Coach Grant returning

[lhsgolf19]

Per Jeff Goodman

“Dayton’s Anthony Grant has no plans to retire and will be back coaching next season, a source close to the situation told @stadium. Grant’s plan is to get the Flyers back to the NCAA tourney with a healthy group.”

Haters in shambles
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Per Jeff Goodman “Dayton’s Anthony Grant has no plans to retire and will be back coaching next season, a source close to the situation told @stadium. Grant’s plan is to get the Flyers back to the NCAA tourney with a healthy group.” Haters in shambles Posted via Mobile Device

This day is going to be a meltdown for some LOL, but not me.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Per Jeff Goodman “Dayton’s Anthony Grant has no plans to retire and will be back coaching next season, a source close to the situation told @stadium. Grant’s plan is to get the Flyers back to the NCAA tourney with a healthy group.” Haters in shambles Posted via Mobile Device

I assume this is true, but it comes from more "unnamed sources".

How can we be absolutely certain that this is true if it doesn't come directly from either Grant or UD?

[lhsgolf19]

Originally Posted by ud2 I assume this is true, but it comes from more "unnamed sources". How can we be absolutely certain that this is true if it doesn't come directly from either Grant or UD?

Goodman is extremely close to AG, he would know
Posted via Mobile Device

[frisco flyer]

This next season is going to put AG’s ability to field a winning team in the age of the transfer portal to the test. There’s a good chance most of our starters next season will be players not currently on the team. If this happens, it will amplify the role of the head coach. Can he get players who are unhappy with their current lot on other teams to buy in and play as a team? Can he get the offense humming with relatively little time for the players to play and practice together?

Lots of questions this off season. Most importantly, who stays and who goes. This should become clear fairly soon.

[Marysville Flyer]

Regardless if you see this as great news or the worst possible news, if this is true, it is what it is. What everyone should be able to expect is for immediate change in the areas of weakness not directly related to AG's coaching philosophy (i.e. TO usage, Foul up 3 etc.).

Roster construction, open/redshirt schollies, who plays, how many play, AG's game plan flexibility (adjust to talent he has, play the hot hands ...), lack of team specific skills addressed (shooting) all need to be addressed in the off season and should be noticeable even if not immediately impacting the product on the court once the season starts.

[Smitty10]

I think Grant is a terrible coach. And I'm glad he's coming back. This team is mostly likely going nowhere next season and it could be our worst in a long time. We don't need the AG pumpers blaming the next guy for the mess that AG created.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Regardless if you see this as great news or the worst possible news, if this is true, it is what it is. What everyone should be able to expect is for immediate change in the areas of weakness not directly related to AG's coaching philosophy (i.e. TO usage, Foul up 3 etc.). Roster construction, open/redshirt schollies, who plays, how many play, lack of specific skills addressed (shooting) all need to be addressed in the off season and should be noticeable even if not immediately impacting the product on the court once the season starts.

I have said all along I think AG should get 1 more year. Decision has been made, time to put our attention to next season and hope it pans out.

[bcross]

I hate missing the NCAA tournament. If we're here again next March sitting at 1 in 7 years, there needs to be a change.

[steve]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer This next season is going to put AG’s ability to field a winning team in the age of the transfer portal to the test. There’s a good chance most of our starters next season will be players not currently on the team. If this happens, it will amplify the role of the head coach. Can he get players who are unhappy with their current lot on other teams to buy in and play as a team? Can he get the offense humming with relatively little time for the players to play and practice together? Lots of questions this off season. Most importantly, who stays and who goes. This should become clear fairly soon.

Could somewhat mirror what K-State went thru this year. Somebody on Pride mentioned they only had 2 scholarship players from a year ago on their roster prior to this season and were picked last in the BIG 12.

[TommyGola]

I have liked Coach Grant even before he was selected to replace Archie. But I must say, he better fix the guard situation and stop micro-managing the offense, or it is going to be another season of despair.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think Grant is a terrible coach. And I'm glad he's coming back. This team is mostly likely going nowhere next season and it could be our worst in a long time. We don't need the AG pumpers blaming the next guy for the mess that AG created.

Without any off season mess really known yet, I'll do a friendly wager with you that you are wrong. It can be $1 for all I care or a $100 toward a free dinner for the household at a nice restaurant. If you lose, you still win. If I lose, I lose twice.

I fully understand your viewpoint. Maybe not how you just expressed it but the frustration is easy to understand. There is a lot of BG in AG on paper, in results, on the sidelines. A lot of what BG suffered from I feel is in AG's mentality too. Both were too married to a inflexible, controlled system and not very willing to modify from it unless forced to by circumstances out of their control.

I expect to see this year as a wake-up call at the very least in roster construction. I think AG can bring in good kids with talent even if he needs to bring in 5+. It's what he does after the roster is set though that will be most important. Can he lead individuals and build them into a high octane team?

[Swampy Meadows]

Good for AG. Good for UD.

Now work the portal hard and come back with a full 13-man roster in the fall that is greased and ready to kick ass in the A-10!

[lhsgolf19]

Originally Posted by bcross I hate missing the NCAA tournament. If we're here again next March sitting at 1 in 7 years, there needs to be a change.

I'm one of the biggest AG fans around and I agree... I bet Coach Grant knows that too

[maddog07]

Ready for another year of abject mediocrity….
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Without any off season mess really known yet, I'll do a friendly wager with you that you are wrong. It can be $1 for all I care or a $100 toward a free dinner for the household at a nice restaurant. If you lose, you still win. If I lose, I lose twice. I fully understand your viewpoint. Maybe not how you just expressed it but the frustration is easy to understand. There is a lot of BG in AG on paper, in results, on the sidelines. A lot of what BG suffered from I feel is in AG's mentality too. Both were too married to a inflexible, controlled system and not very willing to modify from it unless forced to by circumstances out of their control. I expect to see this year as a wake-up call at the very least in roster construction. I think AG can bring in good kids with talent even if he needs to bring in 5+. It's what he does after the roster is set though that will be most important. Can he lead individuals and build them into a high octane team?

Let's just make it an "I told you so wager". I want to keep my anonymity and that would be lost either paying or receiving from a wager.

I know there are teams that almost totally restocked through the portal and have been immediately successful, but those teams seem to mainly come from the P6. I think it's rare and an anomaly when it happens. Continuity is important and grabbing a whole team that's never played together is just not very good odds for winning.

I'm starting to think that Mid-Majors lose in this new landscape while it benefits those above and those below. It's like the lower programs get the players that are unhappy not starting for 2 years who might be ready to be the next Ryan Mikesell while the higher teams get the ones who were top notch starters from the beginning like Deuce(if the Flyers have any chance of getting to the NCAA tournament, I can't see it happening without him btw).

To hold up Kansas St. and Pitt is just not comparable imo. I'm sure a Duquesne or some of our bottom feeders can improve that way, but it won't be enough to be a team that can get to the NCAA tourney and advance I don't believe.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[do54]

I believe it is time to forget the old way if team building and understand the world of NIL and the transfer portal. Teams are going to dramatically change every year so you might as well get used to it. Teams will be very fortunate if 50% of their team returns the following year. Coaches have a tougher job now than they had previously. Not an AG thing , just college basketball in 2023.
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[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by ud2 I assume this is true, but it comes from more "unnamed sources". How can we be absolutely certain that this is true if it doesn't come directly from either Grant or UD?

