True Team?

[UDGutter2]

Not a big fan of this, but this team I think could benefit from a team building exercise. I said this early in the season to some friends and it was poo-pooed as nothing because the team was winning. The problem i saw has not gone away, but hasnt gotten worse either. I DO NOT see true team, I see two teams, one of juniors and one of freshmen. DD, DP, and BW work well with both, and maybe Crosby fits in, but I swear I see a divide between the two classes. Not a big one, but one that needs addressed.

Granted a couple of made baskets would help make this problem look a lot less important.

[Jeff]

Thought I heard something on the post game concerning Scooch & Pierre not getting along? Did anyone else hear that?

[Jeff]

It looks like we have a different divide. Seems like we have one offense for when Steve is in the game, and another when he is out. I'm a big fan of Steve, but it seems as if the O slows down when he's in. It may be due to us not having a consisent outside shooter all year, so team double him, and he doesnt pass out fast enough. He's not the same passer as DP, but he is a freshman...

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Jeff Thought I heard something on the post game concerning Scooch & Pierre not getting along? Did anyone else hear that?

Wasn't listening, but it's obvious this team isn't a well-oiled machine right now. And I have no idea "who" doesn't like "whom", but it sure seems as if there's some friction, as well as a leadership void. They really seem to miss the leadership of guys like Jordan & Vee.
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[redbengal]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 Not a big fan of this, but this team I think could benefit from a team building exercise. I said this early in the season to some friends and it was poo-pooed as nothing because the team was winning. The problem i saw has not gone away, but hasnt gotten worse either. I DO NOT see true team, I see two teams, one of juniors and one of freshmen. DD, DP, and BW work well with both, and maybe Crosby fits in, but I swear I see a divide between the two classes. Not a big one, but one that needs addressed. Granted a couple of made baskets would help make this problem look a lot less important.

IF... this is indeed a "class" war, then the Freshmen should be reminded that they need to earn some respect by doing anything at all that is smart and good when they sniff the court. And it's the Junior class (along with Pierre) who should VERY LOUDLY be sending that message. At least the Juniors have been there, done that. In fact, they can even draw on the season when they were Freshmen for proof that things can indeed turn around.

Two years ago, when things looked bleak in January, is when TRUE TEAM was born. Last year, under all that adversity, only served to strengthen the TRUE TEAM. What has changed? Is it the Freshmen? Big Steve and Cooke were part of the program last year but things can change when players are active members of the roster. I don't know if there is a class war going on but there's undeniably a lack of chemistry, leadership, and attitude of True Team.

I don't know if a team building exercise will fix things at this stage. I'm thinking more along the lines of a "life is short" speech - maybe by someone who almost had it all but lost it. Dyshawn's college career is almost over and the Juniors can't be assured that they'll make it back to the Big Dance next year. The problem isn't talent. It's much bigger than that.

[Smitty10]

Well, I don't know if any of this is true or not but if there is a big divide somewhere, it better get corrected right now or this could have effects in the long term. Especially if Freshman aren't happy. Look for transfers if not corrected by about NOW.

[NCkevi]

I'm thinking they could use some sessions with a good sports psychologist as based on Nov-Jan the talent is there to make a run

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by Jeff Thought I heard something on the post game concerning Scooch & Pierre not getting along? Did anyone else hear that?

Scooch and Cooke its all over twitter

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by NCkevi I'm thinking they could use some sessions with a good sports psychologist as based on Nov-Jan the talent is there to make a run

Sports Psychologists might work for an individual's mental game, but I doubt there's one in the world who could fix team chemistry in the matter of time needed.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 Scooch and Cooke its all over twitter

Okay, as I've been complaining a lot lately, Cooke is ball and shot hogging these days. He's the most culpable IMO for the ball movement not working like it has and should and that's making the extra passes to find the open man.

I don't care who hates who, AM needs to yank these guys immediately when they aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing.

The quick passing and shot fakes are what opens things up, not stopping then dribbling inside. That's what allows defenses to recover.

[Ready Action]

I'm just throwing this out there without any facts, but can someone in the know write how often NBA scouts are at the Flyers practices and games? I've heard several times that the NBA scouts are drooling over Big Steve's growth so far and future potential. We know Big Steve is not leaving this summer, but I wonder if others on the team are trying to impress said scouts as we know there are a number of guys in the league who were discovered of the backs of teammates.

[priceg75]

If these guys are letting personal crap spill over onto the floor, then they need to grow up or GTFO. This isn't about them, it's about the team.

