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  #1  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:28 PM
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I am curious

are people more bullish about this years team than they were last year on the eve of the season?

I have been waiting for this year since the first time I saw Juwan play. Last year I was hoping for the best but I was skeptical. Too many players with serious holes in their games.

As it turned out they came out flat with poor efforts early in the season (especially PR and Towson). Marcus struggled, RL was never the same (especially on defense) and my concerns came to pass.

I realize this years team is not going to be as good defensively but I have very high expectations for the offense with the addition of Staten and Parker. IMO(maybe I am being overly optimistic) Flyer fans are going to quickly forget the guard play of the last few years.

If they defend decently the 2010-11 version of the Flyers is going to be very good.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:39 PM
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I was bullish last year. We had so much coming back from a 2nd round NCAA appearance. I thought it was well-founded optimism, even in retrospect.

This year, I have told myself over and over that I would reserve judgement until I saw all the scrimmages. There are just too many new guys. I think we have good returners, but I need to see the guards before I believe.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2010, 09:54 PM
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i was more excited about this year's team last year than i was about last year's team last year.

i hope that answers your question.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:08 PM
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I wouldn't say I am more bullish about the number of wins or the Flyers' expected finish in the A10, but I am very bullish on the talent of the team. We just have too many tough road games in the non-con (Old Dominion, Seton Hall, Ole Miss, UC at a "neutral" site) and early in the A10 season (@StL, @Umass, @Xavier in our first four games conference games...gulp). Freshmen and transfers, no matter how talented, struggle with new systems and especially on the road.

But I think by the end of the year, the 2010 Flyers will be a better team than the 2009 Flyers. BG has a "four star"-type talent in each class (CW-sr, CJ-jr, JB-so,JS-fr) which is a rare thing at a program below the BCS level. I could easily see any of those four players getting minutes in the Big East or Big Ten. Both CJ and CW are close to finished products IMO, but Josh Benson and Juwan Staten could really elevate the team by contributing more and more as the year goes on.

I also really like the skill depth on the Flyers this year. It remains to be seen if any of the freshmen will turn out to be good shooters, but I do feel confident that Josh Parker and a healthy Luke Fab will provide some scoring punch from outside and in the half court. I also haven't quite given up on Paul Williams becoming a scorer for us. He might just emerge now that Marcus, London, and Rob have moved on.

I really appreciated the toughness and fight that the senior class gave us last year, but their limitations on offense allowed our A10 opponents to "gimmick" defend us too often and bog down our offense. When Rick Majerus basically refused to send ANY of his players to the offensive glass so that they could get back on D and force us into a half court game, it gave a blueprint for every A10 team on how to beat us (and a blueprint that the BCS teams in the NIT ignored...). Without the shooting and passing skill to execute in the halfcourt, our opponents could concede possessions to us and not pay the price.

I feel this year we will have the players to score in the halfcourt and that will not only open up the flow of the Flyers games but will make the team a really fun and enjoyable one to watch. Can't wait!
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2010, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I was bullish last year. We had so much coming back from a 2nd round NCAA appearance. I thought it was well-founded optimism, even in retrospect.

This year, I have told myself over and over that I would reserve judgement until I saw all the scrimmages. There are just too many new guys. I think we have good returners, but I need to see the guards before I believe.
Even if, I mean when, we kick butt in the scrimmages, I am going to try to keep the bar set low. I would much rather have the team out perform my expectations providing a nice surprise, then to expect a higher number of wins than we may obtain and then be dissapointed.

So since no one has thrown out a regular season record yet, I will be the first and say 22-9.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:53 PM
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Paris- I am with you.

We had a lot of returning players last year, but many players had holes in their games. Free throw shooting was not good in several spots, a PG that could not shoot, a center that was offensively challenged. BG had to coach around those limitations and the players had to play around those same limitations. We struggled in conference play because the opposing coaches saw all those same holes and exploited them. Those coaches knew they could not match our athletes. It was get back on defense and stop our fast break. Get it into a half-court game. Remember our rebound advantage at "X"? And we still lost.

We excelled in the NIT because all those BCS schools thought they could match or exceed our athletes and play up and down ball. Big mistake.

This year I do not see those same holes. Sure, we lost a ton of seniors. We also lost a ton of seniors with holes in their games. We also lost a ton of seniors that gave us a pretty good defense. I see very few players with missing parts of their game this year. However, I see us as being a little more challenged defensively. Conference coaches will need a new game plan to stop us this year - if they can. IMHOP we will be a more rounded team this year. Can you imagine having a starting point guard - be it Parker or Staten - that can rise up and drain a trey. That is not something we have seen since Roberts. Will that ability to pull a defense away from the bucket open up the inside for Wright, Searcy, and Benson? The items that we might lack this year - defense and rebounding - can be coached. The items we lacked last year - mostly shooting - are not easily coached. BG could have coached LW last year until the cows came home, but London was never going to be a good shooter. We will just have to wait and see. I am cautiously optimistic.

Last edited by ud69; 09-26-2010 at 10:58 PM..
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2010, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
are people more bullish about this years team than they were last year on the eve of the season?

I have been waiting for this year since the first time I saw Juwan play. Last year I was hoping for the best but I was skeptical. Too many players with serious holes in their games.

As it turned out they came out flat with poor efforts early in the season (especially PR and Towson). Marcus struggled, RL was never the same (especially on defense) and my concerns came to pass.

I realize this years team is not going to be as good defensively but I have very high expectations for the offense with the addition of Staten and Parker. IMO(maybe I am being overly optimistic) Flyer fans are going to quickly forget the guard play of the last few years.

If they defend decently the 2010-11 version of the Flyers is going to be very good.
This team might be better on D this year
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:17 AM
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I'm as excited as ever. Remains to be seen how the guys gel. I think there is going to be some growing pains as a team, but I'm also thinking the Flyers are going to suprise quite a few teams. Finally what did BG learn from the run to the NIT title?! I'm hoping the same confidence comes out on the road this year, especially in conference.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
are people more bullish about this years team than they were last year on the eve of the season? ........

{last year}Too many players with serious holes in their games.

Flyer fans are going to quickly forget the guard play of the last few years.
Had to get in on this one Sea Bass. I finally came to unmercifully criticize BG after Atlantic City because however he managed, he put the team in position and didn't pluck out the results {pre-NIT}. I only have been here the two years you refer to, and I discerned quickly that there was lack of basis to judge BG one way or the other given the fact of point guard problems.
I have no juices (yet) for this year, but anticipate forming an opinion of BG in a very changed context.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 View Post
This team might be better on D this year
I guess that is possible, but I will be suprised if we rank higher than last year on the national scale in what I consider the best metric for evaluating our effectiveness on defense (Pomeroy's adjusted defensive efficiency).

I fully expect us to be good defensively because of BG's tendencies and ability to teach team defense, but we were exceptional last year, and that is hard to match.

I remember last year, I was disappointed with our defense after about the first 7 games, and then the team really began to gel on that end of the floor. We came a long way from the beginning until the end of the year.

Last edited by Fudd; 09-27-2010 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:47 AM
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I have also been excited about this team (assuming CW stayed) since I saw staten play and the excitement grew when I watched parker play in the red/blue game last year. Staten and Parker should both be able to create some easy shots for others and make them more productive.

We should post a poll after the Red/Blue game and ask people if they are more or less bullish than before the scrimmage.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:01 AM
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Bullish .... just enjoying the ride

Hard for me to say that I expect more than last years team. Or about my expectations.
This is going to be a hard team to watch for me ....
Smaller guards, but better offensive minded guards (better natural tendencies)
Kurt gone, good on offense, but potentially bad on defense.

I think this team will have potential. Just not sure how quickly it will show. Or how dependably it will show.
I do anticipate a better A10 showing. By then, the new players should have adjusted and 'gel'-ed. I don't envision BG having trouble have these guys coached up by then.

I admit it ... I am used to a defensive minded team. Not sure I remember an offensively minded UD team. I just don't know how I am going to react.
No disrespect to current team, but I think London and Marcus leadership could be missed. Will take some time for the leadership to evolve. And I am biased, I like my leadership coming from guards (yes, I am a 'little man'.)

Should be fun to watch.
Is it really only 4 weeks until RedBlue? Oh wait, that's another thread.
Go Flyers
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:58 AM
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Smile Opposite of Last Year's Hype

I am looking forward to this season because the preseason "hype" does not favor the Flyers.
I believe the fight to garner national attention will be a good incentive for this team to excel
and I think they may be better than last year's edition. Last year's preseason ranking was a heavy load for the team. This year they will start with having to prove their worth and identity. The key, for me, is the degree to which the new back court can play with poise.
The talent and quickness is definitely there. If the new back court can pass and defend this will be another good UD team. Go Flyers!
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:07 PM
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I was much more bullish last year. I was very high on our defensive potential and thought we couldn't possibly be worse in my 3 highest concern areas:

1. Coaching
2. Set offense / shooting execution
3. PG play

We actually got worse in some of these for most of the season, amazingly enough. Most of that was because of a key, nagging injury to MJ (funny how making a few jump shots makes the coach smarter, eh?).