My reaction exactly. I didn't believe the last one because it wasn't sourced and I will apply the same logic here. If this is in fact true, I wouldn't expect the University to issue a statement as I am sure they don't want to set the precedent of needing to respond to rumors people post on Twitter.

Unless I hear something different from the U, I will assume that nothing is changing from a coaching standpoint.

[TrueTeam]

I'm ok with this only if Grant is forced to hire some kind of offensive coordinator / in game coach. He's a great recruiter and defensive coach, but the offensive scheme needs a major overhaul.

[Flyers98]

Another of the teams that will be hitting the portal hard is URI. 4 of their top 7 have already baled, (I am also willing to consider that Archie told them he is rebuilding he and they need to find new homes). In any event, it looks like it is old fashioned, head to head, recruit off.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Another of the teams that will be hitting the portal hard is URI. 4 of their top 7 have already baled, (I am also willing to consider that Archie told them he is rebuilding he and they need to find new homes). In any event, it looks like it is old fashioned, head to head, recruit off.

4 of their top 7 have already baled on godlike coach AM? Is that true? If so, what does that say about him? Oh wait, let me guess; it's OK for HIM to have guys leaving the program but not AG, got it.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 4 of their top 7 have already baled on godlike coach AM? Is that true? If so, what does that say about him? Oh wait, let me guess; it's OK for HIM to have guys leaving the program but not AG, got it.

These weren’t AM’s kids. He inherited them . And they pretty much sucked. They got them a net rank of 265! They were 9-22. Oh, and guess who their BEST win was against???
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[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Another of the teams that will be hitting the portal hard is URI. 4 of their top 7 have already baled, (I am also willing to consider that Archie told them he is rebuilding he and they need to find new homes). In any event, it looks like it is old fashioned, head to head, recruit off.

I also believe they had the same happen prior to his arriving. I believe he started with 4 transfers. Not backing AM here, as I dont really care what happens at RI other than I want them to be strong so the league becomes stronger.

But of note, we lost against that roster, that was basically pasted together.

[forego1]

If I am not mistaken, I posted an opinion that UD would not win a single NCAA tournament game for at least a decade after this hire. True, my seeing was made right by the covid situation,
but that is luck I could do without.

When the current hire was made, I was very much against it.

I strongly believe that successful coaches are so passionately zealous and single-minded that it is intolerable for them to not be a head coach, having once tasted that. Like Rick Pitino, no matter how far down the ladder, there is an obsession to lead a program. That is the first thing that was weighed into my opinion.
Secondly, given the program’s success and status at the time, the record of the hire did not stand out as impressive. I very much doubt that the hire would have been on UD’s radar, if not for the fact of alumni status. I would appoint value here ONLY if this was the target at large regardless.
I refuse to believe that being an alumni did not get over-weighed.

I consider that relationships are valued, and that character and loyalty mean something more to those touched by said relationships.

I do NOT understand the vitriol for those fans and posters whose visions are more oriented to NCAA tournament wins as a basic standard. I’ve seen posts that demonize other posters as haters of a person, where it seems obvious to me they just want a producer.

If you are for a coach where the prioritized standard isn’t related to winning, then questions arise. Why is the investment so great? I might be presuming mistakenly
that UD’s expenditures exceed the average of other A-10 colleges. If they do, why?

As to the successful year, I don’t discredit it as an anomaly, but being unlucky is not a plus on anyone’s resume.

The capability, the possibility may be there. Yet, for the first reason mentioned, I tend to believe the challenge is too great for this hire. I do not think the intense drive exists, and this seems to be borne out whenever there is pressure. As the overall record does not shine, I can see why some believe this is not the right direction if winning NCAA tournament games is deemed important.

It seems to me that the staunch supporters of this head coach are making the issue a highly charged personal matter.

Those not supportive - - they just want this coach gone so another has a chance.
Wanting to win an NCAA game this decade is not sinful.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Ready for another year of abject mediocrity…. Posted via Mobile Device

Me too!

Go Flyers!

Go CAG!

[Jeff]

I'm happy for AG that he has job security.

I would be happier if he could produce some tournament consistency.

[CoffeeCan]

The fact that he had to be asked about his plans says it all. Hang on folks. Get ready for a rocky, but if course professional and classy, ride.

[steve]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan The fact that he had to be asked about his plans says it all. Hang on folks. Get ready for a rocky, but if course professional and classy, ride.

"In flux"...lmao.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by maddog07 These weren’t AM’s kids. He inherited them . And they pretty much sucked. They got them a net rank of 265! They were 9-22. Oh, and guess who their BEST win was against??? Posted via Mobile Device

Isn't this exactly what happened to AG his first year, players bailed on him and 4 left? Pretty sure AG had a better first year than that.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by forego1 Those not supportive - - they just want this coach gone so another has a chance.

I was actually able to follow your grandiose back-pat post until the above statement, which couldn't be more wrong.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by steve "In flux"...lmao.

I dont think Rhodes or McCaffrey or Smart or sean Miller are asked if they are back...

[CoffeeCan]

The Grant Years

17-18 Rebuilding Year
18-19 Just Wait Until Next Year
19-20 Global Pandemic
20-21 Covid Hangover
21-22 First Team Out
22-23 So Many Injuries
23-24 Where Did Everyone Go?

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan The fact that he had to be asked about his plans says it all. Hang on folks. Get ready for a rocky, but if course professional and classy, ride.

Where are you getting that he had to be asked about his plans? If he did have to be asked what does it say, that a bunch of people spreading false rumors, (lies is a less polite word for that), on Twitter and message boards made it necessary for him to clear the air?

I love it, you start the fire, and then complain about the way the fire department puts it out.

[Flyerferd]

I have said all along like a couple of other posters, he gets one more year. That is next year. I would go as far as saying, making it to the dance isn’t enough. in this new era of college basketball, for us to be relevant, second weekend appearances are a must. Because of our conference, we do not have the luxury of screwing off during November, and December to… “Find ourselves.” That better happen this summer. Oh by the way, the new big east contract starts in 2024. I’m not even going anywhere near that pipe dream at this point. I want who is ever here to be successful, so I will route like hell for Grant this year. I truly want him to succeed. I just don’t think he will.
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[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan I dont think Rhodes or McCaffrey or Smart or sean Miller are asked if they are back...

You are a ridiculous human being. Did anyone propagate false rumors about those coaches and their future?

Seeing your last two posts makes me more convinced than ever that this was posted with knowledge that it was false, hoping it would pick up steam and become reality. I also love how now you are back to ripping his record, (which is a completely different subject on which we may agree), to deflect from this issue. This is how children argue:

X is true, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, (then it is proven false), OK it isn't but remember Y?"

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 You are a ridiculous human being. Did anyone propagate false rumors about those coaches and their future? Seeing your last two posts makes me more convinced than ever that this was posted with knowledge that it was false, hoping it would pick up steam and become reality.

Not following you... my point was that there was a report yhat CAG was back... so I am guessing that someone asked if he would, in fact, be back.

Coaches who are having success and achieving their goals are generally not asked about their returning.

I like Grant. I want to win.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Not following you... my point was that there was a report yhat CAG was back... so I am guessing that someone asked if he would, in fact, be back. Coaches who are having success and achieving their goals are generally not asked about their returning. I like Grant. I want to win.

