Let's not get ahead or too full of ourselves

[CE80]

This applies to a number of sub-topics on other threads: recruits, transfers, coaches, other programs, etc.

The Elite Eight run was fantastic. We all knew the fan base would explode in such an event. However, as has been pointed out, maybe one different result in one game, may have changed things completely. I enjoyed myself thoroughly over the past couple of weeks but one nice run with some key senior players does not change things overnight. I love the direction we are going and I believe the future is bright but let's keep things in perspective.

Go Flyers!

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 This applies to a number of sub-topics on other threads: recruits, transfers, coaches, other programs, etc. The Elite Eight run was fantastic. We all knew the fan base would explode in such an event. However, as has been pointed out, maybe one different result in one game, may have changed things completely. I enjoyed myself thoroughly over the past couple of weeks but one nice run with some key senior players does not change things overnight. I love the direction we are going and I believe the future is bright but let's keep things in perspective. Go Flyers!

Joking right. That statement could apply to any of the last 30 seasons. This time it came out on the right side. Getting ahead of ourselves....really...we are trying to catch up

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by CE80 This applies to a number of sub-topics on other threads: recruits, transfers, coaches, other programs, etc. The Elite Eight run was fantastic. We all knew the fan base would explode in such an event. However, as has been pointed out, maybe one different result in one game, may have changed things completely. I enjoyed myself thoroughly over the past couple of weeks but one nice run with some key senior players does not change things overnight. I love the direction we are going and I believe the future is bright but let's keep things in perspective. Go Flyers!

While reading this thread an amusing, graphic quote from Mr. WW comes to mind (and it's not his glowing critique of the kona coffee):

[Swampy Meadows]

UDBaby:

I have been waiting for the perfect situation to use that quote and you beat me to it.

Well played!

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows UDBaby: I have been waiting for the perfect situation to use that quote and you beat me to it. Well played!

Figured a pic of Mr. Wolf would be reminder enough of his amusing mockery than than say a YouTube clip of the actual scene, which might've forced the Pride censors to use their delete button.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by UDBaby While reading this thread an amusing, graphic quote from Mr. WW comes to mind (and it's not his glowing critique of the kona coffee):

I had to Google WW quotes. Yea, that is another way of putting it.

[dnutz77]

Originally Posted by CE80 This applies to a number of sub-topics on other threads: recruits, transfers, coaches, other programs, etc. The Elite Eight run was fantastic. We all knew the fan base would explode in such an event. However, as has been pointed out, maybe one different result in one game, may have changed things completely. I enjoyed myself thoroughly over the past couple of weeks but one nice run with some key senior players does not change things overnight. I love the direction we are going and I believe the future is bright but let's keep things in perspective. Go Flyers!

CE, I get what you are saying. Like I said all year, we need to wait until the horn sounds after the VERY LAST GAME before we claim that we are in for another mediocre year, that the coach needs to go, that the players don't like playing for the coach, etc. Regardless of what has happened in the past, each season is MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE from all the other seasons. Having said that, this year is OVER and the coaches/players are already working hard to get better for next season.

I absolutely agree that for the first time in a long time we (the program) appear to have a vision on what it takes to be successful and the players are seemingly buying into what AM is selling. Love it! The run to the E8 was awesome and long overdue, but a lot of folks don't comprehend how hard it actually is. To make a run like UD did in year 3 or AM's tenure means that AM had to hit the ground running on the recruiting trail, create a vision of where 'we' want the program to be, change the culture of one that settles for mediocrity to one that expects greatness (hardest part IMO), get the players to buy into his system, and get the players to EXECUTE his system.

IMO, AM is changing the culture of this program from top to bottom (admin, coaches, players, and from the oldest fan to the newest fan) and I believe that he has what it takes to sustain this type of success over a long period of time. We may not make a run to the E8 every year, but I believe that we will see a brand of basketball and achieve a high level of success that we haven't enjoyed here in a long, long time.

