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  #101  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Oh, please help me with the parameters of this game we're now playing.

Are we pretending that players with great potential don't improve from their freshman to sophomore season even with minimal playing time during the former? Are we pretending that a season of practice and offseason to evaluate and improve upon both weaknesses and strengths don't matter? Are we pretending that because Landers sat behind players, all with more years of experience than him that he will never be as good as those players? Are we pretending that Landers was better than XW last season or that he isn't better than XW this season?
Straw man argument. You keep moving the goalposts in order to try and be correct a season or two from now.

What can't be argued is that time on the floor in real games counts for not just something...it counts for a lot.

What can't be argued is that it isn't likely for an underclassman to emerge as a leader when he is surrounded by a large group of seniors who led a team.

What can be proven is that Trey developed a ton in the off-season. What can be proven is that Trey made a physical transformation since he stepped foot on campus. What can be proven is that Trey had the same effort as a freshman as he does as a sophomore. What can be proven is that Trey emerged (embraced) as a leader going into his 2nd season because it wasn't his place as a first year. He will be a force for the remainder of his career and a leader on the court.

You are missing the MAJOR point that anyone who has ever been around the game understands. When AG saw exactly what he had...in terms of players executing his system...in terms of what effort he was getting out of certain players...in terms of what buy in he was going to receive...in terms of what the actual results are on the floor...the season became a known quantity and it was time to figure out what the end game is a few seasons from now and how AG was going to get there. Getting there is getting players to either get with the program or get out. Getting there involves buy in and players that plan to.

Like it or not, any realistic person can see that any head coach understands this season is a known quantity. Call it a throwaway season. Call it over with. Call it what you want. His lack of calling a timeout of substituting is by design. He is proving a point and anyone paying attention can see that. The only people that can't see that are the ones looking to point a finger at the lack of success this season. Can you see that the point was proven with Pierce? Guy given 4 minutes of PT and no garbage time...see you to the door. Dude isn't even sniffing the floor in multiple games with garbage time. XW...either battling injuries or being encouraged to see the door or get with the program. Svoboda...getting playing time because he is doing what needs to be done outside of games and is doing well in practice. Freshman are getting tons of playing time since the first 1/3 of the season because AG knows that is the future he is working with. He isn't building around Crosby. He is building around Trey and the freshman. Friggin Jack Westerfield is playing in front of a scholarship player and has 9 minutes compared to XW's 15 in the last 4 games. There are issues there and it isn't because of coaching. It is either because of injuries or the players aren't getting it done. End of story.

I assume many posters on here take pride in revisionist history because that is all you are trying to set up in the future.
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  #102  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Again, three years to accomplish what? It's a simple question.
Wow- really? Simple- clean up AM rebuilding, have a winning record- become a perennial NCAA power? Compete for a national championship?
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  #103  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Wow- really? Simple- clean up AM rebuilding, have a winning record- become a perennial NCAA power? Compete for a national championship?
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In three years?
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  #104  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Kostas was a 4-star in HS (Reported, not Royally believed)
Kostas was a 3-star as an academic casualty last season.
Kostas is a 2-star at best as an eligible redshirt freshman.

Which begs the question, WTF was a healthy Kostas Atapotapenko doing while the injured Trey Landers was improving? I mean, besides studying .
Well Kostas couldn't practice with the team for the first semester last year. Trey came in over the summer. That's a summer and semester he's away from the team and coaches.

He wasn't on campus over the summer last year, got hurt in July and didn't get cleared to I believe till October.

Should he have been on campus last summer? That's a fair argument

He's not in the same situation as Trey
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  #105  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
AG doesn't have any of his players in here yet, give him some time
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a) True
b) False

Crutcher
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  #106  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
a) True
b) False

Crutcher
So far so good then....
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  #107  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
a) True
b) False

Crutcher
And AG pulled that one out with only a few weeks of recruiting. So you could argue that we still haven't seen what he can do from a recruiting perspective.
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  #108  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Sorry, doesn't wash. I can handle the fact he doesn't have the horses but you have to use the horses you do have and he's not using them. If your 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th men of the bench aren't good enough to give minutes and still win, then you don't have a winning roster. You still use them. Is AG the smartest coach in the country where he leaves Timeouts on the floor just about every game in losing efforts? Is he the smartest coach in the country where he believes you're better off losing playing 5 good players almost 40 minutes a game rather than giving them some breathers?

I posted that I have hope for the future because he is really good at recruiting talent. And my hope is that his head scratching moves, or non-moves recently are a way for him to run off players he doesn't see helping him in the near future to get those recruits here faster. Because if he coaches like this every year, we're doomed.
Agree here. The accumulation of starter minutes is leading to obvious fatigue, which leads to mental fatigue. It's also instilled a a degree of hesitation to the 6-9 guys. Is it a "fear to fail", or giving up on the coach, we'll never know.

Being THE leader means getting all you can out of what you have, and finding a method to maximize your assets. Simply focusing on "your guys", is totally unacceptable, and I don't think that is happening.

What is fascinating is the later arguments around development. Are Crutcher (AG guy) and J. Davis (AM guy) getting better due to coaching or just the result of recruiting talent? The same exists for TL or XW. Or is the latter injured? It would be unbelievable that if XW issues weren't physical or his own mental state, that Grant would just push him out.

One thing I refused to believe. I don't think a D-I coach punts a season just to make a statement to his players.
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  #109  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
And AG pulled that one out with only a few weeks of recruiting. So you could argue that we still haven't seen what he can do from a recruiting perspective.
If you are inserting the amount of time into the argument, then I think that makes it much more impressive.
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  #110  
Old 02-16-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Agree here. The accumulation of starter minutes is leading to obvious fatigue, which leads to mental fatigue. .
And mental fatigue today equates to mental toughness tomorrow.
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  #111  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:27 PM
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"He plays his starters too much."

Said no one ever when John Cheney was at Temple.