This year I think I would list my top concerns in no particular order:

1. PG play
2. Shooting
3. Experience
4. Defense - particularly at the 5 spot
5. Coaching

We've got to have PGs capable of controlling the action, we've just got to shoot better from outside of 5', and BG has to do a better job this year of maximizing our potential.

And DS better learn to play defense like BG wants him to or we'll never reap the benefit of his superior (to KH) offensive skills.

All-in-all, I'm very bearish. And also unabashedly optimistic that every piece will fall in place for our sweet 16 run.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:45 PM
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It all comes down to whether or not Gregory can lead this team to victory in hostile environments. At home, we're tough. On neutral courts we're equally tough. True road games...100% UGLY.

Was the NIT a learning experience for our coach? Or did he just let the horses run wild?

We have the talent to win the A10.
We have the depth to win the A10.
Do we have the upperclass leadership...?
Do we have the strategy??? Coaching??? Guts????
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
This year I think I would list my top concerns in no particular order:

1. PG play
2. Shooting
3. Experience
4. Defense - particularly at the 5 spot
5. Coaching
Searcy and Kavs will play a major role in Dayton's conference success (or lack thereof). The A10 is loaded with good post players this year.

Player - SCHOOL - Stats
Allen - TEM - 11.5 pts, 10.7 reb
Spears - CHA - 16.0 pts, 5.9 reb
Gaston - FOR - 17.9pts, 11.1 reb, 1.7 blk
Nicholson - STB - 16.4 pts, 7.1 reb
Saunders - DUQ - 15.0 pts, 11.3 reb, 2.9 blk, 2.8 stl
Reed - STL - 12.4 pts, 7.9 reb, 2.1 blk
Murray - LAS - 12.2 pts, 6.6 reb, 2.3 blk
Braswell - CHA - 9.5 pts, 8.6 reb
Justin Harper - RIC - 10.6 pts, 5.4 reb
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:39 PM
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Can't really take issue with any of the comments so far in this thread. Generally, I think we'll be better and more complete on offense, but we may have a fall-off on the defensive end, especially our interior defense. Kurt started four straight years for a reason, and it wasn't his shooting. And Marcus was no slouch on D either. In the A10 other teams will have to play us more or less straight-up instead of using the gimmick defenses we saw last time around.

Our games may see higher scores.......for both teams. But I think we'll be a better finishing group in close games, and that was our downfall in 2009-2010.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
But I think we'll be a better finishing group in close games, and that was our downfall in 2009-2010.
Why do you say that?
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Why do you say that?
I think Gazoo is referring to our inability last year to make plays at the end of several games last year where our PG's either turned it over or never got us into a position for a good shot-see, Duquesne and St. Joe's games.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
I am looking forward to this season because the preseason "hype" does not favor the Flyers.
Last years team definitely read too many press clippings about being a "ranked" team. They came out flat (especially defensively) early in the season.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
But I think we'll be a better finishing group in close games, and that was our downfall in 2009-2010.
Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Why do you say that?
Not answering for bobber, I'd say yeah , because BG should really learn from a season like last year. I think BG has a good deal of will (a positive force in accomplishing) that was distressed by overwhelming challenges last year.

Aside from will, coaching facets can be another matter. I don't recall ever seeing a team as well regarded look so in dissaray and lost as in the St. Joe's game. I am looking forward to seeing better organization starting with point guard.

I also concur that the 5 spot is a pivotal question. KH was adequate + some on defense.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:38 PM
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The 2009-2010 Flyers were easy to defend in the half court, hopefully this team will take a huge step forward in that area (at least that is what I am counting on).

You reach a point in the game where you have to be able to give the ball to a player and tell him to make a play by either scoring himself or creating an opportunity for a teammate. IMO Staten can be that player.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:44 PM
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I hope to see the Flyers "play small" a lot this year.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:55 PM
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Agreed. Last year everyone generally fell into one of three categories: players that could dribble, players that could score off the ball or neither. Having just one or two players that are a triple threat should dramtically change the dynamic.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:37 PM
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I opened this thread was much caution...
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 View Post
This team might be better on D this year
I'll be very impressed if thats the case. For all of Londons offensive limitations, he was an absolute pain in the ass on defense to opposing point guards when UD pressured the ball.

My questions on defense are at the center position. Can Searcy and Kavanaugh move their feet well enough to defend the post without getting into foul trouble? Thats my concern.

Also, I think this will be Josh Benson's breakout year offensively. We saw glimpses of his talent last year. I think he starts to put it together this season.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1 View Post
Not answering for bobber, I'd say yeah , because BG should really learn from a season like last year. I think BG has a good deal of will (a positive force in accomplishing) that was distressed by overwhelming challenges last year.

Aside from will, coaching facets can be another matter. I don't recall ever seeing a team as well regarded look so in dissaray and lost as in the St. Joe's game. I am looking forward to seeing better organization starting with point guard.

I also concur that the 5 spot is a pivotal question. KH was adequate + some on defense.
On the plus side you have a guy who has been a head coach for, what, 7 years now, and he will now have 1 more. Big change from last year? I would say probably not.

On the negative side you had 7 seniors (5 scholarship) graduate including both of your point guards and your emergency point guard, plus your most reliable overall player (MJ). This year we will have 4 seniors (2 scholarship), only 1 of which has started or finished a game at UD. And you have 2 new players who have never worn a UD uniform running the point next year.

I'm trying to figure out why one might believe we'll be better in crunch time next year, other than mean reversion. We were just so bad last year it can only get better? That might be true.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
On the plus side you have a guy who has been a head coach for, what, 7 years now, and he will now have 1 more. Big change from last year? I would say probably not.

On the negative side you had 7 seniors (5 scholarship) graduate including both of your point guards and your emergency point guard, plus your most reliable overall player (MJ). This year we will have 4 seniors (2 scholarship), only 1 of which has started or finished a game at UD. And you have 2 new players who have never worn a UD uniform running the point next year.

I'm trying to figure out why one might believe we'll be better in crunch time next year, other than mean reversion. We were just so bad last year it can only get better? That might be true.
Gazoo

Here are a couple reasons to help ease your concerns on this team finishing better than last years team:

--There are 3 players (CW, CJ, PW) who played extensively at the end of games last year. And they are 3 of our better FT shooters in crunch time. Barring foul trouble, that is 60% of your offense/defense that every flyer fan should be comfortable with.
--LW was not an effective FT shooter. While BG would offense/defense substitute when possible, LW's defense was negated if he was on the bench due to his FT % (although, he hit some key FT's down the stretch last year)
--Lowery tried to "the man" too often in late game situations. Not to belittle RL's contribution to the team, but I consider this a little addition by subtraction.
--Parker has experience (2 years at Drake and 1 year on the bench)...he is not a Freshman.
--Staten is not a normal FR. He played at a high level last year and he played for a Championship team (runner up actually) the year before. Not to mention, he has played AAU at the highest level for several years.
--It remains to be seen but I think the PG "basketball IQ" will be much higher this year. As you know this is critical in late game situations.

Center is the one spot that could hurt us this year. Kurt was a very strong defensive presence in late game situations last year. At the end of last season, I told several friends who follow the flyers that we will all miss Kurt next year more than they could imagine. They all thought I was crazy. We shall see.

I believe Kurt would even be more effective on this years team. His offensive liabilities were magnified due to our LW's inability to shoot and MJ's nearly year long shooting slump.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by keats '91 View Post
No disrespect to current team, but I think London and Marcus leadership could be missed. Will take some time for the leadership to evolve. And I am biased, I like my leadership coming from guards (yes, I am a 'little man'.)
Keats...Agree that leadership will be an issue but I'm not so sure that I agree about MJ being a leader last year. In fact, I would argue that MJ's lack of leadership during his nearly season-long funk was a big part of why the Flyers had a subpar year last season.

He stepped up big time in the NIT's there's no deny that. But I wonder how good the Flyers might've been if he had played like that all year and how much more of a leader he might've been if whatever was bothering him wasn't bothering him.

I'm cautiously optomistic. Love having real PGs that have basketball skills. I think the D will be fine. My biggest concern is with the big guys...Searcy/Kavs/JB. They need to contribute quality minutes without constant fouling and flopping....
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:40 PM
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I was definitely more bullish last year - with just about everyone returning. Even with Lowrey out, I figured we'd make a great run in the second half and be a better overall team by that point.

Like many other posters here, I am concerned about our defense at the 5-spot and a little bit concerned about our lack of depth at guard if someone gets hurt.

I expect to miss the ridiculous defensive pressure of last year, but I also expect to enjoy more options on offense and a more open game.