LOL, I agree that in a vacuum a winning coach probably isn't asked if he is returning. But we don't have a vacuum here, we have ****storm of (false it would appear) rumors saying he is going to step down. Rumors that you helped push forward. Then, because of those rumors, somebody asks him if he is planning to step down, and he says no. Then you act like, out of nowhere somebody just asked him if he is returning, based only on the results of the season and not based on the false rumors. That is ridiculous, disingenuous and juvenile.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan I like Grant. I want to win.

Nice try.

[BeckysTXA]

According to what I read in the first post, a source close to the situation is the source. I wouldn’t say Grant was asked at all. We started getting players who are in the portal reporting Dayton had contacted them immediately. Sounds like everyone on the staff reported to work and have jumped all over the portal to fill next year’s roster. They would get that direction from the HC. I’d say actions speak the loudest, not speculation. Godspeed to the coaching staff to land the recruits we need to make the NCAAs next season.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

As I said in another thread, I just hope he makes a decision, is committed to his decision, and gives maximum effort.
Posted via Mobile Device

[forego1]

"Those not supportive - - they just want this coach gone so another has a chance." (I should not presume to speak for others, so I retract)

Originally Posted by Radar I was actually able to follow your grandiose back-pat post until the above statement, which couldn't be more wrong.

I don't understand where you're coming from. If posting on a fan message board one's ego is likely involved. So get past my ego...

Yes. My perception is that AG will never win another NCAA tournament game. Not ever.

My point is clear. If UD is to win another NCAA T game, it will be with another head coach.

To clarify your view (whatever that is), please tell me how many years of zero NCAA T wins would nudge you the direction of not wanting this coach.
Or, perhaps specify this is not a thing that matters. Breathe, relax, answer cogently...

[FlyingArrow]

I'm not sure exactly what the University's expectations are these days (numbers-wise), but I want to see the Flyers in the tournament 3 years out of 4, with one of those being a Sweet 16. I'm not expecting us to be a national title contender, but I think those are reasonable expectations given our resources and position.

The 2020 season was so great that it's worth multiple NCAA appearances. It was as great as our NCAA finals appearance. In fact, I'd trade 3 appearances (including a Sweet 16) for what we had in 2020. If we disagree, then I guess we just have a difference of opinion on how special that season was, which is fine.



So after 6 seasons, I see it like this...

* His first year a year of rebuilding (not counted)

* 2020 by itself covers the expectations of the next 4 years.

* This year was the first year that counts "against" Coach AG. If he's in the tournament each of the next 3 years with one of them being a Sweet 16, then he's on track. If he misses again, then we can talk about him being in the hot seat.

[shocka43]

Time to do work. As I have stated in other posts regardless of my opinions, if expectations aren't met next year Neil has decisions to make.

You can wish in one hand and **** in the other and we shall see which one fills up first. Let's hope things turn around and it now rides on retaining some talent.

[podcast411]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow I'm not sure exactly what the University's expectations are these days (numbers-wise), but I want to see the Flyers in the tournament 3 years out of 4, with one of those being a Sweet 16. I'm not expecting us to be a national title contender, but I think those are reasonable expectations given our resources and position. The 2020 season was so great that it's worth multiple NCAA appearances. It was as great as our NCAA finals appearance. In fact, I'd trade 3 appearances (including a Sweet 16) for what we had in 2020. If we disagree, then I guess we just have a difference of opinion on how special that season was, which is fine. So after 6 seasons, I see it like this... * His first year a year of rebuilding (not counted) * 2020 by itself covers the expectations of the next 4 years. * This year was the first year that counts "against" Coach AG. If he's in the tournament each of the next 3 years with one of them being a Sweet 16, then he's on track. If he misses again, then we can talk about him being in the hot seat.

Wait one second - don't you know - rational thoughts and ideas are not allowed on this forum board.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by forego1 To clarify your view (whatever that is), please tell me how many years of zero NCAA T wins would nudge you the direction of not wanting this coach. Or, perhaps specify this is not a thing that matters. Breathe, relax, answer cogently...

Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer, clearly a big chunk of posters are not comfortable answering this question, which seems to indicate that they have not come to terms with the possibility that Grant might not work out at UD, they don't even want to mentally consider that possibility if they can't formulate a time-line for Grant.

[Long time Flyer fan]

34 years post Donoher.

Jim Obrien 5 years 1 NCAA tournament 1 win 1 loss
Oliver Purnell 9 years 2 NCAA tournaments 0 wins 2 losses
Brian Gregory 8 years 2 NCAA tournaments 1 win 2 losses
Archie Miller 6 years 4 NCAA tournaments 5 wins 4 losses
Anthony Grant 6 years 0 NCAA tournaments 0 wins 0 losses If you count 19-20 as an earned bid 1 out of 6 is at the bottom of this list. Excuses about injuries and being the youngest team are not valid reasons.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by podcast411 Wait one second - don't you know - rational thoughts and ideas are not allowed on this forum board.

Oh that explains why we never get such out of you. Yes, it is allowed, so maybe you can prove to us that you are capable. You haven't so far.

[podcast411]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Oh that explains why we never get such out of you. Yes, it is allowed, so maybe you can prove to us that you are capable. You haven't so far.

I'll let you go first - since you brought it up. But I will not hold my breath.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Radar Nice try.

Its nothing personal on CAG or anyone on this board.

I just dont think he is the man for the job.

And I dont think a reporter went on to this site and then, based on random rantings, asked the question.

If he is back, fine. I personally dont want him back. But it is what it is.

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by Long time Flyer fan 34 years post Donoher. Jim Obrien 5 years 1 NCAA tournament 1 win 1 loss Oliver Purnell 9 years 2 NCAA tournaments 0 wins 2 losses Brian Gregory 8 years 2 NCAA tournaments 1 win 2 losses Archie Miller 6 years 4 NCAA tournaments 5 wins 4 losses Anthony Grant 6 years 0 NCAA tournaments 0 wins 0 losses If you count 19-20 as an earned bid 1 out of 6 is at the bottom of this list. Excuses about injuries and being the youngest team are not valid reasons.

I don't think you can count 19-20 as a miss or a maybe. We were going to be a 1-seed. Has that ever happened before at UD? I think not.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Jack D]

Now we know. Go get 'em AG!
Go Flyers!!!

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow I'm not sure exactly what the University's expectations are these days (numbers-wise), but I want to see the Flyers in the tournament 3 years out of 4, with one of those being a Sweet 16. I'm not expecting us to be a national title contender, but I think those are reasonable expectations given our resources and position. The 2020 season was so great that it's worth multiple NCAA appearances. It was as great as our NCAA finals appearance. In fact, I'd trade 3 appearances (including a Sweet 16) for what we had in 2020. If we disagree, then I guess we just have a difference of opinion on how special that season was, which is fine. So after 6 seasons, I see it like this... * His first year a year of rebuilding (not counted) * 2020 by itself covers the expectations of the next 4 years. * This year was the first year that counts "against" Coach AG. If he's in the tournament each of the next 3 years with one of them being a Sweet 16, then he's on track. If he misses again, then we can talk about him being in the hot seat.

Nothing like 5 warmup years.

[Long time Flyer fan]

Originally Posted by Fudd I don't think you can count 19-20 as a miss or a maybe. We were going to be a 1-seed. Has that ever happened before at UD? I think not.

1 out of 6 still puts Grant at the bottom of the list.

[pmcmullen]

I'm personally questioning how seriously Neil takes accountability. Miss the Dance next year, and I will have the only answer I'll need for the remainder of his tenure - AG being neutral in anything at that point.

