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  #1  
Old 11-11-2008, 11:55 AM
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Staten/kavanaugh/Payne

Nice thread on some of our recruits:

http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthre...oto=nextnewest
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2008, 02:01 PM
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Ryan Bass is also a UD recruit who is very talented as said in the article
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:44 PM
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This quote really set me back a little. I had no idea that M Kavanaugh was developing to that degree.

"If you had seen Kavanaugh play Payne this summer you would not be singing his praises, Kavanaugh crushed him, blocked his shot, dunked on him and doubled him in points and rebounds, I have seen few kids beaten more soundly and their team crushed more convincingly then I did when they met at UD team camp".

A lot of experts have checked in on Payne, so I take that with a grain of salt. But Kavanaugh sounds as if he may be an instant help kind of guy.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:20 PM
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FYI - I believe today is signing day. Should have Matt on the dotted line sometime today.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:32 PM
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I saw some clip on Kavanaugh from the winter bball tournament. He was playing against someone about 7'. Matt put the ball on the floor from the foul line and hit a pull up jumper, very impressive. He seems to be a great combination of finesse in handling the ball but has plenty of power and knows when to use it.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:45 PM
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MK was a tall shooting guard before he hit a big growth spurt that moved him inside. He has an excellent handle and great athleticism for a big man. He was a basketball player well before he was a big man, and that has translated big time to his game. He is 17 years old and is already 6'10" and 230 lbs or so. He could be a legit center for UD, even compared to the big boys in the BCS schools.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2008, 04:09 PM
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The signing period starts tomorrow I believe. Kav doesn't get near the run on here that he should, probably lost in the hopes of Payne and other future targets. Hard to believe Kav hasn't even played a game his senior year, seems like he's been part of the flyer family forever (I guess if you include him as a fan, then he likely been a part his whole life growing up in a flyer household) Good kid, solid family, should put in the work once he gets here (and before). He & Benson (assuming he redshirts) should form an excellant front court. Both can shot from beyond 5' a bit, Benson is the superior in athletic ability, but Kav has him beat in fundamentals. Throw Staten into the mix at point and UD's got the making of a really solid grouping.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:56 PM
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FWIW, people close to the program have indicated that Huggins (WVU) is coming hard after Kavanaugh. No indication that he may be rethinking his verbal, but it will be nice to get that letter signed.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by shapanud View Post
FWIW, people close to the program have indicated that Huggins (WVU) is coming hard after Kavanaugh. No indication that he may be rethinking his verbal, but it will be nice to get that letter signed.
Huggy recruiting someone hard who has already verballed to his hometown team??? Naw - couldn't be!
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Huggy recruiting someone hard who has already verballed to his hometown team??? Naw - couldn't be!
I am shocked!
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2008, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Huggy recruiting someone hard who has already verballed to his hometown team??? Naw - couldn't be!
What?

Huggy no way. Come on he wouldn't even think of doing that.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2008, 10:00 AM
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??

Were any of our potential recruits at the game last night?
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:24 AM
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Wow! Huggins doing something that every coach in the country does! I am shocked as well.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:11 PM
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Reality Check...

Guys, for quite a few years now I've been hearing about UD's great recruits and the elevation in the talent level in the BG era. Yet we are an 8-8 team in a good but far from great league. I'll start believing the recruiting hype when UD's performance on the court positions us consistently near the top of the A10,...when getting to dance becomes a regular event,... when we make it past the first game,...when we win a Xavier game on the road,...when BCS teams aren't afraid that a loss to the Flyers at the Arena will be viewed as a "bad loss".

...don't mean to be a wet blanket. But I want to see the results we all crave before I get too excited about our recruits.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys, for quite a few years now I've been hearing about UD's great recruits and the elevation in the talent level in the BG era. Yet we are an 8-8 team in a good but far from great league. I'll start believing the recruiting hype when UD's performance on the court positions us consistently near the top of the A10,...when getting to dance becomes a regular event,... when we make it past the first game,...when we win a Xavier game on the road,...when BCS teams aren't afraid that a loss to the Flyers at the Arena will be viewed as a "bad loss".