I'm also expecting about 22-9 with early troubles on the road against good teams.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I'm trying to figure out why one might believe we'll be better in crunch time next year
Because RL was a turnover machine (maybe he never fully recovered from his injury) and LW couldn't shoot. Would you really take RL and LW over JS and JP? I loved LW's defense and toughness, but he hurt us on offense. MJ didn't play well at all most of the season (until the NIT). We won't miss MP much. PW played and shot very well in the NIT. I see him being much improved this season. I'll take this season's guards over last season's guards every time. We will have better shooters and better creators, which should open up the middle for CW, more like it was the first half of 07-08. CJ will be a stud and JB should be much improved with a year under his belt. If Searcy and Kav can make up for the loss of KH on defense, we will be tough to deal with.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:45 PM
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Lowery had some TOs at inopportune times, swiped at Holloway and got blocked on the final shot at Saint Joe's, but his A/TO ratio of 1.6 on the season is not that bad. His shooting percentage inside the arc was bad at 37.6%, but he did hit 37.7% on 122 attempts from 3pt land.

We just lost lots of very close games, so everyone looks for reasons. IMO, Lowery was a little worse on defense last year because of his leg injury, but it's hard to fault him for that. He really battled back from that devestating injury to make himself worthy of a lot of minutes last year. If he had failed to work himself back to good health, we could have had big pg depth problems last year.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:47 PM
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I had higher expectations last year than I have this year, but I expect this year's team to do better than last year's team did.

Marcus redeemed the season in the NIT, but his overall season was a disappointment and it had a big impact on the team as a whole.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Why do you say that?
Did you see the Illinois game? Brad Nessler, I think it was, called it perfectly, and I paraphrase: "The Flyers had all sorts of problems finishing close games this season. Their guards just kept playing 100 miles an hour when they didn't need to."

I know the talking heads don't always have it right. But this time one of the network guys absolutely nailed it. London was often a liability when it came down to the last few possession. He couldn't shoot from the floor and he couldn't shoot free throws either. So the other teams played 5 on 4 defense and concentrated on Chris Wright.

Sorry......our guards, as much as I loved them on defense and in the open court, were not an asset in a half court situation at the end of the game.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:31 AM
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Wink

Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
i was more excited about this year's team last year than i was about last year's team last year.

i hope that answers your question.
It just goes to show you...things are a lot more like they used to be than they are today.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
Did you see the Illinois game? Brad Nessler, I think it was, called it perfectly, and I paraphrase: "The Flyers had all sorts of problems finishing close games this season. Their guards just kept playing 100 miles an hour when they didn't need to."

I know the talking heads don't always have it right. But this time one of the network guys absolutely nailed it. London was often a liability when it came down to the last few possession. He couldn't shoot from the floor and he couldn't shoot free throws either. So the other teams played 5 on 4 defense and concentrated on Chris Wright.

Sorry......our guards, as much as I loved them on defense and in the open court, were not an asset in a half court situation at the end of the game.
I cant argue with this, but to me the vast majority of the problems at the end of the game were attributable to Brian Gregory and Rob Lowery. Gregory because he almost always played with Lowery at the end of the game because he feared London's unorthodox skillset would not get the job done (he may have been right, but we were simply a better team with LW on the floor no matter the situation).

Rob Lowery deserves blame because he tried to do too much. It was almost like he thought, "oh coach puts me in for London at the end so it must be on me. I have to prove he is making the right decision." He shot too much, held onto the ball too long, and didn't allow the talent around him to make plays (something London did extremely well).

To me, Lowery wasn't the right guy for the closer job, even if the alternative was non-traditional. I agree with those who will feel more comfortable with our ball handlers this year (JS, JP, PW).
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:51 AM
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I think Devin is the key guy. In the past he has been slow on rotations and not in the same position that kurt would be. He isn't as strong as kurt but if he is in the right postion with arms up he can be very effective. Josh is not strong enough to play center in the A10 and he doesn't want to anyway. That leaves Matt as the backup center. He is smart enough to be in the right position although he picked up about a foul a minute last year. Matt is not as long as kurt and good players will be able to shoot over him at times.

If teams play zone against us wan will be in the middle of their zone just about every time down the floor. I don't think there is anyone in the A10 who can keep him out of the paint playing man. Parker isn't as quick but he protects the ball well, goes to the hoop and is a very good shooter. We are going to stress defenses with our point guard play.

When the point guards break down the defense there should be good shots in the half court for CJ, CW, PW and company.

It is going to be fun to watch this team. There are lots of questions but talent wise there are lots of answers
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Because RL was a turnover machine (maybe he never fully recovered from his injury) and LW couldn't shoot. Would you really take RL and LW over JS and JP? I loved LW's defense and toughness, but he hurt us on offense. MJ didn't play well at all most of the season (until the NIT). We won't miss MP much. PW played and shot very well in the NIT. I see him being much improved this season. I'll take this season's guards over last season's guards every time. We will have better shooters and better creators, which should open up the middle for CW, more like it was the first half of 07-08. CJ will be a stud and JB should be much improved with a year under his belt. If Searcy and Kav can make up for the loss of KH on defense, we will be tough to deal with.
There are 2 points here, bullishness coming in to the season and also just wondering if we'll be better this year given last year.

Bullishness:
So coming in to this season some of you are saying you are more bullish about how we will finish games in 2010-2011 based on "whatever is behind Door #1" than you were going in to 2009-2010 where we had 2 returning senior point guards who had given us the best record in the country in close games the previous year?

If that's what you are saying, I would personally call that a triumph of faith over reality.

Outcome given last year's result:
Now as it turns out those seniors had a pathetic 2009-2010. Maybe what you're saying is that given how bad 2009-2010 was, we'll be better. Maybe we will actually be better, there are some fair points to be made here.

Just keep in mind that what you (and others) are saying is that you are just dying to have these 2 guys who have never played a minute under the pressure / dynamic of BG's coaching style in lieu of the outcome of the seniors we had in 2009.

I don't think RL is a total moron (just those 2 games), I happen to think that coaching played a large part in the poor performance. Our new guys might look good on paper but if RL and LW reacted poorly to the coaching in late game situations (my premise), then how will a true freshman and another new guy react? You would argue "much better than our seniors." I would argue "it's hard to project these underclassmen making a better outcome if the coaching is just as bad (my premise)."
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:41 PM
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Was there something about the coaching in late game situations that changed over the last 2 years? If that is the driving force behind some of the close losses last year, was it the driving force behind close wins the previous year?

That is what is so odd about the last two years. We went from being one of the best finishers of close games in 2007-2008 to one of the worst in 2008-2009. I bet that kind of dramatic swing has not happened too often in college basketball. If it is the coaching, what was different in those two years?
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:56 PM
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We made a couple of big defensive mistakes that cost us games last year and then the other teams hit a couple of somewhat lucky shots.

What would anyone draw up as the first option against a team playing zone or even man last season at the end of a game?

If the other team is dumb enough to leave CJ or Luke wide open then throw it to them. But, I am hard pressed to come up with a play where one guy could beat his guy off the dribble and score. Maybe you run a pick and roll with London and Luke, but why would Luke's guy leave Luke to cover London? Maybe you run a pick and roll with Rob and CW but last year CW's ball handling and catch and shoot skills weren't that great.

IF CJ and CW have improved their ball handling skills as advertised we could see some pick and rolls this year.

Does anyone have an offensive half court play that would be pretty much guaranteed to work last year?
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Was there something about the coaching in late game situations that changed over the last 2 years? If that is the driving force behind some of the close losses last year, was it the driving force behind close wins the previous year?

That is what is so odd about the last two years. We went from being one of the best finishers of close games in 2007-2008 to one of the worst in 2008-2009. I bet that kind of dramatic swing has not happened too often in college basketball. If it is the coaching, what was different in those two years?
Not trying to respond to every post. . . but I would answer your question that yes, BG had a crappy year, not reacting well to the pressure of expectations and trying to over-control game situations. Until the NIT.

If we have regular season BG, we'll be just as bad or worse. If we have 2008 / NIT BG, we'll have a decent chance at being better.

I'm just saying that if you isolate that to the players there's not much reason to think we'll be better. Quite the contrary. And yet there are reasons to think we might be better, such as BG realizing his mistakes and having better FT shooters at the end of games. There are fair points to be made.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:13 PM
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The reason that I can understand optimism from some fans on our improvement in crunch situations is that some believe, through watching Staten play locally, that we have a guy who can create for himself or others when a team plays us straight up defense and the pressure is on. He allegedly can pop a jumper or kill you off the dribble.

I have not even seen Staten play beyond some video clips, so I cannot say that I believe that yet.

But some people who post here have seen him play a lot, and firmly believe he is that type of player. So I'm accepting their optimism. I want to see how he and Parker look on the floor before I make my call/prediction.

I'm ok with everyone having their own criteria for predictions. It makes these message boards fun.

I enjoy pollyannaism too. Sometimes I hear people on various boards telling others to reel back their optimism because they are embarrassed by blind optimism from fellow fans, etc. They seem to think that they need to manage the attitude of other fans to keep in an acceptable range, because it reflects on them. Sometimes I enjoy listening to blind optimism. It plays on our human nature, and for some of us can be very entertaining. I come here, in part, for entertainment.