No more BS and no more excuses, regardless of the situation. I'll always be a Reds fan, but I refuse to dedicate any of my time or money to the program as it is now. All i need is a quick score check. UD is reaching that point. No more dedicating thousands of dollars or hours of life after another year of proving exactly how mediocre this team is allowed to be.

Next year is 100% it.

[zmz723]

Completely expected but still disappointing.

The people saying “next year should be do or die” are hilarious…that was supposed to be this year. Injuries are not an excuse when the 2 A-10 first teamers were healthy all year

What will the excuses be next year when they don’t make the NCAAs yet again? (Hope I’m wrong!)
Posted via Mobile Device

[zmz723]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow I'm not sure exactly what the University's expectations are these days (numbers-wise), but I want to see the Flyers in the tournament 3 years out of 4, with one of those being a Sweet 16. I'm not expecting us to be a national title contender, but I think those are reasonable expectations given our resources and position. The 2020 season was so great that it's worth multiple NCAA appearances. It was as great as our NCAA finals appearance. In fact, I'd trade 3 appearances (including a Sweet 16) for what we had in 2020. If we disagree, then I guess we just have a difference of opinion on how special that season was, which is fine. * 2020 by itself covers the expectations of the next 4 years. *.

That’s…not how it works. 2018-2019 was a huge underachievement given what we know about 2019-2020. 2020-2021 was also a huge underachievement with the senior guards, and so many other teams more negatively affected from Covid.

And now with the portal there should be no rebuilding year BS anymore. Look at what Shaka has done his first 2 years at Marquette
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[Hyde Park Flyer]

Per Jablo’s update, they met to find out who was staying and leaving. We’ve had 1 more announcement since then. It’s possible that we won’t see anymore. If you’re going, why would you wait to announce. It’s possible.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer Per Jablo’s update, they met to find out who was staying and leaving. We’ve had 1 more announcement since then. It’s possible that we won’t see anymore. If you’re going, why would you wait to announce. It’s possible. Posted via Mobile Device

2 players not wanting to put their names in the portal until they make a firm decision whether they'll enter their names in the NBA draft.

I also believe some players probably have heard from other programs prior to this, and have narrowed their decision down to 3 or 4 teams and don't want a constant barrage of calls from others that he won't consider. Then when the name goes in, he'll name his new destination within a day or two. I believe Jacob Toppin probably did this.

The only one that puzzles me is Zimi. His name should've been the first in the portal.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by zmz723 That’s…not how it works. 2018-2019 was a huge underachievement given what we know about 2019-2020. 2020-2021 was also a huge underachievement with the senior guards, and so many other teams more negatively affected from Covid.

That's... exactly how opinions work. I gave mine. Feel free to have your own.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

There is no good reason to not give as much notice as possible to any potential suitors. None.
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[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Per Jeff Goodman “Dayton’s Anthony Grant has no plans to retire and will be back coaching next season, a source close to the situation told @stadium. Grant’s plan is to get the Flyers back to the NCAA tourney with a healthy group.” Haters in shambles Posted via Mobile Device

Fans of NCAA tournament appearances in shambles
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[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer There is no good reason to not give as much notice as possible to any potential suitors. None. Posted via Mobile Device

Yes there is. If you already have your choices down to 3 or 4, why would you want to spend anymore time listening to 100 others giving you their spiel? Your job now is determining which of those 3 or 4 programs you are going to choose. Wasting times on others is just a distraction.

It's like saying "Why put requirements on a job posting, why not just have everyone plus their grandmothers send in a resume?"

Here's my prediction, if/when Mike puts his name into the portal, he will announce within a day or two his new program. Why? Because he's done all the preliminary work before putting his name in the portal.

Also, don't forget these guys went through the recruiting process previously and probable had a 2nd and 3rd choice other than Dayton. They might want to touch base with these coaches first before being bombarded by every college coach, especially the quad 3 and 4 coaches,.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by Long time Flyer fan 34 years post Donoher. Jim Obrien 5 years 1 NCAA tournament 1 win 1 loss Oliver Purnell 9 years 2 NCAA tournaments 0 wins 2 losses Brian Gregory 8 years 2 NCAA tournaments 1 win 2 losses Archie Miller 6 years 4 NCAA tournaments 5 wins 4 losses Anthony Grant 6 years 0 NCAA tournaments 0 wins 0 losses If you count 19-20 as an earned bid 1 out of 6 is at the bottom of this list. Excuses about injuries and being the youngest team are not valid reasons.

Prior to AG, every UD coach since 1947 has taken the Flyers to the NCAA tournament. I'm rooting for AG, but I am very concerned (the COVID 19-20 season notwithstanding).

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Yes there is. If you already have your choices down to 3 or 4, why would you want to spend anymore time listening to 100 others giving you their spiel? Your job now is determining which of those 3 or 4 programs you are going to choose. Wasting times on others is just a distraction. It's like saying "Why put requirements on a job posting, why not just have everyone plus their grandmothers send in a resume?" Here's my prediction, if/when Mike puts his name into the portal, he will announce within a day or two his new program. Why? Because he's done all the preliminary work before putting his name in the portal.

Even if you don't know where you want to go, if you preferred destination is still playing basketball then there's a reason to wait to enter the portal. Suppose you enter early and hear from Other School Y, but then blow them off until Favorite Team X is eliminated. If you wait until after Favorite Team X starts paying more attention to the portal than the next game, then you could lose your chance with Other School Y. No need to broadcast to Other School Y that they were second choice.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Fudd I don't think you can count 19-20 as a miss or a maybe. We were going to be a 1-seed. Has that ever happened before at UD? I think not.

So what if it said 6 years with 1 NCAAt? Pick your W and L record in 2020.

It really doesn't change the argument. That season was lightning in a bottle. It's the exception, not the norm under AG.

The point is 1 season does not issue a free pass. One would have thought that 1 seed would have translated into momentum and results. It hasn't.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Even if you don't know where you want to go, if you preferred destination is still playing basketball then there's a reason to wait to enter the portal. Suppose you enter early and hear from Other School Y, but then blow them off until Favorite Team X is eliminated. If you wait until after Favorite Team X starts paying more attention to the portal than the next game, then you could lose your chance with Other School Y. No need to broadcast to Other School Y that they were second choice.

Exactly. Great point. There's a psychology to it also. If a coach calls you and says they want you and you say "I want to explore all my possibilities first" right then a coach might say "screw him, I want someone who wants to be here, not someone who wants to be somewhere else but settles for here".

Big difference than telling the same coach "I'm pleased you are interested and the interest is very mutual, let me get back to you in a couple days with my final answer".

What I'm saying is if you offer someone something, there's a big difference in saying "I'll get back to you in 2 weeks" and "I'll get back to you in 2 days".

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Prior to AG, every UD coach since 1947 has taken the Flyers to the NCAA tournament. I'm rooting for AG, but I am very concerned (the COVID 19-20 season notwithstanding).

Another example of people who selectively count the same thing in different scenarios. When telling us all about the mighty VCU they count both 19-20 and last year. No asterisk, no zeroes. But a #1 seed which has never happened here in their mind still has never happened here.