...don't mean to be a wet blanket. But I want to see the results we all crave before I get too excited about our recruits.
How about climbing in the ranks to 14th last year before going belly up due to injuries. We are just finally seeing the maturity of some of his recruits and they are getting better. We just need the depth that we are finally starting to get, a little more depth and we may have made it last year.

I think 5 years to build a consistent program is quite a task to complete, but we might just be there, and the recruiting pipeline is producing. I like your performance criteria as a measurement of success! We shall see.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys, for quite a few years now I've been hearing about UD's great recruits and the elevation in the talent level in the BG era. Yet we are an 8-8 team in a good but far from great league. I'll start believing the recruiting hype when UD's performance on the court positions us consistently near the top of the A10,...when getting to dance becomes a regular event,... when we make it past the first game,...when we win a Xavier game on the road,...when BCS teams aren't afraid that a loss to the Flyers at the Arena will be viewed as a "bad loss".

...don't mean to be a wet blanket. But I want to see the results we all crave before I get too excited about our recruits.
When we get as good as UConn?
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys, for quite a few years now I've been hearing about UD's great recruits and the elevation in the talent level in the BG era. Yet we are an 8-8 team in a good but far from great league. I'll start believing the recruiting hype when UD's performance on the court positions us consistently near the top of the A10,...when getting to dance becomes a regular event,... when we make it past the first game,...when we win a Xavier game on the road,...when BCS teams aren't afraid that a loss to the Flyers at the Arena will be viewed as a "bad loss".

...don't mean to be a wet blanket. But I want to see the results we all crave before I get too excited about our recruits.
I could care less what someone is rated/ranked. I go by what I see on the court and this is the most talented team in a while, at least since the Hall/Finn/Keith W team and with the potential to be better than that.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
I could care less what someone is rated/ranked. I go by what I see on the court and this is the most talented team in a while, at least since the Hall/Finn/Keith W team and with the potential to be better than that.
I think this team has way more potential than any of the OP coached teams. Now, we shall see if it all comes together or not.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by premania View Post
Wow! Huggins doing something that every coach in the country does! I am shocked as well.
premania comes out of hibernation to defend Huggy - what a surprise!
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:27 PM
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Amazing that some UC fans feelings still get hurt when Huggins ill-gotten reputation comes up.
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:54 AM
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What is "ill-gotten" about Huggin's reputation? He has earned every inch of it!
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys, for quite a few years now I've been hearing about UD's great recruits and the elevation in the talent level in the BG era. Yet we are an 8-8 team in a good but far from great league. I'll start believing the recruiting hype when UD's performance on the court positions us consistently near the top of the A10,...when getting to dance becomes a regular event,... when we make it past the first game,...when we win a Xavier game on the road,...when BCS teams aren't afraid that a loss to the Flyers at the Arena will be viewed as a "bad loss".

...don't mean to be a wet blanket. But I want to see the results we all crave before I get too excited about our recruits.
May not have nearly as much to do with the recruits as the coaching,itself.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:42 AM
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UACFlyer is right. I am a results man as should all of you who are paying season ticket prices.

Until BG proves it on the court and gets us to the dance and does damage, then I will say we have increased talent and "top rectruits." Just because a guy can jump out of the building or is big doesn't mean there "sweet" rankings will mold into college basketball.

Maybe its just me, but how can people say the talent level is at an all-time high when we just had a team in 2002-03 and 03-04 go to the Ncaa Tournament, split with X each year and legitamately challenge for the A-10 crown.

Until it is proven on the court ... give me the slow footed Finn and Wally complimented by the non-freak athlete at PG who has basketball IQ and could shoot in Ramod ... those guys proved it on the court and it showed with Wins.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:48 AM
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I just love the hypocrisy.

Fact is Purdue was still recruiting him, Wake as well. Where is the outrage over those coaches??? Gregory made a career out of doing it at Michigan State and will continue to do it. Let the equal opportunity ****ing and moaning begin.....waiting....oh its not gonna come is it. Just like when OP was here and it was said that UD would never stand for a coach that whined to officials. Enter BG and its all good to do that all of the sudden.

Jamar Butler verballed to UC during his soph. season...he even got a C-Paw tattoo. Come signing day he signs with OSU....It happens everywhere! It just amazes me how some people on this board have their head in the clouds about things like this. I guarantee you there are coaches still recruiting Staten. At some point their will be a post about Matta showing up at his practices, or Roy Williams at his AAU games. It is the price you pay for getting early verbals from quality players.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ClearTheRunwayForWLJ View Post
UACFlyer is right. I am a results man as should all of you who are paying season ticket prices.

