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  #801  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:16 PM
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We know session yet?
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  #802  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:19 PM
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This is last year all over again
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  #803  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
Not really. The committee did not put much weight on the conference tourney results as a whole. Maybe we got as high as a 6.
Agreed. It's a "shocker" that we remained as high as a 7 though after two losses to end the season.
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  #804  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Can't get cocky. We saw how that played out at GW and against Davidson.
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Not cocky, just not buying the "shock" at Wichita State's seeding. They are seeded about right. Ken Pom is interesting but his numbers get screwy sometimes. Time to see how Wichita State performs against some real competition. They have zero wins over any team in the tournament.
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  #805  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:20 PM
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Should be a tough ticket in Indy with Dayton, Kentucky and Wichita St., all teams that travel very well and two that are very close.

Edit: Forgot about Louisville too.

Last edited by CT Flyer; 03-12-2017 at 07:23 PM..
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  #806  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
As pointed out on another thread, Wichita State is ranked 8th by KenPom, but is a 10 seed in a four region tournament? They got hosed and so did we. The silver lining here is that the game is in Indianapolis, so the Flyers should be well-supported. But come on.
Parrish and Barkley said pretty much the same thing. They focused on the Shockers being underseeded as a 10, but they said it wasn't fair to the teams that have to play them. Of course, we're the first (and, hopefully, only) team on that list.
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  #807  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Not cocky, just not buying the "shock" at Wichita State's seeding. They are seeded about right. Ken Pom is interesting but his numbers get screwy sometimes. Time to see how Wichita State performs against some real competition. They have zero wins over any team in the tournament.
How do you feel about Jeff Sagarin? He has them rated 11th nationwide.
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  #808  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TrueTeam View Post
We know session yet?
They've announced times for First Four already. How early are the times usually announced?
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  #809  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:26 PM
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According to KenPom and Sagarin WSU should be favored by 7. February Flyers can beat them. March Flyers will lose by double digits. Archie which team are you bringing to Indy?
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  #810  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Parrish and Barkley said pretty much the same thing. They focused on the Shockers being underseeded as a 10, but they said it wasn't fair to the teams that have to play them. Of course, we're the first (and, hopefully, only) team on that list.
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When the committee screws with seeding like this (and I do believe it's intentional), it has a significant ripple effect. They've got to do better.
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  #811  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
How do you feel about Jeff Sagarin? He has them rated 11th nationwide.

I take the math geek stuff with a grain of salt. Wichita State is 3-4 against the Top 100. Dayton is 4-3 against the Top 50 and 12-4 against the Top 100.

Does it mean that Dayton will beat Wich State? No. But the seeding is pretty much correct.
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  #812  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
They've announced times for First Four already. How early are the times usually announced?
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Gametimes announced at 7 eastern is what I saw.
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  #813  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
I take the math geek stuff with a grain of salt. Wichita State is 3-4 against the Top 100. Dayton is 4-3 against the Top 50 and 12-4 against the Top 100.

Does it mean that Dayton will beat Wich State? No. But the seeding is pretty much correct.
No, you just prefer a less rigorous form of math geekiness as after making that statement you proceed to list your own numbers.
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  #814  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
When the committee screws with seeding like this (and I do believe it's intentional), it has a significant ripple effect. They've got to do better.
I think that gets overlooked by too many. Similar to when UD got slotted into the First Four. Many thought that was ridiculous for Dayton, but how about Boise State? Like you said, the ripple effect can be significant.
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  #815  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
How do you feel about Jeff Sagarin? He has them rated 11th nationwide.
I think WSU is a very good team, but don't even mathematical formulas have trouble predicting when there is no real true data to input into the formula? They have not played anybody of substance (no disrespect to Ill. St.) in almost three months. How can even mathematical formulas predict with a lack of quality data?
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  #816  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:36 PM
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Interesting what commentators said about Illinois State, which could apply to Wichita State. Something to the effect that Missouri Valley Conference teams need to have a stronger OOC schedule to impress the selection committee.
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  #817  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:37 PM
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  #818  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:38 PM
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I don't think we complain about this at all. Wichita St waas flawed all season and the committee did not find a reason to knock us down because of those 2 losses. In this case the committee did what we all would hope they would do and that's look at the entire resume. Let's get them and then kentucky! Woohoo!!!
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  #819  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ClevelandFlyer05 View Post
No, you just prefer a less rigorous form of math geekiness as after making that statement you proceed to list your own numbers.

