. In cases like last night's game where the kids are basically a no-show, the ushers at the Arena should be directed at the first TV time out to offer those seats to fans in the upper Arena. There is no excuse to let prime seating to go to waste when there are true fans in the nose bleed section that would love to sit there. If students straggle in late, they can be directed to the newly vacated seats in the upper levels...if you snooze you lose.

I also think they know in advance whether or not the student ticket have been claimed etc and should offer season ticket holders elsewhere the ability to "upgrade" their tickets for the game. This would work over breaks too. I'd love to sit in the 200's sadly my financials don't allow me to. That being said I would pay an upcharge of $10-$20 to move down for a game. I'd guess I'm not the only one either. Then the ticket office could have my seats back for resale. If they don't get sold they still get additional revenue from seats that would have otherwise been empty. I know this could be difficult to do in season when students but this could for sure happen on games over breaks. Plus before I was a season ticket holder I bought from the student allotment when it was released to the public.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Between 9k and 10k, I would guestimate around 9,500 give or take 500 folks. But, hey that was after a three game winning streak, so just imagine if we would have dropped one or two of the previous three. And now, we have a situation where the next home game could lead to something very big, but I doubt the crowd size increases anything worth noting. It is not really matter of how many other schools are bringing in, I don't care what they do in terms of negative numbers on their part, I only know that when a 13,500 seat arena has 3k-4k empty seats, it begins take a new (in this case lesser included) dimension and persona.

[mook]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Attendance was reported at 12,000++......of course, not all purchased seats are used. That's understandable. I wasn't there. For those that were, what is your estimate of the number of people actually at the Arena?......10,000?....11,000?....what?

I'd say 10+. They could probably help the upper arena fill up by simply coming up with a better solution than the current shuttle system. It took me an additonal 30 minutes at least to even get to my car. Not to mention barely making it to the game in time.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Attendance was reported at 12,000++......of course, not all purchased seats are used. That's understandable. I wasn't there. For those that were, what is your estimate of the number of people actually at the Arena?......10,000?....11,000?....what?

There were no more than 9k in the house.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by rollo So what comes out of the mouths of my students (who I have no direct influence over regarding social lives) is irrelevant but what comes out of the mouths of your child (who you raised to be a UD fan) is factual? Considering my students and your child/friends are saying and essentially doing the same thing, I find your comment attacking me to be...ummmm...interesting.

Attack?

That explains your avatar!

[jumpin' joe]

Not many years ago, the Athletic Department held four 100 level sections, four 200 level sections, two 300 level sections, and two 400 level sections for UD students which amounted to close to a 2,500 student ticket allotment. It's now down to two 100 level sections and two 200 level sections or about an 800 student ticket allotment (despite record undergraduate enrollment). Last night, if you take out the pep band, there were less than 200 students attending. Sure dwindling student attendance is a national trend, but it has to be more than just a trend here at UD. Yes, it truly is an EPIC FAIL.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Radar Attack? That explains your avatar!

Sometimes my muscles take over my brain...

[Bat'71]

Mook, IMHO there should be no need for an "up-charge" or anything else in filling the student section with fans from the upper reaches of the Arena. Those student section tickets have been paid for by student "fees", so there is no need to charge anybody who's already in the Arena. IMHO, to let those premium seats remain unfilled during a game while others are straining to see the action on the court form the nose bleed section is an absolute waste and borders on mismanagement. It costs nothing for UD to do the right thing in this instance, shows those fans in the upper reaches of the Arena they are appreciated and helps increase the decibel count on the Arena floor.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

If the students don't feel the seats, they should be open to anyone with a ticket stub from the 300 or 400 level. They should give the students a grace period after the tip, but after a set time people can (and should) move down. If the student with that seat shows up, the poacher can simply go back up to their seats. Not allowing fans to take the seats is the same bs policy the Reds had at Riverfront. It was a terrible policy, and they changed it. Flyers administration...change the policy.

[Jay O'Leary]

I attended the Duquesne-Richmond game last night. Total attendance was around 1000. The Pitt-Syracuse game was national TV last night so some students stayed home for that but I have never seen more than 40-50 students there. They do draw around 100 students for games at Consol Arena (3 games a year). The largest total attendance was against Pitt last year and it may have been 300. Last night they had 150+ students arrive just before halftime, wearing their warm-ups representing multiple Duquesne sports, to be honored for academic achievement. They left immediately after the recognition and none stayed for the game. These are fellow athletes! If they won't support each other, why would you expect the students to support each team?