Until BG proves it on the court and gets us to the dance and does damage, then I will say we have increased talent and "top rectruits." Just because a guy can jump out of the building or is big doesn't mean there "sweet" rankings will mold into college basketball.

Maybe its just me, but how can people say the talent level is at an all-time high when we just had a team in 2002-03 and 03-04 go to the Ncaa Tournament, split with X each year and legitamately challenge for the A-10 crown.

Until it is proven on the court ... give me the slow footed Finn and Wally complimented by the non-freak athlete at PG who has basketball IQ and could shoot in Ramod ... those guys proved it on the court and it showed with Wins.
I remember on our court in the Finals of the A10 tournment against X, those players bricked FTs and we lost the game
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:53 AM
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I'd rather be in the tourny consistently with "those guys" who were proven winners than the last 5 years. From Maui to the Ncaa, I feel a sense of turning as well guys, I do ... but I refuse to admit that everything is so much better when just 5 years ago we had a model for winning.

It is not always about running, jumping and dunks. Basketball IQ, rebounding and shooting wins ball games. Finn, Wally and Ramod did the job. No one since that has yet.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:08 AM
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Purnell maxed out with the Finn/ Wally / Marshall teams. 1st round of the NCAA tournament was as far as they were ever going to make it.

I think we all have the feeling that with the type of players Gregory has brought in (Chris Wright, Marcus Johnson, Paul Williams, Benson and players like Kavanaugh and Staten on the way not to mention the possibility of Payne) that these Flyer teams are set up for perhaps runs in the NCAA tournament. There is no disputing the fact the bar has gone way up as far as talent is concerned.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:10 AM
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Butler "unverballed" long before signing day and he hadn't already made up his mind about where to go. He reopened the search because he finally realized who Huggins really was.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer1407 View Post
Purnell maxed out with the Finn/ Wally / Marshall teams...
I think that the posters that are holding back on the optimism are worried that BG has never "maxed out" on the talents of his teams. I have to say I agree with that assessment.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
I think that the posters that are holding back on the optimism are worried that BG has never "maxed out" on the talents of his teams. I have to say I agree with that assessment.
It's a valid point, but you could argue that we were finally seeing a true Gregory team last year when we were ranked #14 and then were decimated with injuries. Remove Finn and Waleskowski from a large part of the season the year we won the A-10 and see how it would have turned out.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:58 AM
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It's almost not fair to hold Huggybear accountable for his actions when he is wasted.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
Butler "unverballed" long before signing day and he hadn't already made up his mind about where to go. He reopened the search because he finally realized who Huggins really was.
08/06/03; 5pm: "There will be a meeting Tuesday night to determine -- once and for all -- if he's decommitting. After Tuesday night, we'll know what's going on." - Dave Telep, Insiders

Next day....
08/07/03: "Tomorrow will be a big day for the Ohio State program. Jamar Butler, who recently changed his mind on his verbal commitment to Cincinnati, will take a visit to the Buckeyes' campus in Columbus, Ohio. A source close to Butler told RivalsHoops.com that Jamar would likely verbal to Jim O'Brien's program if the visit goes well." - http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/

08/09/03: "point guard Jamar Butler committed to Ohio State just days after backing out of his verbal pledge to Bob Huggins and Cincinnati." - PrepStars.com

Your definition of long is a lot shorter then mine. Looks to me like he had a pretty good idea where he was going seeing as how it took him all of 2 days to verbal to OSU. But, hey don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

Oh and how he felt about Huggins.

Butler verbally committed to Cincinnati as a high school sophomore but switched to Ohio State in late August. �That was the toughest phone call I ever made. (Bob) Huggins is still a great coach, I have a lot of respect for him. But I just felt like I fit in better at Ohio State,� Butler said. - Lima News
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  #33  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:09 PM
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If you are eqauting the importance of Finn or Waleskowski to Little then you are insane, also please don't equate Wally as a 5th year to Wright as a freshman ... its not even close.


