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03-22-2023, 01:28 PM
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Well, that's two who could have come back.
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Mad Props to Jeff For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-22-2023, 01:28 PM
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Brigadier General
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But but but but Grant is back. All is well!
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03-22-2023, 01:32 PM
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Major General
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This one does not surprise me. There has been smoke about this one for awhile. Nowhere near the loss of Amzil in my opinion.
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03-22-2023, 02:02 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Maybe we have it all wrong and the players that are harder to replace will stay and the ones that are easier to replace will leave...2 for 2 so far.
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03-22-2023, 02:04 PM
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Here is a scholarship tree for all the A10 teams that I stumbled upon. It helps IMO to keep track of everybody.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...hl=en_US#gid=0
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03-22-2023, 02:21 PM
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This one is going to be very interesting. I can't wait to see where he winds up and I hope it's some program with at least similar competition as Dayton. I think RJ is going to excel and make non AG-apologists wonder why couldn't we get the same offensive consistency out of him here. Same with Amzil, though I think he's more limited due to his lack of speed.
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03-22-2023, 02:24 PM
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Amzil is a huge loss, and RJ can be replaced by someone better.
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03-22-2023, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
This one is going to be very interesting. I can't wait to see where he winds up and I hope it's some program with at least similar competition as Dayton. I think RJ is going to excel and make non AG-apologists wonder why couldn't we get the same offensive consistency out of him here. Same with Amzil, though I think he's more limited due to his lack of speed.
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Totally agree, I told my son many times AG held him back, if he just let him play like he could he would have 12-20 every game
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03-22-2023, 02:25 PM
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This one smarts and will leave a mark before his career is over.
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03-22-2023, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
This one is going to be very interesting. I can't wait to see where he winds up and I hope it's some program with at least similar competition as Dayton. I think RJ is going to excel and make non AG-apologists wonder why couldn't we get the same offensive consistency out of him here. Same with Amzil, though I think he's more limited due to his lack of speed.
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RJ's offensive strength, which in my opinion is slashing to the basket with and without the ball, is certainly not valued in our offensive system.
Which leads me to wonder why AG recruited him. Was it because he wanted a defense only oriented player or did he not evaluate him correctly and thought he would fit our offensive system?
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03-22-2023, 02:31 PM
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What we will never know but won't stop people from spinning it to meet their narrative (sounds like news channels) is was this RJ prompted or AG prompted.
I feel like Amzil was his choice and RJ likely was AG's but can't imagine we will ever know.
Welcome to the new normal. Coach can impact either way some but if you don't lose 3+ a year, you are way ahead of the curve.
Last edited by Marysville Flyer; 03-22-2023 at 02:33 PM..
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03-22-2023, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
This one is going to be very interesting. I can't wait to see where he winds up and I hope it's some program with at least similar competition as Dayton. I think RJ is going to excel and make non AG-apologists wonder why couldn't we get the same offensive consistency out of him here. Same with Amzil, though I think he's more limited due to his lack of speed.
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I agree on never seeing his offensive potential. I also think this is a bigger loss than most people realize. A healthy RJ was UD's best on ball defender for the last two years. I don't know what happened, if it was injury related and/or he and AG had a falling out but he was one of my favorite players. He did the dirty work, didn't need to score 20, was always diving on the floor.
He is not irreplaceable, nobody is but I really hope we get someone else with his skill set.
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03-22-2023, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
What we will never know but won't stop people from spinning it to meet their narrative (sounds like news channels) is was this RJ prompted or AG prompted.
I feel like Amzil was his choice and RJ likely was AG's but can't imagine we will ever know.
Welcome to the new normal. Coach can impact either way some but if you don't lose 3+ a year, you are way ahead of the curve.
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RJ was a starter. One that Grant showed much confidence in. Then he was on the bench and now he's leaving. I'm going to out on a limb here and say this one was on RJ. Whether it was a big FU to Grant at some point during the season, or now, RJ initiated this. Grant still used him lots of minutes to the end. A coach doesn't do that and say "We don't need you any longer". Grant has shown that if he wants someone out of here, he doesn't put them on the court.
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03-22-2023, 02:49 PM
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With multiple new people on team next year we’ll be a dumpster fire since all I heard few years ago is how hard AGs system is to learn
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03-22-2023, 02:54 PM
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Expected this one....
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03-22-2023, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
With multiple new people on team next year we’ll be a dumpster fire since all I heard few years ago is how hard AGs system is to learn
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I am not saying we won't be a dumpster fire next year, but I think things are way different than they used to be. The silver lining take on this is "there are minutes o'plenty available in Dayton, or 7 a game at Kentucky." It all starts with one guy...
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03-22-2023, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Amzil is a huge loss, and RJ can be replaced by someone better.
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Amzil is not a huge loss. I'm going to miss him, but he had lots warts and we were not going win with or because of him whether Deuce and Camara stayed or left. Amzil is very replaceable from what he contributed here. So was RJ. The question is are they going to show that they could produce a lot more with a program with equal or better competition?
RJ should be more like Chris Johnson IMO. And I have a feeling we're going to see that out of him with a new and competent coach. And if we see big things out of Amzil, it'll be because he also has found a competent coach.
Your favoritism toward Amzil and Mike are over the top, so I don't expect anything else out of you.
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03-22-2023, 03:04 PM
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RJ has a bad handle. A really bad handle. That greatly limits his offensive game. He’s also very tentative. While some will bemoan his loss, he’s the poster child for mediocrity.
3 years and every year his fg% declined, his 3 pt % declined… he went 16/66 from 3 this year, far and away dead last on a bad 3pt shooting team.
Perhaps there is a strong bball school that wants a defensive specialist. More likely he plays at a MAC level school.
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03-22-2023, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
RJ has a bad handle. A really bad handle. That greatly limits his offensive game. He’s also very tentative. While some will bemoan his loss, he’s the poster child for mediocrity.
3 years and every year his fg% declined, his 3 pt % declined… he went 16/66 from 3 this year, far and away dead last on a bad 3pt shooting team.
Perhaps there is a strong bball school that wants a defensive specialist. More likely he plays at a MAC level school.