I really enjoy blind Flyer optimism when it is mixed with a little X smack. When you put the two together, it's like a message board Molatov cocktail. I like seeing someone chuck it into a thread and run, and I promise big-time reps to those who engage in such tomfoolery.

Last edited by Fudd; 09-28-2010 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UDBrian View Post
IF CJ and CW have improved their ball handling skills as advertised we could see some pick and rolls this year.

Does anyone have an offensive half court play that would be pretty much guaranteed to work last year?
In spite of never having not seen our PG's against D1 speed ...

Make use of Juwans footspeed, or create a mismatch for Juwan that he can abuse ... take his guy off the dribble and make a play moving to the bucket (dish or hit something in the lane). Paul or Luke stepping out on the wing as a relief valve on the strong side of the play. CJ and CW on clean up duty.
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Not trying to respond to every post. . . but I would answer your question that yes, BG had a crappy year, not reacting well to the pressure of expectations and trying to over-control game situations. Until the NIT.

If we have regular season BG, we'll be just as bad or worse. If we have 2008 / NIT BG, we'll have a decent chance at being better.

I'm just saying that if you isolate that to the players there's not much reason to think we'll be better. Quite the contrary. And yet there are reasons to think we might be better, such as BG realizing his mistakes and having better FT shooters at the end of games. There are fair points to be made.
I'm not sure how you can blame BG for RL making a terrible play at the end of the St Joe game, turning the ball over twice in the last 90 seconds against Duquesne, going 0/10 from three against New Mexico, going 3/17 at X, making the stupid play against X in the A-10 Tourney, PW missing the front end of two one-and-ones against St Louis, St Louis throwing in a 25 foot bank shot at the buzzer, etc. That is six games right there, and if we win any three of them we are dancing. I know some people are just generally down on BG, so for them there is no reason to even discuss the players. Apparently BG will screw up even good players. But I think JS and JP will be a major upgrade at the point guard spot, and that is one of the major reasons for my optimism considering how important the point guard is. They can shoot and create, and I think they will make all the other players better.

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Old 09-28-2010, 03:45 PM
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I agree, when has BG had a legit point guard during his time here;] NOT
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:40 PM
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The BG bashers have been very quiet, not by choice, but rather by the upbeat end of last season. Just wait until, or if, we lose a game we "could have won". then out of the woodwork they will come, blaming BG for everything from the common cold to the national debt. fortunately, while very loud, they are in the minority.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
The BG bashers have been very quiet, {not by choice},....
True, not by choice (for those who are objective enough). BG will pretty much determine what opinion is warranted.

I don't know of his seven years, but the two I saw left favorable overall impressions for post-season. WVU win huge. NIT win not so bad either.

About finishing games. BG's head was in his claven last year. I promise it will come out of there this year. And an offense to finish games LAST year..
Geeeeez, forget about it (yes Gazoo, improvement by virtue of just how bad it WAS).
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
If we have regular season BG, we'll be just as bad or worse. If we have 2008 / NIT BG, we'll have a decent chance at being better.
I personally think BG learned some important lessons from last years NIT run i.e. playing to your team's strengths, playing your best players longer minutes, and not playing conservatively down the stretch of ball games unless you have a big enough lead.

That said, players still need to be able to execute the coaches instructions, as well as recognize and adapt to what opposing defenses are doing. Thats where basketball IQ is important. I think thats where the improvement in this years team will be evident. On paper, Staten and Parker SHOULD be much better at breaking down opposing defenses and also shooting free throws than their predecessors were. I'm eager to see them play.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:04 PM
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i was pretty optimistic at start of last year. i am cautiously optimistic but believe upside to be much greater. too many weird things happened last year, and i can imagine our practices will be much more interesting at the 1-2-3 spots this year. more intense there , striving for playing time.

i think there's more positive challenges and pressure on guys from top to bottom to make this team better overall. And i think that fact , will help get our doubted defense (for this year) through , the intensity of BG's style and practices - that players get it more.

Can't have the lapses we had last year to compete with the upper tier teams. If we have some consistent lapses early on.... we're in trouble. HOwever, i think we'll get major kinks out in first 5 games, and Fly High this year.

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Old 09-28-2010, 11:05 PM
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I think our guard play will be great offensively and OK defensively. What I am worried about is how we are going to deal with the loss of Kurt H. - he was a force on defense and could muscle up without fouling. Kav was a foul a minute and Searcy tried to block shots after the man got by him. We shall see and I can't wait.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
The BG bashers have been very quiet, not by choice, but rather by the upbeat end of last season. Just wait until, or if, we lose a game we "could have won". then out of the woodwork they will come, blaming BG for everything from the common cold to the national debt. fortunately, while very loud, they are in the minority.
There's a difference between "BG his terrible, fire him and burn his house down" and "BG had a bad game, I'm disappointed." Or even a bad season. I recognize that bad decisions compound based on human nature / stubborness / relationships. I can be disappointed and still want him to be my head coach this year.

I think there is near universal agreement that UD should have made the NCAA tournament last year based on the talent we had on paper, and that a very good bit of that belongs on BG's head. Not all of it, but a lot of it.

I make mistakes in my job too, I just don't have 50,000 people watching between those live and on TV.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:02 AM
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MJ's nearly year long funk and the erratic play at PG were the main reason we didn't make the dance. So while the majority of fans may have thought we had the talent to dance, we showed throughout the year that we were lacking in some areas. Given that BG is responsible for everything, the ultimate responsibility is his, but disappointing play, for a big portion of the season also was a big factor. I don't think there were too many fans that couldn't wait for BG to take the MSU job. Whenever things go bad there are always the fans that, "tell it like it is", "knew it all along" and "was right", or " stating the facts". UD fans are no different, small group, big noise. We are fortunate to have BG, I hope he makes a career out of UD.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
MJ's nearly year long funk and the erratic play at PG were the main reason we didn't make the dance. So while the majority of fans may have thought we had the talent to dance, we showed throughout the year that we were lacking in some areas. Given that BG is responsible for everything, the ultimate responsibility is his, but disappointing play, for a big portion of the season also was a big factor. I don't think there were too many fans that couldn't wait for BG to take the MSU job. Whenever things go bad there are always the fans that, "tell it like it is", "knew it all along" and "was right", or " stating the facts". UD fans are no different, small group, big noise. We are fortunate to have BG, I hope he makes a career out of UD.
One good thing is. The point guard area has been address with Wan, Josh and Dillard
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:13 PM
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You are right A-10 we will be a different team on offense this year.
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I think there is near universal agreement that UD should have made the NCAA tournament last year based on the talent we had on paper, and that a very good bit of that belongs on BG's head. Not all of it, but a lot of it.
I disagree that there is "near universal agreement" that a "very good bit" or "a lot" of the blame for not making the NCAA rests with BG. I listed six games above in which failure to execute (and some bad luck) cost us the game. Unless you are saying that BG is responsible for MJ's season long funk, turnovers, bad decision making, and missed free throws, I think we failed to make the NCAA mainly because the players failed to execute in certain situations. I have stated before that BG's main failure has been his inability to land a top point guard (that has been corrected), but I don't think that is what you are referring to.
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Old 09-29-2010, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I disagree that there is "near universal agreement" that a "very good bit" or "a lot" of the blame for not making the NCAA rests with BG. I listed six games above in which failure to execute (and some bad luck) cost us the game. Unless you are saying that BG is responsible for MJ's season long funk, turnovers, bad decision making, and missed free throws, I think we failed to make the NCAA mainly because the players failed to execute in certain situations. I have stated before that BG's main failure has been his inability to land a top point guard (that has been corrected), but I don't think that is what you are referring to.
Hmmm. . . the same group not only made the dance the year before but won a game in the tournament. Either the NCAA got worse or we did.

I could go back and look at how many games RL blew at the end. . . or just wonder what it took for BG to get it through his head that LW belonged out there instead (as I kept screaming for). After RL established an undeniable pattern, LW finally started finishing games around NIT time. Imagine what could have been. I don't think RL checked himself into the game, did he? You blame that on bad luck, I would say we made our own luck.

NIT:
UNC: LW finishes the game
Ole Miss: LW finishes the game
Illinios: LW finishes the game
Cincinnati: LW finishes the game

I wonder who checked Chris Wright into the game with 2 fouls against _avier with 7:00 to go in the first half on the road, ultimately causing him to disappear for the rest of the game when he got his 3rd foul. He played 14 total minutes that game, and yet did not foul out. Bad luck again.

St. Louis, 3 seconds to go, 3 point lead and we. . . let him shoot instead of fouling. Bad luck again.

But of course, THAT was just a miracle right?? And yet it happened more than once in the same season. It's too painful to look. Wasn't it thrice?? Bad luck I guess.