[Levelbest]

Something is clearly wrong - it's not the same team out there as the start of the season. Ball movement was much better. Right now, looks like a bunch of individuals on the court... every man for themselves.

[Tony T 71]

[QUOTE=Levelbest;446045]Something is clearly wrong - it's not the same team out there as the start of the season. Ball movement was much better. Right now, looks like a bunch of individuals on the court... every man for themselves.[/QUOTE

Couldn't agree more, we are totally out of sync. Too much dribbling and one on one junk Help defense is non existent. When a player who has taken 15 shots all season and averages one point per game goes 7/7 on uncontested layups and scores 15 points, something is seriously wrong

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 Scooch and Cooke its all over twitter

Something is wrong but I wouldn't put too much into twitter, Trump uses twitter

Until Rollo comes up with what is going on I will reserve judgement.

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by priceg75 If these guys are letting personal crap spill over onto the floor, then they need to grow up or GTFO. This isn't about them, it's about the team.

I think I mentioned it briefly in today's game thread, but since it was brought up above: this shockingly sudden downturn in form has all the makings of hearing in the middle of the summer some guy was messing around with someone else's girlfriend. I'm not saying that has happened, but it seems like 180s like this always have roots in something personal.

I like to live in a naive world where all the players on the teams I support like each other and want to hang out with each other. I really, really hope there are no significant personality conflicts on this team because (a) this current team can be extremely difficult to beat and (b) minus Pierre this team is back for 2016-2017. I don't want personal crap today to trash two seasons.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by MikeF I think I mentioned it briefly in today's game thread, but since it was brought up above: this shockingly sudden downturn in form has all the makings of hearing in the middle of the summer some guy was messing around with someone else's girlfriend. I'm not saying that has happened, but it seems like 180s like this always have roots in something personal. I like to live in a naive world where all the players on the teams I support like each other and want to hang out with each other. I really, really hope there are no significant personality conflicts on this team because (a) this current team can be extremely difficult to beat and (b) minus Pierre this team is back for 2016-2017. I don't want personal crap today to trash two seasons.

I don't give a crap if these guys like each other or not. There's no way that should have an effect on execution. They won with each other by doing their jobs. That shouldn't change because you dislike someone. Cooke has been killing this team's ball movement when we have our starting 5 in there. I think he's been reading his own press clippings and starting to get a big head about it. Of all the players on the team, other than maybe John Crosby, he's the one who's forcing things on offense and not letting the proper flow of passing take place.

This should be a simple game for this team on offense. You get the ball in one of two players hands, Steve or Dyshawn's. They both are great passers and make the right decisions on offense. That should be the goal on every possession.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Levelbest Something is clearly wrong - it's not the same team out there as the start of the season. Ball movement was much better. Right now, looks like a bunch of individuals on the court... every man for themselves.

Spot on, give that man a beer!

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by Levelbest Ball movement was much better. Right now, looks like a bunch of individuals on the court... every man for themselves.

Earlier in the season - especially with both Pierre and Healthy Pollard - Dayton looked like more of a slashing, driving team which penetrated, kicked out, whipped an extra pass or two, and got open looks and hit a decent number of threes. Over the last three or four games, opponents are clogging the lane - especially with McElvene in the game - and Dayton's slashing and driving game has nearly disappeared, leaving the outside players to (seemingly half-heartedly) pass around the perimeter. They've struggled driving - how many out-of-control contested shots has this team fired up in the last two weeks? - and they've struggled feeding the paint. To make matters worse, they're struggling from outside while getting fewer open looks.

I'm not sure which is the cause and which is the effect, but Dayton's offensive efficiency the last two weeks has been abysmal.

[bhflyer5]

[QUOTE=Tony T 71;446051]

Originally Posted by Levelbest Something is clearly wrong - it's not the same team out there as the start of the season. Ball movement was much better. Right now, looks like a bunch of individuals on the court... every man for themselves.[/QUOTE Couldn't agree more, we are totally out of sync. Too much dribbling and one on one junk Help defense is non existent. When a player who has taken 15 shots all season and averages one point per game goes 7/7 on uncontested layups and scores 15 points, something is seriously wrong Something is wrong but I wouldn't put too much into twitter, Trump uses twitter Until Rollo comes up with what is going on I will reserve judgement.

Wait wait wait....I don't see anything on Twitter. What are you referring to?

