Weclome Stadium Review

[PIONEER 8]

I stumbled across this and thought this guy really nailed it (especially when you read to the end about his suggestions). Very insightful for a total stranger that rates stadiums.


http://www.stadiumjourney.com/stadiu...-stadium-s1365

[UACFlyer]

A remarkable analysis!

[DetroitFlyer]

Pretty much spot on.

[mwflyer]

That article is spot on. After attending the banquet today and watching the season highlight video afterwards, it really stood out how bad Welcome stadium looks compared with our competition. It is embarrassing and shameful that a university with the resources and pride that Dayton has, allows this. I know for a fact that Butler uses Welcome Stadium against us as a selling point for recruits."would you rather play in a college stadium with your schools logos or would you rather play in a high school stadium?" We all talk about what it takes to get back on top,and a high school stadium certainly doesn't help in recruiting. We were told by the coaches when my son was being recruited that football would be back at Baujan by his junior year. I sure hope they were right. If this is going to happen something needs to be announced soon. I am getting nervous. If we can't get back on campus it would be nice to see some university markings within Welcome Stadium for now. Hopefully we can get a good discussion going here in the off season, and the powers that be make something happen! Go Flyers!

[DetroitFlyer]

Time will tell. I started following the Flyers in 1980. My fandom has only known Welcome. It has always been just an acceptable solution. At least now there is some momentum to do something. No doubt it is a major shortcoming compared to most of our PFL competition.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Welcome is not even a nice place for high school football anymore. I realize for the Dayton Public schools it is there only option at this point. However, based on the terrible attendance at city league games a stadium a fraction of the size of Welcome would be sufficient.

I can name probably a dozen GWOC schools with better stadiums, better concessions, better ambiance, and several with nearly as many seats as what Welcome has.

[UACFlyer]

Let's forget about WS' drawbacks for a while. The UD administrators know all about that....and Dr. Dan said in Maui that the issue is under consideration but no decisions have been made yet.

Instead, call up an overhead view of campus and try to find a way to accommodate FB, soccer and LAX. Also, there is a money issue. Priders often talk about UD's ample "resources". UD manages its finances well and sensibly.

Note, the chapel renovation which was to cost $12 million was to have been completed a long time ago. It hasn't even been started...although it soon will be. To start a new project you need a certain percentage of the funds in hand. It was not easy to raise the $12 million, which is still the estinated cost even though the plan has been scaled back.

I have no idea what the FB/S/LX project will cost....I think the larger issue is where to put it. Again....take a look at the overhead and come up with a sensible plan consistent with the overall campus master plan.

[Chris R]

I was recently assured that whatever happens with UD football, the UD soccer programs would not be compromised in any way and that "soccer needs to be played on grass." As UAC mentioned, making everything work for all parties w/o adversely affecting anyone is a challenge.

[mwflyer]

It was reported last night on the local news that the fate/moving of the fairgrounds was being voted on today. They said if the vote went as expected the Miller/Valentine group would own it by the end of the year. Could this be a first step to get the football,soccer, lacrosse puzzle figured out??? Who knows, but it is fun to speculate

[DetroitFlyer]

UD mum so far, but you know that they must be talking about it.

[UACFlyer]

One thing for sure, both UD and MVH have a vital stake in what happens to the Fairgrounds property, even if neither institution has use for the land.

So long as Miller-Valentine is in the loop, I think both UD and MVH interests will be protected.

UD has an interesting problem. It now has plenty of land,....more than it needs....; but the land isn't where UD would like it to be. The best place for a soccer, FB, LAX complex is on/near Baujan Field. But, the land there falls short by several acres.

To move FB from WS but still have it removed from the core campus area is not a very satisfying solution, in my opinion. Could an attractive complex be located at the corner of Brown and Stewart without detracting from the appearance of the main campus? Don't know.

In the Master Plan that location is designated for an arts center. But, there has been no talk about an arts center for ~ 2 years; and quite a bit of money has been invested in CPC for fine arts.

There has been enough public discussion to make it clear what UD "wants" t do......what is also clear is that UD isn't yet close to figuring out how best to do it.

[chriscage]

What is GWOC?

