Weight Training vs Weight Lifting

[rollo]

By virtue of the fact that we consistently get beaten to death on the low post, we need to re-examine the weight training program our basketball players are currently doing and institute a weight lifting program for our 4's and 5's and possible some 3's.

Let's keep in mind that NCAA basketball players aren't cross-country runners or tennis players on the side and that they don't need to be uber-flexible or gumbyish....let's also keep in mind that the current NCAA basketball officiating trend benefits the bigger, more physical teams....and let's finally keep in mind that UD can't compete with the tallest, fastest, strongest and most talented HS basketball players in the country and will have to settle for those that are a couple inches too short, a step slow or physically not fully developed and make the best of the situation.

Because of these facts and factors, it's my firm belief that the coaches and trainers need to realize that size matters...and we don't have much or enough of it.

We have an opportunity with Scott and Robinson to develop 2 humongous forces in the middle by getting them in the weight room and treat them like NFL lineman and not graceful ballarinas!

I loved those John Cheney horses at Temple that he used to park in the low post against us. They couldn't run, jump or dunk, but they could dominate the middle and force opponents outside. Add some perimeter players with some defensive passion and UD will be one step closer to becoming a contender.

But it won't happen until a year-round weight lifting program is strongly recommended.

[shocka43]

The only issue is the NCAA mandated time standards for practice and training in season.

The limits in season are 4 hours per day or 20 hours per week of Countable Athletic Activities...they include all mandatory practices, weight training, film sessions, and games...this isn't all inclusive.

FWIW...back in the day, the off season was where the gains were made in the weight room. Weight training in season was minimal, and done to basically maintain muscle mass and amp up conditioning.

During season, with time limits, travel limitations, scouting preparation, etc...time in the weight room is VERY limited.

For example, with 6 days available for basketball (NCAA requires 1 off day per week in season)...you have 2 games...that leaves 4 days for weight training...1 or 2 of those days could very well be tied to a travel day...with no available weight training resources on the road...that leave the team at you are now down to 2-3 days with any hopes of availability for weight training...

With that said...those 3 days that are available, you are limited in hours...those hours typically are better spent on drills, fundementals, game prep, scout team, conditioning, and scrimmaging...

In any event, we typically had 1 maybe 2 days in season where we even touched a weight. And in those days, it was timed, station, circuit training, prior to practice...typically no more than 30 minutes of your 2 hour practice...

As you well know....those circuit training sessions to keep mass, were intended to condition...that obviously isn't a training program conducive to building muscle mass.

It is what it is...and I believe the training program needs to bulk players...but that bulk of players needs to be built in the off season...not in season.

Now...all calendars can be adjusted a wee bit to allow for a few more weight sessions per week...but realistically...the day before your games are light practices with film and scout team prep...practices two days before a game are hard with the potential for weights. Very limited in season...limitless in the off season...that is if you hold players accountable with mandatory weigh in's and max out days.

[UDBrian]

If I'm not mistaken they already have a full time weight program. I think that one issue is the natural build of some players. They said on the Archie show Sunday that Josh had improved a lot with the past year of weight training. But, Josh is so thin naturally that he will never be a physical beast in the paint. And Devin is much much stronger and bigger than last year but he is also naturally pretty thin.

I agree about Robinson and Scott, they can improve substantially before next season

[rollo]

Shocka: I was thinking more about off-season weight lifting...once the season starts there are more important things to focus on (barely!). Plus, there's nothing preventing any player from working out on their own outside of their regularly scheduled practice times. Anyone can show up at the RecPlex and put in some extra work....or lifting.

Brian: That's exactly what I mean about 'training' vs 'lifting'. We currently weight train and with the exception of Chris Wright, it's not enough. For our big guys, lifting needs to become part of the new routine.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by rollo By virtue of the fact that we consistently get beaten to death on the low post, we need to re-examine the weight training program our basketball players are currently doing and institute a weight lifting program for our 4's and 5's and possible some 3's. Let's keep in mind that NCAA basketball players aren't cross-country runners or tennis players on the side and that they don't need to be uber-flexible or gumbyish....let's also keep in mind that the current NCAA basketball officiating trend benefits the bigger, more physical teams....and let's finally keep in mind that UD can't compete with the tallest, fastest, strongest and most talented HS basketball players in the country and will have to settle for those that are a couple inches too short, a step slow or physically not fully developed and make the best of the situation. Because of these facts and factors, it's my firm belief that the coaches and trainers need to realize that size matters...and we don't have much or enough of it. We have an opportunity with Scott and Robinson to develop 2 humongous forces in the middle by getting them in the weight room and treat them like NFL lineman and not graceful ballarinas! I loved those John Cheney horses at Temple that he used to park in the low post against us. They couldn't run, jump or dunk, but they could dominate the middle and force opponents outside. Add some perimeter players with some defensive passion and UD will be one step closer to becoming a contender. But it won't happen until a year-round weight lifting program is strongly recommended.

I have always said that for the 4/5 positions, the players need to spend as much time in the weight room as they do the basketball court. We need to strengthen our 4/5 players, no doubt.