[T-Bone 84]

I don't know if I'd say it's "every" man for himself, but there has been a lot more one-on-one play, with not nearly enough passing. I said after the SLU game that our perimeter players (the 1, 2, & 3 slots) combined for 2 assists in 135 minutes. That is glaring evidence of guys playing selfishly, and that kind of play will result in a 5 game losing streak (today, at Richmond, against VCU, in Brooklyn, and in whatever postseason tournament wants us), that will end what should have been our greatest season in half a century.

CUT THE BULL$#!+, BOYS!!! MAN UP & PLAY LIKE A TEAM, OR GO THE #@!! HOME!!!
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[flyrsmedic]

In the second half when Miller was in the game, during a stoppage in play, Scooch grabbed Miller's arm and Sam forcefully pulled away, said something back and was pulled. Miller slammed down in a chair on the bench and was not inserted again. Some type of strife going on.

[bhflyer5]

Originally Posted by flyrsmedic In the second half when Miller was in the game, during a stoppage in play, Scooch grabbed Miller's arm and Sam forcefully pulled away, said something back and was pulled. Miller slammed down in a chair on the bench and was not inserted again. Some type of strife going on.

That's interesting. I can believe that with Sam. He's been the biggest baby whenever a call is made against his numerous moving screens. I just still don't understand the lack of ball movement and this claim that theres some kind of tension between Cooke and Scooch. Where's the evidence of that?

[bhflyer5]

Originally Posted by flyrsmedic In the second half when Miller was in the game, during a stoppage in play, Scooch grabbed Miller's arm and Sam forcefully pulled away, said something back and was pulled. Miller slammed down in a chair on the bench and was not inserted again. Some type of strife going on.

Are you sure it was in the 2nd half? I just FF through the entire 2nd half and didn't see anything...or even Sam get in the game...?

[bhflyer5]

Originally Posted by bhflyer5 Are you sure it was in the 2nd half? I just FF through the entire 2nd half and didn't see anything...or even Sam get in the game...?

Nevermind- I found it. 2:22 to go in the 1st after he lost a rebound, and then got blocked out of bounds. Miller has been a bit pathetic to me this year. Slow, pouty, childish. Wouldn't be surprised if he tries to transfer after this year.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by bhflyer5 Are you sure it was in the 2nd half? I just FF through the entire 2nd half and didn't see anything...or even Sam get in the game...?

Flyrsmedic saw what I saw, and a little bit more. I saw Sam have a call go against him, blow up in response, have a little conflict with someone(s) on his own team, get pulled, storm to the end of the bench, and then reluctantly drag his @$$ back up to a seat near the coaches. Couldn't have seen even 2 minutes of action.
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[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by bhflyer5 Nevermind- I found it. 2:22 to go in the 1st after he lost a rebound, and then got blocked out of bounds. Miller has been a bit pathetic to me this year. Slow, pouty, childish. Wouldn't be surprised if he tries to transfer after this year.

I'd rather see him grow up and channel that "fire" into a solid sophomore season for our Flyers.
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[bhflyer5]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 I'd rather see him grow up and channel that "fire" into a solid sophomore season for our Flyers. Posted via Mobile Device

Agreed. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to. This isn't the first game he's stormed to the bench. I'm not sure that's the problem here though. I've heard a couple people mention Cooke has been hogging it lately and slows down the ball movement, but I haven't seen a ton of that. I could be wrong and I'll be sure to look for that from now on.

If this is a chemistry issue, this falls a lot on the coach. I'm not even going to begin to bash Archie, but he needs to be on top of this if it's a true team chemistry issue (no pun intended).

[TerryK_67]

Six straight games that all looked very similar. At some point doesn't that starts to fall back on the coaches, no? We ripped BG for being stubborn and never changing. Well the full court press at the end of the game today was the first hint of any change from Archie. And that seemed a little too late. No clue what is wrong, but continuing to do the same things the same way gets us back to Einstein......

[CT Flyer]

One thing I have noticed in the last few weeks is how whenever we have a turnover the person involved is always trying to blame someone else for the turnover by saying you should have made a cut here or go back door, etc. At the beginning of the season when there was a turnover, and there were plenty even when we were playing well, it was a lot more of my bad, sorry I threw it to the wrong spot, etc. To me this speaks volumes!

[Flyer 86]

I live in ny and watch every 2nd or 3rd game, and gametrack most

I can clearly believe Scooch and Cooke.

I also believe Sam M has THE WORST body language in games.
big baby.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by Flyer 86 I live in ny and watch every 2nd or 3rd game, and gametrack most I can clearly believe Scooch and Cooke. I also believe Sam M has THE WORST body language in games. big baby.