[PIONEER 8]

I would not be opposed to seeing an athletic field complex at the fairgrounds site. Based on a conversation with an administrator I have heard that there are several "issues" with some of the on campus sites including a 6 foot diameter sewer line running through some of our existing on campus green space that would need to be moved at the cost of several million dollars. However, I think that the long term goal is to get invited to join the Big East and I think that we will need to improve some of our facilities to improve our odds (I was told that most Big East schools have women's lacrosse and that was a factor in our starting a program). I suspect that our administration is looking at the additional revenue that would go along with joining the Big East and weighing that against the costs of the new programs and facility upgrades. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Flyer Gramps]

Originally Posted by PIONEER 8 I would not be opposed to seeing an athletic field complex at the fairgrounds site...

I posted twice - about 2007 and again this year - that the fairgrounds site would be a good site for football. Keep it rolling!

[ud69]

My guess is that the city would prefer some revenue producing development on the site. GE compatible businesses, condo upscale housing, more medical buildings would be some possibilities. Athletic fields don't generate much for the city coffers. I still think Old River holds some possibilities for athletic fields and is the same distance from the main campus.

[Always Proud]

Originally Posted by Flyer Gramps I posted twice - about 2007 and again this year - that the fairgrounds site would be a good site for football. Keep it rolling!

I'm with you FG. If I've said it once, I've said it ten times. The fairgrounds IS close enough to campus to walk to. No matter how you slice the pie, the river is a divider for the campus.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by chriscage What is GWOC?

Sorry, forgot many of you have not been in Dayton for years. It is the main high school league that all the major suburbs (Kettering, Wayne, Springboro, Centerville, Northmont, Troy, Piqua, etc) are in.

[UACFlyer]

First, take note of the fact since the UD-GE deal was announced a few years ago....a deal highly favorable to GE....there has been no other party nabbed for the other ~ 17 acres that UD has designated for development.

I don't know how this would fly in Dayton, but retirement communities have sprung up around many campuses throughout the U.S. These can be stand-alone condos or multiple units, or both. The attraction is that proximity to a university offers a wide variety of attractions for seniors, e.g., sports, the arts, education,....a nice, stimulating environment.

With UD telling us that about 50% of its alums live in Ohio...and 25% in the Greater Dayton area, one would think that the appeal of a "university village" complex would be even greater than at most schools at which the alum base is more widely distributed.

Just a thought.

In my opinion, I think the main drawback facing Dayton and UD is the depressed economy of the region. If you live there you just don't notice it. But, when you don't, a visit to Dayton makes it quite apparent. Hopefully the midwest will be eventually recover and be able to regain its commercial/industrial mojo.

Whatever, living in very close proximity to UD would have great appeal for me.

(One last thought that many/most Priders might not think of: For many seniors (not all; but many) proximity to a major hospital complex is important. Think about that in the context of the Fairgrounds location.)

[ud69]

"UD has had no discussions"

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...grounds/ncHMc/

[mwflyer]

That's what Nick Saban and Roy Williams said...........

[chriscage]

Watching FCS quarter final from Fargodome. Not the usual college venue, almost like mini NFL site; city owned, but on campus. 19,000 capacity and deafening!

NDSU looks almost BCS level to me.

[DetroitFlyer]

Originally Posted by chriscage Watching FCS quarter final from Fargodome. Not the usual college venue, almost like mini e; city owned, but on campus. 19,000 capacity and deafening! NDSU looks almost BCS level to me.

Would probably give anyone in the FBS top 10 a run for their money. The Fargo Dome looks like a cool place. I will be amazed if they do not win it all again.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer Would probably give anyone in the FBS top 10 a run for their money. The Fargo Dome looks like a cool place. I will be amazed if they do not win it all again.

Was in Fargo visiting my daughter for Thanksgiving and got to go to the NDSU-South Dakota game. It was 5 below, the tailgate was packed, Stands full, it was a blowout pretty much like todays game. That place is unique, it was fun to watch their fans. They are very serious about their Bisons.

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

Does the Olsen Training complex, bringing more and more of teams back to campus mean that mens football moved up in line, maybe next in line!

I hope they do it right and not set the bar too low for a very deserving program

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by AndersonTwpFlyer Does the Olsen Training complex, bringing more and more of teams back to campus mean that mens football moved up in line, maybe next in line! I hope they do it right and not set the bar too low for a very deserving program

Take a look at an aerial view of campus and ask yourself, "Where would I put a FB stadium?"

A location for women's LAX has yet to be decided.

A fb stadium w/ seating for about 5000 requires roughly 4 acres, minimum (not counting parking space). Maybe a portion of the NCR acquired property could be used; but that would be at the expense of soccer/band practice fields.