Look, we could recap the entire year, but here's the deal: BG put the players on the floor that failed throughout the season. Then suddenly that pattern changed in the NIT and we were pretty darn good. I find it hard to blame the players for that.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Hmmm. . . the same group not only made the dance the year before but won a game in the tournament. Either the NCAA got worse or we did.

I could go back and look at how many games RL blew at the end. . . or just wonder what it took for BG to get it through his head that LW belonged out there instead (as I kept screaming for). After RL established an undeniable pattern, LW finally started finishing games around NIT time. Imagine what could have been. I don't think RL checked himself into the game, did he? You blame that on bad luck, I would say we made our own luck.

NIT:
UNC: LW finishes the game
Ole Miss: LW finishes the game
Illinios: LW finishes the game
Cincinnati: LW finishes the game

I wonder who checked Chris Wright into the game with 2 fouls against _avier with 7:00 to go in the first half on the road, ultimately causing him to disappear for the rest of the game when he got his 3rd foul. He played 14 total minutes that game, and yet did not foul out. Bad luck again.

St. Louis, 3 seconds to go, 3 point lead and we. . . let him shoot instead of fouling. Bad luck again.

But of course, THAT was just a miracle right?? And yet it happened more than once in the same season. It's too painful to look. Wasn't it thrice?? Bad luck I guess.

Look, we could recap the entire year, but here's the deal: BG put the players on the floor that failed throughout the season. Then suddenly that pattern changed in the NIT and we were pretty darn good. I find it hard to blame the players for that.
Must give you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that you had the answer all along, if only BG had listened to you his problems would have been over. We would have made the dance and advanced to the final four. If only he had listened.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Must give you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that you had the answer all along, if only BG had listened to you his problems would have been over. We would have made the dance and advanced to the final four. If only he had listened.
And we wave goodbye to reasonable discussion.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:24 PM
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I think the off-season is officially over on UDPride. I'm going to have some popcorn with Glen Clark.

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Old 09-29-2010, 11:35 PM
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Hey, don't stop now. I need something to read for the next three weeks or so.

Somebody asked for the pollyanna point of view... Ok - this is a better team than last year. The law of averages says the breaks are due to fall in our favor, just like two years ago. BG has learned an important lesson in the NIT, namely, go with the hot hand and let it roll. CW knows it's now or never for his draft hopes. Staten will be the best pg in UD history. CJ is a rising star.

The script is not written. Magic can (and at one time or another absolutely will) happen. Right now the 2010/11 Flyers are undefeated. Enjoy the possibilities. (Just don't bet the rent money on it.)

Maybe my Reds (or my Giants) will win the World Series. "Have a little faith, Moriarity." "Stop wishin for bad luck and knockin on wood."

Maybe the Flyers...

Ok - back to reality. Have at it.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:46 PM
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I have to disagree with several posters who claimed BG changed his coaching style for the NIT. To me, the biggest change was the play of MJ. I might point out that MJ played 33 minutes against UNC. Tournament MVP CJ played only 17 minutes against UNC. Having a healthy and productive MJ for the NIT made an enormous difference.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:59 PM
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I agree that BG did NOT change his coaching style. He was merely playing arrogant BCS coaches who didn't change their style or gameplan us much at all. And the reason we (finally) didn't see Rob at the end of most of the halves and the games was that the games were mostly not close. So the liability of London being in a game and being sent to the line became moot. This has been discussed to death, but when teams let us run last year, we played well. When teams slowed it down, got back on d, sagged and dared the likes of Rob and London to shoot, we struggled.

As for next year, i don't really know what to expect. I'm excited by the prospect of seeing a kid who was literally raised to be an all around point guard. We haven't had a kid like that in years, if not decades. We've had to make do for a very long time. Either being forced to use 2 guards to play point guard. Or playing guys who have huge offensive holes in their games.

Granted, with Juwan we have an untested freshman point guard coming in. But at least he's a REAL point guard. That alone will help in the decision making and the way people can defend us. It's been way too long since we had a guy who had true point guard instincts, and had the skills to go with them. Then, with Parker, we also add a legit, D-1 tested 3 point shooting threat to our roster. Something the combo of London and Rob just didn't provide.

But defensively, i'm expecting a big dropoff. Which will leave me saying "Wow, I've waited years for this" after a sweet pick and roll or drive and dish on the offensive end, followed by "Doesn't anybody know how to play defense" after an easy bucket or an easy put back after somebody didn't block out on the other end.

So I'm hoping that we can make it through the non-con without too many bad blemishes while BG gets our defense in shape heading into A10 play. And i'm also hoping that the offensive instincts of Staten and Parker are ready to go out of the box on day 1. That's my best case scenario. If we do that, we can make the dance. But i wouldn't be surprised if we don't. Our defense was great last year. And we lost 5 above average defenders.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:10 PM
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All in all, sounds like a lot of 85-80 games coming up instead of 65-60. Just as long as we are the 85 not the 80.

I'm ready. Pray for good health and good breaks. (Come on, Rita.)
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
And the reason we (finally) didn't see Rob at the end of most of the halves and the games was that the games were mostly not close. So the liability of London being in a game and being sent to the line became moot.
Really??

1. UNC: 72-66 with 1:13 to go, LW on the court. Think UNC couldn't score 6 points in 1:13??

2. Ole Miss: 64-63 with 0:25 to go, LW on the court (and was fouled -- better than RL taking an off balance 3 pointer because "he's a shooter"). There's simply no more clear evidence than this.

3. Illinios: 73-68 with 0:29 to go, LW on the court. At Illinois.

UC and Ill St. were not close at the end, but that's where it started.
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Old 10-01-2010, 03:30 PM
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Ole miss is truly the only exception. And even then, Lowry was in on offense until BG switched London in for D. The games and moments you've cherry picked are "Big Leads" compared to the single possession nailbiters that we had through most of the losses we had in the A10. With the exception of Ole Miss, none of them were single possession games down to the wire, and really barely even two possession games. We were never at risk of having teams foul LW in the closing seconds, having him miss two freethrows, and resulting in the other team having the final possession to win the game.

We were up by 9 with :47 seconds left against UNC.
We were up by 9 with :44 seconds left vs. Illinois.
We beat Illinois St. by 21 and UC by 15.

And while yes, the UNC and Illinois games got closer toward the end, they were not the single possession nailbiters that we saw in a lot of our ugly losses in the A10. SLU 2x, richmond, saint joes, xavier in the tourney, and URI. Those were close games.

In the A10--where teams know us very well, the likelihood of teams fouling london in the closing seconds of a tight game was extremely high. And wrong or right, BG didn't like playing london in those moments. Luckily for us, the NIT didn't offer us too many of those same situations. So I'm not convinced that BG learned much of anything in the NIT. He just wasn't in the scenarios that called on him to do what he would normally do. Which is, play lowry at the end of a tight game for fear of people fouling london.

The only thing i think that truly changed in the NIT were that the minutes for Perry and Benson went down considerably.

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Old 10-01-2010, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
Ole miss is truly the only exception. And even then, Lowry was in on offense until BG switched London in for D. The games and moments you've cherry picked are "Big Leads" compared to the single possession nailbiters that we had through most of the losses we had in the A10. With the exception of Ole Miss, none of them were single possession games down to the wire, and really barely even two possession games. We were never at risk of having teams foul LW in the closing seconds, having him miss two freethrows, and resulting in the other team having the final possession to win the game.

We were up by 9 with :47 seconds left against UNC.
We were up by 9 with :44 seconds left vs. Illinois.
We beat Illinois St. by 21 and UC by 15.

And while yes, the UNC and Illinois games got closer toward the end, they were not the single possession nailbiters that we saw in a lot of our ugly losses in the A10. SLU 2x, richmond, saint joes, xavier in the tourney, and URI. Those were close games.

In the A10--where teams know us very well, the likelihood of teams fouling london in the closing seconds of a tight game was extremely high. And wrong or right, BG didn't like playing london in those moments. Luckily for us, the NIT didn't offer us too many of those same situations. So I'm not convinced that BG learned much of anything in the NIT. He just wasn't in the scenarios that called on him to do what he would normally do. Which is, play lowry at the end of a tight game for fear of people fouling london.

The only thing i think that truly changed in the NIT were that the minutes for Perry and Benson went down considerably.
I wish I had the time to go look up when LW was subbed in and out in the rest of the season. My recollection is that with 70 seconds left he would not have been on the court in A10 games. BG was already playing not to lose, dribbling around in circles instead of having LW in there with the offense attacking the rim.