Ok, fair point. How about this math-free comparison:

Dayton has 6 wins over teams in the NCAA Tournament and Wichita State has zero.

Perhaps Wich State should have accepted Dayton's offer to schedule in the regular season. LOL
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  #820  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:43 PM
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Let's just beat them and end any speculation! Also, for anyone who wanted us to play WSU, you get your wish (by initials at least)
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  #821  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:55 PM
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I bet Ed Cooley is really looking forward to playing in Dayton. Siiigggghhhhh!!!!!!
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  #822  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:55 PM
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We can debate some seeds probably but I think we have to give the committee credit this year that they got the selections right!
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
I bet Ed Cooley is really looking forward to playing in Dayton. Siiigggghhhhh!!!!!!
Was thinking the same thing, it will not be a warm welcome for him I assume.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:00 PM
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Analysis from SBNation:

5:59 — Ohhhhhhh dear. Wichita State gets a stunning No. 10 seed, setting up the potential for “We Shouldn’t Have to be Doing This” round two with Kentucky in the second round. The Shockers felt like they got screwed by having to play the Wildcats in the second round when they were a No. 1 in 2014, now the roles have been reversed.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:03 PM
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Who can more credibly play the disrespect card?

Wichita State, who feels should've been way higher than a 10 seed and certainly not playing Kentucky in round 2?

Or Dayton, since everyone is already taking about the Wichita-UK matchup in round 2 AND Wichita refuses to schedule us in the non-con?

I'm going Flyers.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Analysis from SBNation:

5:59 — Ohhhhhhh dear. Wichita State gets a stunning No. 10 seed, setting up the potential for “We Shouldn’t Have to be Doing This” round two with Kentucky in the second round. The Shockers felt like they got screwed by having to play the Wildcats in the second round when they were a No. 1 in 2014, now the roles have been reversed.

So they already have Wich St moving to the second round. Nice. Good bulletin board material!
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:08 PM
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If you look closely at Dick Vitale's mouth, you can see both Jim Boeheim's and the ACC commissioner's hands there.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:10 PM
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Talking Not particularly USC Fans

Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Was thinking the same thing, it will not be a warm welcome for him I assume.
Not that most of us are big USC Fans, but I think Cooley will have earned his not so nice welcome. Plus another chance to root against the little eastern conference.
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  #829  
Old 03-12-2017, 08:22 PM
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Game times??? Did they get released at 7?
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RamodWaleskowski View Post
Game times??? Did they get released at 7?
Apparently not. Anxiously awaiting...
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:37 PM
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What a shock, Jim Boeheim is on TV whining again. I'm really going to miss this when he retires.

NOT!
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:43 PM
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Calipari was very complimentary to the Flyers and especially about Archie saying he's the hottest young coach out there and wouldn't be outcoached by anyone. The seeding sucks. A Dayton/Kentucky matchup pits my 2 favorite teams against each other early. UD comes first in my heart and was at their win over the Cats in Cinci.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:52 PM
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Not that it's surprising, but Boeheim's comments and some of the panel's earlier comments reinforce the general outlook the power conferences and a lot of the media have about the power conferences: they want to focus solely on "who you beat" and dismiss any soft loss which runs counter to their narrative. No doubt Syracuse, for example, has some nice wins...but you can't simply dismiss losses to 14-win St. Johns, 14-win Georgetown, and 9-win Boston College as if they didn't happen.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by momszer View Post
Calipari was very complimentary to the Flyers and especially about Archie saying he's the hottest young coach out there and wouldn't be outcoached by anyone. The seeding sucks. A Dayton/Kentucky matchup pits my 2 favorite teams against each other early. UD comes first in my heart and was at their win over the Cats in Cinci.