UD has the acreage...but not necessarily where you would want to site a fb field.

UD will figure it out and surprise us.

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

I think we need to think a little bigger than 5,000, Maybe 7,000 - 8,000.
You never want to go short. When you have all the construction elements on site, the cost to add the last 2,000 is at the lowest.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by AndersonTwpFlyer I think we need to think a little bigger than 5,000, Maybe 7,000 - 8,000. You never want to go short. When you have all the construction elements on site, the cost to add the last 2,000 is at the lowest.

When you're drawing 2500-3000 and haven't had 5000 in the seats in a very long time, why go to 7000+?

A crowd of 3500-4000 in a 5000 seat venue looks like a full house...in a 7000+ venue the place is half empty.

I wonder what UD really is thiking about relocating football. Maybe their not thinking about it at all. Still no word on a LAX site.

Some Prider must be close to the action. Chris?

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

There is going to be drastic change in NCAA / BCS college football in the next few years.

The MAC / Conf USA schools are going to continue to fall behind the BCS programs. There will be new tiers of football created as schools sort through the new environment. Football is still the most popular sport in America.

The Pioneer League Model may become very popular with new rivals created. Being the biggest fish in the small pond is not all that bad. Playing few up games with the next level (whatever that level plays out to be) I think will become common. Hosting those games would be HUGE.

Build it big with room to grow.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by AndersonTwpFlyer There is going to be drastic change in NCAA / BCS college football in the next few years. The MAC / Conf USA schools are going to continue to fall behind the BCS programs. There will be new tiers of football created as schools sort through the new environment. Football is still the most popular sport in America. The Pioneer League Model may become very popular with new rivals created. Being the biggest fish in the small pond is not all that bad. Playing few up games with the next level (whatever that level plays out to be) I think will become common. Hosting those games would be HUGE. Build it big with room to grow.

Where?

[Gem City]

UD purchased Old River. They have plenty of room. Old River Park hosts a huge select soccer tournament every year. There is plenty of room. With that said, I don't see a new football facility being built anytime soon.

[DetroitFlyer]

At the reunion this past weekend I heard from two diverse and high level sources that the discussion for a "stadium" at the location of Baujan Field is an active discussion.

[NEOFlyer]

Detroit Flyer... I had heard the same thing about Baujan. Part of the project was to include tearing down the Music and Theater Bldg. An on campus field would hopefully attract more of the students.

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

With last years Youngstown State Game and some of the other play up games by Pioneer schools, I think we get a good feel for the separation between the fully funded (Scholarships) FCS schools and non-scholarship schools. As I stated before, I feel that space will narrow in the very near future.

Of all the teams sponsored by the UD athletic department, only football delivers a entire roster of tuition paying students. I think the administration owes the team the chance to play in a top notch venue that can attract a play up home game.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer At the reunion this past weekend I heard from two diverse and high level sources that the discussion for a "stadium" at the location of Baujan Field is an active discussion.

Originally Posted by NEOFlyer Detroit Flyer... I had heard the same thing about Baujan. Part of the project was to include tearing down the Music and Theater Bldg. An on campus field would hopefully attract more of the students.

Guys, tearing down the music building will happen no matter what. That is in the Master Plan.

But, take a look at an aerial view of the site and imagine the music buildling is gone. Then try to envision a layout for a soccer and a FB field, incl seats. I just don't see the space.

UD has said that FB will not come at the expense of soccer. I take that to mean that FB and soccer cannot/willnot share a field. Then there is LAX.

Baujan can be improved dramatically for top-tier soccer in the ways Chris has often outlined. Soccer needs better lockers, better everything. Space for that is provided by the music building.

But, where does FB go?

[DetroitFlyer]

FB and LAX to Baujan, soccer to?

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer FB and LAX to Baujan, soccer to?

...and there is room on the NCR property where soccer practice fields alrady are located.

But,....a big "but": Soccer is a UD flagship sport singled out for excellence. neither FB or LAX are. So, if soccer is relocated the investment in facilities had better be consistent with the desired top-tier Div 1 programs. And it had better not be too long a walk for students.

I'll bet Chris knows what's going on.

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

I have little knowledge of NCAA Div 1 soccer. I can not remember ever seeing a large (5,000+) soccer only stadium on a college campus. I have been to most Big 10 schools along with Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Xavier, UK, Louisville.