So for next year and beyond....one at a time.

Dnutz Out!

[Fudd]

I say we go ahead and get ahead of ourselves. What do we have to lose besides having to look at our own butts?

[DallasFlyer]

act like you've been here before right? I wasn't old enough to remember '84 so I think I'll just keep beating my chest like a gorilla. That cool?

[UDBaby]

If nothing else, we can all get a little ahead of ourselves over the capital that UD and AM have earned in the run to the Elite 8. How they spend that capital will be the real test of their mettle.

The '84 team, their run to the Elite 8 and Coach Donoher was a little different in that Coach DD had already earned his stripes at UD and in the college hoops community by that point. The Elite 8 was more like the icing on the cake....and history showed that it didn't help the program all that much.

AM has a rare opportunity in UD hoops history to carve out a much bigger name for himself and the program by using the gravitas earned by advancing to the Elite 8 to achieve even more for himself and UD. Otherwise, this will indeed be another isolated and rare high point for UD hoops.

I'm betting that it isn't and that we all have great things to look forward to from AM and the Flyers.
(Now, can someone please refill my Cup A' Kool-Aid....I can't see a friggin' thing through these blue and red sunglasses.)

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[John C.]

We will know what the run did for us in the next 8 months. There are at least 4 scholarships to fill. Who fills those will tell us if the run meant a whole lot. If we have another run to the Sweet 16, then we are talking another animal.

[swish61]

I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. However, if you look at what has transpired over the year, it is plain for me to see that our Coaching Staff is really focused on their jobs.
Examples:

1) Devin Oliver improved his three point shooting this year dramatically.

2) Devon Scott had appeared to me to be surly, and quite immature last year, as well as incredibly inconsistent on the court. This year his play improved greatly, but what impressed me the most was his joyful attitude, and much more mature approach to life. I feel he is going to blossom into a great leader for this team with the help of the Coaches.

3) Jordan Sibert has been made to feel at home this year, and has obviously been coached into lettin it fly, and it saved our bacon more that once. Just look at the opening home game when he won it with a last second three. That was starters. He kept getting better.

4) After we lost 5 out of six to start conference, our Coach had the wisdom enough to look inside, and make his own changes to get things turned around. Timely introspection, at that point, helped make this all happen! And I'm thinking HE is coachable. No doubt his Father and Brother , and maybe Wife, were in his ear and he LISTENED.

5) Matt Kavanugh kept getting better all year

6) Where did Kendall Pollard get the confidence that allowed him to explode against a team like Syracuse?

7) A super young point guard by the name of Scoochie has developed so fast that we now have two seasoned, exceptional point guards.

I could go on. I'm hoping the point is clear, Archie is really a good Coach, and has really good Assistants.
I am confident now that we are on the right track.

[UD90]

Originally Posted by John C. We will know what the run did for us in the next 8 months. There are at least 4 scholarships to fill. Who fills those will tell us if the run meant a whole lot. If we have another run to the Sweet 16, then we are talking another animal.

Don't we just have two to fill? We have the guard from Detroit and the big from Indiana committed - right?

As far as success - I just want to get to the dance each year and finish in the top 4-5 of the A10. If we can stay in the Top 5 and make the NCAA winning a game or more 3 out of 5 years I'll be happy.

[John C.]

Two this year, two next year. All could/should be done by November.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by UD90 Don't we just have two to fill? We have the guard from Detroit and the big from Indiana committed - right?

Since he mentioned the next eight months I assume he is talking about the two we have now and the two we will have next year (Sibert and Gav), which could be filled in the fall.

[Fudd]

I would just like us to keep doing well enough that the fans in the New Big East have to keep coming up with convoluted reasoning that proves they have better programs than us while we keep out-performing them in the big dance.

Right now, their angle is that average league RPI and Kenpom ratings trump tournament success. Desperate times........