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Beatty Town Coach]

If UD has to be compared to, and the standard UD has, is one akin to Duquesne, then I think I am on the verge of giving-up. Duquesne????????? Come on!!!

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Radar I'd weigh the above 3 "facts" (interesting how these are referred to as facts because they come out of the mouth of an 18-21 yr old...whatever) heavily on #1 and #2 above, in that order.

There is a reason that UD Men's Basketball players aren't selected for peer awards at the annual athletic awards banquet...those awards go to other athletes...precisely because of the reputation of some players.


And if a member of the Red Not-Scary reads this...and the band...end it with the USA chant. It is really ignorant and you have two players on your team from another country. It makes you sound like asshats.

[Beatty Town Coach]

I thought that same thing Shocka concerning the USA chant. Kind of odd when Pierre was the guy boxing out the Rhody foreign foul shooter.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by rollo Incase the AD and President aren't aware, student attendance is a function of 3 things: 1. How the team plays. 2. Who the team plays. 3. Who the team is...individually. Addressing each: 1. Team play, at home, stinks...= less interest 2. Who we play at home stinks...= less interest 3. According to my students...and I teach >60 (only 1 student has gone to 1 game this season) a good chunk of the basketball team has made a bad name for the rest of them around campus (bars/ghetto). And if the students don't like the players as people and/or classmates, they really have no reason to attend. A class or two in Public Relations might be in order.

When I was a student, I found that UD games were competing with ghetto parties too, especially for Saturday games. I think that the Arena being so far away from the dorms played a role. If the Arena was a quick walk, I can see a lot more students finding their way there without having to do much planning.

	Ghetto UD GHETTO Student neighborhood surrounding the campus of the University of Dayton. Unique to UD, the Ghetto gets its name from the nickname students gave the depression and war-period row houses the university owns and rents to Dayton students during their course of study. The landlord arrangement and compact nature of the neighborhood homes create a camaraderie among students outside of class that provides personal space away from classrooms and on-campus dorms. Parties and celebrations on Ghetto streets are legendary and have made David Letterman's Top-10 List. A significant effort has been made in recent years to curb hooliganism and renovate older homes.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Well eagle you are right it is apples to oranges, unfortunately, and many of you don't mind that truth it all, you apparently love it to death. Only in the UD case its more like apples to peanuts. Worse yet, the administration seemingly doesn't care. Oh yeah, I know they say they do, but actions speak much louder than words. Epic Failure!!!!!!! Again and Again and Again!

Don't put words in my mouth BTC. I would love UD to be national title contenders year in and year out. But if you think that is what we should expect from UD then you should probably go root for another team. Maybe some day, but that's not in the near future. But that does not mean I do not expect them to be in the NCAA 3 times out of 5 years. This is obviously the ticket managers fault!

[mook]

Not disagreeing at all, but considering how generating revenue is a goal of the games it's worth a test. It could be an extra $5,000 dollars if they just moved 500 people around. Looking at the student section last night, I bet it could have been done. I bet a lot of the work could be done via the ticketmaster logins too.

[jumpin' joe]

Not that I'm advocating an on-campus facility, but I've seen more students at some volleyball and soccer matches than I have at many of UD Men's basketball games.

[UDDoug]

Pointing out that it's a nationwide problem is nothing like saying everything is fine.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Since it has been a few weeks since I had a chance to ***** about this, maybe the students did not have a parking pass and said screw it I am not riding the bus so I will stay home and watch on TV, plus I can enjoy a beverage and affordable food during the game.

Seriously, hundreds of excellent seats empty again and as many or more students attending on campus soccer and volleyball games.

UD has taken too many things for granted when it comes to game day operations and getting butts in the seats for both men and women. Times are changing, money is tight for many people, and your old school fans who built the arena are sadly slowly dying off. You need to look outside the box and be more fan friendly.

Of course putting a better product on the floor against better competition would help as well.

The better (perceived) competition was my biggest reason for wanting in the Big East, and is my biggest fear if the Big East does expand by taking A-10 members and excluding UD. Yes this year a UMass or GW is a better opponent than a Butler or dare I say even a Marquette or Depaul? But who does the average UD ticket buying fan perceive as the more marquee game for our Flyers?

Rant over, have a good night Flyer Nation!

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[Buster Goode]

Sell half their section's tickets to the general public, the student support sucks

[cj]

This topic is as old as UD versus Wright State.

[tirebiter]

Maybe they should sell a "student-standby" ticket which would allow the ticket holder to be a "student" if there are seats available after the first media timeout.