I'm wondering how many of these thinkers would have been fine not getting their big annual bonuses at work 2 years in a row because according to the company handbook they had to be picked up in person after an in person review. Especially when the boss simply tells them they didn't earn it because they couldn't pick it up as prescribed.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Exactly. Great point. There's a psychology to it also. If a coach calls you and says they want you and you say "I want to explore all my possibilities first" right then a coach might say "screw him, I want someone who wants to be here, not someone who wants to be somewhere else but settles for here". Big difference than telling the same coach "I'm pleased you are interested and the interest is very mutual, let me get back to you in a couple days with my final answer". What I'm saying is if you offer someone something, there's a big difference in saying "I'll get back to you in 2 weeks" and "I'll get back to you in 2 days".

Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

The good news is that the A10 could be even worse next year
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Exactly. Great point. There's a psychology to it also. If a coach calls you and says they want you and you say "I want to explore all my possibilities first" right then a coach might say "screw him, I want someone who wants to be here, not someone who wants to be somewhere else but settles for here". Big difference than telling the same coach "I'm pleased you are interested and the interest is very mutual, let me get back to you in a couple days with my final answer". What I'm saying is if you offer someone something, there's a big difference in saying "I'll get back to you in 2 weeks" and "I'll get back to you in 2 days".

That is just silly. The players and teams acknowledge the role and influence of NIL deals. Let the suitors out their offers together. It’s quite easy to say “thanks, coach. I’ll be making a decision after all teams have an opportunity to let me know of any interest. I take this decision seriously, and want to consider everything sonIncan make the best decision for me.” Very easy.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer That is just silly. The players and teams acknowledge the role and influence of NIL deals. Let the suitors out their offers together. It’s quite easy to say “thanks, coach. I’ll be making a decision after all teams have an opportunity to let me know of any interest. I take this decision seriously, and want to consider everything sonIncan make the best decision for me.” Very easy. Posted via Mobile Device

Good lord. If he's got it narrowed down to 3 or 4 programs, I'm sure the NIL deals that come with have all been presented.

There's always going to be something a little better in money offered if you wait long enough, but probably not significantly higher.

And besides, who other than the 2 that might be deciding if they want to enter their names in the NBA draft would demand enough NIL money to make a difference?

Hell, if being in it early is the only way to go, why in the hell did RJ put his name in it a day later than Amzil? If it's a ready-set-go type of deal, wouldn't they both be in it the same day? If you're going to ask why wait any longer, well, why wait a day longer?

Okay enough of this. If other names trickle into the portal, you can tell me they were stupid, or you can admit you were wrong. I don't care. But there are reasons.

[Bucketnight]

Not that it matters... and I know it doesn't.

i will always support the coach. The idea that someone wants failure to prove their opinion is right makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

That being said nobody, regardless of their pedigree should get a free pass. Number 3 in the country buys my goodwill... but only for so long. I'm getting close. To think there is no tournament is nothing short of assinine. To think it buys everlasting tenure is equally so. I don't get the full polarization. There is no either or. I want AG to succeed next year and every year after. If it doesn't work, then I want a replacement that will.

How does anyone root against us?! Is your petty little ego that important that YOU were right?!

The pieces clearly did not fit last year. Clearly. Was it the 1st time we held a scholarship? It bit us... but only if we had the right person to step in. I don't think the landscape is that clear any more. We are going to have plenty of defection. I stated in an earler post that it would get ugly when someone transferred "up". This roster didn't work. I will always wish a kid well if he leaves as long as they didn't embarrass the university/program... I get that not everyone feels the same.

What I want more than anything now is ON COURT leadership. I haven't seen that. I've seen wide open missed shots. I've seen a lack of toughness. I won't miss it from the portal entries I've seen and not sure I will completely see it whoever leaves.

I've never bought into the rosed colored glasses crowd. But it's tough to look at some eyores posting every 6 seconds with a level of vitriol toward a coach that is only a few years removed from a Top 3 finish with anything other than confusion. Seriously, there are posters that want failure so they can be right. Hell, I would rather have a 1970's 4 to score offense than lose regardless of how it looks. (I will explain the St. Joes Hawk Walk in a private message to anyone that wants a lesson in slow}.

I'm frustrated. I think we all are. I can't conceive of my frustration leading to rooting for us to lose so a coach can be replaced. I want AG to win... badly. If it doesn't happen then I want someone who will. But ****, number 3 in the country is not something that should be easily dismissed... as for most of us it was BY FAR the best finish we have had.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by Viperstick Prior to AG, every UD coach since 1947 has taken the Flyers to the NCAA tournament. I'm rooting for AG, but I am very concerned (the COVID 19-20 season notwithstanding).

Since 1947 there has only been ONE coach who's taken Dayton to an NCAA Final: Don Donoher. And realistically, even that year Dayton really had no chance of winning unless Kareem goes down early with an injury. I started following or actually became cognizant of Dayton that year, my parents were huge Dayton fans. Since then, sporadically, Dayton has had teams in the NCAA but in any year that Dayton did make the field, I've never had even a fleeting moment of belief that Dayton could actually make the Final 4, let alone win it all - except 2020. AG was a big part of the success at Florida when they won 2 National Championships with respect to recruiting - for which this board never, ever acknowledges that fact. I don't believe it was "lightening in a bottle". I believe with the right personnel and buy in, it'll happen again.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Good lord. If he's got it narrowed down to 3 or 4 programs, I'm sure the NIL deals that come with have all been presented. There's always going to be something a little better in money offered if you wait long enough, but probably not significantly higher. And besides, who other than the 2 that might be deciding if they want to enter their names in the NBA draft would demand enough NIL money to make a difference? Hell, if being in it early is the only way to go, why in the hell did RJ put his name in it a day later than Amzil? If it's a ready-set-go type of deal, wouldn't they both be in it the same day? If you're going to ask why wait any longer, well, why wait a day longer? Okay enough of this. If other names trickle into the portal, you can tell me they were stupid, or you can admit you were wrong. I don't care. But there are reasons.

There are players who are uncertain about their decision. That might strike you as odd, but it’s certainly realistic. And, I dare say, is not infrequent. Players have spent time in a community where they have certainly built some positive relationships. They may be talking to others about what is realistic to expect. The bottom line is that many are just not certain and wait until they are ready. Some are simply more prepared to make a decision quicker than others. It really isn’t that tough to figure it out.

Alas, it would be delightful if you truly are done with this discussion. My guess is you aren’t.
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[springborofan]

Originally Posted by Long time Flyer fan 1 out of 6 still puts Grant at the bottom of the list.

Feel free to give me reasons why you don’t want AG as coach. We can agree on some points and disagree on others. That said, you are either completely irrational, too young to understand, or just a complete fool to indicate in any way that coach Grant’s results fall below Jim O’Brien. Honestly “Long time Flyer Fan”, you’ve already lost any credibility after EIGHT POSTS!

Go find a rock to crawl under…

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer There are players who are uncertain about their decision. That might strike you as odd, but it’s certainly realistic. And, I dare say, is not infrequent. Players have spent time in a community where they have certainly built some positive relationships. They may be talking to others about what is realistic to expect. The bottom line is that many are just not certain and wait until they are ready. Some are simply more prepared to make a decision quicker than others. It really isn’t that tough to figure it out. Alas, it would be delightful if you truly are done with this discussion. My guess is you aren’t. Posted via Mobile Device

I said "enough of this" not I'm done. You continued, so will I. Mike's mind is made up one way or another. If he goes in the portal it won't be because he was still deciding whether to leave or not, it's that he's doing preliminary work at least prior to entering his name. If he stays, I will be shocked and this conversation is moot unless he says he was still deciding and stayed which in turn I'll admit I was wrong(some people who stay don't have to say anything). But I think his decision is already made whether he stays or goes.