Maybe BG was counting on the fact that Roy Williams and the other coaches we faced were young and inexperienced, and had not looked at the stat sheets before the games.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I wish I had the time to go look up when LW was subbed in and out in the rest of the season. My recollection is that with 70 seconds left he would not have been on the court in A10 games. BG was already playing not to lose, dribbling around in circles instead of having LW in there with the offense attacking the rim.
Even if that is true, OP used to sit on leads and I don't remember him being heavily criticized for it. Of course he had better point guards during most of his time here. As I have said before, BG's main failure has been his inability to land a top point guard. He did what he thought he had to do with RL and LW considering the weaknesses of each. He was afraid of LW's free throw shooting and his inability to shoot, and if LW had played more in late game situations (assuming you are correct that he didn't), maybe we would have lost the games anyway because of teams fouling him and sagging off him and clogging up the middle. I still don't think (and it seems to be proven by the posts) that there is "near universal agreement" that a "very good bit" of the blame for not making the NCAA rests with BG.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Even if that is true, OP used to sit on leads and I don't remember him being heavily criticized for it. Of course he had better point guards during most of his time here. As I have said before, BG's main failure has been his inability to land a top point guard. He did what he thought he had to do with RL and LW considering the weaknesses of each. He was afraid of LW's free throw shooting and his inability to shoot, and if LW had played more in late game situations (assuming you are correct that he didn't), maybe we would have lost the games anyway because of teams fouling him and sagging off him and clogging up the middle. I still don't think (and it seems to be proven by the posts) that there is "near universal agreement" that a "very good bit" of the blame for not making the NCAA rests with BG.
OP won. If you do things that don't work and keep doing them, well, um, you'll probably get criticized for it. I don't think that's a leap to jump to that conclusion, is it?

I said "I think there is near universal agreement that UD should have made the NCAA tournament last year based on the talent we had on paper, and that a very good bit of that belongs on BG's head. Not all of it, but a lot of it." Let me make a slight edit since a few of you insist on ignoring the points no one has refuted. Delete the word in green.

Now, no one has refuted that:

1. BG changed from having RL in the game at the end to having LW in at the end. I've shown the opposite to be true. There's only 5 games in the NIT, what do you want, a sample size of n=500 to show he changed??

2. We kept attacking the rim in the NIT instead of dribbling around in circles. If you don't recall the season ending that way, I suggest you review the tapes and post game discussions. That was totally different from A-10 play to NIT.

3. BG didn't have a great year with the same talent that won an NCAA game the year before. Some potential injury to MJ surely had a little bit to do with that, as did RL's injury. But how about the emergence of PW? The improvement of CW? DW playing more effective minutes? JB starting to emerge? CJ becoming a serious force? None of that offset any of the injury? Enough to even place 6th in the A-10?!?!

You remember that, right, we finished SEVENTH in the A-10 last year. Was MJ's injury THAT devestating??
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:08 PM
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Hero one year bum the next

In 08-09 BG won almost all the close ones. In 09-10 things evened out. Same coach. Looks like one poster keeps detailed stats on things that in his view BG does wrong. Everyone in entitled to their viewpoint. However, in my view, the play of the team on the court was a much larger factor in negative results than the coach on the bench.
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:54 PM
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Back to the question of the original post. I have no doubt at all that the team will be better this year. The addition of Staten and Parker alone makes up for all of the losses. It's about all guard play and this team has had little of it over the years. There is no reason to believe that both of these guys are not ready to excel from day one.
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
In 08-09 BG won almost all the close ones. In 09-10 things evened out. Same coach. Looks like one poster keeps detailed stats on things that in his view BG does wrong. Everyone in entitled to their viewpoint. However, in my view, the play of the team on the court was a much larger factor in negative results than the coach on the bench.
I think in 08-09 that many would have admited a little luck in doing so well in all the close games. Everyone has a little bit of a different feeling about how much luck is involved. But if you are going to claim it's less about luck when we lose the close ones, you should be able to apply the same standard when we win the close ones, IMO.

To me, trying to explain why BG went 0-9 in games decided by 5 points or less last season is like trying to explain why a .390 batter in baseball went 0-15 in his last 15 at-bats. There might be something there that caused it, but then again, it could just be a normal cold spell that statistically will happen over many trials. I'm not going to say that guy is a poor hitter because of it. That is especially true if he just came off an 11-15 streak.

Hitting is something that can only be evaluated well over a very large sample size. If you look at BG's larger sample size of close game win/loss, his record is very good.

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Old 10-02-2010, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post

Now, no one has refuted that:

1. BG changed from having RL in the game at the end to having LW in at the end. I've shown the opposite to be true. There's only 5 games in the NIT, what do you want, a sample size of n=500 to show he changed??

2. We kept attacking the rim in the NIT instead of dribbling around in circles. If you don't recall the season ending that way, I suggest you review the tapes and post game discussions. That was totally different from A-10 play to NIT.

3. BG didn't have a great year with the same talent that won an NCAA game the year before. Some potential injury to MJ surely had a little bit to do with that, as did RL's injury. But how about the emergence of PW? The improvement of CW? DW playing more effective minutes? JB starting to emerge? CJ becoming a serious force? None of that offset any of the injury? Enough to even place 6th in the A-10?!?!

You remember that, right, we finished SEVENTH in the A-10 last year. Was MJ's injury THAT devestating??
I agree that BG has quite a bit of blame in our failure to make the NCAA's last year. But I would refute the first two assumptions you listed:

1. As pointed out above, it's hard to say that BG actually changed his end of game strategies because the ends of the NIT games were not nearly as close as the ends of the pivotal and damaging losses in the A10. Only Ole Miss was a single possession game in the NIT. Therefore there was very little risk in keeping London in the game at the tale end of those NIT games.

2. Yes, we attacked the rim in the NIT. But it was because our NIT opponents did nothing to actually stop the way we like to play. Nobody abandoned their offensive boards to get back on defense. Hardly anybody played zone for any large stretch of time. And almost nobody backed off of London Warren. And with the exception of Illinois State, almost everybody thought they could run with us. Failing to address those things against last year's dayton team is not only a recipe for disaster, but almost inexplicable. We looked great last year when team's let us run. And in the NIT, that's what teams (by and large) did. Hence, BG looks like he changed his gameplans and looks like a genius. I will say that in the NIT maybe BG learned his lesson about trying to milk the clock too soon. (Maybe that's what you meant by this point in the first place. Not sure.)

And i agree with you on your third point. There were enough positives that developed on last year's team that should have offset MJ's injury. One thing to remember though was Luke's injury. I think that hurt us more than people realize too.

BG's biggest failure in my mind was that he never figured out what to do against a Majerus-like gameplan with the personnel that he had. What do you do when teams get back on d and pack it in and force our less than stellar outside shooting guards to beat them? He never really had an answer for that style against the likes of SLU, St. Joes, Temple and even Richmond. Those were five pivotal games where the tempo and gameplan of the opposing coach really won out.

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Old 10-03-2010, 10:25 PM
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Every time our guards turned the ball over last season it seemed that it was at the most inopportune time. If we have a season where we take care of the ball and force the opponents guards to make the turnovers I think it will be a success.

I think we have the right mix of upper classmen and new players to be a much better half court team.
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Even if that is true, OP used to sit on leads and I don't remember him being heavily criticized for it.
I don't have a problem with sitting on a lead as long as you win the game. If I was BG, I would play pedal to the metal the whole game, regardless if I was up by 2 points or 30 points. If running on offense is BG's system, then that's fine, but by all means stick with it. Don't pick and choose when you are going to run. BG's teams definitely struggle in a slow down half court offense.

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Of course he had better point guards during most of his time here. As I have said before, BG's main failure has been his inability to land a top point guard.
So, essentially what you are saying then is that if Staten, Parker, and Dillard don't work out well for BG, then BG should be fired? I am cheering for BG, and I hope Staten and Parker work out this year. But, I think people are making a fairly big leap if they think Staten and Parker are definitely going to be great when they haven't even seen those two play a single game yet. Kenny Frease is X's all-time highest rated recruit ever, and Frease has not exactly set the world on fire. Sorry to be so negative, but I don't consider 2/7 making the NCAA tournament to be all that great, especially considering that Purnell left BG a mostly rebuilt program.

Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I still don't think (and it seems to be proven by the posts) that there is "near universal agreement" that a "very good bit" of the blame for not making the NCAA rests with BG.
I don't think it is entirely fair to use this board to measure fan sentiment, especially when you consider the fact that this board has not allowed any new user registrations for several months now. It is possible that there are disgruntled fans out there that would like to post on this board, but because new user registrations are being blocked, are not allowed to express their opinion.

And yes, if you care, I am still working on the Wright State/Gem City Jam data. I didn't get around to it yet.
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
DW playing more effective minutes?
Just curious, who is DW?
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:19 PM
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OP left BG a rebuilt program? Senior class thats it
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Old 10-05-2010, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And yes, if you care, I am still working on the Wright State/Gem City Jam data. I didn't get around to it yet.
Then I guess you didn't see my last post on that subject. Don't waste your time.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:05 PM
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I saw your last post on the subject, just because you don't want to discuss it anymore doesn't mean that I don't want to. There is a lot of evidence to demonstrate that UD has played several opponents on the road through the years that were worse than WSU. WSU has even finished higher than UD in the RPI in the past.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:37 PM
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When all is said and done ..

BG = BLAME GUY!

