can recruit...Cant coach...period

marparflyer98 · #1 11-16-2008, 10:58 PM

There is no reason this should of been a game tonight. As far as the athletes are concerned the UD Flyers were Men among Boys. Unfortanately b/c of the style of play or lack there of, any team we play this year is going to give us a run for our money...good or bad.

The difference b/tw good and great teams is that you play above your talent level against other great teams and you destroy talent level that shouldn't be on the same court as you. Unfortunately, we won't ever see the difference b/c the offensive set we play never allows our athletes to unleash their abilities.

There is no question we have more athletetic talent on this team like none this town has ever seen before. It is too bad we won't ever see it unleashed properly and on a consistent basis b/c their not allowed to.

Canonball · #2 11-16-2008, 11:02 PM

98-60 in five years.

longtimefan · #3 11-16-2008, 11:04 PM

I would be cautious using words like "won't ever" and "never."

Canonball · #4 11-16-2008, 11:05 PM

Oops I was wrong.

99-60 after tonight ;-)

masonflyer · #5 11-16-2008, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by marparflyer98

There is no reason this should of been a game tonight. As far as the athletes are concerned the UD Flyers were Men among Boys. Unfortanately b/c of the style of play or lack there of, any team we play this year is going to give us a run for our money...good or bad.

The difference b/tw good and great teams is that you play above your talent level against other great teams and you destroy talent level that shouldn't be on the same court as you. Unfortunately, we won't ever see the difference b/c the offensive set we play never allows our athletes to unleash their abilities.

There is no question we have more athletetic talent on this team like none this town has ever seen before. It is too bad we won't ever see it unleashed properly and on a consistent basis b/c their not allowed to.

My jury is still out on BG, but I can't blame him for tonight. He can't go out and make plays. I'm also not sure about how great a recruiter he is. If he was a great recruiter we would have a decent point guard. Let's give it more than a game before condemning him. In basketball it's not the athletes that win, but often better players can beat better athletes.

JimBo · #6 11-16-2008, 11:22 PM

That didn't take long.

Atlantic 10 · #7 11-16-2008, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by marparflyer98

There is no reason this should of been a game tonight. As far as the athletes are concerned the UD Flyers were Men among Boys. Unfortanately b/c of the style of play or lack there of, any team we play this year is going to give us a run for our money...good or bad.

The difference b/tw good and great teams is that you play above your talent level against other great teams and you destroy talent level that shouldn't be on the same court as you. Unfortunately, we won't ever see the difference b/c the offensive set we play never allows our athletes to unleash their abilities.

There is no question we have more athletetic talent on this team like none this town has ever seen before. It is too bad we won't ever see it unleashed properly and on a consistent basis b/c their not allowed to.

one game and we have this, you better look at other college games this weekend and see how close some were,URI takes Duke to the wire

FLYER5 · #8 11-16-2008, 11:26 PM

I'll have to admit I thought we had a lack of consistency maybe due to a lack of continuity on the floor with so frequent substitutions early on. Our players never seemed to warm up. How can a team come out flat when its not seen real competition in months? Our point guard play remains the biggest question mark. Steven Thomas seems tentative and Warren and Lowery both work the ball recklessly up court with little discipline in the use of passing lanes. Charles Little's apartment needs to be checked for radon gas. I've never seen a player regress so abruptly. he'll probably be wheelchair bound in a year. And, Mickey Perry has worn out his "shooter's" welcome already. Can this guy shoot consistently? He has been wide open several times and clanked it, but all I've heard is he's a solid shooter. I don't think so

DC Flyer · #9 11-16-2008, 11:28 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is BG's record against Xavier? Also, how many wins does he have in the NCAA tournament?

Throwing out 99-60 without proper context is misleading to say the least.

Canonball · #10 11-16-2008, 11:32 PM

What's misleading? The man has won 99 out of 160 contests. That's not "bad coaching". I agree beat X and win some tournament games. But come on. Bad???????

Try 4 wins in a season. That's what you call bad. I know, I saw JOB put it into full effect.

Relax on BG he's fine.

cj · #11 11-16-2008, 11:40 PM

... we didn't lose to VMI. Can you imagine the venom being spewed by the nuts at UK.

Yes we should have won by a large margin but we won.