When you are winning, nobody is counting anyone's minutes played. When you're losing, minutes played suddenly becomes the main factor in outcomes.
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  #112  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:56 PM
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Grant has made multiple comments after games that fatigue was a factor in the loss. Don't act like fans suddenly came up with the idea.
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  #113  
Old 02-16-2018, 01:16 PM
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Let's see so our guys were fatigued against GM, when they all played less minutes. In the VCU game they were fatigued for about 35 minutes, then weren't for the last five, then fatigued for the overtime. Thanks, got it.
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  #114  
Old 02-16-2018, 01:28 PM
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If the bench comes in and play poorly and we lose, Grant sucks. If the starters play most/all of the minutes and we lose due to fatigue, Grant sucks. This puts Grant in the unenviable position of heads I win tails you lose. I'm starting to question the mental/emotional stability of a few posters on this board.
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  #115  
Old 02-16-2018, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Let's see so our guys were fatigued against GM, when they all played less minutes. In the VCU game they were fatigued for about 35 minutes, then weren't for the last five, then fatigued for the overtime. Thanks, got it.
Destroyed that strawman. Congrats.
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  #116  
Old 02-16-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
If the bench comes in and play poorly and we lose, Grant sucks. If the starters play most/all of the minutes and we lose due to fatigue, Grant sucks. This puts Grant in the unenviable position of heads I win tails you lose. I'm starting to question the mental/emotional stability of a few posters on this board.
Yeah, poor, poor, pitiful Anthony Grant. He's just not treated fairly. He comes back to his home school and takes a program that has been to 4 straight NCAA tournaments to an under .500 record in a conference is at its weakest in many, many years. And the poor guy has 95 percent of the fan base making excuse after excuse as to why it's not his fault and how we need to give him 4, 5, 6 years to get his players in here. Poor, poor guy, it's just not fair. Other coaches get treated better in this situation. Especially at UD. Let's look at all the other 1st year coaches that had their Flyers' teams regress this much in their first season and we'll see how unjust he's being treated. Let's start with, Oh heck, never mind, I have to go back before Tom Blackburn to find one.
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  #117  
Old 02-16-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Let's look at all the other 1st year coaches that had their Flyers' teams regress this much in their first season and we'll see how unjust he's being treated. Let's start with, Oh heck, never mind, I have to go back before Tom Blackburn to find one.
We all get that we have had 4 straight trips to the tourney. That has literally nothing to do with this team. Give me a list of players on this roster that were a significant part of those teams. I mean that - I want to see the list.

This is a new team.

You can talk about previous UD coaches, but name me one that lost 70% of the minutes from the year before. Name one that lost two recruits. Now the challenge, name one that lost both the minutes AND the recruits.

AG may or may not be the guy, but let's at least give him a chance to build HIS team before we judge.
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  #118  
Old 02-16-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
We all get that we have had 4 straight trips to the tourney. That has literally nothing to do with this team. Give me a list of players on this roster that were a significant part of those teams. I mean that - I want to see the list.

This is a new team.

You can talk about previous UD coaches, but name me one that lost 70% of the minutes from the year before. Name one that lost two recruits. Now the challenge, name one that lost both the minutes AND the recruits.

AG may or may not be the guy, but let's at least give him a chance to build HIS team before we judge.
Sorry, this one has been rehashed over and over again. Some regression expected. Not this bad. But that wasn't my point I was rebuking the asinine comment "This puts Grant in the unenviable position of heads I win tails you lose." Anybody that says Grant is in an "unenviable position" is just shooting off their mouths without any basis.
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  #119  
Old 02-16-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
If the bench comes in and play poorly and we lose, Grant sucks. If the starters play most/all of the minutes and we lose due to fatigue, Grant sucks. This puts Grant in the unenviable position of heads I win tails you lose. I'm starting to question the mental/emotional stability of a few posters on this board.
Grant or any head coach gets paid to win games. If the unenviable position is trying to justify a loss to the mentally unstable, doesn't that mean he already failed at what he gets paid to do?

Honestly, I don't think Grant is as mentally fragile as you unintentionally make him out to be. He wants to win. Not for one second do I even pretend to think he actually cares about the criticisms on this board or actually coaches to avoid those criticisms. If UD wins, we all win. If UD loses, we all lose. Grant's job isn't any more difficult because there isn't a gray area where UD can lose but he still wins.
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  #120  
Old 02-16-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Grant or any head coach gets paid to win games. If the unenviable position is trying to justify a loss to the mentally unstable, doesn't that mean he already failed at what he gets paid to do?

Honestly, I don't think Grant is as mentally fragile as you unintentionally make him out to be. He wants to win. Not for one second do I even pretend to think he actually cares about the criticisms on this board or actually coaches to avoid those criticisms. If UD wins, we all win. If UD loses, we all lose. Grant's job isn't any more difficult because there isn't a gray area where UD can lose but he still wins.
In case you didn't notice, and by your response you didn't, this post was not directed at Grant. It was posted squarely at a handful of posters on this board.
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  #121  
Old 02-16-2018, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, poor, poor, pitiful Anthony Grant. He's just not treated fairly. He comes back to his home school and takes a program that has been to 4 straight NCAA tournaments to an under .500 record in a conference is at its weakest in many, many years. And the poor guy has 95 percent of the fan base making excuse after excuse as to why it's not his fault and how we need to give him 4, 5, 6 years to get his players in here. Poor, poor guy, it's just not fair. Other coaches get treated better in this situation. Especially at UD. Let's look at all the other 1st year coaches that had their Flyers' teams regress this much in their first season and we'll see how unjust he's being treated. Let's start with, Oh heck, never mind, I have to go back before Tom Blackburn to find one.
I get that it's a fools errand to engage in this with you, because you simply will not apply logic to the situation. But by your measure, Jim O'Brien may be the best first year coach the Flyers have ever had. After all, he took a 12 - 17 UD team, led them to a 22-10 record, first place in the MCC, and 2nd round of the NCAA. That poor crappy coach he replaced, someone named Donoher, must have been one of the worst coaches ever.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Straw man argument. You keep moving the goalposts in order to try and be correct a season or two from now.

What can't be argued is that time on the floor in real games counts for not just something...it counts for a lot.

What can't be argued is that it isn't likely for an underclassman to emerge as a leader when he is surrounded by a large group of seniors who led a team.

What can be proven is that Trey developed a ton in the off-season. What can be proven is that Trey made a physical transformation since he stepped foot on campus. What can be proven is that Trey had the same effort as a freshman as he does as a sophomore. What can be proven is that Trey emerged (embraced) as a leader going into his 2nd season because it wasn't his place as a first year. He will be a force for the remainder of his career and a leader on the court.

You are missing the MAJOR point that anyone who has ever been around the game understands. When AG saw exactly what he had...in terms of players executing his system...in terms of what effort he was getting out of certain players...in terms of what buy in he was going to receive...in terms of what the actual results are on the floor...the season became a known quantity and it was time to figure out what the end game is a few seasons from now and how AG was going to get there. Getting there is getting players to either get with the program or get out. Getting there involves buy in and players that plan to.

Like it or not, any realistic person can see that any head coach understands this season is a known quantity. Call it a throwaway season. Call it over with. Call it what you want. His lack of calling a timeout of substituting is by design. He is proving a point and anyone paying attention can see that. The only people that can't see that are the ones looking to point a finger at the lack of success this season. Can you see that the point was proven with Pierce? Guy given 4 minutes of PT and no garbage time...see you to the door. Dude isn't even sniffing the floor in multiple games with garbage time. XW...either battling injuries or being encouraged to see the door or get with the program. Svoboda...getting playing time because he is doing what needs to be done outside of games and is doing well in practice. Freshman are getting tons of playing time since the first 1/3 of the season because AG knows that is the future he is working with. He isn't building around Crosby. He is building around Trey and the freshman. Friggin Jack Westerfield is playing in front of a scholarship player and has 9 minutes compared to XW's 15 in the last 4 games. There are issues there and it isn't because of coaching. It is either because of injuries or the players aren't getting it done. End of story.