Oh, and if you think RJ's decision wasn't made until today, I got some swamp land I'd like to sell you.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Another example of people who selectively count the same thing in different scenarios. When telling us all about the mighty VCU they count both 19-20 and last year. No asterisk, no zeroes. But a #1 seed which has never happened here in their mind still has never happened here. I'm wondering how many of these thinkers would have been fine not getting their big annual bonuses at work 2 years in a row because according to the company handbook they had to be picked up in person after an in person review. Especially when the boss simply tells them they didn't earn it because they couldn't pick it up as prescribed.

If you can show me where we were a #1 seed I will agree with you.

[steverino015]

This can be a great opportunity .
I hope Mike returns, he will be vital..
Can Mali drive the lane and dish it, he
could average 10 assists/game

can we stop fouling 3 pt shooters?
can we hold double digit leads
can we close out end of half and games
without looking like the Keystone Cops

rooting for CAG, but I have serious
doubts here.... we will see, hoping for
a really good season...

we need guards, would prefer some
who can shoot the basketball with confidence.
and can handle the rock...

[podcast411]

So happy to watch the Anti-AG crowd go into full on meltdown mode.

For me - this is great news. So happy AG will be back. And can't wait to revisit this string a year from now.

In the mean time - I have the popcorn out - and just thoroughly enjoying the meltdown. Smity and Maddog keep them coming. Munch Munch.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think Grant is a terrible coach. And I'm glad he's coming back. This team is mostly likely going nowhere next season and it could be our worst in a long time. We don't need the AG pumpers blaming the next guy for the mess that AG created.

Originally Posted by podcast411 So happy to watch the Anti-AG crowd go into full on meltdown mode. For me - this is great news. So happy AG will be back. And can't wait to revisit this string a year from now. In the mean time - I have the popcorn out - and just thoroughly enjoying the meltdown. Smity and Maddog keep them coming. Munch Munch.

Hey it's spelled Smitty.

And hey, I'm glad our failure of a coach is returning, no meltdown for me over this. Read my first post in this thread that I quoted for you. He now gets to sleep in the bed he made, and that makes me very happy.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Since 1947 there has only been ONE coach who's taken Dayton to an NCAA Final: Don Donoher. And realistically, even that year Dayton really had no chance of winning unless Kareem goes down early with an injury. I started following or actually became cognizant of Dayton that year, my parents were huge Dayton fans. Since then, sporadically, Dayton has had teams in the NCAA but in any year that Dayton did make the field, I've never had even a fleeting moment of belief that Dayton could actually make the Final 4, let alone win it all - except 2020. AG was a big part of the success at Florida when they won 2 National Championships with respect to recruiting - for which this board never, ever acknowledges that fact. I don't believe it was "lightening in a bottle". I believe with the right personnel and buy in, it'll happen again.

I too thought that UD had a chance to advance to the Final Four in 2019-20.

But I also knew as this year has proven (see Purdue, Kansas) and a few times that the Zag's were #1 seeds in previous years along with a few others past that just getting into the FF is tuff enough let alone surviving to be the National Champs is a mountain higher to climb.

I think the question in my mind and maybe others on here is WHEN will it be happening again. AG may be that guy to do it again and then maybe not. Not a knock on AG just a question whether it can be done again soon (as in the next couple years). I think with the transition of the team composition up in the air at this time, next year most likely not one of those times.

With Grant staying it puts an end to the question of consistency in the main coaching staff. Now all we need to see is some consistency of personnel in how they (who ever they are) play game to game.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Another example of people who selectively count the same thing in different scenarios. When telling us all about the mighty VCU they count both 19-20 and last year. No asterisk, no zeroes. But a #1 seed which has never happened here in their mind still has never happened here. I'm wondering how many of these thinkers would have been fine not getting their big annual bonuses at work 2 years in a row because according to the company handbook they had to be picked up in person after an in person review. Especially when the boss simply tells them they didn't earn it because they couldn't pick it up as prescribed.

Yes it has never ever happened ..... sorry to say but since there was NO NCAA Selection Sunday Show the #1 seed assigned to UD is only resident in one's mind.

You will never find any list or bracket (that's official) of UD being #1. Discussion and talk yea but NADA, ZIP, ZERO on actually being #1.

You could mention it as in a BS session with your buds as UD would have been a #1 seed but the games were cancelled so we will never know for sure.

Just like an athlete who everyone proclaims is the faster miler going to the Olympics and likely getting a Gold only the games are cancelled. Was he the fastest miler of those Olympics? Did he get the Gold? NO never happened.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

I agree that it’s disingenuous for folks to pretend that UD wouldn’t have made the tourney in 19-20. UD was a lock. Period. I do agree that the #1 seed wasn’t a lock as a loss in the A10 tournament may have knocked them down a line (or 2?). Regardless, UD was #3 when the regular season ended. I can accept that assembling a Top 10 roster may involve more risk. UD isn’t Kansas, and we can’t recruit top recruits at every position. The players developed and came together as a team. The stars lined up, and we were nasty good. What if the stars didn’t line up? What if we didn’t have the most efficient offense? What if we struggled from 3? What if we struggled to hold leads AND lost (SLU?)? Could that season have ended similar to 22-23? Maybe. It could be that the risk was realized this year, and the reward was realized in 19-20. It’s exciting to think we could be on or close to that edge. I don’t know. I do think we are closer rather than farther. IF…big IF…AG is trying to solve that risk-reward riddle, I can handle it. I’m in the group that wants to see UD play on the 3rd weekend and can accept that playing in the 1st round a couple of times is sacrificed while pursuing the chance to get it seriously right. I don’t think RJ was going to be on that 3rd weekend team. Amzil could be that guy, but he wants more playing time (which means that he really wasn’t the team guy that’s needed…that part stinks). AG wasn’t too far away this year. Injuries and personal issues surely were a major factor in falling way short this year. It’s disingenuous to not recognize this year as disappointing.

Now, Grant has little time to get things to line up again. That worries me. Look how often gamblers lose…really lose…when they try to recover their losses. Grant has to take risks but only acceptable risks (not acceptable risks are like Richard). It’s tough not to push too much. It’s tough not to hope too much. It’s tough not to back away from the risk because the potential win is too big (and too remote). I hope I’m wrong. I hope that AG finally wins the portal game. I hope that he keeps the critical pieces. I hope that I’m not hoping against hope.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[superfan99]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think Grant is a terrible coach. And I'm glad he's coming back. This team is mostly likely going nowhere next season and it could be our worst in a long time. We don't need the AG pumpers blaming the next guy for the mess that AG created.

Originally Posted by Smitty10 And hey, I'm glad our failure of a coach is returning, no meltdown for me over this. Read my first post in this thread that I quoted for you. He now gets to sleep in the bed he made, and that makes me very happy.

Smitty, out of all the things you say, I find this the craziest. It sounds like you would rather UD fail just to prove you are right about Grant than for UD to succeed. That is a strange stance. Even if I have an unfavorable opinion about a coach or player, I always am rooting for UD to succeed. It sounds like you are not a fan of the team anymore.

I don't feel the same way about AG as you, but if I did, I would want him gone immediately, so we can start to turn the ship around. I wouldn't be concerned about who is going to get credit or blame for next year's results.

