#21: And for me a mental Game Changer

[UD_Earl]

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45eleeg/just-missed/

In the past I have often wondered where we fell on this list. It always seemed to me that we should be close. I think as a UD fan, mentally I have always placed us below the better/higher level power five type teams, but above most if not all mid-majors. Kind of in the upper middle - a program that was known by those who know basketball, but not by all casual type fan around the country. That was magnified in my mind by exclusion from being invited to the Big East. But then it changed for me a bit last year with the Elite 8 run - you know, why not us, we have everything we need to be a true power program. Now, with almost not making it into the field of 68, I was thinking wow, can we ever get any respect. And then finally today I see this, that we are the 21st "most valuable" program. This should show what we all know. We are a power program. I truly think we are on the cusp of becoming a National program again. There is no reason, NON AT ALL, that this cannot happen. We are a destination program in the making. Let's hope for another run starting tomorrow which will further solidify the program in the minds of those out site of our Flyer Nation family. Goooo Dayton Flyers.

[The Gem]

I hope you are right, and maybe you are.
I first started following UD in the mid 1970's. I remember the adults back then (I turned 10 in 1976. I am 48 to save you the math) would always talk about how UD used to be a national power. When I first started hearing that, the Final Two run was not even 10 years past.

I thought UD was back in 1984 and 1985 when we made the NCAA two years in a row and an Elite 8 run. I would be a freshman in the fall, it was very exciting. Little did I know, mediocrity was right around the corner.

Then we fired our coach who seemed stuck in the past (I was 100% in favor of that at the time) and got a new, young coach who didn't resist the changes in the game, he led us to an MCC title and the NCAA, the good times were back. Never mind, mediocrity looked pretty good by the time JOB got pink slipped.

Then we hired OP with his proven track record of rebuilding teams. He did it, UD was even a little better than mediocre. Then he was off for a new challenge at Clemson, and we hired another young coach, with a great pedigree and a great track record with recruiting. He brought in the type of athlete I'd never seen in a UD uniform before. The glory days are back for sure, I thought. BG did a great job of making UD NIT regulars though.

Now we have Archie. He's done a great job so far, and maybe the glory days are already back. After almost 40 years, excuse me for being a bit jaded. Sometimes I wonder why I put myself through all this.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by The Gem I hope you are right, and maybe you are. I first started following UD in the mid 1970's. I remember the adults back then (I turned 10 in 1976. I am 48 to save you the math) would always talk about how UD used to be a national power. When I first started hearing that, the Final Two run was not even 10 years past. I thought UD was back in 1984 and 1985 when we made the NCAA two years in a row and an Elite 8 run. I would be a freshman in the fall, it was very exciting. Little did I know, mediocrity was right around the corner. Then we fired our coach who seemed stuck in the past (I was 100% in favor of that at the time) and got a new, young coach who didn't resist the changes in the game, he led us to an MCC title and the NCAA, the good times were back. Never mind, mediocrity looked pretty good by the time JOB got pink slipped. Then we hired OP with his proven track record of rebuilding teams. He did it, UD was even a little better than mediocre. Then he was off for a new challenge at Clemson, and we hired another young coach, with a great pedigree and a great track record with recruiting. He brought in the type of athlete I'd never seen in a UD uniform before. The glory days are back for sure, I thought. BG did a great job of making UD NIT regulars though. Now we have Archie. He's done a great job so far, and maybe the glory days are already back. After almost 40 years, excuse me for being a bit jaded. Sometimes I wonder why I put myself through all this.

That coach who seemed "stuck in the past" was inducted into the basketball hall of fame. He wasn't the problem- the UD administration was. They resisted conference affiliation opting to stay independent far past the point of return. X was years ahead of UD in this regard which is why to this day UD has been amost always a step behind (including inclusion into the NBE). I've been following UD since I was a 6 year old in 1967 and can tell you this; this is the first coach SINCE Don Donoher that shows true coaching ability and leadership. We are lucky to have him as we were lucky to have Don Donoher.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Viperstick]

I remember the first time I went to UD Arena in the early 70s. I truly thought Dayton had an NBA team, not because of how we played (we actually lost), but because of the atmosphere of that 13,000+ seat Arena.