Also, how about some continuous student buses and vans before and after (and even during) games - like one every five minutes. Take away the argument that it's too inconvenient. Include a voucher for a free hot dog and soda.

Think outside the box. How important is it to the administration to show a full house/no empty seats within camera range?

[UACFlyer]

....refer to the new thread (which should have been here)...SEC asks ESPN for help....

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Pointing out that it's a nationwide problem is nothing like saying everything is fine.

No, but that's exactly how it was being utilized in this instance. Nothing But! So yes, that is the suggestion in this case.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Don't put words in my mouth BTC. I would love UD to be national title contenders year in and year out. But if you think that is what we should expect from UD then you should probably go root for another team. Maybe some day, but that's not in the near future. But that does not mean I do not expect them to be in the NCAA 3 times out of 5 years. This is obviously the ticket managers fault!

Oh No, Their Not Responsible for Job performance, as there are zero expectations around here. We can't associate performance, success, the lack-there-of, or actual numbers, to the performance of the University Staff/Employees. Absolutely Not! Social Projects don't measure things, or keep track of, facts, truth, or reality. At UD we just pretend like it isn't really happening...more convenient that way. Why get your head out of the sand, when you can just keep it in there. What a "Clown" I am. Beatty the Bozo! As opposed to folks running pre-game intros, the music, the parking, the student section, the remote lot busing, the basketball program, oops I digress on that last one...silly Bozo Beatty...if only I could be as efficient in my life as the UD men's hoop program, the UD marketing, and yes the incredible ticket sales. Wow man, out of sight!

[UD Sam]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 IMHO, to let those premium seats remain unfilled during a game while others are straining to see the action on the court form the nose bleed section is an absolute waste and borders on mismanagement. It costs nothing for UD to do the right thing in this instance, shows those fans in the upper reaches of the Arena they are appreciated and helps increase the decibel count on the Arena floor.

I agree. I was unable to go to the game and watched it on my computer. The half empty student section gave the impression that many fans with tickets didn't attend the game. It really stood out because the seats behind the baskets are the most frequently shown on TV.

I believe it was last year that some 400 level ticket holders were allowed to sit in the student section when there was low student attendance. I can't understand why UD chose to leave these seats empty. It makes no sense.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by rollo Are you trying to say that you'd support an underachieving team of womanizing, druggies playing a poor schedule? I put in writing what my students tell me and you think I'm making excuses? Facts, to me, aren't excuses. And I hope Wabler sees things as I do...and does something about it. Why? .

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? In no way did I say anything close to what you inferred from my initial post.

Lastly, while it is a FACT that a student(s) told you their reasons for not going to games, the three items you referenced are not FACTS, it is their collective OPINION. You could be the POTUS with your twists between opinion and fact...

My ONLY point initially was that what one considers reasons, others may view as excuses.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by springborofan You could be the POTUS...

Please don't give rollo any ideas......

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach No, but that's exactly how it was being utilized in this instance. Nothing But! So yes, that is the suggestion in this case.

I posted it (at least on one occassion), and I meant nothing of the sort.

Student attendance is a problem nearly everyhwere and has been declining for years. UD has a bigger student attendance problem than many top 50 programs.

Nationwide general attendance has been declining. UD is pretty much on par with ticket sales to the general public and unused seats.

[Glen Clark]

And another thread on UD Pride devolves into hissy-fits (with all the usual suspects) . . .

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=1

___________________
You have got to buck up, man. You cannot drag this negative energy into the tournament!
Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Originally Posted by tirebiter Also, how about some continuous student buses and vans before and after (and even during) games - like one every five minutes. Take away the argument that it's too inconvenient. Include a voucher for a free hot dog and soda.

I agree this would be a good idea except you would need about 50 buses as they would be stuck on Stewart Street 5 minutes apart due to the inability of traffic control personnel to keep traffic moving on the busiest streets and into the parking lot. What are we up to now, game 16? People still don't know what lanes to get in and police still can't keep traffic moving. We left Cassano's on Brown St at about 6:25pm. We parked in C lot. We walked briskly into the Arena as the URI players were being introduced. Multiple times I witnessed huge gaps in traffic while sitting through light cycles. Not to be rude, but if someone is driving away from UD Arena less than 30 minutes before game time, they are just going to have to wait because there are far more people driving to UD Arena and backing up traffic to nearly Brown St.
(Off topic Traffic Rant complete)

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Oh No, Their Not Responsible for Job performance, as there are zero expectations around here. We can't associate performance, success, the lack-there-of, or actual numbers, to the performance of the University Staff/Employees. Absolutely Not! Social Projects don't measure things, or keep track of, facts, truth, or reality. At UD we just pretend like it isn't really happening...more convenient that way. Why get your head out of the sand, when you can just keep it in there. What a "Clown" I am. Beatty the Bozo! As opposed to folks running pre-game intros, the music, the parking, the student section, the remote lot busing, the basketball program, oops I digress on that last one...silly Bozo Beatty...if only I could be as efficient in my life as the UD men's hoop program, the UD marketing, and yes the incredible ticket sales. Wow man, out of sight!

