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View Poll Results: The Golden Billiken Award goes to...
Smith 14 pts 8 rbs 5 assists but 5 TOs 21 21.21%
Holmes 11 pts 4 rbs 5 blocks 36 36.36%
Elvis 14 pts 2 rbs 2 assists 0 TOs 38 38.38%
Mustafa 9 pts 2 rbs 2 2.02%
Camara 5 pts 9 rbs 0 0%
The Reffing Crew who officiated like they were in a recliner! 2 2.02%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:04 PM
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Golden Travis Ford hates UD Arena award

First half it was all Elvis...2nd half it was all Holmes and Smith. Whose the Golden-est of them all...VOTE!
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:09 PM
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Holmes' energy carries this team. The 5 blocks were huge.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:21 PM
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Impressed with Elvis offensively obviously but more impressed what he did defensively on Jimmerson in the first half. He didn’t get the minutes in the second half with our big lineup making a difference but you also saw what happened when he wasn’t guarding 24. Good team win
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Old 01-11-2022, 10:25 PM
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Smith, Elvis, Holmes all good picks. But DaRon wins out for almost singlehandedly disrupting their offensive execution. He was the Great Wall inside. And Camara was no slouch in there, either. DaRon is a franchise player.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:37 PM
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If you count every time the TV announcers said blocked shot by Holmes he had to have had 15 plus blocks. 5 blocks officially is still a good day at the office, plus all the altered shots.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:42 PM
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Holmes just changes the game. He gets my vote again. Even with the turnovers, Mali is a close 2nd. Camara is on the distant horizon. I will give him my vote when he plays consecutive games without jacking a 3. The dude cannot shoot.
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Old 01-11-2022, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
If you count every time the TV announcers said blocked shot by Holmes he had to have had 15 plus blocks. 5 blocks officially is still a good day at the office, plus all the altered shots.
Agreed that it felt like a lot more than five.
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Old 01-11-2022, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Smith, Elvis, Holmes all good picks. But DaRon wins out for almost singlehandedly disrupting their offensive execution. He was the Great Wall inside. And Camara was no slouch in there, either. DaRon is a franchise player.
Had to go with Holmes because it seemed like he had 15 blocks instead of 5. And he prevented attempts as well. He has team changing defensive abilities as a rim protector. It's going to be a great ride with him in the middle.

He and Smith are blue chip freshmen.

Look at the difference between the first few games and where we are now as a team. It comes with experience. I honestly could not tell you what our strengths were after the first few games. Now, we know who we are. We are starting to get the roles. We know who the shooters are. Mali knows what kind of driving layup is going to fly in division 1 and what is going to get rejected. He knows he can force the action on offense. A mid-range game is starting to show up with Kobe Elvis. Mali and Holmes have something going on the pick and roll now. Our full court pressure is getting refined. Rapid improvement across the board.

I think we have enough stability where we are going to be really good at home from this point forward, but taking it on the road is the next step, and that is what really makes you a top team. I'm not sure how long it will be before we have some swagger on the road. I'm guessing it will take us until very late in the year, if it happens.

Oh, and our team defense and rebounding were terrific tonight.

Last edited by Fudd; 01-12-2022 at 08:13 AM..
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2022, 10:45 PM
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DaRon must have altered 10 shots. Every time their guards entered the paint they were looking over their shoulder.
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Old 01-11-2022, 11:04 PM
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Elvis really got them going in the first half. The Flyers were flat until he heated up.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2022, 11:09 PM
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A lot of good choices tonight…but I went with The King (Elvis). During the 1st Half surge that put us on top to stay, he was The Man. Played within himself; composed. Again, plenty of good choices, but the kid done good tonight. Nice game, Kobe!
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2022, 11:10 PM
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I voted for Holmes. He had a steady game and really made the Billikins think twice when driving to the basket!
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Old 01-11-2022, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
Camara is on the distant horizon. I will give him my vote when he plays consecutive games without jacking a 3. The dude cannot shoot.
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Camara attempted a three twice tonight. The first one was absolutely a set play designed for him to have an open shot. Second one the same argument can be made, but not as strongly.
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Old 01-11-2022, 11:42 PM
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Deuce. Without him we’d have lost by 20. His defense was tremendous. 5 blocks and many more shots altered. We completely neutralized .st. Louis inside.
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Old 01-11-2022, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Camara attempted a three twice tonight. The first one was absolutely a set play designed for him to have an open shot. Second one the same argument can be made, but not as strongly.
And I think one of them may have hit the rim!
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Old 01-12-2022, 12:16 AM
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Team Defense Should Be a Choice