I have never attended a UD soccer game but I played and attend one UD football per year. How big a venue does UD soccer require? How many people attend UD soccer games now?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[NEOFlyer]

Anderson -- see the attached. Looks like an average of well less then 1000 per game (that's both home and away games).

http://www.daytonflyers.com/cumestat...soc&year=2013&

[Always Proud]

Not to be a jerk, but the stats from above hardly support the notion that "Soccer is a UD flagship sport singled out for excellence". The admin is not shy about tooting the horn when the f-ball program has all of the scholar recognition and APR rates. Unfortunately whatever is done, my son will gone off to the working world before anything will be built. I have never liked WS and never will.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Always Proud Not to be a jerk, but the stats from above hardly support the notion that "Soccer is a UD flagship sport singled out for excellence". The admin is not shy about tooting the horn when the f-ball program has all of the scholar recognition and APR rates. Unfortunately whatever is done, my son will gone off to the working world before anything will be built. I have never liked WS and never will.

Always Proud, UD's strategy developed by Ted Kissell....the first athletic strategy ever for UD,....identified sports such that UD was able to compete at the national level: men's/women's BB, men's/women's soccer and volleyball.

Primary investment would be made in these sports. It has nothing to do with attendance. And, it does not reflect poorly on any other sports. It just recognizes the reality that in sports other than those identified for excellence it is not possible for UD to compete at the very highest level of Div 1 athletics. Think about it that way.

	Ted Kissell TED KISSELL Athletic Director at the University of Dayton from 1993-2008. Helped spearhead a renewed commitment to athletic excellence by hiring Oliver Purnell to resurrect the men's basketball program, and emphasized major non-revenue sports to raise UD's profile. Helped UD receive an invitation to the A10 Conference, developed new baseball, softball, soccer, football, and basketball facility upgrades, and achieved NCAA appearances in men's basketball, men's and women's soccer, and volleyball -- the latter three being program's firsts. Also served as UD's Vice President and improved overall academic performance among student athletes.

[DetroitFlyer]

Originally Posted by Always Proud Not to be a jerk, but the stats from above hardly support the notion that "Soccer is a UD flagship sport singled out for excellence". The admin is not shy about tooting the horn when the f-ball program has all of the scholar recognition and APR rates. Unfortunately whatever is done, my son will gone off to the working world before anything will be built. I have never liked WS and never will.

Yep, soccer is cheap. Women's volleyball is cheap. Basketball is cheap. Any sport that does not require a high number of athletic scholarships is considered to be cheap and something that UD can compete in on a national level. Not really a strategy, just the economic reality. Clearly demonstrated by the large number of "Division I" basketball programs.... Baseball and softball most likely do not award the maximum number of athletic scholarships as those sports are typically dominated by warm climate schools that can play year round. Many associated with UD think that we should all just be glad that UD still has football. (I am!). Many "peer" schools do not. Football at schools like UD is a victim of Title IX. If you provide 63 athletic scholarships, (or 85 at an FBS level), then you also have provide that many scholarships for women's sports.... Not easy to do as virtually all women's sports lose money. So unless you have a money making machine for a football program, it just is not going to happen. Now, having said that, it is hard to understand how schools like Wofford and Furman manage to keep athletic scholarship football. Neither school has any program that generates big bucks. At least we have men's basketball.... So, if the desire is there, in spite of the financial impact, it can be done....

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer Yep, soccer is cheap. Women's volleyball is cheap. Basketball is cheap. Any sport that does not require a high number of athletic scholarships is considered to be cheap and something that UD can compete in on a national level. Not really a strategy, just the economic reality. Clearly demonstrated by the large number of "Division I" basketball programs.... Baseball and softball most likely do not award the maximum number of athletic scholarships as those sports are typically dominated by warm climate schools that can play year round. Many associated with UD think that we should all just be glad that UD still has football. (I am!). Many "peer" schools do not. Football at schools like UD is a victim of Title IX. If you provide 63 athletic scholarships, (or 85 at an FBS level), then you also have provide that many scholarships for women's sports.... Not easy to do as virtually all women's sports lose money. So unless you have a money making machine for a football program, it just is not going to happen. Now, having said that, it is hard to understand how schools like Wofford and Furman manage to keep athletic scholarship football. Neither school has any program that generates big bucks. At least we have men's basketball.... So, if the desire is there, in spite of the financial impact, it can be done....