I assume many posters on here take pride in revisionist history because that is all you are trying to set up in the future.
So he's a high school coach?
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I get that it's a fools errand to engage in this with you, because you simply will not apply logic to the situation. But by your measure, Jim O'Brien may be the best first year coach the Flyers have ever had. After all, he took a 12 - 17 UD team, led them to a 22-10 record, first place in the MCC, and 2nd round of the NCAA. That poor crappy coach he replaced, someone named Donoher, must have been one of the worst coaches ever.
So a coach's first year isn't representative?
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:11 PM
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Is it? Is O'Brien's first year representative of what he did at UD? Seriously people, WTF. It doesn't mean anything other than this year was awful. You need at least two years to start a trend. I mean, one time, I went out and shot under par for a round. It doesn't make me a scratch golfer. I also shot a 95 as a 6 handicap. It doesn't make me a terrible golfer. It's one data point, period. At the end of year two, you'll have a better idea of where we are headed. At the end of year three, it will be pretty clear. Until then, there's nothing to prove or disprove.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
In case you didn't notice, and by your response you didn't, this post was not directed at Grant. It was posted squarely at a handful of posters on this board.
I fully understood your post but I don't think you understood my response if that is your interpretation.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I get that it's a fools errand to engage in this with you, because you simply will not apply logic to the situation. But by your measure, Jim O'Brien may be the best first year coach the Flyers have ever had. After all, he took a 12 - 17 UD team, led them to a 22-10 record, first place in the MCC, and 2nd round of the NCAA. That poor crappy coach he replaced, someone named Donoher, must have been one of the worst coaches ever.
Okay, okay, you win. At this point in time AG hasn't proven to be worse than Jim O'Brien. That's a high bar to climb but he got there
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:52 PM
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This is what kills me.

Don't judge AG on anything his first year, he has to get his players and he gets free pass for X&O's criticism. JOB's first year isn't representative.

Many of the same posters on AG's first year at VCU is proof he's a great coach.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
This is what kills me.

Don't judge AG on anything his first year, he has to get his players and he gets free pass for X&O's criticism. JOB's first year isn't representative.

Many of the same posters on AG's first year at VCU is proof he's a great coach.
Let me see if I can give you the parameters of this game.

AG-judge on first year at VCU and Shaka Smart's 2nd year because they were AG's players. Judge on 2nd year at Alabama but forget about his final 2 years because, well, just because. Don't judge on first year at UD, it's all AM's fault.

AM, don't judge on first year improvement because it was addition by subtraction with Staten. Judge on 2nd year but give BG some credit for his 3rd season since Oliver and Kavs were his. Judge on AG's first year because they were AM's players. At same time, judge on first year at Indiana.

See, purely logical.

Also, if rating UD coaches, Don Donoher and AG can do no wrong because they are alumini. OP is so so because he chose to leave for Clemson after not getting us a win in two NCAA tournaments. BG is great because he chose to leave after a garbage season. JOB is the 2nd worst because he took over from the greatest and took our program to the lowest it had been since it became prominent. And AM is the worst because he gave us our most successful 4 seasons in a row but chose to leave for one of the most prestigious jobs in the college basketball world. Tom Blackburn is 3rd because he built the program to prominence and chose to die as our coach rather than leave for better opportunities. He would've been first but the man made the unforgivable sin of not getting a college degree at UD.

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Old 02-16-2018, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
If the bench comes in and play poorly and we lose, Grant sucks. If the starters play most/all of the minutes and we lose due to fatigue, Grant sucks. This puts Grant in the unenviable position of heads I win tails you lose. I'm starting to question the mental/emotional stability of a few posters on this board.
So there's no way that had he invested more minutes earlier to slots 6-9, they might have been a little better, and therefore a deeper team by now? Not here to bash Grant, but to make it sound as if he has no role in the seasons outcome is ridiculous.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Grant's job isn't any more difficult because there isn't a gray area where UD can lose but he still wins.
Exactly.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
In three years?
Yep
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:29 PM
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How about the 4 geniuses who essentially want Grant fired now lay out their plan for success and a timeline. I mean put up or shut up. All you do is bmc about Grant so let's see what you've got.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
How about the 4 geniuses who essentially want Grant fired now lay out their plan for success and a timeline. I mean put up or shut up. All you do is bmc about Grant so let's see what you've got.
I don't want him fired now, you can't fire a bad coach(if he indeed is one) after one season. So you might ask why keep complaining if there's no way he's going to get fired? To that I ask why keep defending if it's absolutely certain he's staying?
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
How about the 4 geniuses who essentially want Grant fired now lay out their plan for success and a timeline. I mean put up or shut up. All you do is bmc about Grant so let's see what you've got.
I've never advocated for Grant to be fired and outside of a few yahoos I don't think anyone else has.

I simply disagree with the notion that "hey we have a young team and a lot of roster turnover, let's give AG free pass from any reasonable criticism this year"

Posters have pointed some I believe legitimate concerns with X&Os, substitutions and lack of improvement. Things that aren't corrected with time or better players.

In fact former Flyers, AG haters and noted internet trolls Bobby Wherli and Kendall Pollard expressed concern at AG's offense. Perhaps they concocted this scheme in udscott's basement.

Under a defensive minded coach the defense doesn't seem to be getting any better. At the end of November against Auburn (against a current #1 seed on ESPN & #7 offense in the NCAA) the D held them to 38% shooting. The last 8 games the defense hasn't played well to say the least.

We've lost 6 of 8 games. 4 of those games by double digits. The A10 is having it's worst season in a decade and the Flyers now are a game out of last place in mid-February. Duquesne with a first year head coach and a team picked to finish last in the A10 is ahead of us in the standings.

I think this team is better than that, being a game out of the A10 basement past valentines day and having the worst season potentially this century is concerning. Others may not
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I simply disagree with the notion that "hey we have a young team and a lot of roster turnover, let's give AG free pass from any reasonable criticism this year"
Who posted that?
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I don't want him fired now, you can't fire a bad coach(if he indeed is one) after one season. So you might ask why keep complaining if there's no way he's going to get fired? To that I ask why keep defending if it's absolutely certain he's staying?
Because a few are indeed calling for him to be fired, without regard for what it would do to the program, and frankly indefensibly regardless of how this year has gone.