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I can think of a lot of guys that didn't score a ton, didn't shoot the 3 well, and were far from mediocre. Trey Landers and Kyle Davis say hello.
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03-22-2023, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
I can think of a lot of guys that didn't score a ton, didn't shoot the 3 well, and were far from mediocre. Trey Landers and Kyle Davis say hello.
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Also, RJ shot pretty good from 3 point land last year. So taking the worst of 2 seasons and saying "that's the real RJ"(I'm referring to Maddog no you) is not realistic.
Again, the coaching and style of play, and the execution left a lot to be desired this year. I think RJ is going to excel at the next team he plays for. He's a great defender and he's got offense potential that was never allowed to be shown on this team for whatever reason. This team was very late or inaccurate in its passing this season and that's part of the problem. The other is we never kept the opponent's defense off balance with having our smaller players drive the lane.
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03-22-2023, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
I can think of a lot of guys that didn't score a ton, didn't shoot the 3 well, and were far from mediocre. Trey Landers and Kyle Davis say hello.
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Agreed with those names...but is RJ even in the same conversation as them?
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03-22-2023, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
What we will never know but won't stop people from spinning it to meet their narrative (sounds like news channels) is was this RJ prompted or AG prompted.
I feel like Amzil was his choice and RJ likely was AG's but can't imagine we will ever know.
Welcome to the new normal. Coach can impact either way some but if you don't lose 3+ a year, you are way ahead of the curve.
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Blakney found himself in Grant's doghouse, and one thing is clear...once you are in Anthony Grant's doghouse, there is no way out.
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03-22-2023, 03:35 PM
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Was at a sports bar / restaurant watching the A-10 finals. In the booth next to me was a former manager at VCU. He was there the last few years. Heard him say of Blakney - "he has great ups - but no offensive skills." 3rd party - take it for what it was. But this season - I would say it would be hard to argue that assessment. Defensively however he will be missed.
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03-22-2023, 03:51 PM
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RJs biggest issue was RJ, not the system, not AG. Kid has the tools, but never put it all together.
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03-22-2023, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
RJs biggest issue was RJ, not the system, not AG. Kid has the tools, but never put it all together.
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So Grant started a kid for over 1.5 years straight who couldn't put it together? Yeah, no, Grant doesn't give kids 1.5 year tryouts. He obviously fit what Grant was looking for in that period of time, so if there's a problem with his production, that's on Grant as he never required more.
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03-22-2023, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Agreed with those names...but is RJ even in the same conversation as them?
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Defensively, yes.
The reference was not to suggest that he is the same as those two but rather to point out that based on the stats that were thrown out, we've had some pretty decent players that weren't offensive juggernauts.
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03-22-2023, 04:42 PM
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Good luck to him, we can always remember the dunk against Richmond
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03-22-2023, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
So Grant started a kid for over 1.5 years straight who couldn't put it together? Yeah, no, Grant doesn't give kids 1.5 year tryouts. He obviously fit what Grant was looking for in that period of time, so if there's a problem with his production, that's on Grant as he never required more.
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I mean, this is absolute nonsense. There are many players who play somewhere for a few years and never meet their potential despite the gifts they have, and they move on. It's not like he did nothing. He did a lot of things. He just never did them consistently on a nightly basis. This isn't really hard to understand.
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03-22-2023, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
I mean, this is absolute nonsense. There are many players who play somewhere for a few years and never meet their potential despite the gifts they have, and they move on. It's not like he did nothing. He did a lot of things. He just never did them consistently on a nightly basis. This isn't really hard to understand.
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No, it's not hard to understand for this fanbase. Seems to fit Amzil, Elvis, Mali, Brea and Mike also. How unfortunate that Grant keeps having these problems with 3 of the 5 starting positions. Yes, it's the coach.
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03-22-2023, 06:27 PM
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Major General
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One door closes, another door opens. I'm not worried about either departure. We may see 6-7 departures. If the ones coming back in are better, more mature, play as a team, it'll get much better. If not, you haters will get your wish. One thing is certain though, since the rules have changed with respect to transfer portal and NIL, college BB is becoming a CF of drama and I'm about to forget it entirely. I have my money on AG.
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03-22-2023, 06:34 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Had this one on the radar for a couple of months now. Speaking strictly with regard to his oncourt performance, he had both pluses and minuses. On the plus side, when he had his head in the game, he was the best perimeter defender we had (once Chatman left), he could occasionally hit some shots both inside and out, and he may have been our most athletic player. On the minus side, he had one of the worst handles on the team, and with him being clearly a wing player, that’s as big of a “hole” in his game as the inability to hit an off-speed pitch is for a baseball player: your ceiling is limited unless/until you can fix that “hole”.
Thanks for the good memories, RJ. I hope you find what you’re looking for.
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03-22-2023, 06:43 PM
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Please get guards!!
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03-22-2023, 06:45 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by maddog07
RJ has a bad handle. A really bad handle. That greatly limits his offensive game. He’s also very tentative. While some will bemoan his loss, he’s the poster child for mediocrity.
3 years and every year his fg% declined, his 3 pt % declined… he went 16/66 from 3 this year, far and away dead last on a bad 3pt shooting team.
Perhaps there is a strong bball school that wants a defensive specialist. More likely he plays at a MAC level school.
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You’re the first one who cited his handle as a major weakness, and I agree completely that his inability to handle the ball was the biggest thing stopping him from getting to a higher level of performance. And yeah, the best part of his offensive game was slashing to the hoop, but if he’s going to get the ball stolen on 3 out of 4 drives to the hoop, then what good are those “slashing” skills?
And, regarding where he winds up, I can see him pulling a Policelli and going to a lower level D-I school on the east coast (think MAAC, MEAC, Patriot, etc.). His handle will prevent him from making an upward move.
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03-22-2023, 06:48 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by zmz723
Please get guards!!
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I agree completely, but don’t think for a minute that RJ was a “guard”. As far as ball handling skills are concerned, we’re losing more with Mus’s transfer than we are with RJ’s.