We here at UDPride are used to listening to the rants of all types and we will always get venom spewed unless we blow out each and every team. And new venom spewers come along every season. Your rants, for the most part, will fall on my deaf ears. Let's look for continuous improvement.

singlet_of_truth · #12 11-16-2008, 11:56 PM

Quite franky, I think the jury is still out on BG as a recruiter (and I have always been so so on his coaching and player development). But, maybe it is just that his recruiting is a bit over hyped. Year in and year out we hear all about the great recruits we are pulling. It has yet to translate big on the court.

He has hit pay dirt a couple times - B Rob and CW (and most likely MJ will get there). But there is also a pretty long parade of horribles after that.

But, it is just one game and the season is in diapers. We'll see where it goes. And all those doubters out there thought our non-conference home schedule was non-competitive and a bore....

FLYER5 · #13 11-17-2008, 12:03 AM

I was probably sort of off topic with my first post. I can't believe this is the only new thread since game's end, oh well. Since I'm a newbie i'm reluctant to start a thread, with respect to the natives, lol. But I will say that I've been a Flyer fan for 35 years, unwavering. Brian Gregory as a coach is just fine in my book. I have nothing bad to say about his game management as long as he keeps recruiting like(as) the best coach I've ever seen at Dayton

Flyer_Tom · #14 11-17-2008, 12:14 AM

OK so after 1 game BG sucks as a coach may not even be able to recruit and I am assuming those under this opinion are bailing on the whole season. If that is true PM me and I will buy your season tickets, at a big discount of course. Using this logic Ben Howland at UCLA must suck too...they are a top 5 team with back to back final 4's and they were all out to beat Miami of Ohio at home. Duke, hell they may not win another game. Come on people how many of you bashers were actually at the game. How many just heard the score and said "Oh BG sucks". i was there and no it was not a wonderful performance but they were not outplayed, out hustled or out coached. They had nerves and it showed. They had to miss at least 10 shots from point blank, I know I know thats BG's fault. They make 1/2 of those shots the game is not close. So lets all settle down because I really dont think in March the selection committee will say "gosh we'd let Dayton in but they only beat Wofford buy 3 in November".

Tom R

UDBrian · #15 11-17-2008, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by DC Flyer

Just out of curiosity, what is BG's record against Xavier? Also, how many wins does he have in the NCAA tournament?

Throwing out 99-60 without proper context is misleading to say the least.

BG has the same number of NCAA wins as UD has since Negele left

You could take many games by any coach that UD has had including Blackburn and Donoher and say "They suck".

BG knows that the point position is key but if you are turned down by the best ones what can you do. Staten is a huge recruit, he will help maximize the talent that we have.

Bill McPeek · #16 11-17-2008, 09:44 AM

One game and it has started.

Sea Bass · #17 11-17-2008, 09:55 AM

the ghost of t-man?

Gazoo · #18 11-17-2008, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Sea Bass

the ghost of t-man?

tman would be hinding today because his hero finally got into the starting lineup and accumulated 2 points and 5 rebounds in 26 frickin' minutes. RL had 5 (?) assists and 1 TO along with a steal and despite that PG play we still barely beat a lesser opponent at home.

Sometimes I think this game is more complicated than he made it sound. But let's not spend too much time speaking ill of the dead.

as_4 · #19 11-17-2008, 10:28 AM

Some people just like to stir the pot.

DetroitFlyer · #20 11-17-2008, 10:41 AM

As I was freezing my tush off Saturday at the football game, by the way, where were all of you indoor ball fans, I was surprised to hear some comments concerning BG. Suffice to say they were not flattering.... I found that to be "interesting" coming from some of the most hard core UD fans on the planet, (you had to be to suffer through that weather on Saturday).

I myself am still on the fence relative to BG. Even to me that seems kind of odd being as he has been here a while.... I cannot bring myself to say he is great and I cannot bring myself to say he stinks.

One thing is certain, one game does not a season make.... Who knows, maybe Wofford goes on to win the Southern Conference this year. I doubt it based on their play last night, but you never know after just one game. Even though we did not blow out Wofford, our defense looked VERY good, and our offense looked like it had the potential to be very good. I really got the feeling watching the game, that the more we play together the better the offense will become.

It is way too early to be hammering anyone, especially after a win!

SCFlyer · #21 11-17-2008, 10:41 AM

I think people go off the deep end on BOTH sides of this discussion.

I don't think Gregory is terrible, necessarily, but I definitely have some issues.