Preach on brother

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer One thing I have noticed in the last few weeks is how whenever we have a turnover the person involved is always trying to blame someone else for the turnover by saying you should have made a cut here or go back door, etc. At the beginning of the season when there was a turnover, and there were plenty even when we were playing well, it was a lot more of my bad, sorry I threw it to the wrong spot, etc. To me this speaks volumes!

You are talking about Scoochie no doubt about it

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 You are talking about Scoochie no doubt about it

Scoochie is no doubt the biggest culprit but he's not the only one doing it.

[glfsls]

Sam is the problem. In timeouts he is not engaged at all. You could see the during the St. Louis telecast during huddle close ups. If you are not paying attention how can you know what to do when your numbers called.

[jack72]

Sam may be immature and acting childish, but he cannot be affecting the entire team. The guy barely sees the floor. This problem is between the juniors, as every one of them is in a funk right now. They are the ones on the court when the passing and defense doesn't happen.

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I don't give a crap if these guys like each other or not. There's no way that should have an effect on execution. They won with each other by doing their jobs. That shouldn't change because you dislike someone.

Boston Redsox "25 players, 25 cabs" = Dayton Flyers "18 players, 18 Ubers". Just win baby.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Ready Action Boston Redsox "25 players, 25 cabs" = Dayton Flyers "18 players, 18 Ubers". Just win baby.

Let me state that in my quoted post, I didn't mean it as it isn't happening, just saying it shouldn't, even with conflicts. Professional sports is quite different, there's free-agency and always next year. In NCAA sports, time is always running out. It's much more in a player's interest to play through the conflict, forget the conflict during game time. Turn your selfishness into a selfishness of wins rather than personal accomplishments.

[UDGutter2]

I am not sure what the problem is, but it needs to be fixed. The $#!÷ has hit the fans, and we don't like it.

[Angry John]

Personally, someone has to be suspended one game to send a message to the team. My vote would be Miller for his outbursts. When it comes to the the Juniors, I would flat tell them if the matters are not resolved, player's scholarships may not be renewed next year.

Edit: You do try reasoning first with the involved parties and you work with them to resolve the problems.

[CE80]

All this reminds me of BGs last year and the Staten mess. Not a good memory.

[Flyer69ers]

Arch had to turn the Flyers around once before when there were "issues" - (2 yrs ago?)
hope he can do it again. ASAP

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by CE80 All this reminds me of BGs last year and the Staten mess. Not a good memory.

And we all know the ultimate outcome of that mess.

[Ready Action]

Originally Posted by TommyGola And we all know the ultimate outcome of that mess.

Program will keep rollin' along regardless of coaches, players and fanatics.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by TommyGola And we all know the ultimate outcome of that mess.

So you're saying . . . Archie's the new Georgia Tech coach?

___________________
You have got to buck up, man. You cannot drag this negative energy into the tournament!
Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark So you're saying . . . Archie's the new Georgia Tech coach? ___________________ You have got to buck up, man. You cannot drag this negative energy into the tournament! Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

No, but as I foretold in that dismal season's end, I see some transfers coming.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by TommyGola No, but as I foretold in that dismal season's end, I see some transfers coming.

If they do it will break up the frosh class a bit. Filling that many scholarships in one year leads to little playing time and what we see now. All imo

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by bhflyer5 That's interesting. I can believe that with Sam. He's been the biggest baby whenever a call is made against his numerous moving screens. I just still don't understand the lack of ball movement and this claim that theres some kind of tension between Cooke and Scooch. Where's the evidence of that?

Haven't seen it said but SM was thisfar from quitting. He had one foot headed toward the tunnel when he wheeled and plopped.

[UDDoug]

There might be some transfers out of the freshman class as they also realize playing time may be limited next year.

But I also don't think anything going on with the freshmen is what ails the team. It's with the juniors and the senior. They are the ones with the minutes on the court.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Haven't seen it said but SM was thisfar from quitting. He had one foot headed toward the tunnel when he wheeled and plopped.

His expressions alone tell me what I need to know. Someone who thinks they should be getting more than they are getting...

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Haven't seen it said but SM was thisfar from quitting. He had one foot headed toward the tunnel when he wheeled and plopped.

Saw the same thing, but from across the Arena (my seat's in 215), I couldn't tell if it was his own common sense or a coach's mandate that he get his a$$ back to the head of the bench and sit down. I hope the kid can get his feces aggregated, because I can see some upside in him. But he needs to grow the he!! up.
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