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03-22-2023, 07:01 PM
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Wish RJ and Amzil well .. both guys were there 2 plus years and the team didn’t make the NCAA.. both started many games and both played a lot of min… we need better players .
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03-22-2023, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
You’re the first one who cited his handle as a major weakness, and I agree completely that his inability to handle the ball was the biggest thing stopping him from getting to a higher level of performance. And yeah, the best part of his offensive game was slashing to the hoop, but if he’s going to get the ball stolen on 3 out of 4 drives to the hoop, then what good are those “slashing” skills?
And, regarding where he winds up, I can see him pulling a Policelli and going to a lower level D-I school on the east coast (think MAAC, MEAC, Patriot, etc.). His handle will prevent him from making an upward move.
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I'll guess UMBC or Loyola MD.
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03-22-2023, 07:39 PM
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Colonel
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
Blakney found himself in Grant's doghouse, and one thing is clear...once you are in Anthony Grant's doghouse, there is no way out.
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Seemed like once he went out of the starting lineup, his game went downhill (including his defense surprisingly).
Typically when a coaching staff makes a move like that, they are sending a message to a player - hoping to spur them on (to up their game). Guess RJ reacted just the opposite.
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03-22-2023, 08:01 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
I'll guess UMBC or Loyola MD.
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I had this argument with Steve 2 years ago over Chatman and of course I was right.
RJ was good enough to be a starter on a team that barely missed the Tournament last season and was good enough to start for the 2nd place team in the A10 for most of this season. He's leaving over differences with the coach or something, not because he's not considered starter material here. He will sign with a conference comparable to the A10 if not better.
Probably the same for Amzil, I'm hoping he signs with Archie who tried to recruit him to Indiana. Then we can get a real view of which of those two coaches knows how to develop and use a player.
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03-22-2023, 08:21 PM
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I like what the staff is doing led by AG.. need better players .. that’s Grants job .. Need better players who are dogs and versatile.. RJ no offense and Amzil zero defense . The fault with this staff is the roster.. need to fix what they broke and fast!
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03-22-2023, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye
I like what the staff is doing led by AG.. need better players .. that’s Grants job .. Need better players who are dogs and versatile.. RJ no offense and Amzil zero defense . The fault with this staff is the roster.. need to fix what they broke and fast!
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lmao, the staff led by AG? BS. Amzil and RJ made the decision, not the coaches. Coaches don't tell players who've had major playing time that they should hit the road because they're looking for better. They say nothing and if they really are trying to improve, they still look at those players as key depth if it all works out.
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03-22-2023, 08:42 PM
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Blakney has a terrible handle and really bad hands. He can jump out of the gym and is strong as an ox, but averaged 2.5 rebounds a game, because he can’t secure the ball.
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03-22-2023, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
RJ has a bad handle. A really bad handle. That greatly limits his offensive game. He’s also very tentative. While some will bemoan his loss, he’s the poster child for mediocrity.
3 years and every year his fg% declined, his 3 pt % declined… he went 16/66 from 3 this year, far and away dead last on a bad 3pt shooting team.
Perhaps there is a strong bball school that wants a defensive specialist. More likely he plays at a MAC level school.
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RJ led the nation in blocked shots, hands down. Getting his shot blocked, that is. I have never in my life seen anyone so apt to get this shot blocked.
I literally said out loud every time he drove to the hoop "here comes the block". I had time to say it because one of his drives took longer than Bernie Kosar scrambling for 15 yards.
HOW did he get blocked 2x - 3x per game? I will never know.
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03-22-2023, 08:45 PM
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RJ quit during the season and Amzil who played 30 min Quit after the season ..didn’t want to be a Flyer anymore .. see ya!! Great job by Grant! The boys quit didn’t want to be Flyers!! And stop with the thank you to fans notes ..
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03-22-2023, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
RJ led the nation in blocked shots, hands down. Getting his shot blocked, that is. I have never in my life seen anyone so apt to get this shot blocked.
I literally said out loud every time he drove to the hoop "here comes the block". I had time to say it because one of his drives took longer than Bernie Kosar scrambling for 15 yards.
HOW did he get blocked 2x - 3x per game? I will never know.
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He was very much in the Brian Gregory mold. Defense/athleticism with limited offense
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03-22-2023, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I literally said out loud every time he drove to the hoop "here comes the block". I had time to say it because one of his drives took longer than Bernie Kosar scrambling for 15 yards.
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I was going to call BS on this. As a Browns fan my first thought is there's no way he can know this since Bernie never moved 15 yards on one play his whole career. But, I looked it up and he gained 17 yards twice. All I can say is if this stat is correct, I can only guess that the force of the defensive lineman hitting him from behind carried him 12 of those yards.
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03-22-2023, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
RJ led the nation in blocked shots, hands down. Getting his shot blocked, that is. I have never in my life seen anyone so apt to get this shot blocked.
I literally said out loud every time he drove to the hoop "here comes the block". I had time to say it because one of his drives took longer than Bernie Kosar scrambling for 15 yards.
HOW did he get blocked 2x - 3x per game? I will never know.
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Mali told RJ to hold his beer as he tries to get a layup between two 7 footers
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03-22-2023, 10:42 PM
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RJ played good D but his O was pretty limited. Successful teams in the tournament have a guy who can score driving to the hoop and are deep threats. Frankly, RJ was limited in both areas.
Not sure we’ll ever know what transpired but the RJ in March was not the same RJ we saw in December. It was pretty obvious to any objective observer that RJ was not staying. I hope he finds success and happiness. I suspect that will happen at a school like Towson St.
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03-23-2023, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I had this argument with Steve 2 years ago over Chatman and of course I was right.
RJ was good enough to be a starter on a team that barely missed the Tournament last season and was good enough to start for the 2nd place team in the A10 for most of this season. He's leaving over differences with the coach or something, not because he's not considered starter material here.
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Does this apply to only RJ or all starting-caliber players on all teams?
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03-23-2023, 07:25 AM
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For whatever reason(s) RJ was in a funk later part of the season. Grant mentioned RJ was dealing with an injury and "a few other things". Not surprised to see him go ... hope he finds what he is looking for.