First of all, and I'll make this quick because we're in the midst of the season and I don't want to rehash old, tired arguments, but someone said 98-60 in 5 seasons as an argument as to how good of a coach he is. That works out to a little under 20-12 each season. Obviously I don't think that is terrible, but it's not exactly that great either. I would say it's fine. But I don't know how exceedingly pleased I am with Gregory's first 5 years. He's certainly got to show me something soon more than a 20-12 season, first or second round loss in the A10 and the NIT.

But, whatever, leaving that aside. Watching the game last night, I have one MAJOR issue with BG. WAAAAYYYYY to much substituting going on. It may not be noticeable because if you look at a boxscore, all the starters got starters minutes, but I'm tired of him subbing so quickly. I turned to my brother last night, and said, "Does Gregory know that there isn't a rule that you must sub a player EVERY dead ball?" In the first half, we played 12 players. TWELVE! That is unreal. And not only did we play a ton of players, we played them all in such short spurts. Why not keep your starters in for more than 120 seconds to start the game? In the second half, 58 seconds in, we already subbed out our point guard and a wing player. Were they tired already? Did something happen so horribly wrong in those first 58 seconds that we thought we needed to switch it up?

Look, I understand there are a lot of things going on during the game that I may not catch. And I understand that BG is just trying to find the right fit. But I'm seriously going to lose my brain if he keeps subbing players in and out at such a high frequency.

It did settle down a bit in the second half, especially toward the end - you know, when we kept our good players in for an extended period of time, they seemed to outscore the other team. Funny how that works.

UDFLYERS2K · #22 11-17-2008, 11:02 AM

I don't agree with every decision that BG makes as a coach (his substitution patterns have been an issue for a long time). However, if you are going to blame him for 10 missed layups and poor rebounding then you should also give him credit for CW and MJ's dunks and RL clutch freethrows. It wasn't pretty but I will take the win!

Sea Bass · #23 11-17-2008, 11:11 AM

There are always strange results early in the year.

Looked to me that Wofford spent and awful lot of time preparing that sloughing half court defense ... I can't imagine it is one they will get to use a lot as the season goes on.

Flyers have a lot of new players and the transition will take some time. The Flyers really need the freshman to step up because they have skills.

I was encouraged by the defense and ball pressure(which is what I have been waiting 5 years to see). Flyers forced a bunch of turnovers and Wofford did not get a single good look in the last four minutes(until the layup with 1 second) while the defense created some points for the Flyers.

I think we will continue to see lots of subs until BG figures out who can be counted on for what.

Canonball · #24 11-17-2008, 11:17 AM

Exactly we left at least 20 points on the court on missed layups alone. Not BG's fault if the guys are not converting on those kinds of shots.

I am sorry to all the detractors .... but the bench mark of success in sports is winning. If you win 20 games a year and lose only 12 on average. That's pretty good. Does it keep BG's job in tact? Probably not much longer because he hasn't beaten the key foe .... and has only been to the dance once (and not with his guys). The NIT performance last year showed me quite a bit. With everybody healthy that was an NCAA caliber squad. BG's best team that he has personally put together. Unfortunately for our program it's going to come in cycles (2-3 years). We're not Duke who gets the pic of the litter top to bottom and never skips a beat. We have to build and it takes time. Guess what ... this is one of those years and it's going to be a slow growing process.

BlueMiniS · #25 11-17-2008, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by SCFlyer

But, whatever, leaving that aside. Watching the game last night, I have one MAJOR issue with BG. WAAAAYYYYY to much substituting going on. It may not be noticeable because if you look at a boxscore, all the starters got starters minutes, but I'm tired of him subbing so quickly. I turned to my brother last night, and said, "Does Gregory know that there isn't a rule that you must sub a player EVERY dead ball?" In the first half, we played 12 players. TWELVE! That is unreal. And not only did we play a ton of players, we played them all in such short spurts. Why not keep your starters in for more than 120 seconds to start the game? In the second half, 58 seconds in, we already subbed out our point guard and a wing player. Were they tired already? Did something happen so horribly wrong in those first 58 seconds that we thought we needed to switch it up?

Look, I understand there are a lot of things going on during the game that I may not catch. And I understand that BG is just trying to find the right fit. But I'm seriously going to lose my brain if he keeps subbing players in and out at such a high frequency.