Tell me coach, is there anything about the University and men's BB program that you actually do like?

[Beatty Town Coach]

Getting more difficult to find it. Much more difficult! I don't like the idea that a future fan-base is not being cultivated. Don't like finishing in spots 7-12 every year and backing our way in to our own conference tournament...that's not good. I don't like being known for supporting and hosting NCAA games while watching every school but our own play in it. I don't like having to go on the road as one of top seeds in the NIT and lose game first round because those of who support the social program have stay back home and watch other teams play in the NCAA in our arena no less...that's not good. I could make this 55 pages long with these kinds "not happy with" statements; but I won't.

I like going to the games, I just don't like "Epic Failure". I know I know, let this season play out first, then if that's not good, then do what we are always encouraged to do, and that is wait till next year. The only problem with that notion is, that around here, "next year" typically becomes a bigger problem than the last. Inherently "next year" is one of the biggest problems this program faces.

I like third place finishes in Maui, and Orlando Championships, but they mean very little if constantly followed by "Epic Failure" in every other phase of the program. For goodness sakes, an above poster went all "Duquesne Comparisson" on me. I am sorry, but I don't ever want to be equally compared to Duquesne basketball, unless Duquesne starts making regular post-season appearances and finishes in the top 3-6 teams of conference play. Call me a jerk, but call me a reasonable jerk while you are doing it. Again, I really liked Ted Kissell, but I am constantly hearing his comments at the breakfast in Atlantic City when he said, "If Saint Joes is doing more with less, so be-it". Well, okay, I have no problem with Saint Joes, Richmond, or A10 school accomplishing great things with less; but the comment was far too much of a cover-up for UD has done so Freaking Less with More! Again I ask, how can any administrator feel good about that statement or mentality? I know I don't, not this ticket holder; and I know that thousands of UD fans are with me on that, at least they better be, or the short and long-term fallout will lead to even bigger "Epic Failure." You have to cultivate fans, regardless of what other schools have problems with.

I like four game winning streaks, but four game winning streaks that follow four game losing streaks, don't mean much unless you turn the winning steak in to a 6 or 7 game streak.

I don't like losing to the Arch Rival 30 plus years running on their home court...talk about "Epic Failure." I don't like it taking a ten years and a miracle to hold of mighty Rhody for the first time in ten years. And they still split with us, which is crazy. And the next time we go there it will well over ten years since we have won a game at small time Rhode Island.

Hey you and Glenn are both right, it's posters like me that are the problem, and so by all means don't hold anybody accountable that is receiving compensation packages for this stuff...blame your clown poster instead. I mean you got guys on this board, and coming to the games, with their brown paper bag in hand...to put over their head. That about says it all!

By all means, you tell me, aside from tradition and having overly patient and committed fans, what are the signs of the great success?? Our invitation to the Big East? A conference we shouldn't be, and need not be, worried about being in anyway. Who cares about the stupid Big East, nobody cares about them anyway. Just learn how not to be an "Epic Failure in the Atlantic Ten, by accomplishing something consistent with the comparative advantage resources that we have.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Radar]