Many people who are considered "defenders" have also been critical of some or even many aspects of what we see, myself included. I've questioned how long a person should get to be successful. I had, apparently, expectations that exceeded reality. If I could put AG in AM's shoes last year, same players, etc., what would our outcome have been? No idea. Some would say much worse, but who can say with any certainty. But the last time I checked, AG was not here last year, and starters Kendall Pollard, Kyle Davis, Charles Cooke, and Scoochie Smith are no longer on the roster, having graduated.

So, we have what we have. We know AG has had some success in the past, and also some failure. We know this year has been a failure by anyone's measure, including his own. It is fair to criticism him from that perspective, and to question decisions he makes, even though we don't have the same information that he has and aren't privy to everything he is. That may make some criticism invalid, if we had the same information he does, but nonetheless, it's what fans do. But there is a huge difference between fair criticism of AG and the team this year, and what a number of posters on this board have been saying. And to that very vocal minority, who have not been very logical in their responses, you are apt to get in response a significant number of defenders. Some defend AG personally, because he is a UD grad. Some because you simply can't effectively judge a coach on one year. Some because they understand the damage that would be done to the university and the basketball program if this very vocal minority got their wish. Some just because it's a message board and a place to voice opinions.

I don't know what the motivations of everyone on here are, and I really don't care. No one has to care about my motivations either. But if you think that most people are not going to defend him simply because he's not going to be fired, that's poor thinking IMO. People are going to do it for any number of reasons, some rational, some perhaps not. Probably for the same reason the vocal minority continue to shout fire him from the rooftops, even though he won't be fired.
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  #137  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I don't want him fired now, you can't fire a bad coach(if he indeed is one) after one season. So you might ask why keep complaining if there's no way he's going to get fired? To that I ask why keep defending if it's absolutely certain he's staying?
Or you could look at it from a neutral standpoint instead of someone who was butthurt by the hire to begin with.
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  #138  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Who posted that?
No one that I recall, though I won't say I've seen every single post in every thread.

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Old 02-16-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
He gets the SAME BENEFIT OF 3 YEARS TO BRING IN HIS PLAYERS and BUILD HIS SYSTEM AROUND HIS RECRUITS that nearly all division 1 coaches get, including our previous coaches. It's called patience. AG deserves and will get at MINIMUM, 3 years to institute his system.
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
There are issues there and it isn't because of coaching. It is either because of injuries or the players aren't getting it done. End of story.

I assume many posters on here take pride in revisionist history because that is all you are trying to set up in the future.
Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
No one that I recall, though I won't say I've seen every single post in every thread.
It's every time someone brings up reasonable criticism. Then those people are lumped in with udscott and are said they want to fire the coach whether they've ever advocated for that or not
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Or you could look at it from a neutral standpoint instead of someone who was butthurt by the hire to begin with.
I'm not butt hurt by the hire. I had my reservations but once he was announced as coach, I said to myself "maybe it will be a great hire". I'm butthurt by the results. I'm especially po'd by the assumptions that our very successful previous coach just happened to time things perfectly that he stopped recruiting the past 2 or 3 years because he was going to ride his class of 2017 to the end and then split. I actually allow for the possibility that these 4 bench players that every body keeps accusing of having bad attitudes really only have a personality clash with the new coach, the one they had no say in playing for, and that it would've been different with AM because he had no problem getting players to practice and play for him.

And let's get something straight, nowhere have I seen any of us(the 4 or 5 you seem to group together) say they need to fire AG before next season. Maybe UDSCOTT, but I didn't see it. UD2, OSUFLYER and I have all said that it's not feasible so quit saying that's what we've said because it's a lie.

How come when someone says "I like the hire of AG and I think things are going to be great in the future" you don't have a problem with their projections of the future but when we say "I'm worried about the future and don't think things are going to work out so well" we get jumped on for unnecessary projections? Please answer that one if you can.

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Old 02-16-2018, 09:25 PM
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I don’t mind the criticism of Coach Grant. What bothers the hell out of me is the tone some posters use. Staunch criticism can be delivered with a measure of respect. Coach Grant has earned respect because of his loyalty to UD, his values and his accomplishments. We don’t consider coaches a disposable commodity without having a fair chance to succeed. We are not there.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob View Post
I don’t mind the criticism of Coach Grant. What bothers the hell out of me is the tone some posters use. Staunch criticism can be delivered with a measure of respect. Coach Grant has earned respect because of his loyalty to UD, his values and his accomplishments. We don’t consider coaches a disposable commodity without having a fair chance to succeed. We are not there.
And all we've criticized is his coaching, not his ethics or morality. So quit making crap up.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
And all we've criticized is his coaching, not his ethics or morality. So quit making crap up.
Your missing my point- I don’t mind the criticism as that’s fair game. And I never implied anyone unfairly taking shots at his character. My point is simply the at times disrespectful delivery. The man has earned respect. And I’m not necessarily pointing to you.
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  #144  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:20 AM
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It is OK to question the coach, however I think looking at its with the proper perspective is important.
1. The offense seemed stagnant early in the year. It has improved. Ball movement is much better and 2 point efficiency is outstanding. Turnovers are still high. The offense has improved
2. Defense has really been the big problem. The team plays less zone now and is more physical, but the defense has not improved enough to be competitive. When subs come in, the defense caves.
3. Substitution patterns have been questioned, but the bench basically has lost games. I think that puts a coach in a difficult spot. You are screwed if you sub or not. If you don’t sub, your starters run outf gas.
4. Timeouts. Anthony admitted that he needed to look at that harder and seems to have improved. He is calling timeouts more often
5. Erratic road play. That is a sign of an inexperienced team that lacks warrior mentality.
6. Attitude. Rumors of bad attitude. Most coaches reduce playing time for not having the bight attitude. Easier to do when you have depth.

I find all the comments interesting when the lack of defensive improvement is the biggest problem with the team. Yet, that gets little mention. Yes, turnovers is number 2, but many seem to feel that seems to be on the players. Depth could also be problem number 2 as well.

If you can’t play defense, how important are timeouts? If you and subs can’t play defense, how important is substitution? If you turn the ball over, who takes your spot?
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  #145  
Old 02-17-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I'm not butt hurt by the hire. I had my reservations but once he was announced as coach, I said to myself "maybe it will be a great hire". I'm butthurt by the results. I'm especially po'd by the assumptions that our very successful previous coach just happened to time things perfectly that he stopped recruiting the past 2 or 3 years because he was going to ride his class of 2017 to the end and then split. I actually allow for the possibility that these 4 bench players that every body keeps accusing of having bad attitudes really only have a personality clash with the new coach, the one they had no say in playing for, and that it would've been different with AM because he had no problem getting players to practice and play for him.