If you pay close attention, you will be able to track substitution patterns quite easily. First off, a very bad turnover will get you taken out. We saw this with London a few times. That being said, the purpose is to let BG coach him on the bench, then get him back in the game. In this scenario, a casual fan will see two quick subs and get frustrated. Watch the big picture, not just what is going on on the floor.

Second, you will get taken out for a second quick foul, or a really dumb foul. Some of this is sideline coaching, some is to protect the player from fouling out. This happens on all teams, all times of the game.

Third, BG will sub in match ups. When Wofford's big guy went out, KH got a breather. This sub is an easy one to spot because they are paired with one on the other side of the floor.

I don't always agree with players flying in and out of the game, but watch what goes on both on and off the court with the players talking to coaches, being pointed out things on the floor, and reserve judgement until you see something that really makes no sense. I haven't seen a whole lot of subbing that can't be explained by the game situation.

UDF4N4LIF3 · #26 11-17-2008, 11:24 AM

LOL, wow one game, it's just ONE game. Do you think later in the year that URI would even come close to Duke? NO. Do you think that UMKC should have gave Kansas a game, no but it's early in the year and that's where most of the upsets happen.

Bill McPeek · #27 11-17-2008, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by BlueMiniS

If you pay close attention, you will be able to track substitution patterns quite easily. First off, a very bad turnover will get you taken out. We saw this with London a few times. That being said, the purpose is to let BG coach him on the bench, then get him back in the game. In this scenario, a casual fan will see two quick subs and get frustrated. Watch the big picture, not just what is going on on the floor.

Second, you will get taken out for a second quick foul, or a really dumb foul. Some of this is sideline coaching, some is to protect the player from fouling out. This happens on all teams, all times of the game.

Third, BG will sub in match ups. When Wofford's big guy went out, KH got a breather. This sub is an easy one to spot because they are paired with one on the other side of the floor.

I don't always agree with players flying in and out of the game, but watch what goes on both on and off the court with the players talking to coaches, being pointed out things on the floor, and reserve judgement until you see something that really makes no sense. I haven't seen a whole lot of subbing that can't be explained by the game situation.

Well said with some very good, valid points.

steve · #28 11-17-2008, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by BlueMiniS

If you pay close attention, you will be able to track substitution patterns quite easily. First off, a very bad turnover will get you taken out. We saw this with London a few times. That being said, the purpose is to let BG coach him on the bench, then get him back in the game. In this scenario, a casual fan will see two quick subs and get frustrated. Watch the big picture, not just what is going on on the floor.

Second, you will get taken out for a second quick foul, or a really dumb foul. Some of this is sideline coaching, some is to protect the player from fouling out. This happens on all teams, all times of the game.

Third, BG will sub in match ups. When Wofford's big guy went out, KH got a breather. This sub is an easy one to spot because they are paired with one on the other side of the floor.

I don't always agree with players flying in and out of the game, but watch what goes on both on and off the court with the players talking to coaches, being pointed out things on the floor, and reserve judgement until you see something that really makes no sense. I haven't seen a whole lot of subbing that can't be explained by the game situation.

Exactly.The only real issue I have with substitution is with Perry.Sometimes good shooters need to get in a rhythm and guys like Perry need to be out on the floor in more extended minutes.Problem is the guy was a D liability and have not seen alot of improvement in the 2 Ex games.
So,there you have a trade off,but with the lack of quality shooters in the program the past few years I would allow MP to find his stroke.I was not at the game last night so maybe he did allow MP some leash.

bobber · #29 11-17-2008, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by BlueMiniS

If you pay close attention, you will be able to track substitution patterns quite easily. First off, a very bad turnover will get you taken out. We saw this with London a few times. That being said, the purpose is to let BG coach him on the bench, then get him back in the game. In this scenario, a casual fan will see two quick subs and get frustrated. Watch the big picture, not just what is going on on the floor.

Second, you will get taken out for a second quick foul, or a really dumb foul. Some of this is sideline coaching, some is to protect the player from fouling out. This happens on all teams, all times of the game.

Third, BG will sub in match ups. When Wofford's big guy went out, KH got a breather. This sub is an easy one to spot because they are paired with one on the other side of the floor.

I don't always agree with players flying in and out of the game, but watch what goes on both on and off the court with the players talking to coaches, being pointed out things on the floor, and reserve judgement until you see something that really makes no sense. I haven't seen a whole lot of subbing that can't be explained by the game situation.