I defy any member of our local media, who are quick to jump on a negative story involving UD in general (see St Paddy's Day 2013), to ask TW or DC if they are attentive to any of the perceived problems surrounding this program.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach Getting more difficult to find it. Much more difficult! I don't like the idea that a future fan-base is not being cultivated. Don't like finishing in spots 7-12 every year and backing our way in to our own conference tournament...that's not good. I don't like being known for supporting and hosting NCAA games while watching every school but our own play in it. I don't like having to go on the road as one of top seeds in the NIT and lose game first round because those of who support the social program have stay back home and watch other teams play in the NCAA in our arena no less...that's not good. I could make this 55 pages long with these kinds "not happy with" statements; but I won't. I like going to the games, I just don't like "Epic Failure". I know I know, let this season play out first, then if that's not good, then do what we are always encouraged to do, and that is wait till next year. The only problem with that notion is, that around here, "next year" typically becomes a bigger problem than the last. Inherently "next year" is one of the biggest problems this program faces. I like third place finishes in Maui, and Orlando Championships, but they mean very little if constantly followed by "Epic Failure" in every other phase of the program. For goodness sakes, an above poster went all "Duquesne Comparisson" on me. I am sorry, but I don't ever want to be equally compared to Duquesne basketball, unless Duquesne starts making regular post-season appearances and finishes in the top 3-6 teams of conference play. Call me a jerk, but call me a reasonable jerk while you are doing it. Again, I really liked Ted Kissell, but I am constantly hearing his comments at the breakfast in Atlantic City when he said, "If Saint Joes is doing more with less, so be-it". Well, okay, I have no problem with Saint Joes, Richmond, or A10 school accomplishing great things with less; but the comment was far too much of a cover-up for UD has done so Freaking Less with More! Again I ask, how can any administrator feel good about that statement or mentality? I know I don't, not this ticket holder; and I know that thousands of UD fans are with me on that, at least they better be, or the short and long-term fallout will lead to even bigger "Epic Failure." You have to cultivate fans, regardless of what other schools have problems with. I like four game winning streaks, but four game winning streaks that follow four game losing streaks, don't mean much unless you turn the winning steak in to a 6 or 7 game streak. I don't like losing to the Arch Rival 30 plus years running on their home court...talk about "Epic Failure." I don't like it taking a ten years and a miracle to hold of mighty Rhody for the first time in ten years. And they still split with us, which is crazy. And the next time we go there it will well over ten years since we have won a game at small time Rhode Island. Hey you and Glenn are both right, it's posters like me that are the problem, and so by all means don't hold anybody accountable that is receiving compensation packages for this stuff...blame your clown poster instead. I mean you got guys on this board, and coming to the games, with their brown paper bag in hand...to put over their head. That about says it all! By all means, you tell me, aside from tradition and having overly patient and committed fans, what are the signs of the great success?? Our invitation to the Big East? A conference we shouldn't be, and need not be, worried about being in anyway. Who cares about the stupid Big East, nobody cares about them anyway. Just learn how not to be an "Epic Failure in the Atlantic Ten, by accomplishing something consistent with the comparative advantage resources that we have.

So I guess the short answer is very little? By the way, in one of your recent epistles didn't you predict we would not win another game? how's that working out for you.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[Beatty Town Coach]

I said, I could see them going winless from that point on, and I said I hope that doesn't happen, but could see it happening. I can see it happening from this point forward. Again, that doesn't mean it will, but certainly one could see UD losing four or five more games? Can you not see that? By the same token, we might win four or five? It is not a matter of it working out for me, it's not my job to make it work out.

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by rollo Are you trying to say that you'd support an underachieving team of womanizing, druggies playing a poor schedule? Because once I start liking the team (their schedule and their play) again, I'll consider attending games. And if you've been paying attention to me the past year, you know that's not an excuse.

Look we all know you hate Kavs but it is ridiculous for you to call the team "womanizing" these are 18-22 year old young men. You hate Kavs..."Get over it" .Attacking the kids as druggies is just so wrong on all levels. If you have proof give it to the police or the university.

I had hoped you had gone away last year but here you are the HIV of UD Pride. I'm sure there are many who are waiting until you attend a game, all ten of them. Your various avitars speak volumes of your ego not to be confused with your achievements. "paying attention to me"

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Look we all know you hate Kavs but it is ridiculous for you to call the team "womanizing" these are 18-22 year old young men. You hate Kavs..."Get over it" .Attacking the kids as druggies is just so wrong on all levels. If you have proof give it to the police or the university. I had hoped you had gone away last year but here you are the HIV of UD Pride. I'm sure there are many who are waiting until you attend a game, all ten of them. Your various avitars speak volumes of your ego not to be confused with your achievements. "paying attention to me"

Thank you.

___________________
You will become way less concerned with what other people think of you when you realize how seldom they do.
- David Foster Wallace

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Look we all know you hate Kavs but it is ridiculous for you to call the team "womanizing" these are 18-22 year old young men. You hate Kavs..."Get over it" .Attacking the kids as druggies is just so wrong on all levels. If you have proof give it to the police or the university. I had hoped you had gone away last year but here you are the HIV of UD Pride. I'm sure there are many who are waiting until you attend a game, all ten of them. Your various avitars speak volumes of your ego not to be confused with your achievements. "paying attention to me"

Originally Posted by Glen Clark Thank you.

You're both welcome....I appreciate your attention and the team appreciates your ignorance.