[hoch21]

If players would lift on their own that would be the best. The Archie show showed Dillard benching 145 and struggling. These guys need to become dedicated and want to develop, not be told they should.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TommyGola]

Flyers up by 11 after a series of turnovers by the 49ers. Khari Price changes the whole chemistry of this team with his defense. He is playing despite his extended layoff.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[TommyGola]

Khari Price with a huge 3 at the buzzer. That kid is a money player. Our season would have been far better had he been healthy. I can't believe he is playing this well after sitting out for a month.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by rollo Shocka: I was thinking more about off-season weight lifting...once the season starts there are more important things to focus on (barely!). Plus, there's nothing preventing any player from working out on their own outside of their regularly scheduled practice times. Anyone can show up at the RecPlex and put in some extra work....or lifting.

I'm with you.

Off season during classes, myself and another guy used to hit the weight room after our 9 class and be in there from 1030 until almost noon every day during the week...then our "voluntary" (with a sign in sheet and coaches that just happened to walk in every day) from 330-430....then after dinner...a 1 1/2 to 2 hour open gym (that just happen to be in the view of the head coach's office window on the upper deck) with just guys in the program and sometimes some of the top tier intramural guys that had the ability...even in the off season, we had 4 hours plus of "voluntary" time. Point being...voluntary wasn't voluntary...unless NCAA compliance was snooping around.

It is a slippery slope in season, as you have to do enough to maintain strength without killing yourself...even on your own time.

The off season is a whole different story...and this season has been proof that the length and hops of a post player, isn't as necessary of a trait as a steady big that is durable and has a foundation that doesn't move.

I don't expect the players to do a whole lot on their own time in season unless it is spending a bit of time working on some skills. The season itself is hard as hell on the body and on time. When guys miss class for travel and games, there are some pretty serious academic commitments as well that have to be factored in. I am not making excuses by any means, but if you aren't recovered and fresh, you are in trouble...

With all of that said, I do agree that guys that lift hard in the off season, aren't going to be gassed if they get in a few hard lifts on their own in season. It isn't like a guy that gets back into the weights after not lifting for a year and can't move his arms the next day.

[SeasonTicketFan]

UD has a very extensive weight training program. I've known each of the last two strength and conditioning coaches. They are dedicated full time to basketball. The players get a lot of weight room during the offseason. Paul is on the bench for every game and I believe all of the road games. Mike and Paul each took weight conditioning very seriously. Mike and BG were accused of bulking players up too much. Kurt Huelsman, put on too much muscle too fast and had big problems his sophomore year.

Under BG and AM, you have seen a lot of players bulk up. DO is the best example on the squad. The strength coaches measure muscle, body fat, flexibility and more. The guy who bulked up the least is Josh who lost a year with the severe shoulder injury. That probably cost his career a lot.



Most high school programs have limited weight programs, so your biggest gains are made with freshmen. This year's freshman commented to me this summer how challenging it was. Pierre arrived late. The others were one campus all summer.

Feel free to contact Paul about his weight training program.

[rollo]

I am 100% NOT saying the weight trainers at UD aren't doing their job...they are!

What I am saying is that some of our players could elevate their game if they would weight LIFT...build mass...and lots of it.

As I said in the original post, the guards don't need weight LIFTING...but the 4's and 5's do.

Keep up the great work weight trainers...but our big men need to get much, much bigger. And that won't happen with weight training.

[cj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Zk2vUmjpk

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by hoch21 If players would lift on their own that would be the best. The Archie show showed Dillard benching 145 and struggling. These guys need to become dedicated and want to develop, not be told they should. Posted via Mobile Device

If he is struggling with 145, then that's on Dillard. My 5'9" and 120 pound kid (he's a HS senior) can bench 150 without issue - multiple reps.

Now if Dillard was shown on his 5th set of 30, that might be a struggle.

[Medford]

Personally, I hope Archie challenges Scott, Robinson & Gavs to hit the weight room and see which player can improve their squat and bench the most over the offseason. Basically make it a bear for opposing teams cutting thru the post as they bump off our interior players. Oliver fights as hard as he can, but he's basically a SF body playing PF and it shows. Benson just get shoved around constantly.

[Gazoo]

I can't say I agree. I'd rather have basketball players working on their basketball skills. I'd rather have a PF who can hit a 15 footer every time he's left alone (JB). I'd rather have a center who is so comfortable shooting that he's an 80% FT shooter (JR). I'd rather have a center who's such a good ball handler that he can use his high level of athleticism to face up and beat the other team's center off the dribble near the basket (Scott).

Skill is what wins us basketball games, not a few extra pounds inside the uniform.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying they NEVER enter a weight room, I'm asking would I rather have them double their weight room time and reallocate that time away from other basketball skills time, which is a significant time reallocation, in order to add 10 pounds of muscle they would otherwise not have?

JR does not become an all-American candidate by adding 20 pounds of muscle instead of 10, he becomes an all-American candidate by adding 10 pounds of muscle, a 15 foot jumper, a great FT%, a killer instinct for rebounds (can you say Ryan Perriman?), and an unstoppable fade-away. Which is more important? It's not the incremental 10 pounds of muscle, of that I'm sure.