Best of luck RJ!
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03-23-2023, 08:57 AM
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Clearly, the portal is the new norm and is not going away. We'd like to think that we offer a better situation than other schools and that would be a reason for guys to stay. Unfortunately, that is not the case for us or for any program. Transferring is now too easy and has no downside* - not to mention the NIL component. Teams in general will be recruiting less HS players and will be relying mostly on portal players - it totally sucks, but get used to it. Only the obvious high 4&5 star HS players and intl players will get recruited. The rest will go to Bowling Green, YSU, William & Mary, etc. and after 1-2 years as conference standouts will they "graduate" to a power 6 program with an NIL deal. This will be the new normal - root for the jersey, not the player.
*the downside is that only 54% of these portal players will play college ball again. That is an eye opening number. I would love to see a breakdown of the characteristics of everyone entering the portal and then those who get picked up.
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03-23-2023, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
For whatever reason(s) RJ was in a funk later part of the season. Grant mentioned RJ was dealing with an injury and "a few other things". Not surprised to see him go ... hope he finds what he is looking for.
Best of luck RJ!
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There were plenty of cryptic words. Players "dealing with some things" isn't a physical injury.
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03-23-2023, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
There were plenty of cryptic words. Players "dealing with some things" isn't a physical injury.
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I figured as soon as I saw that quote, that RJ was contemplating leaving the team (probably right then) and very likely to leave after the season was over. Hope he finds what he's looking for and actually doesn't become one of the 46%
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03-23-2023, 09:31 AM
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Wish him luck for sure. Once a Flyer and all that...
Having said that, I am not sure what he excelled at. Some of this board tried to label him as a defensive whiz... (code for no handle or and suspect shot). He went silent late in the year on D. Not sure what was up with him.
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03-23-2023, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan
Wish him luck for sure. Once a Flyer and all that...
Having said that, I am not sure what he excelled at. Some of this board tried to label him as a defensive whiz... (code for no handle or and suspect shot). He went silent late in the year on D. Not sure what was up with him.
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Actually, for much of his career here, he was our best and most versatile perimeter defender (though Chatman was strong in 2020-21 and Tou was the Swiss Army Knife for much of this season). That terminology doesn’t need to be “code” for his offensive shortcomings, but there’s no question he had those shortcomings.
And I’m not sure anyone outside the Circle of Trust will know what was up with him these past couple of months, but as many have indicated, there were clear signs that his time in the program was coming to an end. At some point, he may divulge his side of the story. It’s doubtful anyone on the coaching staff will.
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Good luck at your next stop RJ and thank for being a Flyer!
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03-23-2023, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Does this apply to only RJ or all starting-caliber players on all teams?
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I only know of one player that was a starting player on the 2nd place team of the A10 that is leaving, so far. So I'm speaking of RJ? What's your point?
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03-23-2023, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I only know of one player that was a starting player on the 2nd place team of the A10 that is leaving, so far. So I'm speaking of RJ? What's your point?
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But the A10 was terrible, what significance does his team finishing 2nd have, unless you are also going to give the team, and God forbid the staff credit for finishing 2nd, and I don't think most people on this board feel that was a significant accomplishment, (at least not this year).
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03-23-2023, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
But the A10 was terrible, what significance does his team finishing 2nd have, unless you are also going to give the team, and God forbid the staff credit for finishing 2nd, and I don't think most people on this board feel that was a significant accomplishment, (at least not this year).
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Because in my original quote I said "He will sign with a conference comparable to the A10 if not better.".
If the A10 is bad, which it is, it still holds true. My point was he wasn't going to wind up in worse conference with the likes of UMBC or Loyola MD.
Any more questions?
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03-23-2023, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Because in my original quote I said "He will sign with a conference comparable to the A10 if not better.".
If the A10 is bad, which it is, it still holds true. My point was he wasn't going to wind up in worse conference with the likes of UMBC or Loyola MD.
Any more questions?
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We shall see where he ends up. The point of my post is you sort of seem to want it both ways. A kid doesn't leave the 2nd place team where he was a starter unless there is an issue with the coach/the conference stunk this year, finishing second is not something to be celebrated or even tolerated. Those two lines of thought seem incongruent to me and I believe you have agreed with or stated both. I mean if the conference is horrible then how good can a kid who started on the second place team and didn't put up eye popping stats be?
I am just making an argument, I liked RJ and his effort particularly on the defensive end.
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03-23-2023, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
We shall see where he ends up. The point of my post is you sort of seem to want it both ways. A kid doesn't leave the 2nd place team where he was a starter unless there is an issue with the coach/the conference stunk this year, finishing second is not something to be celebrated or even tolerated. Those two lines of thought seem incongruent to me and I believe you have agreed with or stated both. I mean if the conference is horrible then how good can a kid who started on the second place team and didn't put up eye popping stats be?
I am just making an argument, I liked RJ and his effort particularly on the defensive end.
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lol, my point, still not sure you got it, you might have, is that RJ is not destined to the same fate as Policelli, Cohill, Sissoko, Crosby etc... they were back ups so to get ensure more playing time, they had to drop in class. Blakney's problem isn't that the A10 level was too high for him to get playing time so I expect he won't move down and can possibly move up as you would expect some improvement in his abilities next season just because it's another year of experience.
I also was referring to this as I had the same argument 2 years ago with know-it-all-Steve. This is in response to me saying a starter for the #3 team in the country would in all likely hood move up in conference, and he did to the SEC and Vanderbilt. http://www.udpride.com/forums/showpo...61&postcount=5
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03-23-2023, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
lol, my point, still not sure you got it, you might have, is that RJ is not destined to the same fate as Policelli, Cohill, Sissoko, Crosby etc... they were back ups so to get ensure more playing time, they had to drop in class. Blakney's problem isn't that the A10 level was too high for him to get playing time so I expect he won't move down and can possibly move up as you would expect some improvement in his abilities next season just because it's another year of experience.