A strategy based on economic reality and geography is a sound strategy.....which UD never had before TK.

Forget Title IX. No amount of money or effort will enable UD to be competitive at the "highest level of Div 1 football". Many schools in the power conferences are unable to do that. Very few of the FBS schools not in power conferences can do that. Money is not the issue.

And it is true that the warm weather sports are dominated by warm weather schools.....so heavy investment in those sports makes little sense.

It is also true that in the sports TK singled out for excellence and investment UD is most definitely able to compete at the very highest level, e.g., NCAA appearances and scheduling against the very best.

This is not a Title IX issue.

[DetroitFlyer]

Wow, UAC, you simply could not be more incorrect as to the impact of Title IX on college football, especially at private schools.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer Wow, UAC, you simply could not be more incorrect as to the impact of Title IX on college football, especially at private schools.

I understand perfectly the impact of Title IX. To suggest that if it were not for Title IX UD could compete at the national level is absurd.

Very, very few private schools for which money is no object can compete at the highest level of FBS FB. Many, many very well resourced public schools cannot. Look at the MAC and other non-power FBS schools. They struggle mightily to even be respectable...and money is not the issue.

I live 20 minutes from UConn....a school that is willing to, and is, spending money like it was water to be competitive at the highest level...against tough odds. Probably they will not succeed.

For a school like UD its not realistic to think it can compete at or near the top of FCS FB.

Big time FB has become a special entity that seperates it from all other college sports. The two very wealthy Catholic schools that play FBS FB struggle....as do all but a few private schools. This is not a Title IX issue and has little to do with money at all...although FBS is a money pit for the majority of schools.

DF, with all due respect, you love FB so much that you are blinded by the economic realities.

[DetroitFlyer]

So.... Do Furman and Wofford compete at the top of FCS?

[Always Proud]

This is off topic and could fall under another topic in the forum, but football at UD is likely profitable. If you have 105 kids on roster at $25K in tuition I would say $2.625 million is nice. That does not count room and board. Yes I know there are cost's associated with the program,professor salaries, etc. I realize not everyone pays full tuition (but it sounds like it is close), I would say they pay at least half, so let's go with $12.5K. That is $1.312 million. Add in the cost of tickets for the family. I would bet each family buy's at least two extra tickets to each game plus over priced concessions. So rough guess is another $250K. So now I start to see why UD does not want to have to pay for scholarships when they have kids willing to pay to play. I will close with one caveat. I do not have inside info to actual numbers that some may have. Therefore all this figures are for naught and the argument is null and void.

Now if they did invest and went after it like a fat man at a doughnut shop, I think we could compete at the FCS level. I agree, no chance, no how, no way at FBS level. We hung in at YSU and we will see what G-town brings. It's not like b-ball has been making a run every year. This may have been a fluke. They were about an inch from Craft making his last shot. Do not see where the other sports mentioned are making national sporting news.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Always Proud This is off topic and could fall under another topic in the forum, but football at UD is likely profitable. If you have 105 kids on roster at $25K in tuition I would say $2.625 million is nice. That does not count room and board. Yes I know there are cost's associated with the program,professor salaries, etc. I realize not everyone pays full tuition (but it sounds like it is close), I would say they pay at least half, so let's go with $12.5K. That is $1.312 million. Add in the cost of tickets for the family. I would bet each family buy's at least two extra tickets to each game plus over priced concessions. So rough guess is another $250K. So now I start to see why UD does not want to have to pay for scholarships when they have kids willing to pay to play. I will close with one caveat. I do not have inside info to actual numbers that some may have. Therefore all this figures are for naught and the argument is null and void.

I'm guessing accounting is not your profession Proud.

The tuition/board money derived from the 105 kids that play FB would be obtained by 105 that do not. You're making it sound as if UD's enrollment is increased by a net 105 because UD has a FB team.

FB costs UD roughly $1 million a year, give or take. And for that it gets a solid non-schollie, Ivy-type/level program. That's great...I'm all for it. But, it does cost money. Fortunately, UD has a place to play. For all the criticism, WS exists and is close to campus. What keeps the likes of Marquette, Xavier, Detroit et al from playing UD-style FB is an estimated $10 million in capital and start-up costs. If it was only the $1 million annual operating cost there would be many more programs like UD's.