[Bat'71]

OY-VEY! Can't we all just get along fellas? Time to kiss and make up, boyz. I know that may be hard, but offer it up for Lent, after all, it's right around the corner.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic I agree this would be a good idea except you would need about 50 buses as they would be stuck on Stewart Street 5 minutes apart due to the inability of traffic control personnel to keep traffic moving on the busiest streets and into the parking lot. What are we up to now, game 16? People still don't know what lanes to get in and police still can't keep traffic moving.

The issue with the traffic is the inability for fans to learn where the hell to go. They also need to widen the aprons so 2 lanes of traffic flow into the lot without wondering if the guy coming from the other direction is going to hit you.

Solution to the bus problem you all ask....to make life easy for EVERYONE...

Run the charter buses from Mariott and campus down Harriet St. behind the Arena. Have those people walk from the end of D lot to the door. It alleviates any traffic issues, as the buses can round the corner from Harriet onto Stewart and make a loop. Right now they drop off at the main entrance and then go out the C lot entrance...screwing up the traffic flow every time they exit.

The people inconvenienced are the ones that pay for a parking pass...not the ones with front row VIP drop off that are arriving off site.

UD Admin...feel free to message me for any solutions. You all have ignored any emails through the years from people with experience with traffic logistics and flow. And they haven't just been sent by me.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 The issue with the traffic is the inability for fans to learn where the hell to go. They also need to widen the aprons so 2 lanes of traffic flow into the lot without wondering if the guy coming from the other direction is going to hit you.

It never fails, one of the 5 cars in front of us trying to get into D lot does not have a parking pass. By the time they stop traffic, educate the person that they have to do a U turn and drive to the Marriot, then the driver makes said U turn and gets back onto Edwin C, 90 seconds have been waisted and traffic is backed up to Stewart.

[mook]

Originally Posted by shocka43 The people inconvenienced are the ones that pay for a parking pass...not the ones with front row VIP drop off that are arriving off site.

The people who are dropped off there also pay for a parking pass where they have to wait in the cold to get on a bus to and from the game. Also the University will not let certain level season ticket holders buy parking passes for the lots...at least that's what's happened to me every time I've tried. Perhaps I haven't caused a big enough fuss, but the shuttling system is a mess.

[westchesterflyer]

I'm watching the URI Duq game. Pathetic crowd. Don't know where the student section is but empty seats everywhere.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by mook The people who are dropped off there also pay for a parking pass where they have to wait in the cold to get on a bus to and from the game. Also the University will not let certain level season ticket holders buy parking passes for the lots...at least that's what's happened to me every time I've tried. Perhaps I haven't caused a big enough fuss, but the shuttling system is a mess.

Mariott lot and shuttles are free.

The buses take fans and students from multiple locations.

When a small portion of fans coming to games: those on buses and those who suffer from cranial rectal inversion while driving on Ed C...cause issues for the other 10k who have paid for tickets and passes, there is a problem.

If the people that are forced to take the bus are dropped off on Harriet, the walk is no more than the reaches of D lot if they did have a pass. So the drop off is equal to a D lot pass...and it doesn't screw traffic flow for the thousands of cars that have to rely on 4 entry points to a single lot. There curb lane for all lots should NEVER come to a stop when you have a double apron to move traffic. The second lane and the NB lanes are the only ones that you have to manage. The curb lane for D and C should never be a through lane. If you want to proceed past a lot, you need to be off the curb and in the 2nd or 3rd lane.

DPD can only do so much with the timing of lights and signals if the flow is jammed up at the lots. Security guards directing traffic, when someone does stop, is not to have a conversation...it is to tell them to get moving and get moving now. Let them figure it out on their own.

I am curious to know when the last time UD did any sort of analysis on the lot and spots available. Have the security guards that don't have anything to do during the game, take counts throughout a season in order to determine availability for additional passes. I don't know if this happens, but I have seen enough open spots over the years to know that it isn't filled to the extent it could be.

[Beatty Town Coach]

Shuttle lot used to be $3, did they change that this year?

[ChampCar]

Doesn't matter why students aren't showing up - they're not, so cut their seat allocation in half - can't be very hard to find several hundred people from the upper arena that would rather sit in the 200 leve.

[ChrisSFlyer]

I actually park in Lot 'O' aka the Marriott lot. I don't mind it at all. I come from Englewood and it is much easier for me to get to and from then sitting in the arena lots waiting for people trying to decide if they want to turn left or right, start their own rows, back out into the line..... I can get out of the O lot in 2-3 turns in less time then what it would take letting Barney Fife guide me out of the Arena.