I also was referring to this as I had the same argument 2 years ago with know-it-all-Steve. This is in response to me saying a starter for the #3 team in the country would in all likely hood move up in conference, and he did to the SEC and Vanderbilt. http://www.udpride.com/forums/showpo...61&postcount=5
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That's a highly liberal use of the idea of "moving up". Vandy went 19-17, 7-11 in the SEC with Chapman. They finished 11th in conference.
Oh they just had a bad year you say, but it was actually moving up you say? Vandy went 150-172 in the previous 10 years, finishing tied for 5th once, 7th twice, 10th twice, 11th, 13th, and 14th THREE TIMES. They are "not good". Dreadful, even.
Judge's ruling on that one, that's not moving up.
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03-23-2023, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
That's a highly liberal use of the idea of "moving up". Vandy went 19-17, 7-11 in the SEC with Chapman. They finished 11th in conference.
Oh they just had a bad year you say, but it was actually moving up you say? Vandy went 150-172 in the previous 10 years, finishing tied for 5th once, 7th twice, 10th twice, 11th, 13th, and 14th THREE TIMES. They are "not good". Dreadful, even.
Judge's ruling on that one, that's not moving up.
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Again as I've debated in the past, there are two ways to move up,, one is in competition and the other is in team(they aren't always mutually exclusive). He moved up in the sense that he got to play against much better competition and he did move after the 2020-2021 season and was part of the Vandy team that beat Dayton in the NIT last year.
Moving from the A10 to the SEC is a serious move up in competition. Moving say from Clemson to Gonzaga would be a move up in team but drop down in competition.
Moving from Dayton to UMBC would be a drop down in both. Not going to happen to a starter.
Also, if you look at the link I provided, Steve was basically laughing at my prediction that he would move up in conference as he started the post with "So you expect Chatman to go to a higher ranked conference?" Will you agree that the SEC is a move up in conference, because if you won't, there's no reason to go on.
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03-23-2023, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
That's a highly liberal use of the idea of "moving up". Vandy went 19-17, 7-11 in the SEC with Chapman. They finished 11th in conference.
Oh they just had a bad year you say, but it was actually moving up you say? Vandy went 150-172 in the previous 10 years, finishing tied for 5th once, 7th twice, 10th twice, 11th, 13th, and 14th THREE TIMES. They are "not good". Dreadful, even.
Judge's ruling on that one, that's not moving up.
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Just to prove I can be fair to those I disagree with, I believe his point was that it is a step up in competition, not team.
I still don't think RJ is going to be markedly better in a comparable or better conference, but I don't think the argument was ever that he was going to necessarily go to a better team. Although with what people think of this coach, how could any team not be a better team.
Edit: He beat me to it
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03-23-2023, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
Just to prove I can be fair to those I disagree with, I believe his point was that it is a step up in competition, not team.
I still don't think RJ is going to be markedly better in a comparable or better conference, but I don't think the argument was ever that he was going to necessarily go to a better team. Although with what people think of this coach, how could any team not be a better team.
Edit: He beat me to it
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I don't know if he'll be better or not or of course I don't know as fact that he will move unilaterally or up though I predict with lots of confidence it will be one or the other.
But I certainly will be keeping an eye on it if he does as I think if both he and Amzil do move to something comparable or better, it will show whether they were misused here or not.
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03-23-2023, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I don't know if he'll be better or not or of course I don't know as fact that he will move unilaterally or up though I predict with lots of confidence it will be one or the other.
But I certainly will be keeping an eye on it if he does as I think if both he and Amzil do move to something comparable or better, it will show whether they were misused here or not.
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Maybe it shows that, maybe it just shows that a team had a need that they filled. To take this back to Lynn Greer, do you think that he has proved he was misused at UD? Or did he just prove that he can score 12 a game on a bad team, that had one other scoring option.
I can tell you that if they either land in the MAC or play 3 minutes a game in a better conference, I won't be on here saying that proves AG is a great coach.
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03-23-2023, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
Maybe it shows that, maybe it just shows that a team had a need that they filled. To take this back to Lynn Greer, do you think that he has proved he was misused at UD? Or did he just prove that he can score 12 a game on a bad team, that had one other scoring option.
I can tell you that if they either land in the MAC or play 3 minutes a game in a better conference, I won't be on here saying that proves AG is a great coach.
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What my interpretation of Greer is that with playing time he improved. He wasn't willing to give it time at UD when the choice was made to go with Mali over him. Yes, this is mostly on Greer. However, I also put a smaller blame on Grant, not just for this situation but all like it. This is a new basketball world we live in and you have to find a way to give guys that are your future some minutes. Yes, sometimes that means giving up some ground during a game, but most of the time when you do that, you get repaid by having your starters more fresh for the end game.
Let's go back to Scoochie and Crosby. Everybody knew that when Crosby entered we would be giving up ground, lots of ground most of the time. But it worked out because we had a more energetic Scoochie at the end of the games and overtime due to it. At the same time Crosby was happy that he was getting playing time and also that he trusted the coach saw a future in him(Obviously this never played out because Archie left the same year Scoochie did) and Crosby to be honest turned out to be a bust when it was all said and done.
You have to sacrifice a little for the future, even more now than previously because unhappy, and the craving of instant gratification, now has an obvious path out.
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03-23-2023, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
That's a highly liberal use of the idea of "moving up". Vandy went 19-17, 7-11 in the SEC with Chapman. They finished 11th in conference.
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When was the last time an 11th place A10 team played in a post season tournament? That does seem to show it was a move to a better conference.
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03-23-2023, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
Mali told RJ to hold his beer as he tries to get a layup between two 7 footers
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LMFAO Best post on this thread, just ahead of get more guards please
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03-23-2023, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
I only know of one player that was a starting player on the 2nd place team of the A10 that is leaving, so far. So I'm speaking of RJ? What's your point?
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My point was already stated. Would you be equally upset and concerned about the coach if another player not named RJ who was also a starter decided to leave a Dayton team equal or better than this one? I'm trying to determine if this concern and red flags you point out is specific to just RJ or if this standard is universal.
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03-23-2023, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
My point was already stated. Would you be equally upset and concerned about the coach if another player not named RJ who was also a starter decided to leave a Dayton team equal or better than this one? I'm trying to determine if this concern and red flags you point out is specific to just RJ or if this standard is universal.