[UD90]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Since he mentioned the next eight months I assume he is talking about the two we have now and the two we will have next year (Sibert and Gav), which could be filled in the fall.

Thank you. Didn't know how many we had open for sure.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by UDBaby If nothing else, we can all get a little ahead of ourselves over the capital that UD and AM have earned in the run to the Elite 8. How they spend that capital will be the real test of their mettle. The '84 team, their run to the Elite 8 and Coach Donoher was a little different in that Coach DD had already earned his stripes at UD and in the college hoops community by that point. The Elite 8 was more like the icing on the cake....and history showed that it didn't help the program all that much. AM has a rare opportunity in UD hoops history to carve out a much bigger name for himself and the program by using the gravitas earned by advancing to the Elite 8 to achieve even more for himself and UD. Otherwise, this will indeed be another isolated and rare high point for UD hoops. I'm betting that it isn't and that we all have great things to look forward to from AM and the Flyers. (Now, can someone please refill my Cup A' Kool-Aid....I can't see a friggin' thing through these blue and red sunglasses.)

The big difference will be that the landscape was chaning big time with college hoops, national TV and a faster pace game. DD was against the national TV calling timeouts and not hip to the new fast paced game. Archieve is right in the thick of things with the present landscape and how it is evolving. DD at 25 years and AM at 3 years experience and growing.

Both were the right men for the job at the time, no regrets.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

While I have been very critical of AM's defensive Y scheme, I have been willing to give him credit for player development. I think we should be encouraged that UD made the Elite 8 run with a couple of critical seniors that were not AM recruits, and they both improved their play under AM. Of course, I'm talking about DMO and Kavs. That says a tremendous amount about this staff's ability to develop players. We'll have to see if his recruits are filling the necessary holes and whether AM has the foresight to recruit to needs. However, we should all take comfort in his ability to make players better. Now, about that defensive side of things....well....I'll save that for another thread.

[dnutz77]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer While I have been very critical of AM's defensive Y scheme, I have been willing to give him credit for player development. I think we should be encouraged that UD made the Elite 8 run with a couple of critical seniors that were not AM recruits, and they both improved their play under AM. Of course, I'm talking about DMO and Kavs. That says a tremendous amount about this staff's ability to develop players. We'll have to see if his recruits are filling the necessary holes and whether AM has the foresight to recruit to needs. However, we should all take comfort in his ability to make players better. Now, about that defensive side of things....well....I'll save that for another thread.

I actually think that since the StJ buzzer beater at UD Arena, their individual and team defense continued to improve and fueled their run. At SJ was a debacle, but they obviously had our number this year. Like I said, though, I was very impressed with how our guys played D down the stretch. Night and day compared to last year and earlier this year.

Think I remember AM mentioning how they tweeked some of the off ball defensive technique to help the guys play better D. This is yet another + in that the guys improved GREATLY on a glaring weakness.

Love the progress!!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer The big difference will be that the landscape was chaning big time with college hoops, national TV and a faster pace game. DD was against the national TV calling timeouts and not hip to the new fast paced game. Archieve is right in the thick of things with the present landscape and how it is evolving. DD at 25 years and AM at 3 years experience and growing. Both were the right men for the job at the time, no regrets.

At the time DD was at 20 years. I think the biggest difference and the reason why the Flyers didn't cash in on recruits after 1984 was because they were independent back then. That really was the root of why the Flyers' status changed so drastically in the 70s on. They refused to go to a conference when everyone else was.

Also, playing for a coach that went 10 years between dances, well, I'm sure that isn't a great selling point either.

[AQUDXU]

Originally Posted by CE80 This applies to a number of sub-topics on other threads: recruits, transfers, coaches, other programs, etc. The Elite Eight run was fantastic. We all knew the fan base would explode in such an event. However, as has been pointed out, maybe one different result in one game, may have changed things completely. I enjoyed myself thoroughly over the past couple of weeks but one nice run with some key senior players does not change things overnight. I love the direction we are going and I believe the future is bright but let's keep things in perspective. Go Flyers!