We b**ch around here all the time that our players do not develop skills in the offseason. Well, count me as one of those who thinks skills development is FAR more important than the size of our players' chest and biceps. Give me 30 extra minutes per day of shooting over 30 extra minutes in the weight room.

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by Medford Personally, I hope Archie challenges Scott, Robinson & Gavs to hit the weight room and see which player can improve their squat and bench the most over the offseason. Basically make it a bear for opposing teams cutting thru the post as they bump off our interior players. Oliver fights as hard as he can, but he's basically a SF body playing PF and it shows. Benson just get shoved around constantly.

You will see a change next year on Scott and Robinson. Robinson added his wait by being lazy during the summer. If these 2 come back chiseled watch out

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by rollo By virtue of the fact that we consistently get beaten to death on the low post, we need to re-examine the weight training program our basketball players are currently doing and institute a weight lifting program for our 4's and 5's and possible some 3's. Let's keep in mind that NCAA basketball players aren't cross-country runners or tennis players on the side and that they don't need to be uber-flexible or gumbyish....let's also keep in mind that the current NCAA basketball officiating trend benefits the bigger, more physical teams....and let's finally keep in mind that UD can't compete with the tallest, fastest, strongest and most talented HS basketball players in the country and will have to settle for those that are a couple inches too short, a step slow or physically not fully developed and make the best of the situation. Because of these facts and factors, it's my firm belief that the coaches and trainers need to realize that size matters...and we don't have much or enough of it. We have an opportunity with Scott and Robinson to develop 2 humongous forces in the middle by getting them in the weight room and treat them like NFL lineman and not graceful ballarinas! I loved those John Cheney horses at Temple that he used to park in the low post against us. They couldn't run, jump or dunk, but they could dominate the middle and force opponents outside. Add some perimeter players with some defensive passion and UD will be one step closer to becoming a contender. But it won't happen until a year-round weight lifting program is strongly recommended.

We need our basketball players to do sport specific lifting. Having the 4's and 5's lift with the O-Line and D-lines at UD would do no good. Linemen need to do a lot of bench press because they need to be able to push somebody right in front of them. In basketball the only thing that the bench press would help is a chest pass. In basketball you will never reach straight out and push somebody away...thats a foul.

The important thing for basketball players are shoulders, their core, and their legs. Most of the pushing around in basketball is done by the legs and core. I know you like to see how many times a guy can put up 225, but that is not really needed for basketball. Besides, typically basketball players because of their long arms and their naturally slender build are at a disadvantage when it comes to the bench because they have to move the weight a farther distance. That is why the guys who can do the most on the bench typically have the biggest chests or shortest arms.

[rollo]

I'm bumping up this thread from Feb. 2013, because a number of people have commented that our bigs just aren't big enough.

I've been saying for years that they need to live in the weight room...and it appears I'm converting you all one at a time!

All Hail Rollo!

[Sea Bass]

what one needs to be a good post defender is core strength. It takes time and hard work to develop the core. It not fun doing core work (legs, butt, back, abs, etc).

[SeasonTicketFan]

DMO is a great example of bulking up. Paul did an outstanding job with him. So if Paul did it with DMO, why not everyone? Harder than it seems. You can't bulk every player. BG tried to bulk up Huelsman and it backfired. He became too bulky and injury prone.

Strength is not an issue for Scott. If you see him without a shirt, he is ripped.

It is easier if you can find someone who already has the frame and size. But if you are not in the top 2-3 leagues that is real hard.

Finding the right size big men is very, very hard. The A10 had some real quality post players this year. I think that is one reason the top of the league did so well.

UD will have 3 players to work on this summer.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan Strength is not an issue for Scott. If you see him without a shirt, he is ripped.

not the kind of strength that is needed. defending the post is about the lower half.

[rollo]

Bigger is better.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by rollo By virtue of the fact that we consistently get beaten to death on the low post, we need to re-examine the weight training program our basketball players are currently doing and institute a weight lifting program for our 4's and 5's and possible some 3's. Let's keep in mind that NCAA basketball players aren't cross-country runners or tennis players on the side and that they don't need to be uber-flexible or gumbyish....let's also keep in mind that the current NCAA basketball officiating trend benefits the bigger, more physical teams....and let's finally keep in mind that UD can't compete with the tallest, fastest, strongest and most talented HS basketball players in the country and will have to settle for those that are a couple inches too short, a step slow or physically not fully developed and make the best of the situation. Because of these facts and factors, it's my firm belief that the coaches and trainers need to realize that size matters...and we don't have much or enough of it. We have an opportunity with Scott and Robinson to develop 2 humongous forces in the middle by getting them in the weight room and treat them like NFL lineman and not graceful ballarinas! I loved those John Cheney horses at Temple that he used to park in the low post against us. They couldn't run, jump or dunk, but they could dominate the middle and force opponents outside. Add some perimeter players with some defensive passion and UD will be one step closer to becoming a contender. But it won't happen until a year-round weight lifting program is strongly recommended.

The need Rollo shoulders!