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****, you're the leader of the pack of UDPRIDE, and even you now speak without reading the context. I never said I was concerned. I never stated anything about red flags or concern or that I was upset that RJ was leaving. All I said was I doubt he's going to drop down in class. Quit putting words in my mouth.
Also, if I did say, and I believe I did in a totally different post than the one you want to pick an argument with me over, that RJ is better than he's shown at UD due to the offense AG employs, I would stick to that that belief whether he was staying or leaving.
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03-23-2023, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Actually, for much of his career here, he was our best and most versatile perimeter defender (though Chatman was strong in 2020-21 and Tou was the Swiss Army Knife for much of this season). That terminology doesn’t need to be “code” for his offensive shortcomings, but there’s no question he had those shortcomings.
And I’m not sure anyone outside the Circle of Trust will know what was up with him these past couple of months, but as many have indicated, there were clear signs that his time in the program was coming to an end. At some point, he may divulge his side of the story. It’s doubtful anyone on the coaching staff will.
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If RJ is the reflection of the quality of play under AG then this program is worse than we think. And he was a starter for a lot of his career. Take away all of the off the court "circle of trust" stuff and he is a MAC player
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03-23-2023, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Will you agree that the SEC is a move up in conference, because if you won't, there's no reason to go on.
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Sure. I get that.
When Chapman was in his final year at UD, the A10 was ranked as the 13th best conference. So would you concede that if Chapman transferred to Samford (Southern conference), coming off a 261 RPI season, and you could have made the same claim?
Meaning, not so impressive of a prediction. There were somewhere in the neighborhood of 125 - 150 schools he could have gone to and you could claim you're right.
The DePaul's of the world aren't so impressive. Getting your brains beat in every night doesn't make you a good basketball player. Just a body.
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03-23-2023, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
****, you're the leader of the pack of UDPRIDE, and even you now speak without reading the context. I never said I was concerned. I never stated anything about red flags or concern or that I was upset that RJ was leaving. All I said was I doubt he's going to drop down in class. Quit putting words in my mouth.
Also, if I did say, and I believe I did in a totally different post than the one you want to pick an argument with me over, that RJ is better than he's shown at UD due to the offense AG employs, I would stick to that that belief whether he was staying or leaving.
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To recap Smitty, RJ is better than he's shown, got starter minutes, will transfer to an equal or better program....but is not upset he's leaving.
Then what the heck is anyone arguing about? Are you happy or not? He's either a net loss or a net gain in his departure. You cant play tennis on both sides of the net.
Id think anyone upset with this year's team's performance would be doing cartwheels seeing these players exit. Frees up room to find better players that can fit better into Grant's system. This team was in-tact for basically two straight years and didn't get it done with the same personnel. A third year is doubtful to change much if everything else stays the same. So far UD has lost three players to the portal and not one of them was an All-Conference level player -- one was solid this year, another was a hot mess, and the third literally never played. If Grant is staying, and there's no reason to believe he isn't -- the only two options are bring everybody back and do it all over again for a third time, or find a different group of players with more upside.
Anyone hoping the only thing that needs to change is Grant -- and that such a re-invention is going to happen -- also believes in the Easter Bunny. He may need to modify his tactics or strategy to fit different personnel so the ceiling is higher, but Grant is not going to come back in October unrecognizable. Just ain't happenin'. He's our coach next year or so it appears. So everyone should wish the departures well but also rejoice that we have some serious room now to find some upgrades. And if we don't find those upgrades, we know how this will end.
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03-23-2023, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
To recap Smitty, RJ is better than he's shown, got starter minutes, will transfer to an equal or better program....but is not upset he's leaving.
Then what the heck is anyone arguing about? Are you happy or not? He's either a net loss or a net gain in his departure. You cant play tennis on both sides of the net.
Id think anyone upset with this year's team's performance would be doing cartwheels seeing these players exit. Frees up room to find better players that can fit better into Grant's system. This team was in-tact for basically two straight years and didn't get it done with the same personnel. A third year is doubtful to change much if everything else stays the same. So far UD has lost three players to the portal and not one of them was an All-Conference level player -- one was solid this year, another was a hot mess, and the third literally never played. If Grant is staying, and there's no reason to believe he isn't -- the only two options are bring everybody back and do it all over again for a third time, or find a different group of players with more upside.
Anyone hoping the only thing that needs to change is Grant -- and that such a re-invention is going to happen -- also believes in the Easter Bunny. He may need to modify his tactics or strategy to fit different personnel so the ceiling is higher, but Grant is not going to come back in October unrecognizable. Just ain't happenin'. He's our coach next year or so it appears. So everyone should wish the departures well but also rejoice that we have some serious room now to find some upgrades. And if we don't find those upgrades, we know how this will end.
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I'm unhappy with Grant. I've seen next season as a total dumpster fire before this season even started. So seeing players leave now doesn't bother me because it's going to take a hell of a lot longer than their eligibility to clean this mess up.
I was referring to RJ transferring and that he will not go down in class. That's all I was referring to in that post that you started trying to pick a fight about.
But RJ was wasted here and I expect we'll see that in the near future. So were a lot of players.
I'm unhappy about the way AG put this crap together. Only two players smaller than 6'6, of course we're slow and turn the ball over. Of course injury to those two players are going to turn a season into crap.
He's been a dismal failure and while I might think certain players like Brea don't belong in this conference, I don't blame Brea, I blame the moron who recruited him to be our next Jordan Sibert when he's barely our next Luke Fabrizius.
The players are fine, some probably darn good, but they are playing for a total failure.
Satisfied?
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03-24-2023, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Anyone hoping the only thing that needs to change is Grant -- and that such a re-invention is going to happen -- also believes in the Easter Bunny. He may need to modify his tactics or strategy to fit different personnel so the ceiling is higher, but Grant is not going to come back in October unrecognizable. Just ain't happenin'. He's our coach next year or so it appears. So everyone should wish the departures well but also rejoice that we have some serious room now to find some upgrades. And if we don't find those upgrades, we know how this will end.