Last year UD lost every close game. That's not normal and as a result, we did not have to improve very much to get a much better record. That being said, I can't think of another team in college basketball that was almost as close to the Final Four as they were 1 and done in the NIT. (I think Kemba Walker's 2011 UConn team would have won a game or 2 in the NIT)

The OP is totally correct that most on this board are elevating the program way above where it really is and making it seem like we didn't need any bounces to go our way to reach the E8. A whole lot had to go our way.

Here are this year's close games (and we need every win to get in):

IPFW - we all know this story

Gonzaga - up 3 and they get a wide open look from 3 with :09 to go from a guy that can make it. It doesn't go in. Kahri gets the rebound. This totally changes the season. This goes the other way and we play Chaminade and are hanging our Maui hats on a win over Arkansas.

Bayor - VS misses the shot he makes vs tOSU. DO misses a put back he usually makes. Reality here is a win is probably neutral to our getting a bid.

USC - we botch both the end of regulation and OT. Get beat on a long 3 at the buzzer. A win here helps to not keep us out but only if you also get...

Ole Miss - DO banks in a 25 footer at the buzzer in OT. And I don't think he called the bank. Hard to say as Larry and Bucky were a tad excited.

SJU 1.0 - Galloway banks in a 3 from 23 feet falling away at the buzzer without pushing off. a win her instead would erase either...

SBU - 3 point win. down 5 with @ 4 to go.

OR

DUQ - down 18 in the 2nd half. down 12 at the under 8 TO. Duquesne literally misses every shot the rest of the game (they made 3 FTs) for a UD 3 point win. NOTE: DUQ got 2 shots off from 3 in the last 5 seconds.

SJU 2.0 - Galloway hits a late 3 pushing off for the win.

tOSU - VS makes the shot he misses vs Baylor. Craft gets to within 6 feet of the basket and his shot rims out. Need both to happen for the E8 run.

SU - Forget that Ennis got a 3 off at the buzzer that could have beat us. How about that awful 3 Schoochie put up that hit the back flange like a 50lb dumbell, died, and fell through the strings???!!!??? Or the the next time down the floor Gbemije was wide open in the corner. Feet set. Shoulders square. Gets the pass in the shooting pocket. Steps into his shot. Good form. Good rotation. Looks good the whole way. Rims out. We need both bounces to carry on.

We did take it to Stanford though.

The E8 is in the books. We'll hang the banner and sell it to everyone that'll listen and some that won't. But the same way that last year's team didn't need much improvement to get a much better result, this year's team can't afford to lose much for a much worse result.

Think to the 08-09 team. Won every close game. Got to the dance. Beat WV. 09-10, with everyone but Little and Lowry's right knee back, lost most of those close games and went to the NIT.

The banner will still look good.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[UDBaby]