And let's get something straight, nowhere have I seen any of us(the 4 or 5 you seem to group together) say they need to fire AG before next season. Maybe UDSCOTT, but I didn't see it. UD2, OSUFLYER and I have all said that it's not feasible so quit saying that's what we've said because it's a lie.

How come when someone says "I like the hire of AG and I think things are going to be great in the future" you don't have a problem with their projections of the future but when we say "I'm worried about the future and don't think things are going to work out so well" we get jumped on for unnecessary projections? Please answer that one if you can.
I don't have any issues with critical assessments...none whatsoever.

I was/am critical of the offense and lack of defensive rotations. There are plenty of posts, especially early on indicating that. With that said, as the season transpires opinions change. At the beginning guys may moan about Pierce not getting any time on the floor when we needed a big. I think that question has been answered. That goes with other aspects that were questioned.

As the season wears on, information becomes available that puts things into perspective. Many have chosen to ignore that information and continue with the AG is a POS coach narrative...sprinkled in with the "but I want him to succeed". The overwhelming majority of the negative posters would rather be right in stating he didn't succeed than actually hoping he does well.

There are many sources readily available that had a pretty good idea that Archie was on the first bus out of town when a big name came knocking. It happened. There were promises to the 4 that graduated last year then it was game on. It was no surprise to many people and if it wasn't a surprise to those people, it sure as hell wasn't a surprise to AM. AM didn't stop recruiting the "last 2 or 3 years". He had a core group that were much better than anyone thought. He would have been dealing with the same **** we are now.

From the IU board on Archie:

"I don't think you can truly judge him as a coach until he has a team of his own players. That said, each year as he adds more of his own players I do expect the team to improve

Overall, that's a mildly disappointing season, but nothing to get bent out of shape about in year 1.

Maybe some of us realize that instant gratification isn't in IU's best long-term interest. Would surely be nice. But not at the cost of cheating....or not representing Indiana as a great institute of higher learning.

The principles that Archie is teaching are foreign to most of our players. It’s going to take time for underclassman to learn, and we will have to bring in recruits that already know those principles.

I'd say it wasn't his coaching but the underachieving player's he has.

You're right IU should've hired Archie a year earlier and they wouldn't be in this position but in no way has Archie underachieved! If you're saying that you know nothing about sports much less basketball.

He also didn't actively recruit any of these guys. They are all leftovers. One nice thing that Holtmann and Underwood has had is they brought in a handful of guys they actively recruited.

Are you a moron? This team has very little talent. If Crean was still here they wouldn't even be competitive in most of these games. Give him a few years to get some talent in...

IU's roster as it is currently ranks in the bottom 4 of the Big 10 by my Talent + Experience ratings. So, I would agree that they are playing pretty well all considered.

And the previous coach left him a roster with no depth... and then he had a key injury to a starter (really 2 because of Hartman), and Josh Newkirk is/was our starting senior PG with not many alternatives.


Sound familiar? Comments are about the same guy that everyone on here thinks was the second coming of Christ.

Look....if we are sitting in this exact same position in 2020, I will be right there pounding on the door for a change. That will be plenty of time to figure out what UD has.
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  #146  
Old 02-17-2018, 08:30 AM
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Of course any guy they shoulda/coulda brought in would be better than AG. Easy to say but no way it can ever be proven. To me taking the chance on AG was worth it because when he is successful, I don' think we will have to go through this cr@p all over again.
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  #147  
Old 02-17-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Sound familiar? Comments are about the same guy that everyone on here thinks was the second coming of Christ.
Excellent post. The only thing I disagree with is your "second coming of Christ" comment. Archie is an excellent coach, gym rat, intense, etc. but I would rank him about a 1 out of 10 on the personality scale. Saw him at least a dozen times (not on game days) during his tenure at UD and he was simply unfriendly. It's not like my feelings were hurt or anything. I just think he wasn't the best ambassador for the University of Dayton that he could be and it wouldn't have taken much effort on his part to improve. I liked him a lot since he won at UD, but that's about it.

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  #148  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
Excellent post. The only thing I disagree with is your "second coming of Christ" comment. Archie is an excellent coach, gym rat, intense, etc. but I would rank him about a 1 out of 10 on the personality scale. Saw him at least a dozen times (not on game days) during his tenure at UD and he was simply unfriendly. It's not like my feelings were hurt or anything. I just think he wasn't the best ambassador for the University of Dayton that he could be and it wouldn't have taken much effort on his part to improve. I liked him a lot since he won at UD, but that's about it.
If you could combine the best aspects of BG and AM, you'd have a heck of a coach.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:13 PM
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For the difference with the AM stuff coming from Indiana is that Archie has proven more as a coach. With AG it's an open question as to whether we're getting VCU AG or Bama AG
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
Excellent post. The only thing I disagree with is your "second coming of Christ" comment. Archie is an excellent coach, gym rat, intense, etc. but I would rank him about a 1 out of 10 on the personality scale. Saw him at least a dozen times (not on game days) during his tenure at UD and he was simply unfriendly. It's not like my feelings were hurt or anything. I just think he wasn't the best ambassador for the University of Dayton that he could be and it wouldn't have taken much effort on his part to improve. I liked him a lot since he won at UD, but that's about it.
His job is to win basketball games what difference does it make how he is off the court
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
His job is to win basketball games what difference does it make how he is off the court
Boy, ain't that the truth. Especially when you look at his 6 years here and can't find a single thing he did that hurt the school or the reputation of the school. I mean if he ran around with a Bobby Knight type of chip on his shoulder that would be one thing but the fact he lived, ate and slept basketball coaching and raised the basketball program up to levels not seen since the 60s, his coaching skill along with this perceived lack of personality did more to bring UD to national consciousness than anybody in over 40 years.

And besides that, my only experience with AM was a good one. Stopped to personally thank my woman and me for coming to Maui to support the team. Obviously at that time he hadn't had the success that began 4 months later so maybe it went to his head.

Does anybody believe that back when AG agreed to take the Alabama job he would've turned it down if UD had offered him at the same time? If your truthful with yourself and answer "No" to that question, why hold it against AM for taking a much better job than Alabama? Also, I question whether AG would've accepted the UD job last April if AM hadn't built the program to what it was.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Boy, ain't that the truth. Especially when you look at his 6 years here and can't find a single thing he did that hurt the school or the reputation of the school. I mean if he ran around with a Bobby Knight type of chip on his shoulder that would be one thing but the fact he lived, ate and slept basketball coaching and raised the basketball program up to levels not seen since the 60s, his coaching skill along with this perceived lack of personality did more to bring UD to national consciousness than anybody in over 40 years.

And besides that, my only experience with AM was a good one. Stopped to personally thank my woman and me for coming to Maui to support the team. Obviously at that time he hadn't had the success that began 4 months later so maybe it went to his head.