BTW .. I like BG's coaching style.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I saw your last post on the subject, just because you don't want to discuss it anymore doesn't mean that I don't want to. There is a lot of evidence to demonstrate that UD has played several opponents on the road through the years that were worse than WSU. WSU has even finished higher than UD in the RPI in the past.
I can understand a UD fan saying we should play WSU. I CANNOT understand a UD fan going on and on and on about it, saying UD is chicken, making a list of teams that UD played that are not as good as WSU (even though the list was inaccurate), doing RPI research to "prove" they should play WSU, etc. Are you a WSU fan or a Xavier fan?
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I can understand a UD fan saying we should play WSU. I CANNOT understand a UD fan going on and on and on about it, saying UD is chicken, making a list of teams that UD played that are not as good as WSU (even though the list was inaccurate), doing RPI research to "prove" they should play WSU, etc. Are you a WSU fan or a Xavier fan?
I don't think I went on and on and on about it. From my perspective, based upon the data that I've looked at, I do think UD is chicken. What's wrong with proving a point with data? That's much better than just an opinion.

As I've said before(I guess you didn't read my earlier posts, I really shouldn't be wasting my time talking to someone like you that doesn't read others posts), I'm a fan of both schools. And I don't see anything wrong with that. And guess what? I'm an Ohio State fan too. And that fact doesn't stop me from criticizing OSU for refusing to play UD, X, or UC. Monk Meineke is a fan of all the schools around here, so am I. There's nothing wrong with that, except to people like you that love UD and apparently hate everybody else.

I've come up with 10 recent examples so far were UD has played a team with a worse RPI on the road. It's a pain to look this stuff up, that's why I haven't finished yet. While I agree that RPI isn't everything, the majority of the examples I've found are from programs that I think are comparible to WSU. There are some examples I've found though that represent programs that are clearly better than WSU(for example: DePaul, George Mason, Louisville, and Old Dominion), and therefore UD playing those teams was good for UD in the sense that UD beat a "name" opponent, even though that opponent in that particular year had a poor record and RPI.

If you're done discussing the issue, then just ignore my reply. You don't have to read it, you don't have to respond, you should even put me on your ignore list. But, don't respond, and then say that you don't care, that makes no sense.

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Old 10-06-2010, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I don't have a problem with sitting on a lead as long as you win the game. If I was BG, I would play pedal to the metal the whole game, regardless if I was up by 2 points or 30 points. If running on offense is BG's system, then that's fine, but by all means stick with it. Don't pick and choose when you are going to run. BG's teams definitely struggle in a slow down half court offense.
This is a key when you have poor guard play. You have to be in the mindset to not play Tressel Ball and go ahead and put your foot on the necks of the opponents.

If you look back to why many UD games end up with edge of your seat anxiety in the last 4 minutes it is because of ball pressure, helter skelter full court traps and presses, and stupid turnovers. Our past guards got comfortable. Passes are pre-planned and scripted, players wouldn't adapt to ball pressure and movement, etc.

We can only hope that new faces at the guard position will change much of this. They have to have more poise and game control. Granted, I put many things on BG's shoulders in relation to personnel (quite simply because he got them here), but in the end, the guys have to execute fundamental basketball in the full court and half court offenses.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I have stated before that BG's main failure has been his inability to land a top point guard (that has been corrected), but I don't think that is what you are referring to.
Agreed. Hopefully we turned the corner with Juwan and Parker ... mainly with Juwan because he's potentially going to be here the longest.
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:03 AM
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Here is another little blurb from WH on the A10 board with some general thoughts on the Flyers going into this season:

I don’t know whether Staten is the answer right now at point or if Parker is the better short-term fix. I have seen Staten a handful of times and I think he’s ready to step right in and do the job. The Flyers have lots of vets. They don’t need Staten to be a star as a frosh.

The A-10 has seen more than a few point guards of Staten’s caliber succeed under similar circumstances. And it’s not like Warren was a stud. Staten is a better shooter and far more mature decision maker at the same age.

Whatever the case, I don’t think Dayton will be hurt at all by the changes at point guard. I expect the Flyers to do better than last season in conference play. The team has one definite star and another set to emerge, good size and depth, lots of athleticism. For all his defensive prowess and attacking pressure, Warren was still a persistant liability. And I really think the graduation of Huelsman opens the door for a more effective inside attack.

The Flyers have a good a chance as anyone in the league to win the A-10 title. Don’t discount the NIT success, either. Teams coming off that sort of success and returning most of their players tend to perform exceedingly well the following year. I fully expect the Flyers to be NCAA bound this season.
http://www.basketballforum.com/atlan...ictions-4.html
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
I agree that BG has quite a bit of blame in our failure to make the NCAA's last year. But I would refute the first two assumptions you listed:

1. As pointed out above, it's hard to say that BG actually changed his end of game strategies because the ends of the NIT games were not nearly as close as the ends of the pivotal and damaging losses in the A10. Only Ole Miss was a single possession game in the NIT. Therefore there was very little risk in keeping London in the game at the tale end of those NIT games.
UNC was a 2 possession game, as was Illinois and that was on their home court even. But you're proving my point -- if they make a steal and a shot it's a 1 possession game. Which shows there's a logical fallacy in your argument. The reason those NIT games did not become 1 possession games is precisely the reason we lost those other 1 possession games throughout the year. Which is, 1) we didn't try to sit on the lead by BG controlling all the action and 2) LW was in the game more at the end with the total offense attacking.

I think it's kind of hard to disprove my point that we played better with LW on the court attacking at the end than with RL on the court in set offenses. . . by pointing to games where we won (against much better competition) by keeping LW on the court attacking, thus avoiding closer games where BG might have called for more set offensive sets.

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
2. Yes, we attacked the rim in the NIT. But it was because our NIT opponents did nothing to actually stop the way we like to play. Nobody abandoned their offensive boards to get back on defense. Hardly anybody played zone for any large stretch of time. And almost nobody backed off of London Warren. And with the exception of Illinois State, almost everybody thought they could run with us. Failing to address those things against last year's dayton team is not only a recipe for disaster, but almost inexplicable. We looked great last year when team's let us run. And in the NIT, that's what teams (by and large) did. Hence, BG looks like he changed his gameplans and looks like a genius. I will say that in the NIT maybe BG learned his lesson about trying to milk the clock too soon. (Maybe that's what you meant by this point in the first place. Not sure.)
I somewhat grant you this, except for the following:
1. These were not coaches who just walked into an arena for the first time. One is a sure-fire hall of famer. They had game film, they knew what we did well and did not do well. What could explain this? Either they were independently foolish in back-to-back-to-back-to-back games or we did a better job of something.

2. There were many teams all year long where we looked good enough to win for the first part of the game, and then we started calling set plays near the end so BG could exert control. A few TO's later it was a close game where it did not need to be, and we lost (by poorly executing even MORE set plays). If we had just run full out in those other games and done what we do best, maybe it would have never even been close enough to worry about end game execution.

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
BG's biggest failure in my mind was that he never figured out what to do against a Majerus-like gameplan with the personnel that he had. What do you do when teams get back on d and pack it in and force our less than stellar outside shooting guards to beat them? He never really had an answer for that style against the likes of SLU, St. Joes, Temple and even Richmond. Those were five pivotal games where the tempo and gameplan of the opposing coach really won out.
I disagree completely. In the NIT I remember very clearly several instances where we had a ~5-7 point lead lead with less ~5 minutes in the game, and the first guy down the court shot the ball with less than 7 seconds expired from the shot clock. That, to me, is clearly the adjustment that was made in the NIT. Let them run 5 guys back on D, we're just flat out not going to play your game of set offenses and defenses. Because of that we shot the ball in rhythm, without hesitation, without CW having to spend too much time thinking about where he's supposed to be. That was the change, and it worked. In the regular season BG would have pulled that person off the court and not checked him into the game for another 10 minutes for shooting so quickly in that situation. It's admittedly poor basketball IQ, the rub is: it worked for us.

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Just curious, who is DW?
Arthur's little sister, of course. Don't you watch PBS?

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Old 10-07-2010, 04:53 PM
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Well i think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. Regarding the bigtime coaches, it happens almost everytime we play a BCS team. They arrogantly come in thinking they can top our athleticism, and the post game quotes are littered with evidence that they underestimated our athleticism. That we outhustled them, out ran them, out jumped them. That shows me a coach that did not prepare his team properly. Look at the quotes after the WVA game, or the Illinois game. It happens every time. So no i don't believe that the other teams actually gameplanned us much at all.

But your logic of saying that coaches in the NIT obviously must have planned for us goes the same in the A10. You can say that BG is fully responsible for the way our offense slowed down and tried to kill clock in the A10 games, but don't forget there's another coach out there too. Could it be that the opponents did something differently in the closing minutes of games that they weren't doing earlier on? I'd say yes.