My only complaint with the lot is the timing of the buses. It's seemed as though for games that have been more crowded there are less buses then what should be running. And they do need more covering for the people that stand out there. Some of us have children and if the buses are running their offbeat times then it can get cold out there. If they got those things ironed out, man, for me it beats parking over at the Arena hands down.

My parking pass is included in my season tickets.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by ChampCar Doesn't matter why students aren't showing up - they're not, so cut their seat allocation in half - can't be very hard to find several hundred people from the upper arena that would rather sit in the 200 leve.

I agree and they should start by cutting out one of the 200 level student sections immediately (the one not behind the band). The students that do come stand, so people behind them would have to understand that or they would have to use those tarps. I don't want the students that do come to be told they have to sit.
If they can't fill 3 sections, including the band, the rest of this year, then next year both 200 levels should be sold, given to Big Brothers/ Big Sisters, etc.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan ). The students that do come stand, so people behind them would have to understand that or they would have to use those tarps. I don't want the students that do come to be told they have to sit. .

I think the tarps look super lame and minor leagueish. If they sell the 200 level tickets, print right on the tickets as well as tell people in advance that you may have to stand as you are behind the students.

[longtimefan]

The problem is you couldn't really sell seats behind the students as season tickets, charge a seat license fee, and tell the people they would have to stand the entire game. If the students aren't going to show up put the season ticket holders in Section 108 and the students in 212 and 213. The band is in 109. That probably would tick off the students but if they aren't showing up who cares. They would have had their chance to keep their seats and blew it by staying away in droves. If you are talking about selling Section 212 simply on a game by game basis it would be different.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by longtimefan The problem is you couldn't really sell seats behind the students as season tickets, charge a seat license fee, and tell the people they would have to stand the entire game. If the students aren't going to show up put the season ticket holders in Section 108 and the students in 212 and 213. The band is in 109. That probably would tick off the students but if they aren't showing up who cares. They would have had their chance to keep their seats and blew it by staying away in droves. If you are talking about selling Section 212 simply on a game by game basis it would be different.

There are some loyal student fans. I definitley don't think anything should be done to take away their seats. I rather see the adminstration work toward getting more students at the games. We need to keep a stream of nuts like all of us going.

[m21eagle45]

Why don't we worry about the season ticket holders filling their seats before we talk about taking away the student seats. There have been way more 100-200 level seats left empty for games this year as I can ever remember. You can criticize the students all you want for not showing, but many of you are pots calling the kettle black. Many of you calling for the students tickets are the ones saying you are not going to renew your tickets next year and that you have found it easy to replace the Flyers and find something better to do. I think arguing to take their tickets is a bit hypocritical when so many of you have wavered on the Flyers this year as well.

[Chris R]

The students dont have to drive 50 miles to the game, nor pay $100 to sit in the lower bowl. It should be far more difficult to find an excuse to stay home when you are a student. These are your classmates, not ours, this is your time, not ours.

Not that I excuse empty seats by ticket holders, but they have a financial stake in things with a mortgage and a bunch of trolls to feed. The students dont.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Chris R The students dont have to drive 50 miles to the game, nor pay $100 to sit in the lower bowl. It should be far more difficult to find an excuse to stay home when you are a student. These are your classmates, not ours, this is your time, not ours. Not that I excuse empty seats by ticket holders, but they have a financial stake in things with a mortgage and a bunch of trolls to feed. The students dont.

The empty seats around the arena look just as bad on TV as the small student section. It is just as bad if not worse to have those that invest hard earned money into the program not come than students not showing up. If the people who pay $100 a night for a game have no interest in coming and no faith in the team, why should the students?

Edit:

Don't get me wrong. I am more trying to play devils advocate here. I do not think it is right for the students not to come. But I feel that it is also a major problem with the trend of the season ticket holders not coming. Students not showing up is a trend everywhere. But all the empty seats of the season ticket holders is new for here. Especially with the comments from those here about finding better things to do, not renewing tickets next year, and some who have admitted just flat out forgetting UD had a game. I feel that those who said such things do not have the right to criticize the students when they in turn have no faith in the program.

[rollo]

I propose tarping the last 4 rows of the 100 level of the student section.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Why don't we worry about the season ticket holders filling their seats before we talk about taking away the student seats. There have been way more 100-200 level seats left empty for games this year as I can ever remember. You can criticize the students all you want for not showing, but many of you are pots calling the kettle black. Many of you calling for the students tickets are the ones saying you are not going to renew your tickets next year and that you have found it easy to replace the Flyers and find something better to do. I think arguing to take their tickets is a bit hypocritical when so many of you have wavered on the Flyers this year as well.