[CoffeeCan]

Not sure if any of you noticed... but I am not the biggest believer in CAG as UD coach at this time. But he 100% gets credit for 2019-2020.

Yes, a 1 and 2 seed could lose. But I just am focused on winning and making the tournament for now.

CAG wants back? Finish what he started? Fine.
But this should be the prove it year then.

So far... exactly one accepted scholarship for next year. Two left this week, on top of the open scholarship that was never filled and Weaver's spot.

He wants a challenge? Unfinished business? Ok. No more excuses if we are in the same place next year.

[rollo]

NIL and the Transfer Portal combined with immature egos will lead to multiple transfers every year for most teams. That's the new normal. So while most of you are watching UD player Twitter accounts and using Blakney and Mustafa and ????'s transfers as a sign that Grant has lost it, I'm watching something else.

Assistant Coaches.

If Grant has lost 'it'...the fire to coach, the drive to recruit 24/7, adjust, motivate, teach and develop...the assistants know it.

Any assistant coach with any desire to one day be a head coach will jump ship if the Head Coach they report to and work for isn't teaching/preparing them for the next promotion. If you're a young assistant with fresh ideas, plays, drills, strategies and your head coach ignores your input, effort and outlook, you would be a fool to stay where you are.

Assistant coaches talk amongst themselves away from the head coach more than you would believe. If any of them believe they are wasting their time working for someone who is holding back their development, they will leave.

So you watch the tweets and I'll watch the assistants. The truth is out there. ..and Jablo won't be the one to report it.

Now I get back to my vacation?

[UD62]

In this world of NIL and unlimited transfer rules, we are in the rent a player business. As a fan since '51, I find myself losing interest in the Flyers as they are less and less a part of the U, but rather a seperate group with little connection to the school as a whole. Given the new rules I don't blame the players for cutting and running, I just am finding it harder and harder to support the team in the same way I have in the past. More and more teams will become like Kentucky, where you will need a program to see who is on this years team. Want to see them win but it ain't like it used to be.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by rollo NIL and the Transfer Portal combined with immature egos will lead to multiple transfers every year for most teams. That's the new normal. So while most of you are watching UD player Twitter accounts and using Blakney and Mustafa and ????'s transfers as a sign that Grant has lost it, I'm watching something else. Assistant Coaches. If Grant has lost 'it'...the fire to coach, the drive to recruit 24/7, adjust, motivate, teach and develop...the assistants know it. Any assistant coach with any desire to one day be a head coach will jump ship if the Head Coach they report to and work for isn't teaching/preparing them for the next promotion. If you're a young assistant with fresh ideas, plays, drills, strategies and your head coach ignores your input, effort and outlook, you would be a fool to stay where you are. Assistant coaches talk amongst themselves away from the head coach more than you would believe. If any of them believe they are wasting their time working for someone who is holding back their development, they will leave. So you watch the tweets and I'll watch the assistants. The truth is out there. ..and Jablo won't be the one to report it. Now I get back to my vacation?

All good points. I am on vacation as well!

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by rollo NIL and the Transfer Portal combined with immature egos will lead to multiple transfers every year for most teams. That's the new normal. So while most of you are watching UD player Twitter accounts and using Blakney and Mustafa and ????'s transfers as a sign that Grant has lost it, I'm watching something else. Assistant Coaches. If Grant has lost 'it'...the fire to coach, the drive to recruit 24/7, adjust, motivate, teach and develop...the assistants know it. Any assistant coach with any desire to one day be a head coach will jump ship if the Head Coach they report to and work for isn't teaching/preparing them for the next promotion. If you're a young assistant with fresh ideas, plays, drills, strategies and your head coach ignores your input, effort and outlook, you would be a fool to stay where you are. Assistant coaches talk amongst themselves away from the head coach more than you would believe. If any of them believe they are wasting their time working for someone who is holding back their development, they will leave. So you watch the tweets and I'll watch the assistants. The truth is out there. ..and Jablo won't be the one to report it. Now I get back to my vacation?

Agree with most of your assessment. AG's relationships in both Pro and college level circles are wide & deep. To your point, that is an attribute assistants recognize, and value as part of the equation to improve their respective career. When that reaches a tipping point, then departures will happen. Keep in mind, those that rose up with Apple likely had the same conviction that rose up with SVB. It was all great, until it wasn't.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I agree that it’s disingenuous for folks to pretend that UD wouldn’t have made the tourney in 19-20. UD was a lock. Period. I do agree that the #1 seed wasn’t a lock as a loss in the A10 tournament may have knocked them down a line (or 2?). Regardless, UD was #3 when the regular season ended. I can accept that assembling a Top 10 roster may involve more risk. UD isn’t Kansas, and we can’t recruit top recruits at every position. The players developed and came together as a team. The stars lined up, and we were nasty good. What if the stars didn’t line up? What if we didn’t have the most efficient offense? What if we struggled from 3? What if we struggled to hold leads AND lost (SLU?)? Could that season have ended similar to 22-23? Maybe. It could be that the risk was realized this year, and the reward was realized in 19-20. It’s exciting to think we could be on or close to that edge. I don’t know. I do think we are closer rather than farther. IF…big IF…AG is trying to solve that risk-reward riddle, I can handle it. I’m in the group that wants to see UD play on the 3rd weekend and can accept that playing in the 1st round a couple of times is sacrificed while pursuing the chance to get it seriously right. I don’t think RJ was going to be on that 3rd weekend team. Amzil could be that guy, but he wants more playing time (which means that he really wasn’t the team guy that’s needed…that part stinks). AG wasn’t too far away this year. Injuries and personal issues surely were a major factor in falling way short this year. It’s disingenuous to not recognize this year as disappointing. Now, Grant has little time to get things to line up again. That worries me. Look how often gamblers lose…really lose…when they try to recover their losses. Grant has to take risks but only acceptable risks (not acceptable risks are like Richard). It’s tough not to push too much. It’s tough not to hope too much. It’s tough not to back away from the risk because the potential win is too big (and too remote). I hope I’m wrong. I hope that AG finally wins the portal game. I hope that he keeps the critical pieces. I hope that I’m not hoping against hope. Posted via Mobile Device

I'm just trying to understand this, if you try to build a team that can reach the 3rd weekend, which may happen once every six years or so, you are foregoing the chance to make the tournament the other five years? You can't have a team capable of making the 3rd weekend one year and other teams that make the tourney (even if it's a 1st or 2nd round loss) in at least a few of the other five years? Feast or famine only?

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[OSU Flyer]

@robmurray
I know you and your crew always point to Archie make 4 NCAA tournaments which was great. But what would have happened if Scoochie was hurt for significant parts of two seasons? What if Trey and Scoochie missed 12 games in a season? IMO they don’t get a bid.

@adamg1224
There are always potential excuses. Below average coaches rely on them to make people believe he’s not below average. Good coaches find a way.

@heigely_weigley
Archie literally had a season of 6 scholarship guys + 1 walk-on and won multiple NCAAT games

@robmurray
My point is you can’t judge Archie and Grant without context. No season is perfect but Grant has dealt with significant injuries and youth the last two seasons. Not to mention his own personal losses this past summer.

@MrH42
What are you even talking about? One of his rotation players died! He had to play a walk on significant minutes!! Champions adjust.