This was one of the best defensive efforts in UD Flyer history. SLU came to Dayton averaging
81 points a game and the Flyers held them to 63 points...18 below their average! Duece Holmes did his best impression of Bill Russell and protected the rim ALL NIGHT LONG!
That was a far more important factor in the win than anything any Flyer did on offense.
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Old 01-12-2022, 12:58 AM
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I've been watching Flyer hoops since 1962 and NO Flyer team has ever played defense FROM START TO FINISH as this team does. PERIOD

CAG has done the toughest thing in coaching hoops, getting players to play tough defense. This reassures me that as this group moves forward CAG WILL get them to play more consistently on the offense end.

The future is bright!!
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Old 01-12-2022, 01:00 AM
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Smith

Malachi, handled the pressure and ran the offense all game and made the StL PG foul out
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2022, 01:11 AM
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Great defensive effort. But an even better coaching performance. Grant had Ford's playbook. In my opinion the best effort on D since Belmont in terms of taking away a team's offensive strengths and forcing them into situations they were less dangerous at. In Belmonts case it was defending the 3 and back door picks. Tonight, it was screens and ball movement. The Bills struggled to do both.

Don't get too comfortable however.
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Old 01-12-2022, 06:53 AM
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Oh, and at least the "oldest daredevil acrobat" is going to die doing what he loves...........

Last edited by Fudd; 01-12-2022 at 08:02 AM..
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Old 01-12-2022, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Oh, and at least the "oldest daredevil acrobat" is going to die doing what he loves...........
The entire crowd had their eyes covered while he stacked/climbed those chairs...until they didn't. Top 5 halftime performance IMO.
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Old 01-12-2022, 03:17 PM
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Two best plays from last night were Amzil picking the pocket of the dozing StL player near midcourt. The often criticized Amzil for slow foot speed and athleticism demonstrated if you keep your head in the game, that is most important. The other was when Elvis dribble drove to the baseline, faked his guy, and did like a reverse 360, and made a sweet jump shot. That was a true Donald Smith move.
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Old 01-12-2022, 06:06 PM
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The SLU player was dozing because Travis Ford tried to call a TO and coaches can’t do that, a player has to…and none of his guys did. It was a heads-up play by Mus and a great dunk by Deuce.
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Old 01-12-2022, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
The SLU player was dozing because Travis Ford tried to call a TO and coaches can’t do that, a player has to…and none of his guys did. It was a heads-up play by Mus and a great dunk by Deuce.
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Since when can coaches not call timeouts? I thought NCAA changed that rule years ago to allow coaches to call timeouts.
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Since when can coaches not call timeouts? I thought NCAA changed that rule years ago to allow coaches to call timeouts.
Coaches cannot call timeouts in a live ball situation, I believe.

If I'm wrong I'm sure 1-2 Priders will correct me.
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:46 PM
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I believe coaches can call timeouts in the last 2 minutes of the game
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:34 PM
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It's Holmes II vs Elvis...and down the stretch they come...
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It's Holmes II vs Elvis...and down the stretch they come...
Don't count out Mustapha. He's a big time closer. umm, or Finnisher if you will.
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2022, 10:42 PM
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I voted for Elvis because he really got things rolling for us early. Having said that, I absolutely love Holmes. I believe he had 0 points and 1 rebound at half, but he still found a way to make an impact in the half with his defense. Also, while most of the guys work on their off-the-bounce dunking skills during warm-ups, DaRon works on his mid-range jumper. I pray that we get 4 years of DaRon and Malachi.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sticks 'n Stearns View Post
I voted for Elvis because he really got things rolling for us early. Having said that, I absolutely love Holmes. I believe he had 0 points and 1 rebound at half, but he still found a way to make an impact in the half with his defense. Also, while most of the guys work on their off-the-bounce dunking skills during warm-ups, DaRon works on his mid-range jumper. I pray that we get 4 years of DaRon and Malachi.
Kind of strange now, but do we really root for 4 years out of him or 2-3 years with him becoming another lottery pick for us?
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:52 AM
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I went to UD Arena to watch the game live, but recorded it on my DVD. I had the opportunity to watch the broadcast last night.