Please explain the one where, if you score two quick buckets, you get set down. I never understood that one.

rollo · #30 11-17-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by bobber

Please explain the one where, if you score two quick buckets, you get set down. I never understood that one.

Obama says it's not fair. Need to share the offense. A third quick basket results in a scoring tax of 50% and, thus, only one point.

Xenia UDFan · #31 11-17-2008, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by marparflyer98

There is no reason this should of been a game tonight. As far as the athletes are concerned the UD Flyers were Men among Boys. Unfortanately b/c of the style of play or lack there of, any team we play this year is going to give us a run for our money...good or bad.

The difference b/tw good and great teams is that you play above your talent level against other great teams and you destroy talent level that shouldn't be on the same court as you. Unfortunately, we won't ever see the difference b/c the offensive set we play never allows our athletes to unleash their abilities.

There is no question we have more athletetic talent on this team like none this town has ever seen before. It is too bad we won't ever see it unleashed properly and on a consistent basis b/c their not allowed to.

Funny how these cats never seem to post anything when we beat a Pitt or a Louisville, but struggle a bit and they come out of the woodwork.

NorthwestFlyer · #32 11-17-2008, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by marparflyer98

There is no reason this should of been a game tonight. As far as the athletes are concerned the UD Flyers were Men among Boys. Unfortanately b/c of the style of play or lack there of, any team we play this year is going to give us a run for our money...good or bad.

The difference b/tw good and great teams is that you play above your talent level against other great teams and you destroy talent level that shouldn't be on the same court as you. Unfortunately, we won't ever see the difference b/c the offensive set we play never allows our athletes to unleash their abilities.

There is no question we have more athletetic talent on this team like none this town has ever seen before. It is too bad we won't ever see it unleashed properly and on a consistent basis b/c their not allowed to.

What a ridiculous thread to start. We win our opener. Our Freshman get to see some playing time and learn a few things. We know we have two unstoppable players. We played good defense and we have a laundry list of adjustments to make and I don't think looking for a new coach is one of them. As of now, we are still on track to make the adjustments we need to make and play in the dance. Apparently one more thing we know is that someone is going to jump down BG's throat for getting us a win.

Dare I say it, the other thing we know is that marparflyer98 is a troll? It only took you two posts buddy. I'm glad to see that this thread hasn't gained any momentum and turned into a nay sayer landslide.

lilrudy4787 · #33 11-17-2008, 12:16 PM

I do agree with the thread, but it is a little early to start it. There is always an element of rust that hits the floor, from a player standpoint AND a coaching standpoint. I complain about BG as much as anyone. he subs WAAAY too much which leave our team with no flow. but anyway...

The big litmus test will be our first away game. Lets see how he does then, and THEN we can talk

masonflyer · #34 11-17-2008, 12:32 PM

[QUOTE First off, a very bad turnover will get you taken out.
[/QUOTE]

I totally disagree with that philosophy. When I coach my youth teams I make it a point to let them know that they won't get pulled for making a mistake. I see other youth and high school coaches do it and I just shake my head. It makes the players timid and afraid to be agressive and make a play. (Disclaimer - my last statement doesn't apply to LW - it's OK to pull him).

You also need to leave a player in long enough to get into the flow of the game. If you aren't going to leave them in for at least a few minutes why put them in? This doesn't include special situations like foul trouble or end of game, etc.

priceg75 · #35 11-17-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

Obama says it's not fair. Need to share the offense. A third quick basket results in a scoring tax of 50% and, thus, only one point.

The election's over. You can stop now.

masonflyer · #36 11-17-2008, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by priceg75

The election's over. You can stop now.

Come on, that was a good one by Rollo. This just in from the cover of People Magazine. Obama: "I'm a pretty cool father". So am I, I'm running in 2012.

singlet_of_truth · #37 11-17-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by NorthwestFlyer

What a ridiculous thread to start. We win our opener. Our Freshman get to see some playing time and learn a few things. We know we have two unstoppable players. We played good defense and we have a laundry list of adjustments to make and I don't think looking for a new coach is one of them. As of now, we are still on track to make the adjustments we need to make and play in the dance. Apparently one more thing we know is that someone is going to jump down BG's throat for getting us a win.

Dare I say it, the other thing we know is that marparflyer98 is a troll? It only took you two posts buddy. I'm glad to see that this thread hasn't gained any momentum and turned into a nay sayer landslide.