Originally Posted by AQUDXU Last year UD lost every close game. That's not normal and as a result, we did not have to improve very much to get a much better record. That being said, I can't think of another team in college basketball that was almost as close to the Final Four as they were 1 and done in the NIT. (I think Kemba Walker's 2011 UConn team would have won a game or 2 in the NIT) The OP is totally correct that most on this board are elevating the program way above where it really is and making it seem like we didn't need any bounces to go our way to reach the E8. A whole lot had to go our way. Here are this year's close games (and we need every win to get in): IPFW - we all know this story Gonzaga - up 3 and they get a wide open look from 3 with :09 to go from a guy that can make it. It doesn't go in. Kahri gets the rebound. This totally changes the season. This goes the other way and we play Chaminade and are hanging our Maui hats on a win over Arkansas. Bayor - VS misses the shot he makes vs tOSU. DO misses a put back he usually makes. Reality here is a win is probably neutral to our getting a bid. USC - we botch both the end of regulation and OT. Get beat on a long 3 at the buzzer. A win here helps to not keep us out but only if you also get... Ole Miss - DO banks in a 25 footer at the buzzer in OT. And I don't think he called the bank. Hard to say as Larry and Bucky were a tad excited. SJU 1.0 - Galloway banks in a 3 from 23 feet falling away at the buzzer without pushing off. a win her instead would erase either... SBU - 3 point win. down 5 with @ 4 to go. OR DUQ - down 18 in the 2nd half. down 12 at the under 8 TO. Duquesne literally misses every shot the rest of the game (they made 3 FTs) for a UD 3 point win. NOTE: DUQ got 2 shots off from 3 in the last 5 seconds. SJU 2.0 - Galloway hits a late 3 pushing off for the win. tOSU - VS makes the shot he misses vs Baylor. Craft gets to within 6 feet of the basket and his shot rims out. Need both to happen for the E8 run. SU - Forget that Ennis got a 3 off at the buzzer that could have beat us. How about that awful 3 Schoochie put up that hit the back flange like a 50lb dumbell, died, and fell through the strings???!!!??? Or the the next time down the floor Gbemije was wide open in the corner. Feet set. Shoulders square. Gets the pass in the shooting pocket. Steps into his shot. Good form. Good rotation. Looks good the whole way. Rims out. We need both bounces to carry on. We did take it to Stanford though. The E8 is in the books. We'll hang the banner and sell it to everyone that'll listen and some that won't. But the same way that last year's team didn't need much improvement to get a much better result, this year's team can't afford to lose much for a much worse result. Think to the 08-09 team. Won every close game. Got to the dance. Beat WV. 09-10, with everyone but Little and Lowry's right knee back, lost most of those close games and went to the NIT. The banner will still look good.

And? Not sure I understand the point?

Are you saying that the Flyers weren't quite as good as Elite 8....needed a few lucky bounces to get to Memphis? Okay. But that sure as shinola wasn't the entire reason the Flyers made it to the dance and advanced.

The cookie may crumble next year...always a possibility and for UD hoop fans no one would be surprised. But IMHO there are a lotta reasons to believe that there will be a good fortune in the Flyers fortune cookie going forward.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[priceg75]

We have been beaten down as a program for a long time with very few rays of sunshine. I think we all have it in perspective, and personally I am not interested in rehashing the numerous ways that we weren't as good as our run suggests.

Point is, we got to the Elite Eight more recently than Ohio State, Xavier, UC, Indiana, Butler, Gonzaga, and anyone from the Big East or Atlantic 10 for that matter. Next time they want to crap on us as a program, they can all go take a long walk off a short pier AFAIC.

Sure, we can revisit next year. But for now, I'm going to enjoy an offseason of unbridled optimism for once, instead of thinking of miracle ways this team can scrape into the tournament.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[AQUDXU]

Originally Posted by UDBaby And? Not sure I understand the point? Are you saying that the Flyers weren't quite as good as Elite 8....needed a few lucky bounces to get to Memphis? Okay. But that sure as shinola wasn't the entire reason the Flyers made it to the dance and advanced. The cookie may crumble next year...always a possibility and for UD hoop fans no one would be surprised. But IMHO there are a lotta reasons to believe that there will be a good fortune in the Flyers fortune cookie going forward.

You make your own luck/bounces a lot of the time.

I guess my point is to not solely focus on the end result.

Last year's team didn't make the NIT. To go from that to to an E8 is taking about 10 steps forward.

We didn't take 10 steps forward as a program this year, but because of the close losses, 2 steps forward can show up as 10 in the results.

If next year's team doesn't make the E8 for Final Four, is the program taking a step backwards? I think not.

We can actually take a step forward next year and find ourselves in the NIT Final Four. And we should be open minded as a fan base to accept that as a step forward.


ASIDE: I don't think we're going to the NIT next year.

[Flyer69ers]

We're going to Puerto Rico in November.
That's my looking ahead.