I thought that the announcers were good and they really were very complimentary of the program and the Arena atmosphere. Wally Szczerbiak was very complimentary of the Flyers on the halftime analysis show. All of them were impressed with the Holmes-Smith combo. We got some great national PR from that game.

It reminded me of just a taste of what the Obi PR was like for the program. Of course, Obi was doing something spectacular every week, and it began to snowball. Now, everyone associates that season with UD basketball. The fact that it was cut off by Covid with us going in as a 1 seed creates a mystique of mystery about just how good we may have been.

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Old 01-13-2022, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sticks 'n Stearns View Post
I voted for Elvis because he really got things rolling for us early. Having said that, I absolutely love Holmes. I believe he had 0 points and 1 rebound at half, but he still found a way to make an impact in the half with his defense. Also, while most of the guys work on their off-the-bounce dunking skills during warm-ups, DaRon works on his mid-range jumper. I pray that we get 4 years of DaRon and Malachi.
Give me 2-3 out of Holmes which would mean he'd be going to the league. Imagine Holmes developing a jump hook with his length, at least until he can get stronger.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:40 AM
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Unless you are well over 7 foot and bulky, you must have an outside shot in the NBA. Holmes has to show us that before he is going anywhere.
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Old 01-13-2022, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Unless you are well over 7 foot and bulky, you must have an outside shot in the NBA. Holmes has to show us that before he is going anywhere.

Rudy Gobert says hi. Second leading shot blocker in the NBA, he's 7'1" and 258. He hasn't missed a 3 all year. Because he hasn't taken one. But at a BMI of 25 he's not what I would call "bulky".



Holmes isn't as bulky, and he's also still a baby.
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Old 01-13-2022, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Give me 2-3 out of Holmes which would mean he'd be going to the league. Imagine Holmes developing a jump hook with his length, at least until he can get stronger.
Don’t you think this is fantasy? Like London Warren development of an outside shot, Chris Wright or Pollard getting a reliable jumper. Seems players mostly improve what they have rather than gain a whole new skill at a high level.
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Don’t you think this is fantasy? Like London Warren development of an outside shot, Chris Wright or Pollard getting a reliable jumper. Seems players mostly improve what they have rather than gain a whole new skill at a high level.
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No I don't. College players improve all the time. They aren't frozen by who they are at 17-18 years old.I believe it's alot easier to develop a 6-8 ft. jump hook (not hook shot) for a really athletic BIG than developing a perimeter shot/jump shot especially if you've never had one even in HS. Not saying Holmes doesn't have one but we really don't see it now other than a couple times as he's a very unselfish player.

Either way it's going to take hundreds of shots in the off season to perfect his game, become the player he wants to be and develop any type of consistent shot that becomes his go to.I believe he has that kind of a work ethic. Holmes is going to have to develop some kind of a shot if he plans on being drafted as a 1st rounder as he'll play as a 3, maybe a 4 depending how he matures physically.

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Old 01-13-2022, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I thought that the announcers were good and they really were very complimentary of the program and the Arena atmosphere. Wally Szczerbiak was very complimentary of the Flyers on the halftime analysis show. All of them were impressed with the Holmes-Smith combo. We got some great national PR from that game.
Wally World should like us. He went for 41 against us in 1997 in Miami's 2OT win.
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Old 01-13-2022, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Don’t you think this is fantasy? Like London Warren development of an outside shot, Chris Wright or Pollard getting a reliable jumper. Seems players mostly improve what they have rather than gain a whole new skill at a high level.
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If Holmes shot the ball like Kendall Pollard, then yes, that's a stretch. But Holmes has excellent form.



He's just got enough sense to know there's a better shot for the team.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Rudy Gobert says hi. Second leading shot blocker in the NBA, he's 7'1" and 258. He hasn't missed a 3 all year. Because he hasn't taken one. But at a BMI of 25 he's not what I would call "bulky".



Holmes isn't as bulky, and he's also still a baby.
So he has Holmes by 3” and 38 lbs, huge difference.
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I went to UD Arena to watch the game live, but recorded it on my DVD. I had the opportunity to watch the broadcast last night.

I thought that the announcers were good and they really were very complimentary of the program and the Arena atmosphere. Wally Szczerbiak was very complimentary of the Flyers on the halftime analysis show. All of them were impressed with the Holmes-Smith combo. We got some great national PR from that game.