As for sheer lunacy it would hard to top Villanova...a UD peer that plays FCS FB and gets soaked for ~$4-5 million in annual cost. Indicative of the fact that the quality of management of all schools is not the same (think Fordham), Villanova was all set to dive into FBS FB; but was saved by collapse of the Big East. Had VU made that move the initial investment was estimated (by VU) at $35 million, with many more millions in annual operating costs....in order to draw maybe 15-20,000 per game with no significant TV revenue. And but for the grace of God, they came very close to doing it!

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[Always Proud]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer I'm guessing accounting is not your profession Proud.

No it is not. I'm guessing diplomacy and the comprehension of the English language is not your expertise either. I did not say that if UD did not play football they would have 105 less students. The point was, there is money coming into the coffers due to the offering of FB. So it is not costing the athletic department and therefore the university anything. It likely leads to a profit. There are also unseen benefits of exposure of having a f-ball program that always is recognized for it's scholars. There "other" 105 kids would not bring this notoriety.
If for one moment you do not think UD has not and does not figure in what something costs and what they could be potentially losing in revenue you are mistaken. If they think they could make $3 million more a year without the expense of offering f-ball and admitting a different 105, think again. Every time I go to mass, money seems to be part of the sermon. UD is no different.

I'm not arguing my opinion any further. You have yours and I have mine...

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

I think we can all agree that "everything being equal" we all want UD to play championship level soccer & football.

"I hope that safisfactory facilities and Grant in Aid scholarships continue for the soccer program.

The football program is in a unique situation to improve its position as the BCS schools continue to break from non-BCS schools. As I said before being able to host a play up game with the next level (will the next level up be YSU, EKU or maybe even Kent, Akron, BG).

To host a game we will need (I am guessing) 8,000-9,000 seats with SRO room to sell. Welcome is never going to provide the environment to sell half those tickets. School founding fathers put football in the middle of campus for a reason, it is that kind of environment and history.

All decision will be based on funds available but I wonder if any of this enters the discussion!

[Flyer Dave]

I believe that the money for concessions go to the Dayton Public School system. I also hear (don't know if true or not) that U.D. pays a lot for upkeep of Welcome Stadium such as repaving the parking lot.

[PIONEER 8]

Originally Posted by Always Proud No it is not. I'm guessing diplomacy and the comprehension of the English language is not your expertise either. I did not say that if UD did not play football they would have 105 less students. The point was, there is money coming into the coffers due to the offering of FB. So it is not costing the athletic department and therefore the university anything. It likely leads to a profit. There are also unseen benefits of exposure of having a f-ball program that always is recognized for it's scholars. There "other" 105 kids would not bring this notoriety. If for one moment you do not think UD has not and does not figure in what something costs and what they could be potentially losing in revenue you are mistaken. If they think they could make $3 million more a year without the expense of offering f-ball and admitting a different 105, think again. Every time I go to mass, money seems to be part of the sermon. UD is no different. I'm not arguing my opinion any further. You have yours and I have mine...

Just for the record, I have talked to more than one school administrator (one is in the athletic department at Dayton and others were at other schools) as to why colleges continue to field football teams when they lose money (there are only a handful of schools at any level that cover their costs) and I was told that the studies show that you can increase your student enrollment by 20% if you have a football program. Therefore, the number of students added because UD has a football team is closer to 2,000 than 105. That is the reason you have seen a big increase in the last 10 years with schools starting up football programs (there are at least 5 new D2 programs in Ohio over that time and we have Stetson and Mercer joining the PL). I suspect it will get even more important in the future since the population of college age students is dropping and schools are trying to ramp up to keep what they have.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by PIONEER 8 ..... I was told that the studies show that you can increase your student enrollment by 20% if you have a football program. Therefore, the number of students added because UD has a football team is closer to 2,000 than 105......

You cannot be serious. UD receives over 16,000 applications for its freshmen class of ~ 2000. It does not want or need 2000 "added". In fact, it would be a disaster. Where does one get housing and facilities for an "extra" 20% students?

Some schools are in a squeeze for students. UD, most definitely is not one of them

We have a good FB program...but it operates in the red. like just about all others at any level.

[proudpapa]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer You cannot be serious. UD receives over 16,000 applications for its freshmen class of ~ 2000. It does not want or need 2000 "added". In fact, it would be a disaster. Where does one get housing and facilities for an "extra" 20% students? Some schools are in a squeeze for students. UD, most definitely is not one of them We have a good FB program...but it operates in the red. like just about all others at any level.