@adamg1224
I didn’t even want to bring up Steve, who wasn’t going to be a rotation player. He was going to be an elite rim protector and starter.

There’s no logic behind believing in AG beyond “I think one of the biggest single season outliers a coach has ever had is repeatable”

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer @robmurray There’s no logic behind believing in AG beyond “I think one of the biggest single season outliers a coach has ever had is repeatable”

Disagree 100%. Just because you don't see it or accept it doesn't make it not logical.
Perhaps it could be that your way of concluding is illogical? You can call it an outlier but it was year 3. It took him 3 years to bring about what every other coach since 1970 combined has never done.

If it's an outlier, he's in great company. No one but no one expected either elite 8 to happen. 2020 I expected E8 or better as did countless others. That 'outlier' you dismiss is worth gold to those who have followed for decades and never seen.

After that year he brought in a great core of young guys he felt could build and repeat that. It's very logical to believe that without injuries the past 2 years, both teams could have gotten bids and this year could have been a team with at least Sweet if not Elite.

Being just 20 minutes away 2 seasons in a row makes it logical to see things that way without the unprecedented injuries.

Cherry picking cases to prove your point doesn't make your case. For every AM team that kept his core guys without injuries and made the tourney, there are plenty of good teams with good coaches where injuries did remove their chances.

He couldn't even win the last 2 years with these same guys as Jrs and Srs or get a single bid in 4 years at Indiana where 8+ conference teams make the tourney every year. Is it more logical to believe that he forget how to coach after he left or to accept that it isn't as easy and formulistic as you and a few others like to portray it?

I've got $20 bucks for anyone who compiles the list of teams that meet the armchairs 3/6+ consistently over a 20 year span. I'll bet a double or nothing additional $20 that the list does not exceed 30. That's at least 10 bids and at least 3 every 6 since that is how you are counting it here.

[ud2]

Having read most of the posts recently, I definitely get the feeling that even if we miss the ncaat next year, a sizeable chunk of the fan base will want to retain Coach Grant for an 8th year.

We will have to see what happens in 23-24. We may end up retaining Grant for at least 8 years like SLU is apparently doing with Ford.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 Having read most of the posts recently, I definitely get the feeling that even if we miss the ncaat next year, a sizeable chunk of the fan base will want to retain Coach Grant for an 8th year. We will have to see what happens in 23-24. We may end up retaining Grant for at least 8 years like SLU is apparently doing with Ford.

There's no doubt about it. All of the "ifs, ands, and buts" are what they are hanging their hats on. Next year, if we fail to meet our goals again, there will be additional "reasons" why and the next year will be our magical year. Success is always just around the corner from us.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan There's no doubt about it. All of the "ifs, ands, and buts" are what they are hanging their hats on. Next year, if we fail to meet our goals again, there will be additional "reasons" why and the next year will be our magical year. Success is always just around the corner from us.

If's ands and buts are just realities and factors that any good leader and decision maker will weight appropriately, including both unprecedented situations of injuries and #1 seed and make a logical, sound decision against all the actual expectations, not just a made up 4/6.

I know for certain that ncaa bids is only 1 factor in the equation and that AG's character and the upswing in fan and student support play a factor much larger than any of the armchairs think it should. That's not really saying anything though as it plays 0% in their 'logical' (correctly spelled 'emotional') method of decisioning.

I reserve judgement for after next year to see what happens between now and then. To make definitive statements now based only on a single criteria - an ncaa bid - is just stupid.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer If's ands and buts are just realities and factors that any good leader and decision maker will weight appropriately, including both unprecedented situations of injuries and #1 seed and make a logical, sound decision against all the actual expectations, not just a made up 4/6. I know for certain that ncaa bids is only 1 factor in the equation and that AG's character and the upswing in fan and student support play a factor much larger than any of the armchairs think it should. That's not really saying anything though as it plays 0% in their 'logical' (correctly spelled 'emotional') method of decisioning. I reserve judgement for after next year to see what happens between now and then. To make definitive statements now based only on a single criteria - an ncaa bid - is just stupid.

The injuries are not unprecedented, these type of situations happen somewhat frequently. It is hard to quantify how often these type of situations happen since iinm nobody tracks frequency of injuries and keeps stats on frequency of injuries.

The injuries rationale would be more plausible if Grant wasn't 1/6.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Disagree 100%. Just because you don't see it or accept it doesn't make it not logical. Perhaps it could be that your way of concluding is illogical? You can call it an outlier but it was year 3. It took him 3 years to bring about what every other coach since 1970 combined has never done. If it's an outlier, he's in great company. No one but no one expected either elite 8 to happen. 2020 I expected E8 or better as did countless others. That 'outlier' you dismiss is worth gold to those who have followed for decades and never seen. After that year he brought in a great core of young guys he felt could build and repeat that. It's very logical to believe that without injuries the past 2 years, both teams could have gotten bids and this year could have been a team with at least Sweet if not Elite. Being just 20 minutes away 2 seasons in a row makes it logical to see things that way without the unprecedented injuries. Cherry picking cases to prove your point doesn't make your case. For every AM team that kept his core guys without injuries and made the tourney, there are plenty of good teams with good coaches where injuries did remove their chances. He couldn't even win the last 2 years with these same guys as Jrs and Srs or get a single bid in 4 years at Indiana where 8+ conference teams make the tourney every year. Is it more logical to believe that he forget how to coach after he left or to accept that it isn't as easy and formulistic as you and a few others like to portray it? I've got $20 bucks for anyone who compiles the list of teams that meet the armchairs 3/6+ consistently over a 20 year span. I'll bet a double or nothing additional $20 that the list does not exceed 30. That's at least 10 bids and at least 3 every 6 since that is how you are counting it here.

I think this gives the game away. Unprecedented injuries for AG this year, he gets a pass

Archie has a starter literally die and Josh Cunningham get hurt and comeback way less than a 100%, loses to a Wichita State team with a 1st round pick, failure
Posted via Mobile Device

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer Per Jablo’s update, they met to find out who was staying and leaving. We’ve had 1 more announcement since then. It’s possible that we won’t see anymore. If you’re going, why would you wait to announce. It’s possible. Posted via Mobile Device

Perhaps they don’t want to trespass on another guy’s headline.

I’m certainly hoping there are more . Only two guys are irreplaceable. A healthy Mali might be worth holding on to but that high risk in that he may never be a top tier guard given his fragility. Everyone else are marginal at best. Assuming Deuce and Camara return, Grant need to to surround them with players that can share the load and get us away from being a one dimensional offense… throw it to DH2 and let him back his way in.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer I know for certain that ncaa bids is only 1 factor in the equation and that AG's character and the upswing in fan and student support play a factor much larger than any of the armchairs think it should. That's not really saying anything though as it plays 0% in their 'logical' (correctly spelled 'emotional') method of decisioning.

Fair enough, that sounds very plausible. The budgetary bottom line is very important.

I just think that fan support could potentially drop significantly if we keep losing. I don't think that fan support dropping is always linear or gradual, I think sometimes it can sort of drop off a cliff without warning, and it can be hard to get many of those fans back once they have left.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Fair enough, that sounds very plausible. The budgetary bottom line is very important. I just think that fan support could potentially drop significantly if we keep losing. I don't think that fan support dropping is always linear or gradual, I think sometimes it can sort of drop off a cliff without warning, and it can be hard to get many of those fans back once they have left.

There’s no doubt about it
Posted via Mobile Device