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I will do cartwheels if the upgrades materialize. For now, this offseason is playing out pretty well how I worried it would - an exodus of players that turns into a net loss of talent next year. If we couldn't win with the talent we had this year, next year could be particularly messy. I hope I'm wrong and AG can pull some rabbits out of a hat on the recruiting trail, because we are probably going to need it.
And if we struggle next season with all of the new guys, we will be stuck listening to the excuse-makers talk all season about how there are so many new players and we need to give it another year or two to learn the system. Rinse and repeat.
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03-24-2023, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Sure. I get that.
When Chapman was in his final year at UD, the A10 was ranked as the 13th best conference. So would you concede that if Chapman transferred to Samford (Southern conference), coming off a 261 RPI season, [that] you could have made the same claim?
Meaning, not so impressive of a prediction. There were somewhere in the neighborhood of 125 - 150 schools he could have gone to and you could claim you're right.
The DePaul's of the world aren't so impressive. Getting your brains beat in every night doesn't make you a good basketball player. Just a body.
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Hello? You out there Smitty?
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03-24-2023, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Hello? You out there Smitty?
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Chapman? Are you referring to Velvet? The Flyers were not in the Atlantic 10 back then.
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03-24-2023, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Chapman? Are you referring to Velvet? The Flyers were not in the Atlantic 10 back then.
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So, you concede you are in a hole, and have decided to stop digging and start tunneling. I appreciate your concession speech.
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03-24-2023, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
So, you concede you are in a hole, and have decided to stop digging and start tunneling. I appreciate your concession speech.
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No, I asked you to clarify. Roosevelt Chapman, who is the only Chapman that I know ever played for the Flyers, never played in the A10.
Last edited by Smitty10; 03-24-2023 at 02:59 PM..
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03-24-2023, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
No, I asked you to clarify. Roosevelt Chapman, who is the only Chapman that I know ever played for the Flyers, never played in the A10.
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Hello? You out there Gazoo?
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03-24-2023, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Hello? You out there Gazoo?
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To paraphrase you from earlier on this thread, you MUST be smart enought to know it was a spelling mistake, and I obviously meant Chatman. . . the topic of half a dozen prior posts . . . because if you won't, there's no reason to go on, because you're just being a horse's hindquarters.
Originally Posted by Smitty10
Only two players smaller than 6'6
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What's a 6'6? You mean perfect vision? Did you mean 6's? You mean Velvet?
Smaller? There are insignificant players, is that what you're saying, since of course everyone knows that "shorter" would be in reference to a person's height?
(That search took, oh, all of reading 2 of your posts.)
Again, you chose to tunnel after you realized it would be embarrassing to keep digging. Cool, cool.
Last edited by Gazoo; 03-24-2023 at 05:36 PM..
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03-24-2023, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
To paraphrase you from earlier on this thread, you MUST be smart enought to know it was a spelling mistake, and I obviously meant Chatman. . . the topic of half a dozen prior posts . . . because if you won't, there's no reason to go on, because you're just being a horse's hindquarters.
What's a 6'6? You mean perfect vision? Did you mean 6's? You mean Velvet? (That search took, oh, all of reading 2 of your posts.)
Again, you chose to tunnel after you realized it would be embarrassing to keep digging. Cool, cool.
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You're not making any sense. Really, you're not.
If I recall correctly in the original thread I said he would probably move to a bottom half P6 team because players that are starters on a top 5 ranked team don't fall as they get more experienced.
So the answer is no, I was not talking about Samford and I certainly wouldn't tout that as me being correct. But guess what, I didn't have to anyway. He went to a clearly higher level conference, so I was right, or in your warped opinion not wrong at best. Guess who was wrong dickhead, Steve. Go harrass him with your stuipid devil's advocate position.
You get a hair up your ass and you spend all night trying to prove my correct prediction as something compared to predicting the sun will come up in the morning by finding Samford and their conference ranking after 2020-2021 season.
Wasn't even a nice try so I can't end with that. I said he will move up in class and he did.
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03-24-2023, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
You're not making any sense. Really, you're not.
If I recall correctly in the original thread I said he would probably move to a bottom half P6 team because players that are starters on a top 5 ranked team don't fall as they get more experienced.
So the answer is no, I was not talking about Samford and I certainly wouldn't tout that as me being correct. But guess what, I didn't have to anyway. He went to a clearly higher level conference, so I was right, or in your warped opinion not wrong at best. Guess who was wrong dickhead, Steve. Go harrass him with your stuipid devil's advocate position.
You get a hair up your ass and you spend all night trying to prove my correct prediction as something compared to predicting the sun will come up in the morning by finding Samford and their conference ranking after 2020-2021 season.
Wasn't even a nice try so I can't end with that. I said he will move up in class and he did.
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Oh, look who found common sense. Welcome back.
You said he would move up in conference. You're with me so far, right? Not too confusing for you? OK let's move on.
Samford was in a higher conference (Southern) than the A10. I didn't lose you yet, right? Please, tell me I didn't lose you already.
Ergo: I asked a simple question you have yet to address. Would you concede that if Chapman transferred to Samford, you could have made the same claim to have been right?
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03-24-2023, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Oh, look who found common sense. Welcome back.
You said he would move up in conference. You're with me so far, right? Not too confusing for you? OK let's move on.
Samford was in a higher conference (Southern) than the A10. I didn't lose you yet, right? Please, tell me I didn't lose you already.
Ergo: I asked a simple question you have yet to address. Would you concede that if Chapman transferred to Samford, you could have made the same claim to have been right?
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Velvet?
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03-24-2023, 06:11 PM
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Copy / paste?
As I suspected. The medication ran out, and the nurses returned you to the nice safe room. Have a nice night.
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03-24-2023, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86
And if we struggle next season with all of the new guys, we will be stuck listening to the excuse-makers talk all season about how there are so many new players and we need to give it another year or two to learn the system. Rinse and repeat.