First of all, we know, or should know, that football is the bell cow of virtually every school's athletics program -- yes, even at Kentucky, and it isn't even a close call:

"What most people don’t understand is that every school is a football school. The amount of revenue that football can generate dwarfs even the greatest basketball programs," said Mark Nagel, associate professor in the sport and entertainment management department at the University of South Carolina. "Certainly the fans identify with what sport wins the most, but football just has the potential to make so much more money with attendance and television contracts."
Some of you may think that it can't be that way at Kentucky, but if you've been reading this blog, as well as others, you know otherwise. Here are the numbers:

The 2012-13 athletic budget approved in the summer by the UK Board of Trustees shows that football is slated to produce $27.6 million in revenue while spending $9.5 million — for a profit of $18.1 million.

By comparison, men’s basketball, even coming off a national championship, is projected to produce $20.8 million in revenue, while spending $12.6 million — for an $8.2 million profit.

Those are the only two profitable programs for the university. The other 20 sports lose a combined $11.6 million, according to the 2012-13 budget.

Now I am not the smartest guy, but what I do know is that most FBS football programs finance the other programs. Just saying! I'll bet if you check North Dakota State they are making money.
Posted via Mobile Device

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

I can say with extreme confidence that UD admin would be happy if football just paid for itself.

To be clear, All my prior posts to this Board are tied to NCAA football seeing drastic change. BCS schools are going to suck most (if not all) the big $$$ out of the game leaving the MAC & Conf USA schools rethinking their football model. Most if not all will continue to field a team (for all the reasons stated by others).

The playing field will level a bit for the non-scholarship vs fully funded scholarship programs. It will offer UD some opportunity for exposure in the most popular NCAA sport

[NEOFlyer]

Here is some interesting discussions on Welcome and UD from some of the locals. I was somewhat surprised by the wide range of opinions.

http://yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286095

[rollo]

In the past week I've received 2 emails from credible sources telling me that UD is looking to build a football stadium at or near the corner of Brown and Stewart St that will seat under 5000...which got me thinking...

...Oakwood is spending upwards of $3M to build a multi-purpose field at Old River...and Chaminade HS is spending another $2M to build an athletic field next to the HS in downtown.

So it's possible that in 5 years we'll have 3 new stadiums within 1 mile of each other.

Since these discussions have been going of for years, it seems to me all 3 of these groups should have put their collective heads together and built 1 facility for all 3 schools...

Just sayin'...and speculating...

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo In the past week I've received 2 emails from credible sources telling me that UD is looking to build a football stadium at or near the corner of Brown and Stewart St that will seat under 5000...which got me thinking... ...Oakwood is spending upwards of $3M to build a multi-purpose field at Old River...and Chaminade HS is spending another $2M to build an athletic field next to the HS in downtown. So it's possible that in 5 years we'll have 3 new stadiums within 1 mile of each other. Since these discussions have been going of for years, it seems to me all 3 of these groups should have put their collective heads together and built 1 facility for all 3 schools... Just sayin'...and speculating...

Re location and cost:

1. The master plan (always evolving) still shows a performing arts center right at the corner of Brown and Stewart. An aerial view of UD land west of Brown shows that there is ample space available.....but closer to Main would seem to be the likely spot, assuming plans for the art center have not been scrapped. Our new president will have something to say about this.

2. As for the cost, Fairfield U. recently completed a beautiful 3500 seat stadium for its nationally ranked LAX team. With UD in mind I've walked the grounds of FU's stadium......it's really attractive architechurally, an important issue for UD considering the location. The FU cost was ~ $11 million in CT's expensive gold-coast area....same stadium on OH would be about $9 million, in my opinion. UD still hasn't said anything about its once highly touted women's LAX program and/or where games would be played. Perhaps the program has been scrapped.

3. Sharing a stadium is not a good idea. Any UD stadium will be used for more than football.

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

If true??? The stadium size is too small

As I have said before, NCAA football is changing fast. I feel UD's non-schlorship model will be much more the norm and oportunities to play a home game with new rivals will be atractive!!!

[Avid Flyer]

I agree 3500 is way too small if they bring it back to the campus. I too agree many scholarship programs will downsize to the Dayton module, at least enough for their to be more teams to choose from. Still talk at SLU, X, Marquette etc wanting a football program. Believe they have club football not.

