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View Poll Results: Did Landers commit an Over-and-Back violaiton?
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H*ll yeah! He went from frontcourt to backcourt before establishing backcourt possession
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3 |
14.29% |
H*ll no brother! Landers and UD never had possession in the frontcourt...no violation!
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18 |
85.71% |
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07-03-2017, 09:13 AM
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You Make the Call: Over-and-Back
In a continuation of last week's YMtC, UD and tOSU are headed to overtime in their Sweet 16 game. Tied 82-82, UD's 6'8" Xeryius Williams lines up for the jump ball against tOSU's 6'9" Micah Potter. Expecting Xeryius to easily win this jumpball, UD coach Anthony Grant positions John Crosby, Trey Landers and Darrell Davis on the UD side of midcourt and just-in-case, puts Sam Miller deep on the defensive side.
Lead official Joey DeMayo's toss to start the Overtime is poor...and darn near straight over Potter's head so Xeryius has to reach far over the centercourt line to tip the ball...as expected he clearly outjumps Potter, controls the tip, directed toward Landers, but on the OSU side of the court.
Because Landers was positioned a good 3 steps into the Dayton frontcourt, he has to hustle toward the ball in order to gain possession he has to jump just in front of the midcourt line and while in midair he grabs the ball just before OSU's Kam Williams can get it, turns his body and lands in the backcourt on both feet and is facing the UD basket.
As he passes the ball to Crosby on the left wing, official Edwin Young is heard blowing his whistle quickly and repetitively while signaling that Landers violated the over-and-back rule....tOSU ball! Unsure whether it's appropriate to 'boooooooooooooooooo' the once great UD point guard, the Flyer Faithful stand silently, raise their arms, shrug their shoulders and - dumbfounded - sit back down, confused on how to behave. Meanwhile, Anthony Grant lays into Young who ignores the tirade and simply passes the ball to young ref Chad Barlow who hesitates before allowing tOSU to inbound the ball...just long enough to make DeMayo think...and call for a official's huddle to discuss frontcourt and backcourt positioning, where Landers was when he caught the ball and the 1-10 Hot-ness scale for the OSU cheerleaders.
You're part of the crew...make the call and tell me why!
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Last edited by rollo; 07-03-2017 at 09:29 AM..
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07-03-2017, 09:42 AM
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I just don't believe that there is any violation since the possession is not established until the ball is controlled by a player. Unless the ball is tipped out of bounds.
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07-03-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2
I just don't believe that there is any violation since the possession is not established until the ball is controlled by a player. Unless the ball is tipped out of bounds.
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FWIW, 'possession' is one way of looking at O&B...but so is 'control'.
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07-03-2017, 10:30 AM
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You have to establish your body and the ball in the frontcourt before there can be a backcourt violation. Never happened, so it never happened. UD ball, the Blanket is chastened, and the cheerleader is deemed a solid 7.5 (and a UD 10, and a Xavier 11).
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07-03-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
You have to establish your body and the ball in the frontcourt before there can be a backcourt violation. Never happened, so it never happened. UD ball, the Blanket is chastened, and the cheerleader is deemed a solid 7.5 (and a UD 10, and a Xavier 11).
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Huh?
If I'm in the backcourt and pass the ball over midcourt to Gazoo - who is checking out the cheerleaders - and the ball hits him in the back of the head and bounces back to me, still in the backcourt...it's over and back.
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07-03-2017, 03:51 PM
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I believe while this is normally a violation, a jump ball situation is an exception.
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07-03-2017, 04:01 PM
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Possession in the front-court is established by having both feet and the ball in the front court, sounds like he did, so back-court violation.
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07-03-2017, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Huh?
If I'm in the backcourt and pass the ball over midcourt to Gazoo - who is checking out the cheerleaders - and the ball hits him in the back of the head and bounces back to me, still in the backcourt...it's over and back.
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Yes, because I was established in the frontcourt.
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07-03-2017, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
Yes, because I was established in the frontcourt.
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What about the ball? Does instantaneous contact with you establish anything? It's a complicated rule and one that is blown more often than most of you would understand.
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07-03-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
What about the ball? Does instantaneous contact with you establish anything? It's a complicated rule and one that is blown more often than most of you would understand.
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What if the midcourt line is on top of the international date line?
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07-03-2017, 05:01 PM
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In this case, I don't believe that contact with the ball initiates possession, unlike say a ball hitting a player just before going out of bounds. Since no team has possession at the jump ball, possession would seem to need to be established once a player gains control of the ball. Having said that though, I now question my vote of UD ball. If time was running out, would Landers have been able to call a TO while in the air? If so, then possession would seemingly be established at the point of contact/control, even in the air. In that case, it may end up being tOSU ball. In either case, the cheerleaders win.
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07-03-2017, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Huh?
If I'm in the backcourt and pass the ball over midcourt to Gazoo - who is checking out the cheerleaders - and the ball hits him in the back of the head and bounces back to me, still in the backcourt...it's over and back.
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I used an improper term when I said control, which has a specific meaning. I should have said contact. When your pass to Gazoo, who was established in the frontcourt, bounced off his dome, that contact established the ball in the frontcourt. You then committed a backcourt violation by touching the ball in the backcourt before a defender could intervene.
On a throw in, an offensive player that leaves his feet can not be guilty of a backcourt violation, regardless of where he takes off and/or lands and/or touches the ball. I'm interpreting the rule the same way for a jump ball. No violation, UD ball.
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07-03-2017, 11:10 PM
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The "3 points" of possesion were never established in the front court so no over and back.
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07-06-2017, 10:23 AM
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Rule 9.9.3
Here's the Royally short and sweet explanation: There are 2 situations in basketball where the over-and-back violation is exempt...throw-ins and jumpballs. Of course, once the throw-in and jump ball ends, O&B can be called, but in this case Landers had not landed so the jumpball wasn't over.
So Edwin screwed up...should have been no whistle.
Therefore, (b) is the correct guess. I blame the OSU cheerleaders.
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07-06-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Here's the Royally short and sweet explanation: There are 2 situations in basketball where the over-and-back violation is exempt...throw-ins and jumpballs. Of course, once the throw-in and jump ball ends, O&B can be called, but in this case Landers had not landed so the jumpball wasn't over.
So Edwin screwed up...should have been no whistle.
Therefore, (b) is the correct guess. I blame the OSU cheerleaders.
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What about the other scenarios / fact / fake news patterns on the thread, such as when I got hit in the back of the head with the ball?
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