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Doubtful. Based on reading the discussion, about half the board wanted Grant gone now, and half want to give him one more season based on a multitude of unforeseeable calamities on and off the court this year that contributed -- but was certainly not entirely responsible -- to the disappointing performance. But the half willing to concede another year are pretty adamant about an NCAA bid next year -- or else.
The two camps are pretty clear: make a change now, or give Grant one additional season but no more. If someone does not fit in either camp, they are pretty quiet about it.
Both sides of the argument make two mindreading mistakes about the other side:
1. The make-a-change-now camp mindreads that those okay with Grant coaching another season are okay with Grant coaching in perpetuity with the same results.
2. The give-Grant-one-more-year camp mindreads that those wanting to make a change now have no sympathy to the tragic personal loss Grant suffered, nor the diabolical injury problem that limited lineup options.
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Make everyone else's "one day" your "day one".
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03-24-2023, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Doubtful. Based on reading the discussion, about half the board wanted Grant gone now, and half want to give him one more season based on a multitude of unforeseeable calamities on and off the court this year that contributed -- but was certainly not entirely responsible -- to the disappointing performance. But the half willing to concede another year are pretty adamant about an NCAA bid next year -- or else.
The two camps are pretty clear: make a change now, or give Grant one additional season but no more. If someone does not fit in either camp, they are pretty quiet about it.
Both sides of the argument make two mindreading mistakes about the other side:
1. The make-a-change-now camp mindreads that those okay with Grant coaching another season are okay with Grant coaching in perpetuity with the same results.
2. The give-Grant-one-more-year camp mindreads that those wanting to make a change now have no sympathy to the tragic personal loss Grant suffered, nor the diabolical injury problem that limited lineup options.
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Re the bolded above.
No, Flyerfantatic86 is correct. The excuses will be there by the same AG man crushes. The same situation happened early last season when we lost all those Q4 games. All the Grant apologists said "Yes, if he doesn't reach the NCAA both this seasons and next, he should be gone. No question or excuses about it". But as soon as it looks like another sucky Grant year, excuses start and it's time to give him another year. It's never ending.
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03-24-2023, 07:36 PM
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Yeah, the same thing was said about this year “NCAA or bust”. There will be more excuses next year
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03-25-2023, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Doubtful. Based on reading the discussion, about half the board wanted Grant gone now, and half want to give him one more season based on a multitude of unforeseeable calamities on and off the court this year that contributed -- but was certainly not entirely responsible -- to the disappointing performance. But the half willing to concede another year are pretty adamant about an NCAA bid next year -- or else.
The two camps are pretty clear: make a change now, or give Grant one additional season but no more. If someone does not fit in either camp, they are pretty quiet about it.
Both sides of the argument make two mindreading mistakes about the other side:
1. The make-a-change-now camp mindreads that those okay with Grant coaching another season are okay with Grant coaching in perpetuity with the same results.
2. The give-Grant-one-more-year camp mindreads that those wanting to make a change now have no sympathy to the tragic personal loss Grant suffered, nor the diabolical injury problem that limited lineup options.
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I agree... but there 10% on either side that don't fit in either 50.
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03-25-2023, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Doubtful. Based on reading the discussion, about half the board wanted Grant gone now, and half want to give him one more season based on a multitude of unforeseeable calamities on and off the court this year that contributed -- but was certainly not entirely responsible -- to the disappointing performance. But the half willing to concede another year are pretty adamant about an NCAA bid next year -- or else.
The two camps are pretty clear: make a change now, or give Grant one additional season but no more. If someone does not fit in either camp, they are pretty quiet about it.
Both sides of the argument make two mindreading mistakes about the other side:
1. The make-a-change-now camp mindreads that those okay with Grant coaching another season are okay with Grant coaching in perpetuity with the same results.
2. The give-Grant-one-more-year camp mindreads that those wanting to make a change now have no sympathy to the tragic personal loss Grant suffered, nor the diabolical injury problem that limited lineup options.
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Neil is his boss. Neil outlined the blueprint for what he expects for the program. That has not been met. If this was a McDonalds franchise or a Verizon store or PNC bank he would be out of a job. With the NIL and the portal this has become a business. His personal loss does factor in and in my mind may be the only thing preventing Neil from showing him the door (of which I agree with).
If youre going to outline clear goals and ask your client base for more and more patince and money (see Dayton 6th), then there needs to be accountability.
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03-25-2023, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86
I will do cartwheels if the upgrades materialize. For now, this offseason is playing out pretty well how I worried it would - an exodus of players that turns into a net loss of talent next year. If we couldn't win with the talent we had this year, next year could be particularly messy. I hope I'm wrong and AG can pull some rabbits out of a hat on the recruiting trail, because we are probably going to need it.
And if we struggle next season with all of the new guys, we will be stuck listening to the excuse-makers talk all season about how there are so many new players and we need to give it another year or two to learn the system. Rinse and repeat.
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Agree, if we struggle next year, it'll be: we just brought in all these new guys, we need to give it all one more year.
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03-25-2023, 11:39 AM
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And if there are injuries, well that will take another years. Anyone notice X lost their leading rebounder, highest FG% shooter and second leading scorer….Sweet 16. Apparently there are other schools that had injuries too. Who knew?
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06-08-2023, 10:51 AM
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RJ to Old Dominion.
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06-08-2023, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
RJ to Old Dominion.
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WOW. Just, wow.
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06-08-2023, 01:53 PM
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best of luck R. J. hope it works out
for you.
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06-08-2023, 03:53 PM
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Highly regarded Canadian PG '23 Vasean Allette ( who we recruited) chose Old Dominion. He has a twin and it seemed to be a package deal. They also signed transfers from Buffalo and Oregon. They were 19-12 last year. RJ said in an interview that he had a previous relationship from High school with one of the assistants. About half the drive time for his mom, probably a good spot for him.
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Mad Props to Lifelong Flyer Fan For This Totally Excellent Post:
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06-08-2023, 04:41 PM
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Good luck RJ!
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06-08-2023, 05:14 PM
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Sounds like he landed in a good spot for himself and his family. Best wishes for your future, both on and off the court, RJ!
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06-08-2023, 09:44 PM
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There's certainly worse places than Norfolk
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