Put football back at Baujan field and build a new soccer field, La Crosse could use it as well. Got to look forward, landscape for football is changing mainly due to rising costs.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Stadium size that I heard being mentioned was 5000-7500.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan Stadium size that I heard being mentioned was 5000-7500.

Sounds about right. Maybe leave some expansion on the field goal ends for growth if needed.

[UACFlyer]

Re the FU stadium I've previously described...see the video link below.

The stadium cost $11 million and seats 3500.....about 2500 on the main side and 1000 on the other. If the stadium was symmetrical, i.e., 2500 on each side you would have the 5000 we've been talking about...for about another million, if that.

This stadium us very attractive architecturally inside and outside. One of similar design seating 5000-6000 would look the same and would like cost $10 million at mid-west prices.

http://www.collegecrosse.com/2013/4/...d-andy-copelan

[Avid Flyer]

Simplistic design, yet very attractive with what looks like a lot of room for growth. Personally would prefer the ends closed to keep cold air from coming up the bleachers.

Still feel no less than 5k seats with room for growth. Especially if we can get some old foes on the schedule if they should downsize their programs, or if some of the NBE decide to go football.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Simplistic design, yet very attractive with what looks like a lot of room for growth. Personally would prefer the ends closed to keep cold air from coming up the bleachers. Still feel no less than 5k seats with room for growth. Especially if we can get some old foes on the schedule if they should downsize their programs, or if some of the NBE decide to go football.

Having visited the FU stadium, it's very clear that the 3500 seat design could be easily scaled to 5000,...very, very easily....and/or to 6000-7500, with or without closing in the ends. While closing the ends would make the stadium more "comfortable", sitting in the end zone is not a desirable seat location.

Whatever, the FU design represents a good frame of reference re size and cost, in my opinion. For quite a lot less than $15 million UD could build a beautiful facility. It has to be functional and it has to look nice.

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

Slow day at work!

Any new news or inside scope in a new home for Flyer Football?

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Not news on the new football stadium, but I did find this quote from Neil Sullivan in an article this past week interesting.

"In basketballs [there it is in plural again], we fund our programs as well as any program in the country. We do the planes, the coaches salaries, the meals. We just opened up the $4 million Donoher Center. We’ve had two Power Five athletics directors come through (our facilities) and say, ‘This is as good as I’ve seen.’ We’ve had NBA scouts say this is as good as they’ve seen...

Sullivan makes it clear he’s not expecting championships in every sport. He knows UD can’t compete with, say, Stanford for a golfer or UCLA for a tennis player.

“What sports can we fund aggressively and have a chance to compete?” he asks. He answers with “volleyball, both soccers, our football program.”
- See more at: http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/on-yo....hj0lFHgI.dpuf

I don't recall football mentioned in this context before. Perhaps their success this year has helped to propel the program upward on the priority list.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[NYFLYERFAN]

Sounds promising.
Posted via Mobile Device

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

Still slow at the Office so I have time to reflect!

As I have stated before in previous posts NCAA football is changing! The class system of BCS, FBS, Div II, Div III will conform to a new world.

The Big FBS schools will take all the $$$ and separate themselves leaving UD's non scholly model much more the NORM. New leagues and rivals will emerge.

During my time in the program 79-80 UD was way ahead of the curve in converting only football to Div III while leaving all other sports Div I. We where the BIG Fish of Div III for a long time.

Build something nice allowing UD to be a BIG FISH in the new world of non BCS NCAA football

[NYFLYERFAN]

Still think offering academic , need based aid , and some sort of 5-10k grant would benefit pioneer league without bankrupting program. Could steal some student athletes from Patriot league schools. A nice on campus venue would also boost UD.
Posted via Mobile Device

[AndersonTwpFlyer]

I local Public High School in Cincinnati announced this week a remodel of the football stadium.

Among the itemized cost was $700,000 for field turf.

If the Brown & Stuart street rumors are true I would guess ( a total guess) the project would several million

Any news

[UDBrian]

Has anyone let North Dakota State know that the Flyers are coming after them? OR, will they continue to remain totally non scholarship?

[NYFLYERFAN]

Originally Posted by UDBrian Has anyone let North Dakota State know that the Flyers are coming after them? OR, will they continue to remain totally non scholarship?

I think time is right for UD and rest of pioneer football league to introduce some sort of equivalency to really help remain competitive vs Patriot,NEC and Ivy's. Not to mention when they reach post season. Go Flyers!
Posted via Mobile Device