It reminded me of just a taste of what the Obi PR was like for the program. Of course, Obi was doing something spectacular every week, and it began to snowball. Now, everyone associates that season with UD basketball. The fact that it was cut off by Covid with us going in as a 1 seed creates a mystique of mystery about just how good we may have been.
Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Wally World should like us. He went for 41 against us in 1997 in Miami's 2OT win.
I think he said that we were playing like we were "legit" at halftime of the Saint Louis game. And I was there for the Wallyworld game at the Arena. He was quite the shooter.
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:41 AM
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Rudy Gobert has extremely long arms. His wingspan is 7'9".
Kevin Durant has wingspan of 7'5"
Giannis wingspan is 7'3"

I wonder how long Deuce is?
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:14 PM
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Gobert, Giannis and Durant aren't part of the team...be careful!

Out of fear that an uber-sensitive, sac-less and anonymous moderator might move this Golden Poll to the Off-Topic Gibberish thread, I feel the need to get back on topic by updating my minions and swine to the results of the Poll - Congrats to Elvis who won the Royal Award, edging out Holmes by 2 votes.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:21 PM
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Thumbs up

Elvis single handedly kept us from digging an early hole for ourselves and spending the rest of the game trying to dig our way out.

Since he is a hot and cold player, he needs to get the recognition where possible.

It would be easy to pick Malachi and Daron every game.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
So he has Holmes by 3” and 38 lbs, huge difference.
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As I said, Holmes is still a baby. I'm not sure of his exact age, but 17? 18? You're going to compare his physical stature to that of a full grown 29 year old man?

The point was made that "Unless you are well over 7 foot and bulky, you must have an outside shot in the NBA. Holmes has to show us that before he is going anywhere."

Gobert is not "well over" 7 foot. Gobert is not "bulky". Gobert is not "well over 7 foot and bulky." And Gobert does not have an "outside shot". Yet he's a starter in the NBA. But other than that, you nailed it. So, no, I don't agree that those are requirements.

But, Holmes isn't going to the NBA just yet. On that we can agree.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:18 PM
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Holmes needs to pack on what seems like 20-30 pounds of solid muscle, both in his legs and upper body. That will not happen overnight, nor in a single (or even dual) offseason.


He has NBA potential for certain, but atm, its potential. He has shown he has range out to the free throw lane, but the one he took vs St Louis he went up weak and faded away and missed it on the front end. Like everything else he does, he needs to go up strong and confident, that will come with the added muscle.


I once heard John Calipari make an excellent point. To be a dominate college player, you have to be able to play thru singular contact, ie you have to be able to play thru getting bumped by a man on the way to your shot. To be a solid NBA player, you have to be able to play thru multiple contact, ie you have to be able to play thru contact by more than one player on the way to your shot. Right now, Holmes for all of his talent struggles when somebody mans him up. Typical freshman problem and something I'm sure will be fixed thru hard work in the offseason.


The greatest improvement in this area that I recall is Scoochie...he struggled playing thru contact as a frosh, was weak around the rim, by his junior season you had to foul him to effect him, normal contact in the course of defense no longer bothered him, he could power thru him. I expected the same thing from Mali as a frosh, but he's much stronger thru contact than Schooch was at the same point. If he can develop his outside game the same way Schooch did over this time at UD he might go down as one of our best PGs ever.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:29 PM
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No doubt DaRon could pack on a few pounds and get stronger, but he already has unbelievable instincts and understanding of the game. He’s one of the few I’ve seen who can repeatedly block shots and alter shots at the rim without fouling. Interestingly, he only need 15 more blocks to set the UD single season record.
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
As I said, Holmes is still a baby. I'm not sure of his exact age, but 17? 18? You're going to compare his physical stature to that of a full grown 29 year old man?

The point was made that "Unless you are well over 7 foot and bulky, you must have an outside shot in the NBA. Holmes has to show us that before he is going anywhere."

Gobert is not "well over" 7 foot. Gobert is not "bulky". Gobert is not "well over 7 foot and bulky." And Gobert does not have an "outside shot". Yet he's a starter in the NBA. But other than that, you nailed it. So, no, I don't agree that those are requirements.

But, Holmes isn't going to the NBA just yet. On that we can agree.
You are totally right again. In fact you are always totally right.
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