But yes, I understand where you guys are coming from. Purnell did max them out but I will also say we should have won the Depaul game as we all know and I think if that is OP coaching instead of BG in his first year, then we do win that game. So it is hard to say they maxed out.

Let me put it this way. When BG puts three 1,000 point scorers on the floor at the same time in a season, then I will agree he has upped the talent level at this school or if they make a run in the Ncaa tourny.

Until something is done on the court, athletes and high school ratings mean nothing to me, sorry guys.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ClearTheRunwayForWLJ View Post
Until something is done on the court, athletes and high school ratings mean nothing to me, sorry guys.
I'm glad you apologized to all of us because this news comes as a big blow to everyone.
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  #35  
Old 11-13-2008, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by premania View Post
I just love the hypocrisy.

Fact is Purdue was still recruiting him, Wake as well. Where is the outrage over those coaches??? Gregory made a career out of doing it at Michigan State and will continue to do it. Let the equal opportunity ****ing and moaning begin.....waiting....oh its not gonna come is it. Just like when OP was here and it was said that UD would never stand for a coach that whined to officials. Enter BG and its all good to do that all of the sudden.

Jamar Butler verballed to UC during his soph. season...he even got a C-Paw tattoo. Come signing day he signs with OSU....It happens everywhere! It just amazes me how some people on this board have their head in the clouds about things like this. I guarantee you there are coaches still recruiting Staten. At some point their will be a post about Matta showing up at his practices, or Roy Williams at his AAU games. It is the price you pay for getting early verbals from quality players.
Fortunately we have to-date recruited players with high ethics as well as their support groups--be they mom's, dad's, or advisors. We have missed on a few that had renege tendencies and in the long run have been much better off for it. I suppose some day the inevitable will happen, but it is the nature of college basketball recruiting these days to have very early commitments and prolonged verbal waiting periods. Recruiting quality individuals with strong support groups goes a long way toward mitigating that risk.

I recall BG recruiting Texan's Marcus Brister and Dwight Thorne some years back and actually sent BG an email telling him that verbals down here aren't worth the microphone that that they speak into. Nothing against those kids but the risk on waiting is huge.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:39 PM
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Of course you'd rather have a verbal then not, but in today's game it doesn't mean squat. A ton of things can happen between your sophomore year in HS and signing day. Why wouldn't you want to at least stay in contact with a player you like even if they do verbal somewhere else? Tons of things can happen that could change any players mind. Maybe your dream school becomes interested now that your not 'under the radar' anymore, maybe the coach(es) that recruited you have moved on, maybe a better fit opened up for you somewhere due to injury/transfer/turning pro/off-court problem. Maybe your just a couple of years older and certain things are simply more or less important.

All of these are good reasons to stay in touch with players that have verballed elsewhere if your a coach. You just never know when something will happen and you have to be in a position to do what is best for your team.
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by premania View Post
I just love the hypocrisy.

Fact is Purdue was still recruiting him, Wake as well. Where is the outrage over those coaches??? Gregory made a career out of doing it at Michigan State and will continue to do it. Let the equal opportunity ****ing and moaning begin.....waiting....oh its not gonna come is it. Just like when OP was here and it was said that UD would never stand for a coach that whined to officials. Enter BG and its all good to do that all of the sudden.

Jamar Butler verballed to UC during his soph. season...he even got a C-Paw tattoo. Come signing day he signs with OSU....It happens everywhere! It just amazes me how some people on this board have their head in the clouds about things like this. I guarantee you there are coaches still recruiting Staten. At some point their will be a post about Matta showing up at his practices, or Roy Williams at his AAU games. It is the price you pay for getting early verbals from quality players.
OK then, outrage over the Purdue and Wake coaches. You can make the point that other coaches do it, and you are correct, but that does not make it correct or ethical, nor does it mean every coach does it. Keeping in touch is one thing, persuading a kid to break his verbal is where it crosses the line.
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer1407 View Post
It's a valid point, but you could argue that we were finally seeing a true Gregory team last year when we were ranked #14 and then were decimated with injuries. Remove Finn and Waleskowski from a large part of the season the year we won the A-10 and see how it would have turned out.
Originally Posted by ClearTheRunwayForWLJ View Post
If you are eqauting the importance of Finn or Waleskowski to Little then you are insane, also please don't equate Wally as a 5th year to Wright as a freshman ... its not even close.