We wouldn't have that atmosphere today were it not for Tom Frericks, but we also wouldn't have 4-26, 6-21, 7-20 without him either. Sad that such a storied program had to go through that early-mid '90s period, but I'd like to believe we learned something from it and are poised for a return to greatness as a result.

UD appears to have the building blocks in place to become another Gonzaga or Butler. Hopefully we'll respond to adversity the same way those other two peer programs have.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Viperstick I remember the first time I went to UD Arena in the early 70s. I truly thought Dayton had an NBA team, not because of how we played (we actually lost), but because of the atmosphere of that 13,000+ seat Arena. We wouldn't have that atmosphere today were it not for Tom Frericks, but we also wouldn't have 4-26, 6-21, 7-20 without him either. Sad that such a storied program had to go through that early-mid '90s period, but I'd like to believe we learned something from it and are poised for a return to greatness as a result. UD appears to have the building blocks in place to become another Gonzaga or Butler. Hopefully we'll respond to adversity the same way those other two peer programs have.

Viperstick, I too am optimistic about the future for our Flyers. I was born in '62, saw a very small handful of games in the old Fieldhouse (maybe 3, at most), and have seen probably well over 500 games in the Arena. I saw the highs of '74 & '84, and the pits of '94. I agree that the building blocks should be there, but I was intrigued by the 2 teams you picked as our peers, for the following reason.

I don't dispute that these are peer programs. Other than the respective levels of success over the past 2 decades, they most certainly are in our peer group. But Gonzaga has basically done what they've done with the same coach (Mark Few started in 1999), in the same league (WCC). Butler, on the other hand, is in their 3rd league in 4 years, and has had 6 coaches since Few took over at Gonzaga. My point is, there's more than 1 way to have a successful program, and while I'd prefer to do it the Gonzaga way (i.e. please stay, Archie!), we need to be prepared to do it the Butler way if it comes to that.

Oh, well, gotta rest-up for the big game. 'Night, all.

T-Bone 84

[Matchmaker]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 That coach who seemed "stuck in the past" was inducted into the basketball hall of fame. He wasn't the problem- the UD administration was. They resisted conference affiliation opting to stay independent far past the point of return. X was years ahead of UD in this regard which is why to this day UD has been amost always a step behind (including inclusion into the NBE). I've been following UD since I was a 6 year old in 1967 and can tell you this; this is the first coach SINCE Don Donoher that shows true coaching ability and leadership. We are lucky to have him as we were lucky to have Don Donoher. Posted via Mobile Device

Can't agree with AM being the 1st coach since Donoher to deserve high praise. OP came in under terrible circumstances and resurrected the program. He put us back on the map. You could say he was/is a mercenary but he was here for 8 years in his prime. If I was AD at a smaller D1 school and needed a head coach I'd hire OP in a minute

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Matchmaker Can't agree with AM being the 1st coach since Donoher to deserve high praise. OP came in under terrible circumstances and resurrected the program. He put us back on the map. You could say he was/is a mercenary but he was here for 8 years in his prime. If I was AD at a smaller D1 school and needed a head coach I'd hire OP in a minute

If I had to rank our last five coaches, Oliver would be tied at number 3 with BG- though I'll admit Oliver had to resurrect UD but any decent coach could have done that. Let's face it - 4-26 is nearly the bottom of the pit. But neither him or BG had the success that we've already experienced with Archie- and Archie inherited a mess.
Obviously JOB is last and DD is first followed closely by Archie. Those top two could switch places and if it does I'd be ok with it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bat'71]

I may be too jaded at this point, but $10.5 Mil doesn't seem like much these days. What exactly is Forbes trying to measure when they place a value on a team and how do they ascertain that "value"?