Does anybody believe that back when AG agreed to take the Alabama job he would've turned it down if UD had offered him at the same time? If your truthful with yourself and answer "No" to that question, why hold it against AM for taking a much better job than Alabama? Also, I question whether AG would've accepted the UD job last April if AM hadn't built the program to what it was.
AG could have taken the job in 2011 when Archie got it
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  #153  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Sound familiar? Comments are about the same guy that everyone on here thinks was the second coming of Christ.
It's not the people criticizing Grant that keep injecting Archie into the conversation. Look at the first three times he's brought up in this thread and it's quite common in other threads as well.

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Archie went 17-14 (7-9) in Year 2.... I guess he was no good
Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
Again, following a loss you want to place the blame on Anthony Grant! You are in a small minority that won't support him so let me tell you something: Last season we defeated George Mason 83-70 at the UD Arena. Sophomore Otis Livingston II, all 5'11" of him, was guarded by our senior Kyle Davis who made it a habit of locking down the best guard on the opposing team. Livingston II ended up with 9 points! Kyle has graduated and Otis Livingston II is now a junior with another year of experience. He dropped 29 on us tonight (I think that is who you were referencing in your above post). As far as I know AG used up his eligibility back in the 80's so he had to put either of the two freshman Jalen Crutcher or Jordan Davis on Livingston and try to guard him! Archie would have had the same dilemma also had he stayed!
Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Do you really think AM would have a better year than AG at this point? And don't say MW would have been here etc... I'm talking about THESE players, not what could have been...He might have done better but probably not since he didn't develop anybody behind the graduating seniors because you know... he was aiming for a higher job. AM was smart; he rode last years seniors at the expense of this years experience. Tell me he developed Trey Landers. What were his coaches doing with Kostas? He used UD to get where he's at.

Obviously, some are worse than others, but anyone trying to show support of Grant by first trashing Archie is undertaking a fool's errand. Any actual decent discussion just gets sidetracked into a bunch of hypotheticals that ultimately don't go anywhere. I'm just as guilty for engaging, but what gets lost is that we all really just want the same thing and that is for UD basketball to be successful.
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  #154  
Old 02-17-2018, 06:14 PM
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The revisionist history around the Archie Miller era around is here something to behold
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  #155  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
And besides that, my only experience with AM was a good one. Stopped to personally thank my woman and me for coming to Maui to support the team. Obviously at that time he hadn't had the success that began 4 months later so maybe it went to his head.
My mom saw Archie at the Dayton Country Club and bought him a drink. He came over, thanked her for the drink, and he chatted with my parents for a few minutes. They said that he was very nice. So, take that for what it is worth.
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  #156  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:35 PM
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I saw Archie on TV. He had a red tie on. I have a red tie too.

Archie was great. I wish he was still coached the Flyers but he does not. He chose to leave. The last 4 years with him as a coach were great. It did not start out as good.

Anthony Grant's start has not been good. I hope it gets to be great. Time will tell.
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
It's not the people criticizing Grant that keep injecting Archie into the conversation. Look at the first three times he's brought up in this thread and it's quite common in other threads as well.
Obviously, some are worse than others, but anyone trying to show support of Grant by first trashing Archie is undertaking a fool's errand. Any actual decent discussion just gets sidetracked into a bunch of hypotheticals that ultimately don't go anywhere. I'm just as guilty for engaging, but what gets lost is that we all really just want the same thing and that is for UD basketball to be successful.
You glazed over the point...I completely understand the idiotic comparisons...

Except the part where that "great" coach that we just had is in the same **** boat at IU. That is the realistic comparison. A coach that was successful here is running into the same speedbumps. Fortunately for IU, fans aren't calling for his head like half a dozen posters do here on the regular.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:16 AM
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"but i want it and i want it now!!!"

The King believes that too many under 30s around here...you know, the one's with hundreds of participation trophies defining their mediocrity and who have never been told 'no'...have no idea what the term 'tough love' means. AG knows what it means, and a couple players are experiencing it for the first time. Thankfully!

Snowflakes...UGH!
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  #159  
Old 02-18-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The King believes that too many under 30s around here...you know, the one's with hundreds of participation trophies defining their mediocrity and who have never been told 'no'...have no idea what the term 'tough love' means. AG knows what it means, and a couple players are experiencing it for the first time. Thankfully!

Snowflakes...UGH!
Stated with emphasis as only King Rollo could do. We will see how a few of his referenced individuals respond. My guess is they will respond by leaving the program.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Stated with emphasis as only King Rollo could do. We will see how a few of his referenced individuals respond. My guess is they will respond by leaving the program.
That's the problem today....instant gratification and the desire to be catered to.
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  #161  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:23 AM
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How many participation trophies was Archie handing out? Everything I have read has him being harder and more demanding on his players. Maybe the freshman, but it's hard to say any of the returners hadn't experienced any tough love.

The Flyers have done that. Grant doesn’t yell as much as Miller, Cunningham said, but when he does, the players know he means business. All the coaches have already left their mark on the players.

“They’re amazing,” Cunningham said. “They teach us so much stuff, so many different things. They treat us not like basketball players. They treat us like human beings. We have so much respect for them. They take care of us. They want the best for us.”
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...yjh6bRbjbaB6I/

I think he is a tremendous coach. I truly respect him as a coach. I learned so much with him. Players fear him so we played hard during practices and games. He pushed us to get better and reach another level. He is the type of coach you want to have.

The negative thing about Archie is that he is not open to talk to players. It is difficult to talk to him. The worst part, is that he is verbally very aggressive.
http://www.blackburnreview.com/qa-with-alex-gavrilovic/

Last edited by bcross; 02-18-2018 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The King believes that too many under 30s around here...you know, the one's with hundreds of participation trophies defining their mediocrity and who have never been told 'no'...have no idea what the term 'tough love' means. AG knows what it means, and a couple players are experiencing it for the first time. Thankfully!