Until something is done on the court, athletes and high school ratings mean nothing to me, sorry guys.
If KW had been lost for the year we would have been screwed, just like we were last year. And if you don't think Wright was just as important to last year's team as KW was to his, then you never saw CW play. I also think that attaining the highest ranking of a UD team in 40 years is doing something "on the court."
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  #39  
Old 11-13-2008, 08:18 PM
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Injuries are part of the game...

Guys,

The Pitt team that we smashed had two major injuries to deal with,...and deal with them they did. It's a darn shame that CW was lost for half the season. But, I doubt if many top tier teams would use loss of a freshman as an excuse for a near complete collapse.

As for longtimer's comment about "seeing CW play";.....I saw him play once, just once. I was fortunate enough to attend the Holy Cross game and I was really looking forward to watching CW play. It was a disappointment. As I recall he picked up two fouls in about the first minute of play; sat the rest of the first half; started the second half and spent most of the time watching his teammates play. UD won an exciting road game; but, not with any significant help from CW.

Now CW is a soph and once again we are counting on him to be the "star" of the team. Absent Roberts CW better live up to his advance billing or we are doomed.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:15 PM
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Yes injuries are a part of the game but they can have an effect on the success of a team. The problem with Wrights injury was that other teams could focus more on Brob. Anybody who doubts the effect of this are proved wrong in my opinion by the Illinois St. game. There is no way they win that without Wright and he wasn't even at full strength.

The funny thing to me is that the Flyers won 23 games last year and people are disappointed. They are disappointed because of the expectations that were created WHEN WRIGHT WAS PLAYING!
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  #41  
Old 11-13-2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys,

The Pitt team that we smashed had two major injuries to deal with,...and deal with them they did. It's a darn shame that CW was lost for half the season. But, I doubt if many top tier teams would use loss of a freshman as an excuse for a near complete collapse.

As for longtimer's comment about "seeing CW play";.....I saw him play once, just once. I was fortunate enough to attend the Holy Cross game and I was really looking forward to watching CW play. It was a disappointment. As I recall he picked up two fouls in about the first minute of play; sat the rest of the first half; started the second half and spent most of the time watching his teammates play. UD won an exciting road game; but, not with any significant help from CW.

Now CW is a soph and once again we are counting on him to be the "star" of the team. Absent Roberts CW better live up to his advance billing or we are doomed.
Yes, the Pitt team had injuries and we made them pay, we had injuries and collapsed. Remember, Little was injured and never seemed to fully recover, plus it seemed Roberts had the flu bug for a month and was a bit off and that bug went through the team. Basically we lacked depth and had Sandoval playing at the four spot at times while Little was out.

CW had trouble his first few road games. He was improving quickly as the season progressed and was becoming much more consistent and productive.

After reading this board the last few weeks, I am not reading many comments that we will be great because of Wright, I am reading that people are excited about our depth and athleticism this year and the fact that we have some new players that are ready to contribute.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Guys,

The Pitt team that we smashed had two major injuries to deal with,...and deal with them they did. It's a darn shame that CW was lost for half the season. But, I doubt if many top tier teams would use loss of a freshman as an excuse for a near complete collapse.

As for longtimer's comment about "seeing CW play";.....I saw him play once, just once. I was fortunate enough to attend the Holy Cross game and I was really looking forward to watching CW play. It was a disappointment. As I recall he picked up two fouls in about the first minute of play; sat the rest of the first half; started the second half and spent most of the time watching his teammates play. UD won an exciting road game; but, not with any significant help from CW.

Now CW is a soph and once again we are counting on him to be the "star" of the team. Absent Roberts CW better live up to his advance billing or we are doomed.
Being a UConn season ticket holder, you should know that top tier teams like UConn and Pitt have much more depth than teams like UD. We may have one player as good as CW. Those top teams probably have four or five. It is a totally different situation. (But we do have more depth this year than we had last year.) We would definitely have beaten GW, Duquesne, and LaSalle (and maybe someone else) had Wright not been hurt, finished at least 23-6, and had a very good seed in the NCAA. You seem to be pretty down on the Flyers lately and now you seem to be knocking CW after seeing him play once. Since you're so down on UD maybe you should just stick to the Big East.
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