Now the bottom line is that i agree with you that BG's stubbornness and inability to learn from mistakes contributed to our losses. I'm just saying that the NIT games are not enough evidence to convince me that he learned a whole heck of a lot. And I agree that when London was allowed to attack the rim we did well. You get no argument from me on that. But that decision wasn't solely BG's to make. Opposing coaches have a say in limiting what London can do. In the NIT, none of the coaches really tried to limit him the way that smarter coaches in the A10 know very well to do.

When an opposing coach in the A10 decides to pack in the zone or layoff of london warren in the closing minutes of a tight game, BG believed London became twice the liability on offense. First, london can't hit an outside shot. Secondly, he's an easy target to foul because he's a horrible freethrow shooter. Hence, Lowry was in for a lot of those tighter closing moments where the other team was down, or it was close, and they were laying off of london or daring us to shoot. I'm not saying i agreed with that decision by BG, i'm just saying that i think that's what his thinking was. It was clear to many that Rob shot us out of many games, and made bad decisions in many others. Including many end-of-half situations. He had a rough senior year and i was frustrated that BG counted on him as much as he did.

In the NIT, NOBODY laid off of london at any time. And i believe the games weren't as close near the end in large part for that reason.

And if we were shooting within 7 seconds of the shot clock, it was because we were beating at least a few of their players down the court. We weren't shooting 7 seconds in against a packed zone defense. And if we were, i would call it more the luck of making the shots than actually rotating the ball against the zone and getting a good shot(which is what you should do if you're facing a zone and having people lay off you). The simple fact is that barely anyone played zone for more than one or two possessions at a time against us, and nobody backed off london in a man to man scheme. When teams play london honest and let us run and do what we do, we look very good. That's what I believe happened in the NIT.

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Old 10-07-2010, 09:18 PM
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I just realized I forgot to say "shot a 3 pointer with less than 7 seconds off the clock". I mean to say, we were flat jacking the ball up in my mind. Maybe we remember that differently. Around my office, the 4 of us who follow the Flyers closely all came into the office the next day saying the same thing--it was a race to see who could say it first. Maybe the 4 of us just watched the game through a different lens.

But, it's fair to say that the NIT teams did not play us exactly the same way as the A10. The A10 could not hang with our athleticism so they had to go with a gimmick. It worked. I would just argue that if BG had stopped trying to make a bunch of race horses pull a plow, we would have blown the doors off those teams and it would have never come down to the final possession. Maybe not.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:36 PM
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Spot on

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 View Post
Regarding the bigtime coaches, it happens almost everytime we play a BCS team. They arrogantly come in thinking they can top our athleticism, and the post game quotes are littered with evidence that they underestimated our athleticism. That we outhustled them, out ran them, out jumped them. That shows me a coach that did not prepare his team properly. Look at the quotes after the WVA game, or the Illinois game. It happens every time. So no i don't believe that the other teams actually gameplanned us much at all.
.
We've been over this before in many threads. The arrogance and stubborness of Huggins and Weber was very evident. They got punked and still wouldn't change. If we played them home-n-home last year, the second game would have looked entirely different--maybe we win, maybe we don't. None of the NIT teams thought we could run against THEM like we did the others. Fools.

The other factor was the senior's realization that this was their last dance. Their "second season". And they were going to leave it all on the floor.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:15 PM
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.....and we were connecting consistantly from 3pt range in the NIT. That changes an opposing coaches thinking quickly.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:20 AM
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Interesting discussion for sure. I can see merit in both sides, assuming there are just two. I say that this very discussion, BG's seemingly different game plan in the regular season vs. the NIT's, will take up a lot of Pride space as we get into the upcoming season. The answer(s) will come from this year's team performance rather than examples from last year's play.

Was BG stubborn? Did he learn a lesson and change his approach for the NIT's? Did A-10 coaches know us better and therefore game plan to expose our weaknesses?

I say that BG knew that both LW and RL had hideous warts all over their otherwise attractive selves and therefore felt the need to take control over the action from the bench. The flaws in their game never allowed BG to be confident in their ability to "run the floor." At times the result was BG trying to hold a lead so RL didn't throw the game away or forcing LW into offensive sets resulting in 5 on 4 play - with the only mask for this wart being the Flyers ability to hit an open jumper, something they didn't do consistently.

Fast forward to this season and now we have true guards who while somewhat inexperienced, should provide BG with the tools and confidence to press the ball on offensive from the opening tap to the final horn. And if it turns out to be the case that better guard play results in a different BG on offense, then perhaps we'll have some answers as to BG's in-game coaching abilities and more insights as to how and why he coached last year's team the way he did.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:09 AM
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I'm not so sure what worked for us in the NIT will work for this years team. 3 of 5 starters will be new. There is a good chance that this team could have a very different personality and different strengths and weaknesses.

The now "en vogue" idea that we want to keep the peddle to the metal for the whole game could change. Playing Tressel ball in the final minutes could possibly be a good strategy this year. Just saying that the formula could change again based on new personel. I'm going into this season with an open mind about those possibilities.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Playing Tressel ball in the final minutes could possibly be a good strategy this year. .
Dear BG
Please please please do not listen to Fudd and play Tressel ball in the final minutes. It is just too painful too watch how conservative this could be. Lets keep the pedal on the metal and win pulling away.

Sincerly,

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Old 10-08-2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Dear BG
Please please please do not listen to Fudd and play Tressel ball in the final minutes. It is just too painful too watch how conservative this could be. Lets keep the pedal on the metal and win pulling away.

Sincerly,

ClaytonFlyerFan
It shouldn't be painful to watch with a point guard who can shoot and score, make free throws, penetrate and score, or penetrate, draw the defense to him, and then dish to CW for the slam!
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Dear BG
Please please please do not listen to Fudd and play Tressel ball in the final minutes. It is just too painful too watch how conservative this could be. Lets keep the pedal on the metal and win pulling away.

Sincerly,

ClaytonFlyerFan
Haha. I know where you are coming from after last season, but I'm open to the possibility that Staten and Parker might be able to ice a game by playing keep away and hitting free throws. I'm just saying that it is possible.

Going wide open with 90 seconds and a ten point lead with the type of pg's I described above might not be a good strategy.

My thinking is that is was not a strategy that worked for us last year mostly because of the qualities of out pg's. Things could change with the personel. That is all I'm saying.

Tressel ball works best when Tressel has great special teams and defense.

A well rounded team ought to be able to play some Tressel ball when the situation is right. I felt like the pedal to the metal strategy was necessary for us last year because we were not well rounded at the pg position. With all new faces at that position, things might change.

Another thing that changes a little bit is that I think we are a slightly worse transition team when you take away Marcus Johnson and replace him with Paul Williams. But I think we might end up a better half-court team with that swap. I'm just saying our strengths and weaknesses might be shifting considerably this year, causing a strategic shift.

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Old 10-08-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
It shouldn't be painful to watch with a point guard who can shoot and score, make free throws, penetrate and score, or penetrate, draw the defense to him, and then dish to CW for the slam!
I agree with what your saying, but we have yet to see either point gaurd in action in this situation. Lets not set the bar too high (yet)
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post

Tressel ball works best when Tressel has great special teams and defense.

A well rounded team ought to be able to play some Tressel ball when the situation is right. I felt like the pedal to the metal strategy was necessary for us last year because we were not well rounded at the pg position.
Well Tressel has a serious issue with his special teams this year, but that is for another forum.

I figured you out Fudd. I think you work for Dayton Heart Hospital, and your wanting business, thus the request for Tressel ball, LOL
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
.....and we were connecting consistantly from 3pt range in the NIT. That changes an opposing coaches thinking quickly.
I think one could make a strong argument that making those shots changed the way our offense looked. That assumes a little luck, maybe a little bit of getting healthy, maybe a little bit of mental attitude about the season almost being over. I get that.

But, I think one could make an equally strong argument that taking the shots quickly and in rhythm without thinking, and without fear of repercussion (= serious bench time) is what made them go in at a higher rate. I think reasonable posters like you get that as well.

You and I will never know, no matter how much we banter back and forth. Heck we'd probably never know even if the Warren Commission interviewed everyone in the program. They probably don't know.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I think one could make a strong argument that making those shots changed the way our offense looked. That assumes a little luck, maybe a little bit of getting healthy, maybe a little bit of mental attitude about the season almost being over. I get that.

But, I think one could make an equally strong argument that taking the shots quickly and in rhythm without thinking, and without fear of repercussion (= serious bench time) is what made them go in at a higher rate. I think reasonable posters like you get that as well.

You and I will never know, no matter how much we banter back and forth. Heck we'd probably never know even if the Warren Commission interviewed everyone in the program. They probably don't know.
Yes, I get your point. I was sitting in front of the TV during most of the NIT run and asking myself the same questions about the opposing coaching strategy in most of those games. I thought Ole Miss played us with the best strategy. But a few minutes into each game, it seemed like we were hitting enough of the 3's to make the other coach look like a fool if he went with a packed-in zone on us. It put most of those coaches between a rock and a hard place.
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