I'm not sure how this thread (or the idea underlying the thread) is any better or worse or anything but the flip side compared with those fans claiming superb outside shooting, upcoming dominance, etc etc (or the second coming of Dirk) based on our exhibition games.

This is the first real indication we have of this team. Yes, it is early (really early). But early observations are not irrelevant and are all we have at this point.

Why can't fans express disappointment in what they see and what many feel is a continued pattern (lack of outside shooting, perceived lack of progression of certain players, continuous subbing and playing down to the competition, etc)?

Sea Bass · #38 11-17-2008, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

Why can't fans express disappointment in what they see and what many feel is a continued pattern (lack of outside shooting, perceived lack of progression of certain players, continuous subbing and playing down to the competition, etc)?

I think the problem is that there are people who only seem to show up post when things are NOT going well. People are always sensitive to posts by perceived trolls.

Gilchrist's Autograph 2 · #39 11-17-2008, 01:32 PM

Come on guys - early indications?!

After 6 years it is pretty clear that for a program like Dayton Basketball, BG has done a pretty good job of recruiting - at least improved over the previous two regimes and consistently among the best in the A-10.

It's also pretty obvoius that the main weakness of BG is putting together a strong offensive game plan and adjusting offensively during games.

We debate it every year, but can't we just admit these as truths and move on?

BlueMiniS · #40 11-17-2008, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by masonflyer

I totally disagree with that philosophy. When I coach my youth teams I make it a point to let them know that they won't get pulled for making a mistake. I see other youth and high school coaches do it and I just shake my head. It makes the players timid and afraid to be agressive and make a play. (Disclaimer - my last statement doesn't apply to LW - it's OK to pull him).

You also need to leave a player in long enough to get into the flow of the game. If you aren't going to leave them in for at least a few minutes why put them in? This doesn't include special situations like foul trouble or end of game, etc.

One of the big discussion points here is who should be playing PG. If they truely are earning minutes, or fighting for court time, doesn't it make sense to have a short lease? This isn't a youth leage, this is DI College Basketball. The players need to be responsible for their play on the court, and their time should be tied to performance.

On the flip side, if a player is pulled to be talked to for a play or two, someone has to go in, even if it's for 30 seconds of game time, that's what happens when you must have 5 on the court.

NorthwestFlyer · #41 11-17-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

I'm not sure how this thread (or the idea underlying the thread) is any better or worse or anything but the flip side compared with those fans claiming superb outside shooting, upcoming dominance, etc etc (or the second coming of Dirk) based on our exhibition games.

This is the first real indication we have of this team. Yes, it is early (really early). But early observations are not irrelevant and are all we have at this point.

Why can't fans express disappointment in what they see and what many feel is a continued pattern (lack of outside shooting, perceived lack of progression of certain players, continuous subbing and playing down to the competition, etc)?

Actually most of the other threads discuss the players and corrections that can and should be made. Not a whole lot of optimism and Kool-Aid in the post game thoughts. This one has the typical BG doesn't coach, doesn't recruit whine to it.

To expect Dayton to come out on fire and Wofford to be a push over is the problem. Wofford was well coached and prepared. We were full of jitters as you might honestly expect from a team with 4 new players that lost three starters last year.

Give it some time and give the BG sucks crap a rest. We heard the same crap last year before we beat Louisville and Pitt and managed to find our way into the rankings.

If we had lost last night, then so be it, but we won - so simmer down.

masonflyer · #42 11-17-2008, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by BlueMiniS

One of the big discussion points here is who should be playing PG. If they truely are earning minutes, or fighting for court time, doesn't it make sense to have a short lease? This isn't a youth leage, this is DI College Basketball. The players need to be responsible for their play on the court, and their time should be tied to performance.

On the flip side, if a player is pulled to be talked to for a play or two, someone has to go in, even if it's for 30 seconds of game time, that's what happens when you must have 5 on the court.

Notice I said my philosophy doesn't apply to London. But in general, in what other sport do you get pulled for a mistake. I can't think of one unless you are Steve Spurrier's quarterback. And since it is D1 basketball do they need to be pulled to be told they made a bad pass or dribbled the ball off their foot? They don't even do it in the NBA.

FlyerYouBetcha · #43 11-17-2008, 02:07 PM

If we beat them 110-40, we're 1-0 for the year.