Snowflakes...UGH!
My only question, by saying "around here", is Rollo refering to the "snowflakes" on the board or the "snowflakes" on the team, or both? I take it as refering to the board.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
My only question, by saying "around here", is Rollo refering to the "snowflakes" on the board or the "snowflakes" on the team, or both? I take it as refering to the board.
Yes.
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  #164  
Old 02-18-2018, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Landers barely played because he was hurt and had guys ahead of him. Archie also barely played Davis and Pollard their freshman year. Same reasons. This is a bad take.
Sorry bcross, you're wrong; Davis and Pollard both played 7-8 minutes per game as an average (6.9 minutes/game for Davis, 8.5 minutes/game for Pollard). They also played 35 and 37 games respectively.
Pollard: 316 minutes
KD: 240 minutes

Now, compare this to Trey who played 9 games total and 52 minutes....(and nobody knows the extent of the injury, how long he had it, etc...)
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Sorry bcross, you're wrong; Davis and Pollard both played 7-8 minutes per game as an average (6.9 minutes/game for Davis, 8.5 minutes/game for Pollard). They also played 35 and 37 games respectively.
Pollard: 316 minutes
KD: 240 minutes

Now, compare this to Trey who played 9 games total and 52 minutes....(and nobody knows the extent of the injury, how long he had it, etc...)
Right and if Trey wasn't hurt he may have played as many minutes KD. None of them logged major minutes. Not sure how this proves me wrong, but you were one that suggested Landers wouldn't play hard for Archie because he refused to play him last year. Don't know how that makes you right on that claim.
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Right and if Trey wasn't hurt he may have played as many minutes KD. None of them logged major minutes. Not sure how this proves me wrong, but you were one that suggested Landers wouldn't play hard for Archie because he refused to play him last year. Don't know how that makes you right on that claim.
Without getting into a Bill Clinton type of definition in terms of "barely played", I would have thought that KD and KP would have played similar minutes as Trey; that was your definition. They clearly played more than "barely" and significantly more than Trey.

It doesn't matter at this point. AM is gone, AG is here. Unlike many of the doomsayers on this board; I'm quite content with the hire of AG.
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  #167  
Old 02-18-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Without getting into a Bill Clinton type of definition in terms of "barely played", I would have thought that KD and KP would have played similar minutes as Trey; that was your definition. They clearly played more than "barely" and significantly more than Trey.

It doesn't matter at this point. AM is gone, AG is here. Unlike many of the doomsayers on this board; I'm quite content with the hire of AG.
The point, which you clearly missed, had more to do with the progress players can make between their freshman and sophomore seasons. There was a night and day difference between KD/KP freshman to sophomore seasons. Landers is in that same boat. Even with what little we saw last year, he is clearly not the same player.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Without getting into a Bill Clinton type of definition in terms of "barely played", I would have thought that KD and KP would have played similar minutes as Trey; that was your definition. They clearly played more than "barely" and significantly more than Trey.

It doesn't matter at this point. AM is gone, AG is here. Unlike many of the doomsayers on this board; I'm quite content with the hire of AG.
He’s also ignoring the minutes KD/KP played in the 9 games before dumb and dumber were kicked off the team. That’s another 3rd of a season before AM worked his magic with the 6.

There’s no comparison to the inexperience AG is dealing with with 3 starters who have a total of 52 minutes of PT.

I too am very happy with AG as I believe when he gets his guys in here he will have good success and also believe he will be willing to stay as long as he welcome. That how alone is worth 4 years for me and most people color me as an impatient person.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
He’s also ignoring the minutes KD/KP played in the 9 games before dumb and dumber were kicked off the team. That’s another 3rd of a season before AM worked his magic with the 6.

There’s no comparison to the inexperience AG is dealing with with 3 starters who have a total of 52 minutes of PT.
That's not even what was being discussed. It had nothing to do with comparing AG/AM, but thanks for interjecting your thoughts?
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  #170  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
That's not even what was being discussed. It had nothing to do with comparing AG/AM, but thanks for interjecting your thoughts?
Sorry mixed up the drivel from 2 different AG bashing threads.
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  #171  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Sorry mixed up the drivel from 2 different AG bashing threads.
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No- actually you have a valid point. KP and KD played very limited minutes early on because the Bass kid played some pg before he was lost due to 2 concussions and then right after that D&D act.
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  #172  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:26 AM
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This thread makes my head hurt. At this point, I think that people don't even know what they're arguing about. Just arguing to argue.

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  #173  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Kostas was a 4-star in HS (Reported, not Royally believed)
Kostas was a 3-star as an academic casualty last season.
Kostas is a 2-star at best as an eligible redshirt freshman.

Which begs the question, WTF was a healthy Kostas Atapotapenko doing while the injured Trey Landers was improving? I mean, besides studying .
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  #174  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:59 PM
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I think these Flyers have potential. Just sayin'
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  #175  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
His job is to win basketball games what difference does it make how he is off the court
Sean Miller agrees.
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  #176  
Old 02-24-2018, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
Sean Miller agrees.
personality ≠ personal conduct
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
Excellent post. The only thing I disagree with is your "second coming of Christ" comment. Archie is an excellent coach, gym rat, intense, etc. but I would rank him about a 1 out of 10 on the personality scale. Saw him at least a dozen times (not on game days) during his tenure at UD and he was simply unfriendly. It's not like my feelings were hurt or anything. I just think he wasn't the best ambassador for the University of Dayton that he could be and it wouldn't have taken much effort on his part to improve. I liked him a lot since he won at UD, but that's about it.

The Miller Bros. have the personality of a wet napkin because, by their own account, they have done nothing but dribble a basketball since they were 4 years old. No parties, no school dances, nothing. Just dribbling a basketball.

So they’re really good at dribbling a basketball, but not much else...
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Old 02-25-2018, 09:16 AM
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Had lunch with Archie once and lets say thank god Allen Griffin was also there or else there wouldn't have been much conversation.
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  #179  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
The Miller Bros. have the personality of a wet napkin because, by their own account, they have done nothing but dribble a basketball since they were 4 years old. No parties, no school dances, nothing. Just dribbling a basketball.

So they’re really good at dribbling a basketball, but not much else...
It seems that at least one of them is pretty good at dealing with agents. Does that count?
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Old 02-25-2018, 12:00 PM
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Archie is an introvert

Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Had lunch with Archie once and lets say thank god Allen Griffin was also there or else there wouldn't have been much conversation.
I've met Archie and had a few conversations with him. I found him to have a personality, but to be shy. He warms up and has a sense of humor. He can talk about other things beside basketball, but he is very focused.

I've had conversations with him about Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. He opened up to me that those times are tough because of the basketball schedule. It hurts his family time and that seems to pain him.

I thought Archie evolved and handled his public speaking much better as he grew more secure in the job.

In this society, we treat introverts like lepers, but often they are the most brilliant at what they do. Would you rather have a brilliant brain surgeon who is an introvert or a Dick Vitale type operate on you? I vote for the introvert every time. I want a brilliant surgeon not a BS back slapper.

Yes, we want our coaches to be great PR agents, but I think we would rather have them win games.
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  #181  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:09 PM
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If this was a school where a coach needed to generate interest in the program, sell season tickets and or get donors motivated then that might be an issue
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  #182  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Had lunch with Archie once and lets say thank god Allen Griffin was also there or else there wouldn't have been much conversation.
Morgan let's Archie have her Bloomingdale's Visa?
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  #183  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:55 PM
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Not saying it was a bad thing, just saying he didn't have a lot to say.
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  #184  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:14 PM
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Watching a bit of the Memphis beatdown of UConn and thinking, how can a team that has 2 national championships in the past 7 years be 13-16 but UD isn’t allowed to have its own off year with all the player issues we’ve had this year?