Archie is related to Calipari, correct? I believe Archie's dad is Calipari's cousin or something like that.
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:49 PM
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On ESPN the selection committee chair just said Wichita State probably generated the most discussion: very high metrics v. beating only one team in the tournament.
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:59 PM
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FlyGuy Pete Gillen says Dayton beats The Shockers. Is he related as well?
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
On ESPN the selection committee chair just said Wichita State probably generated the most discussion: very high metrics v. beating only one team in the tournament.

Oh, they do have a win over a tournament team? Which one?
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
Not that it's surprising, but Boeheim's comments and some of the panel's earlier comments reinforce the general outlook the power conferences and a lot of the media have about the power conferences: they want to focus solely on "who you beat" and dismiss any soft loss which runs counter to their narrative. No doubt Syracuse, for example, has some nice wins...but you can't simply dismiss losses to 14-win St. Johns, 14-win Georgetown, and 9-win Boston College as if they didn't happen.
They didn't win any non-con games outside of the Carrier Dome. St. John's and Georgetown losses were at home. Also lost to UConn on a neutral site. Only ACC road game W's were Clemson & NC State. Evidently, not impressive.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
Not that it's surprising, but Boeheim's comments and some of the panel's earlier comments reinforce the general outlook the power conferences and a lot of the media have about the power conferences: they want to focus solely on "who you beat" and dismiss any soft loss which runs counter to their narrative. No doubt Syracuse, for example, has some nice wins...but you can't simply dismiss losses to 14-win St. Johns, 14-win Georgetown, and 9-win Boston College as if they didn't happen.
Focusing on who you beat is fine, but it has to be normalized relative to the number of opportunities a team has to play good teams. If not, smaller conferences will be lucky to get anyone into thrvtourney other than the auto bid. Syracuse does not belong in the tournament, and watching Dicky V, Bilas and Boheim whining on ESPN is just precious.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Oh, they do have a win over a tournament team? Which one?

Ok, I finally figured it out: South Dakota State (18-16, RPI 155).
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
Not that it's surprising, but Boeheim's comments and some of the panel's earlier comments reinforce the general outlook the power conferences and a lot of the media have about the power conferences: they want to focus solely on "who you beat" and dismiss any soft loss which runs counter to their narrative. No doubt Syracuse, for example, has some nice wins...but you can't simply dismiss losses to 14-win St. Johns, 14-win Georgetown, and 9-win Boston College as if they didn't happen.

In a beautiful twist of fate, Syracuse will face UNC Greensboro in NIT

Karma!
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  #842  
Old 03-13-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
ESPN has a sports betting podcast called "Behind the Bets" hosted by Chad Millman. One of his regular college basketball guests is named Alan Boston. He talks about this every year: matching up the non power teams in first round match-ups, under-seeding non power teams, etc. Check out his Twitter feed right now (https://twitter.com/bostonred88). He's not impressed.
I am bumping this because if you have not checked it out, you are missing out on one of us,
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I am bumping this because if you have not checked it out, you are missing out on one of us,
Reading that blog is as bad as Blackburn Review. Excuse me while I go gargle with bleach.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:12 PM
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I just read through the entire WSU Selection Sunday thread. Their biggest beef seems to be the disrespect but I can see why the committee had a hard time with them. The teams are picked based upon resumes and a few of their posters are correct in that their resume is lacking in quality wins. They are like us in that they have a lot riding on the early season tourney. This year they did not perform well. Like many teams, they had a change over of personnel and it took some time to gel. We had an issue with injuries. The reality is that many teams change from bad to good and good to bad over the season. What should the committee do? I think they try to pick the teams with the best resumes over the whole season. However, is this the best approach for seeding? Should the predictive models be used for this purpose? The thing is even the predictive models are not accurate for teams that have had injuries during the season. I think it would take a lot better minds to seed they teams correctly. Maybe they should consult Las Vegas.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I just read through the entire WSU Selection Sunday thread. Their biggest beef seems to be the disrespect but I can see why the committee had a hard time with them. The teams are picked based upon resumes and a few of their posters are correct in that their resume is lacking in quality wins. They are like us in that they have a lot riding on the early season tourney. This year they did not perform well. Like many teams, they had a change over of personnel and it took some time to gel. We had an issue with injuries. The reality is that many teams change from bad to good and good to bad over the season. What should the committee do? I think they try to pick the teams with the best resumes over the whole season. However, is this the best approach for seeding? Should the predictive models be used for this purpose? The thing is even the predictive models are not accurate for teams that have had injuries during the season. I think it would take a lot better minds to seed they teams correctly. Maybe they should consult Las Vegas.
I really think the "how'd you play in the last 10 games" should be back as an indicator. This gives teams who have had injuries early/mid year a chance to prove themselves and it certainly shows the momentum gained during crunch time late in the year...
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:42 PM
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I don't know where else to post this and I don't know if the message board code lets you embed a tweet, so I'm linking to this tweet from Illinois State's coach:

https://twitter.com/DanMuller/status/841273731880218624
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Reading that blog is as bad as Blackburn Review. Excuse me while I go gargle with bleach.
I love Blackburn Review!

Easy way for mid-majors to get more quality home and home games OOC is to play each other, thereby having a material shot at not only more bids, but also improving their seeds.

Think about the following teams each guaranteeing 4 games versus each other in OOC, 2 home & 2 away.

Dayton, VCU, Rhody, Uconn, SMU, Cincy, St. Mary's, BYU, Gonzaga, Illinois State, Wichita State, and New Mexico (12 schools as examples, but basically schools who have consistently top 50 RPIs who get to the NCAA at least 1 or 2 times every 5 years).

Playing this format will increase bids and seeds.

Stop trying to beg P5 schools for home and home series. Would be great if Dayton for 2017-2018 was @St. Mary's & @Illinois State as well as having Cincy and Wichita State home.

Problem is a lot of the non P5 complainers about bids and seeds are not as sophisticated as Neil/Archie and the VCU AD/Wade on thinking through scheduling and fancy themselves as P5 schools so they would not consider this type of arrangement.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:01 PM
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I don't know about throwing Illinois State in there. They have had a 100+ RPI more often than not over the past several years.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I just read through the entire WSU Selection Sunday thread. Their biggest beef seems to be the disrespect but I can see why the committee had a hard time with them. The teams are picked based upon resumes and a few of their posters are correct in that their resume is lacking in quality wins. They are like us in that they have a lot riding on the early season tourney. This year they did not perform well. Like many teams, they had a change over of personnel and it took some time to gel. We had an issue with injuries. The reality is that many teams change from bad to good and good to bad over the season. What should the committee do? I think they try to pick the teams with the best resumes over the whole season. However, is this the best approach for seeding? Should the predictive models be used for this purpose? The thing is even the predictive models are not accurate for teams that have had injuries during the season. I think it would take a lot better minds to seed they teams correctly. Maybe they should consult Las Vegas.
Not sure why they take the time to seed 1-68 only to rip it up for geography and to avoid conference rivals playing each other. Seems like a waste of time.

It's like if you were interviewing 68 candidates when opening a new office and you painstakingly ranked them only to then completely add new criteria based on who lives closest to the office or something
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:22 PM
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Lightbulb to Jay Bilas and others

@JayBilas : if @Cuse_MBB had stones to play at @DaytonMBB in December, they may be playing at @UDArena for @NCAAFirstFour in March.

Feel free to share.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
@JayBilas : if @Cuse_MBB had stones to play at @DaytonMBB in December, they may be playing at @UDArena for @NCAAFirstFour in March.

Feel free to share.
I may have to start following Jay again. I stopped a couple of years ago when he wouldn't get off on paying the players.
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