If we beat them 52-49, apparently we're 0-1.

allflyernamesaregone · #44 11-17-2008, 02:12 PM

To add a glass of optimism, **** that was some pretty good defense last night. Tons of clean blocks out of the half court set and on transition that we recovered and were not just sent into the 8th row. Those blocks look good, but if the opposing team scores on the resulting inbounds play they don't mean much. We were bigger than Wofford and they seemingly tried to run every chance they could, but we got back well. Two of the offensive scape goats, Charles and London, did especially well I feel, as well as Chris Wright.

BlueMiniS · #45 11-17-2008, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by masonflyer

Notice I said my philosophy doesn't apply to London. But in general, in what other sport do you get pulled for a mistake. I can't think of one unless you are Steve Spurrier's quarterback. And since it is D1 basketball do they need to be pulled to be told they made a bad pass or dribbled the ball off their foot? They don't even do it in the NBA.

Football. Now that teams have 2 back offenses a fumble will get you sat down. Just ask Chris Perry.

We have a 2 (or 3) PG team. A TO will get you sat down.

The Price is Wright · #46 11-17-2008, 02:18 PM

First off, I think it was an absolutely terrible performance on opening night. In all the years I've watched us at UD arena, this performance was near the top of the all-time worst list. Do we practice offense? The experimental lineups almost cost us the game. We almost lost to Wofford because of the mass substitutions. Brian Gregory has a serious habit of overcoaching and overthinking everything. This is basketball, put your best players out there and let them play. It's that simple.

I think BlueMini said something about how BG took Huelsman out because their big guy came out. Wouldn't that be the time to leave him in? You know so he could dominate the low block and score some baskets. Why are we adjusting our lineup to fit Woffords? Let Wofford worry about matching up with us. We have to dictate the pace and style of games.

I know it's only one game but it appears that Overcoach Gregory is up to his same old tricks. It's disturbing to see us struggling to beat Wofford in the first game. Mercer will destroy us if we repeat last night's performance.

It's tough to sit there and watch a guy make baffling lineup decisions that hold this team back. Not a fan of Gregory.

masonflyer · #47 11-17-2008, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by BlueMiniS

Football. Now that teams have 2 back offenses a fumble will get you sat down. Just ask Chris Perry.

We have a 2 (or 3) PG team. A TO will get you sat down.

Then I guess London should never play. Of course Marvin should have been fired 2 years ago, so take that with a grain of salt.

as_4 · #48 11-17-2008, 02:25 PM

You'd think we lost...

LebronJames · #49 11-17-2008, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by The Price is Wright

Brian Gregory has a serious habit of overcoaching and overthinking everything. This is basketball, put your best players out there and let them play. It's that simple.

It's tough to sit there and watch a guy make baffling lineup decisions that hold this team back. Not a fan of Gregory.

Last year, you were the same poster criticizing BG for not giving the best players enough minutes, i.e. Brian Roberts and Chris Wright.

The first game, the starters played 70% of the minutes and the top seven minute getters received 88% of the playing time. To me, this appears like he put in the best players and let them play.

But, I guess people will always find something to criticize, even if it completely contradicts things they have said in the past.

The Price is Wright · #50 11-17-2008, 03:02 PM

There was a new lineup at every stop in the action. That's my problem. I want the best players to play for long periods of time, together. Like the starting lineup maybe getting more than 2 minutes to play together so they can get in a rhythm.

Come up with a percentage on this one pal. How long was the starting five together on the court? 5 minutes total. Something like that. Get out your stat book and calculator and come up with that one.

I still stand by my opinion last year that I think the best and most skilled players should play pretty much the entire game. That's what good teams do. With a bunch timeouts per half, nobody should be tired.

SJD41 · #51 11-17-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bill McPeek

One game and it has started.

Its not just one game. Last season we had to watch in my opinion one of the greatest flyers of all time play his senior season with no support. Such a special player and even if CW stayed healthy all year there wouldn't of been enough help for BROB. Its bad enough that he was the only reason we won games at all two years ago but to watch a senior try and do it alone, just sucked.

shocka43 · #52 11-17-2008, 03:42 PM

To make all sides happy, we all need to look at BG from both sides of the fence. First off, I am critical of him, for good cause in certain areas, but I am fair. There are good arguments on both sides, with that said....

