UDPride Discussion Forums    
     

Go Back   UDPride Discussion Forums > UDPRIDE SPORTS FORUMS > Mens Basketball

» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:04 AM
San Diego Flyer's Avatar
San Diego Flyer San Diego Flyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 14,785
Thanks: 10,072
Thanked 10,494 Times in 4,702 Posts
San Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
Thumbs up From Tennessee Tech's Coach

http://www.ttusports.com/sports/mbkb...20171206z8aj86

"We did some good things," head coach Steve Payne said. "It's a tough place to play and I don't think we played very well. At the same time, we had our chances. In the first half, offensively, we acted like we had never seen a zone, but it's hard to simulate their length and athleticism ..........."

Good stuff.
Reply With Quote
9 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to San Diego Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (12-07-2017), CvilleFlyer (12-07-2017), Flyer 86 (12-07-2017), jack72 (12-07-2017), LI Flyer (12-07-2017), Lifelong Flyer Fan (12-07-2017), NYCFLYER (12-08-2017), Runnin' Rebel (12-07-2017), TXFlyerFan (12-07-2017)
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:12 AM
UACFlyer UACFlyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,224
Thanks: 3,973
Thanked 4,598 Times in 2,845 Posts
UACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeUACFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Zone

"We acted like we'd never seen a zone". That's the best argument for a zone defense I can think of. It is exactly what UConn's coach said after losing to Syracuse the other day.

SU plays zone...."good" zone. Everyone knows that. UConn practiced for SU's zone, of course, and was "prepared" for it. But, for a half UConn played as if they'd never seen a zone. To me that's testament to the effectiveness of playing zone...it takes a half to adjust no matter how well prepared you think you are.

I think a good strategy if you have the right personel is to alternate between zone and man-to-man during the game. Perhaps the Flyers do that occasionally.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:28 AM
Widget's Avatar
Widget Widget is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 419
Thanks: 306
Thanked 556 Times in 190 Posts
Widget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond reputeWidget has a reputation beyond repute
TT shot well from three against the zone. That's one of the drawbacks, but overall I think it was very effective. Never understood coaches that essentially would say "we lost, but at least we lost playing man-to-man defense."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:39 PM
San Diego Flyer's Avatar
San Diego Flyer San Diego Flyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 14,785
Thanks: 10,072
Thanked 10,494 Times in 4,702 Posts
San Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
The skill set for M2M and Zone are very similar. If a player struggles at one, he likely sucks at the other as well, and vicy versy. Enter stage right, Kyle Davis. Play any defense you want and he will make any coach look like a defensive genius.
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to San Diego Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (12-07-2017)
  #5  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:34 PM
SeasonTicketFan's Avatar
SeasonTicketFan SeasonTicketFan is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Beavercreek
Posts: 3,921
Thanks: 4,040
Thanked 4,260 Times in 1,743 Posts
SeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond reputeSeasonTicketFan has a reputation beyond repute
I've seen more zone this year from UD than I probably saw during every UD game I have ever seen combined.

I am not a fan of zone as a primary defense. I like it as a way to cross up a team for a short stretch. However...

Kostas' size makes this zone work better. His length has bothered a lot of team's defensively. That is why it is critical to keep him out of foul trouble. It has also made it much more effective.

The zone still has some weaknesses, offensive rebounding and 3 point shot percentage. Those two kept TT in the game in the first half and some of the second half last night.

In a man to man, Kostas is too prone to reach, not fight through pick's properly etc. This zone is helping hide his weaknesses and leverage his length; (long reach and jump).

We've complained a lot about the offense under Anthony, but I am impressed that he has made this zone work somehow so far. Anthony deserves credit for that. Maybe the foul troubles and injuries forced him to accept zone more. I think BG and AM would have been stubborn and continued to have their man to man burned. Playing more man to man might be better for the long run, but I never saw the defense improve in AM's first two years. Only, after he put the right personnel on the court did the defense improve.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to SeasonTicketFan For This Totally Excellent Post:
Bigtimeflyersguy (12-07-2017), Figgie123 (12-07-2017)
  #6  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:58 PM
Flyer 86's Avatar
Flyer 86 Flyer 86 is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 7,163
Thanks: 31,746
Thanked 1,266 Times in 784 Posts
Flyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond repute
Kostas size and wingspan absolutely makes the zone work for us.

As well as length of guys like Crutcher and DD, smarts and strength of Trey and Jordan Davis, and capable rebounding of Cunningham.

gonna see a good amount of it. Esp against good outside shooting teams.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:13 PM
ud2's Avatar
ud2 ud2 is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,351
Thanks: 6,764
Thanked 6,101 Times in 4,151 Posts
ud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond reputeud2 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Widget View Post
Never understood coaches that essentially would say "we lost, but at least we lost playing man-to-man defense."
I never understood that either. The objective is to try to win the game. If M2M is not working during any given game, then try something else.

Full court press, 3/4 court trap or 1/2 court trap, 2-3 zone, 1-3-1, box and one, 3-2, 2-1-2. Try anything to get the win.

Last edited by ud2; 12-07-2017 at 05:16 PM..
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to ud2 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Beatty Town Coach (12-08-2017), UACFlyer (12-07-2017)
  #8  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:00 PM
Jeff Jeff is offline
General
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: PHL
Posts: 5,660
Thanks: 2,550
Thanked 2,303 Times in 1,387 Posts
Jeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond reputeJeff has a reputation beyond repute
Did CAG run zone at VCU or Bama? Perhaps he's just adjusting to his team.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:01 PM
San Diego Flyer's Avatar
San Diego Flyer San Diego Flyer is offline
Committed to this Web Site and Your Enjoyment!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 14,785
Thanks: 10,072
Thanked 10,494 Times in 4,702 Posts
San Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond reputeSan Diego Flyer has a reputation beyond repute
I understand ud2, but you have to keep the game simple for 90% of the kids. The other 10% nothing helps.