I haven’t been paying attention but I’m guessing UConn is on it’s 3rd coach this season?
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:36 AM
TerryK_67 TerryK_67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Watching a bit of the Memphis beatdown of UConn and thinking, how can a team that has 2 national championships in the past 7 years be 13-16 but UD isn’t allowed to have its own off year with all the player issues we’ve had this year?

I haven’t been paying attention but I’m guessing UConn is on it’s 3rd coach this season?
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I was born and raised (in 1950s) in Connecticut. UCONN sucked at basketball before Jim Calhoun, and many thought they will suck after he left..... He was replaced by hand picked Kevin Ollie a couple years ago. My contacts say the real reason for their lack of success is the Calhoun has not really left..... he is not the "coach", but is still way too involved.... so the program is trying to please 2 masters.
There are a couple of Connecticut posters on UD Pride that could probably speak with more knowledge than I.....
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
I was born and raised (in 1950s) in Connecticut. UCONN sucked at basketball before Jim Calhoun, and many thought they will suck after he left..... He was replaced by hand picked Kevin Ollie a couple years ago. My contacts say the real reason for their lack of success is the Calhoun has not really left..... he is not the "coach", but is still way too involved.... so the program is trying to please 2 masters.
There are a couple of Connecticut posters on UD Pride that could probably speak with more knowledge than I.....
Much of what you say is correct. And although Calhoun hand picked Ollie as his successor things are no longer on good terms between them. My sources tell me Calhoun was/is often at practices and Ollie finally told him him he can't be there anymore which soured the relationship. Unfortunately for Ollie, Calhoun is still part of the athletic department (basketball consultant) and probably is destroying him with the administration. Although other sources tell me Ollie is a dirty coach too (even though the record doesn't show that). At any rate my guess is Ollie won't last past this season.
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  #187  
Old 02-26-2018, 02:18 PM
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I travel to Connecticut for work I had people tell me that Ollie went through a very nasty divorce and hasn't been the same since
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I travel to Connecticut for work I had people tell me that Ollie went through a very nasty divorce and hasn't been the same since
Also, it can't help that he looks like Obama.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Much of what you say is correct. And although Calhoun hand picked Ollie as his successor things are no longer on good terms between them. My sources tell me Calhoun was/is often at practices and Ollie finally told him him he can't be there anymore which soured the relationship. Unfortunately for Ollie, Calhoun is still part of the athletic department (basketball consultant) and probably is destroying him with the administration. Although other sources tell me Ollie is a dirty coach too (even though the record doesn't show that). At any rate my guess is Ollie won't last past this season.
Obviously, Jim Calhoun has way too much time on his hands. His one and done gig doing Big 10 basketball games on ESPN didn't work out very well. He was quite possibly the worst college basketball analyst ever. Couldn't understand anything he said and to make matters worse, would never shut up!
Almost as painful as listening to Dickie V call a Duke game.
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Old 02-26-2018, 06:13 PM
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How about a great PR man with a personality, and they win games.
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Old 02-26-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
Obviously, Jim Calhoun has way too much time on his hands. His one and done gig doing Big 10 basketball games on ESPN didn't work out very well. He was quite possibly the worst college basketball analyst ever. Couldn't understand anything he said and to make matters worse, would never shut up!
Almost as painful as listening to Dickie V call a Duke game.
He does speak like he has marbles in his mouth.
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Watching a bit of the Memphis beatdown of UConn and thinking, how can a team that has 2 national championships in the past 7 years be 13-16 but UD isn’t allowed to have its own off year with all the player issues we’ve had this year?
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This is an easy one...

Two National Championships in 7 years would promote the coach right to President of the University. As soon as that happens, you're on your way to this argument.
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:51 PM
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Well this was certainly a fun re-read
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:40 PM
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Of course all the guys that wanted to dump AG will come back with how none of us could have predicted last year's success. Well, predicting last season's success they would be 100% correct but the difference is the pro AG posters knew he needed at least a couple plus years to get his system/players acclimated and certainly felt that the success Archie had could at least have been met.

Last edited by steve; 11-23-2020 at 03:25 PM..
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:16 PM
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Where is udscott???
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Of course all the guys that wanted to dump AG will come back with how none of us could have predicted last year's success, blah blah blah. Well, predicting last season's success they would be 100% correct but the difference is the pro AG posters knew he needed at least a couple plus years to get his system/players acclimated and certainly felt that the success Archie had could at least have been met.
Well, while I didn't like the hire(yes, I was wrong), I did not want him fired. I did have issues with the way clashes with players were handled back then but looking how it worked out, I was wrong again. The clashes that made players want to leave actually worked out for the program.

I now look back and wonder what would've happened if XW and KA had been babied and hung around for one more season. I'm thinking that would've slowed Obi's rise or would've caused a heck of lot more conflict in 2018-2019 if Obi moved past them on the depth chart.

Things accelerated and for that I'm very happy. Heck, what would've happened had Jordan Davis been around last year? That great love for each other and the chemistry that came with it might not have been there. He would not have been happy losing playing time to Rodney and Ibi and would also have knocked Cohill down the depth chart and probably caused him to leave.

I've learned something from all of this. One is that coaching a team to greatness in a non-power conference takes a whole other skill set than the alternative. There's a major difference in recruiting one and dones than to recruit key players for 2, 3 or 4 seasons. Both Grant and Miller have proven to be great coaches in programs that rely on development while not as much in programs that depend on instant talent.

But while I was wrong in a lot of my assumptions about Grant's coaching in his first and second seasons, I always left room that his recruiting could still take us to the next level. And while Anthony Grant has gained a lot of coaching knowledge from his vast experiences and great coaches he's worked under or played for, what really has propelled him so far so fast these past few years is his NBA credentials. He can run an NBA type offense and therefore can recruit very good players who can benefit by that type of play and coaching. Players that have a legitimate shot at the NBA but not a sure shot without the development.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:30 PM
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this was fun to relive,
thanks for finding and reposting!

Go Flyers!
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:44 PM
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I appreciate your humility Smitty. Not a snarky comment...truly mean it.
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Kostas was a 4-star in HS (Reported, not Royally believed)
Kostas was a 3-star as an academic casualty last season.
Kostas is a 2-star at best as an eligible redshirt freshman.
Im glad I sat this thread out the first time around so I didnt make any comments to come back to bite me. I know who I wont get my talent evaluation from now
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Old 11-23-2020, 03:17 PM
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?? I was 3-for-3...what is there to question??

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...ntract-giannis

Kosta's only value to the Lakers is as bait to attract his brother...therefore, I stand by my original, royal, golden and 100% accurate description from 2 years ago.
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