No, BG should not be fired as some feel/think/ramble each year. I don't like his philosophy, but it doesn't make him a poor coach that needs let go. However, record comparisons are like comparing apples and oranges. Would you rather have a 25-10 in the ACC or A-10? Would you rather have a 25-10 against great competition or so-so competition? He has had X amount of appearances since the days of Negele. Who cares, do we strive to be satisfied with comparisons to the past glory days, or do we want to be better than that? Quit settling for mediocre results year after year. Is a field of 64 appearance fine, or do you want more? We want more, can he do it? We'll see and how long do you wait?

Hell of a defensive effort last night. Chalk that one up to BG and coaching. You have never heard the bench that vocal with 10 left on the shot clock. That comes from understanding the importance of D, and how it relates to game control.

Horrible rebounding effort. Out rebounded by 10 by a inferior physical team. To the poster that said they didn't get outplayed, out coached, and out hustled. You are wrong in this category. If the players aren't noticing that long shots result in long boards....They need to be told. If you don't body up when you let them shoot from 20 feet all game you will get killed on the boards. Long shots = long rebounds. You miss a box out, you get pulled. CL wasn't pulled after missing two box outs in the first 4 minutes of the game. (Not to mention a TO and a blown layup). You don't get beat by a smaller team on the boards unless you are getting out hustled. Period.

Substitutions....There are times where tactical subbing is good. Like giving a breather to your best 5 available going into the under 8 TV TO. But to tell me that KH can only go three minutes into the game before he needs a break....Come on now. Shooters can't get in a groove 120 seconds into a game with one shot and few touches. Previous poster stated it was funny when the top 5 were in the last 7 that we outscored and outplayed the opponent. Coincidence....Nope. It is easy for him to do line changes for 33 minutes of the game and then try to coach your best 5 for the last 7. Name one other team that we see that has this philosophy, and doesn't play catch up with 7-10 to go.

Recruiter and PR guy. Great in both aspects. He is the type of guy you want to represent your program and draw local talent. But sooner or later you have to make the decision if being an above average mid major is your thing with a good face to the program, or something else. I am not calling for anyones job, but it is time to put up or make some decisions. Excuses aren't going to cut it....again....

You can go on and on comparing good and bad. To see a guy make a mistake and have it corrected in a few games time is attributed to coaching. Consistent errors don't have anything to do with players, because all 12 can't stink in one area....No offensive movement...coaching. Wofford almost drilled us with your most basic motion offense last night. We played great D, and they still hung in there playing a highly effective and very basic O.

It is definitely early and all of us are excited about this season. But be honest about the program. We see the "Uh oh, that didn't take long" posts. Well....If it wasn't the same **** again, we wouldn't see this thread.

longtimefan · #53 11-17-2008, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by SJD41

Such a special player and even if CW stayed healthy all year there wouldn't of been enough help for BROB.

That is just an ignorant statement. It is amazing how people forget we were 14-1 and ranked 14th in the country.

vvflyer40 · #54 11-17-2008, 04:32 PM

I was not impressed by the Flyers performance last night, and I doubt that even those of you who are saying "a win is a win" were impressed. However, you are correct in that we won that game and that it's over. However, that Wofford team was not the same one that beat Purdue last year. Their 2 best players graduated, and they were playing 2 freshmen at PG. What has to change is that BG cannot keep playing this many guys. It absolutely will not work. It needs to be cut down to 9, maybe 8 guys. CW and MJ should rarely leave the floor, they are clearly our 2 best players. Also, KH needs to play as many minutes as he effectively can, because he does all the little things we need and I think can develop into a low post force. All in all, this game isn't that big of a deal right now. However, if the performance is repeated against Delaware St. and Bethune-Cookman, then there is definitely a problem.

FLYER5 · #55 11-18-2008, 11:08 PM

We got thoroughly outrebounded by a smaller team in our own place. We did force 20 somethin' turnovers but scored just 52 points. The justification for criticism is pretty evident. We're not talking X, or RI for that matter. It was Wofford and it was almost a loss, plain and simple. Don't take it to heart when someone critiques something thats as apparent as the nose on your face. The person gave his opinion, but I haven't seen any confession or evidence of trolling. I'm going to give them some slack. We fielded a much more talented team than theirs, thanks to BG. We didn't play well enough to win against tough competitition but we beat Wofford. Its early and this team needs reps to gel. But I (and probably the author of this thread) hope that playing down to the competition (don't look now) does not become a trait of this very young and impressionable team.