I am a season ticket holder in the 200 level and have been to every game this year, have not threatened to give up my tickets, and have not said I have found it easy to replace the Flyers and find something better to do - so I guess I am allowed to talk. I agree the season ticket holders should show up, but at least they are supporting the entire athletic program with their seat licenses, and the weather has been a problem for some of them, as some live quite a distance from the arena. The students have no excuse. Student seats have been taken away from them before when they weren't filling them (Section 211 and, I believe, 214). I see no reason why it couldn't/shouldn't happen again if they continue not showing up.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Why don't we worry about the season ticket holders filling their seats before we talk about taking away the student seats. There have been way more 100-200 level seats left empty for games this year as I can ever remember. You can criticize the students all you want for not showing, but many of you are pots calling the kettle black. Many of you calling for the students tickets are the ones saying you are not going to renew your tickets next year and that you have found it easy to replace the Flyers and find something better to do. I think arguing to take their tickets is a bit hypocritical when so many of you have wavered on the Flyers this year as well.

I agree with the frustration on both sides.

With that said. Season ticket holders have a financial investment into UD and the program. The students have none. UD needs to be really concerned with the fact that the lower bowl only is occupied to the point it is because those people are invested in those seats. The students have absolutely no investment in those seats. What has happened, IMO, is that the student issue has been there for a couple seasons, and the lack of production on the floor and ****ty home games has caused the students not to care about going and getting spirit points.

UD has lost the students and they are about to lose the paid season ticket holders. Students could not care less about anything other than the product on the floor. Not beer prices, not the entertainment, not half time, not the band, nothing...they want to see a good basketball team against good opponents that gives them a reason to make a road trip to a NCAA host site for a tournament game.

UD needs to look in the mirror and place blame where blame is due. On the team and program. No other aspect of this operation has anything to do with attendance other than basketball.

If UD was serious about UD student participation, and the opponents and quality of team can't be fixed, they better start getting creative to get the kids in the seats.

I have an 8am class. Do I tie one on for a 9pm game against Lasalle? Or say the hell with it and stay at my house and watch it on TV?

Student apathy is in line with what many fans feel like. It is only the fact that many fans have about 75+ bucks tied up in the game...which makes them feel obligated to show up.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Student seats have been taken away from them before when they weren't filling them (Section 211 and, I believe, 213). I see no reason why it couldn't/shouldn't happen again if they continue not showing up.

And it needs to happen again. Quit coddling them and trying to convince them to show up. Cut the seats...see how bad they ***** and moan...and tell them that if they don't show up...this happens....eventually they will figure it out.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I agree with the frustration on both sides. With that said. Season ticket holders have a financial investment into UD and the program. The students have none. UD needs to be really concerned with the fact that the lower bowl only is occupied to the point it is because those people are invested in those seats. The students have absolutely no investment in those seats. What has happened, IMO, is that the student issue has been there for a couple seasons, and the lack of production on the floor and ****ty home games has caused the students not to care about going and getting spirit points. UD has lost the students and they are about to lose the paid season ticket holders. Students could not care less about anything other than the product on the floor. Not beer prices, not the entertainment, not half time, not the band, nothing...they want to see a good basketball team against good opponents that gives them a reason to make a road trip to a NCAA host site for a tournament game. UD needs to look in the mirror and place blame where blame is due. On the team and program. No other aspect of this operation has anything to do with attendance other than basketball. If UD was serious about UD student participation, and the opponents and quality of team can't be fixed, they better start getting creative to get the kids in the seats. I have an 8am class. Do I tie one on for a 9pm game against Lasalle? Or say the hell with it and stay at my house and watch it on TV? Student apathy is in line with what many fans feel like. It is only the fact that many fans have about 75+ bucks tied up in the game...which makes them feel obligated to show up.

While I agree with much of what you just said, I disagree that students have no investment. Students are paying 30-40k a year to go to UD. And all pay fees that go to the athletic department whether they want it to or not and whether they give a **** about UD athletics or not. They have no choice that part of their tuition goes to athletics, that is why they are rewarded with seats to games.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Sea Bass]

make a section of 200 level tickets behind the students available the entire season for non-season ticket holders.

The 200 sections always fill up when the students are on break.

It certainly is not good to have the student section 2/3 empty when the game starts ... and it happens game after game.

[Radar]

...students are encouraged to attend Wedneday's game. Among other things, five $250 travel vouchers will be given away; Archie is picking up the tab for $7 food vouchers during the game; the first 40 students to get tickets tomorrow will also get a parking pass.