With that many zone options in the game plan, guaranteed they will give up dunks and rebounds. Best approach is to pick a couple and perfect them.
Reply With Quote
3 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to San Diego Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
Beatty Town Coach (12-08-2017), flyercasey (12-08-2017), UACFlyer (12-07-2017)
  #10  
Old 12-08-2017, 09:47 AM
Whacker's Avatar
Whacker Whacker is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,244
Thanks: 710
Thanked 1,043 Times in 451 Posts
Whacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond reputeWhacker has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
In a man to man, Kostas is too prone to reach, not fight through pick's properly etc. This zone is helping hide his weaknesses and leverage his length; (long reach and jump).
Not to mention Flyer guards struggle to contain dribble penetration in m2m further exacerbating the fouling tendencies.
Reply With Quote
2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Whacker For This Totally Excellent Post:
Chris R (12-08-2017), Flyer 86 (12-08-2017)
  #11  
Old 12-08-2017, 09:52 AM
Beatty Town Coach's Avatar
Beatty Town Coach Beatty Town Coach is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,628
Thanks: 1,328
Thanked 1,395 Times in 712 Posts
Beatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond reputeBeatty Town Coach has a reputation beyond repute
UD2, you forgot the "Triangle and two". For which I never see the Triangle and 2, or the Box and 1, as the same as other zone sets; as they serve a much a different purpose.

San Diego is right, you definitely have to watch the cheap easy baskets and the otherwise easy rebounds; but I do think If a team gets good at one or two regular zone sets, that they can make game by game adjustments per the offensive talent of the opponent.

I'm happy to see Coach Grant making the zone a Flyers staple again.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:47 AM
hawkoooo's Avatar
hawkoooo hawkoooo is offline
Brigadier General
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 2,952
Thanks: 1,000
Thanked 1,749 Times in 919 Posts
hawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond reputehawkoooo has a reputation beyond repute
I think AG learned a lot from that second half comeback vs Miss St. We can really frustrate teams with the zone and a game plan of "let em' jack up deep 3s" is going to work against most teams most of the time. Yes good shooting teams will hurt you at times, but they are not going to make them all game. Eventually they will go cold and you can get multiple stops in a row.

I'm not sure if this will be kept up over AG's tenure, but it is quite clear that going forward the zone and our length (especially when you get X back) is going to keep us in games.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-08-2017, 10:58 AM
Flyer 86's Avatar
Flyer 86 Flyer 86 is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 7,163
Thanks: 31,746
Thanked 1,266 Times in 784 Posts
Flyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
Not to mention Flyer guards struggle to contain dribble penetration in m2m further exacerbating the fouling tendencies.

ThIS!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:20 AM
T-Bone 84's Avatar
T-Bone 84 T-Bone 84 is offline
General of the Air Force
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Shiloh, OH
Posts: 8,375
Thanks: 2,350
Thanked 4,960 Times in 2,652 Posts
T-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond reputeT-Bone 84 has a reputation beyond repute
BTC, I remember Donoher throwing some 3-2 zone in the mix in the late ‘70s, when he had 2 post players on the court with 3 wing players. He’d keep guys like Giddings, Ross, Montague, & Kanieski defending the low block from either side of the lane, have Zimmerman, Lee, Doug Harris, et al defend the wings, and have Paxson (with his length) handle the point. It gave teams with traditional offenses and smaller PGs fits for a few trips down the court, and then as soon as the opponent figured it out, BAM, Donoher would switch back to M2M. He used it just enough to keep the opponent on its heels. Strategery!
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
Mad Props to T-Bone 84 For This Totally Excellent Post:
Flyer 86 (12-09-2017)
  #15  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:26 AM
Bill202's Avatar
Bill202 Bill202 is offline
Colonel
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 1,054
Thanks: 279
Thanked 362 Times in 201 Posts
Bill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud ofBill202 has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
BTC, I remember Donoher throwing some 3-2 zone in the mix in the late ‘70s, when he had 2 post players on the court with 3 wing players. He’d keep guys like Giddings, Ross, Montague, & Kanieski defending the low block from either side of the lane, have Zimmerman, Lee, Doug Harris, et al defend the wings, and have Paxson (with his length) handle the point. It gave teams with traditional offenses and smaller PGs fits for a few trips down the court, and then as soon as the opponent figured it out, BAM, Donoher would switch back to M2M. He used it just enough to keep the opponent on its heels. Strategery!
Posted via Mobile Device
Strategery & having more than 1 tool in the box. I like having options to switch momentum. And I'll take a W with any defense.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:57 PM
Flyer 86's Avatar
Flyer 86 Flyer 86 is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 7,163
Thanks: 31,746
Thanked 1,266 Times in 784 Posts
Flyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond reputeFlyer 86 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
http://www.ttusports.com/sports/mbkb...20171206z8aj86

"We did some good things," head coach Steve Payne said. "It's a tough place to play and I don't think we played very well. At the same time, we had our chances. In the first half, offensively, we acted like we had never seen a zone, but it's hard to simulate their length and athleticism ..........."

Good stuff.
"i don't think we played very well". This team was putting 94 plus points on opponents. Some of that was our length, agressiveness and us. Much of that was also THEM.

This zone.... is a very good thing. I like how AG is mixing it up.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement System V2.6 By   Branden

     
 
Copyright 1996-2012 UDPride.com. All Rights Reserved.