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  #1  
Old 11-29-2017, 09:53 PM
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Half-court offense

Does anyone know the name of the offensive set Grant and the boys are running this year? If I didn't know any better, I'd say they literally didn't have a plan in place. No apparent set plays. No basic pick and roll or give and go quick 2-man moves. No shot-following. I mean, 3rd grade fundamentals are missing. I kind of remember similar thoughts from AG's tenure at Bama, which worries me.

I won't discuss the lack of enthusiasm or emotion as the refs laid it to us in the second half for a spell...
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:11 PM
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Agree The offense is ........ well to say the least Offensive!

Seems Chuck is a team member .... as in lets Chuck it up and see if the ball goes in!
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:15 PM
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What half court offense??
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:24 PM
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DD is the only one that played any significant minutes last year tonight.

That's a HUGE part of tonight, and this year.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:28 PM
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The struggles are more than just inexperience. This is concerning.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:38 PM
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I had to pause the game for about 30 minutes so had to watch delayed so couldn't post in the second half on the game thread but there were three things that I wanted to ask or comment on:
1. Why not more Jordan Davis in the second half?
2. I know it wasn't known as Havoc yet but wasn't AG sort of the one who started that philosophy at VCU? Why doesn't this steam try to play with more tempo and aggressiveness?
3. One thing I hate about the way refs call the end of games is when a team is trying to foul thye don't call it ancd force the players to lay hard fouls to get the call. NCAA and refs complain that everything is too physical in the college game yet they make kids hack instead of calling the obvious attempt to foul.

Would like to hear comments on this.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:47 PM
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We do not have the players to play havoc defense. Tonight we did not match up with Auburn to play up tempo.

I'll add one to your list. When in the world will the NCAA change the stupid kick rule. You play great D, including kicking the ball, and the offense gets rewarded with 20 seconds on the shot clock.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
We do not have the players to play havoc defense. .
Yes. But I could not understand when we were down by about 11 we stood and let auburn dribble to run clock with 3:30 left in game. Seems like we would have started trapping. Doing something to push them a bit. It was like we weren't even trying.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:57 PM
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I haven't seen a worse played game since...I don't know when.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
We do not have the players to play havoc defense. Tonight we did not match up with Auburn to play up tempo.

I'll add one to your list. When in the world will the NCAA change the stupid kick rule. You play great D, including kicking the ball, and the offense gets rewarded with 20 seconds on the shot clock.
I agree on that kick rule. You play 25 seconds of great defense and an offensive player can throw the ball off the feet of the defender and secure 20 more seconds.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Why not more Jordan Davis in the second half?
He seems to get beat on the ball D once in a while, but not anymore than the other freshman. Plus.......he can MAKE SHOTS. He even makes them in a quick catch and shoot mode.

Good Lord, please get this kid some court time. 5 shots is not enough.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:16 PM
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Half court offense? UD ran one?

If you would like to see one there is a great half court offense being played by the team wearing white on ESPN.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2017, 11:22 PM
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Havoc and the up tempo game was a Shaka creation at VCU

For AGs talk of playing up tempo, his offense was Gregoryesque at his prior stops
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:24 PM
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I attended the games in Charleston and seen all on TV. The man to man half court offense is basically a 1-4 offense with the taller players setting picks for the forwards or guard. The point guard is basically a release valve to reset or go to the other side. The middle of the court is left open. The problem with this is that too often are bigs are outside the three point line on many shots. Getting the ball in low, doesn't seem to be a priority. Notice that Cunningham and Kostas often have the ball 20 feet from basket. Our half court offense against a zone is simply to move the ball around and shoot a three. Notice all the guys moving into the middle but the ball never goes there.

With really good players, you don't worry about the offensive design. So far the better teams we play are quicker, stronger and more experienced. You can't coach or train quickness.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
We do not have the players to play havoc defense. Tonight we did not match up with Auburn to play up tempo.

I'll add one to your list. When in the world will the NCAA change the stupid kick rule. You play great D, including kicking the ball, and the offense gets rewarded with 20 seconds on the shot clock.
Ok maybe I can see that some of our players are not there yet for an up tempo style but did we look good in the half court? I always lived by the notion that if you have trouble creating offense in your offensive sets then try to create some with your defense. Even last year's team (and the year before to some extent) was much better when defense created offense although Archie didn't always seem to think that.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Half court offense? UD ran one?

If you would like to see one there is a great half court offense being played by the team wearing white on ESPN.
I TOLD you all in a previous post to merely SUPPORT this team. It will be a LONG season. Let AG get HIS recruits in (the player from Cleveland is a great start).
The future looks bright, the present not so much. Take care about posting the usual "we suck" comments...stick to basketball commentary, whether good or bad, but basketball analysis, not just throwing out crap comments.
This team will get better, they will try, they just are that talented.
After the 4 seniors left last year, do you think AM was going to stay?
My angst is way down this year than over the past 4. Little expectations lowers my liquor bill!
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
I TOLD you all in a previous post to merely SUPPORT this team. It will be a LONG season. Let AG get HIS recruits in (the player from Cleveland is a great start).
The future looks bright, the present not so much. Take care about posting the usual "we suck" comments...stick to basketball commentary, whether good or bad, but basketball analysis, not just throwing out crap comments.
This team will get better, they will try, they just are that talented.
After the 4 seniors left last year, do you think AM was going to stay?
My angst is way down this year than over the past 4. Little expectations lowers my liquor bill!
I'll support the players, but I'm not going to give the scheme/coaching a pass and neither should anybody else.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:50 PM
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If sensitive priders/players/coaches don't want their skirts to flip in the wind then wear pants
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:07 AM
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We are not a good 3 point shooting team. Don't know why AG lets them shoot so many without yanking them or calling timeouts.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:11 AM
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UD actually set some good ball screens early on...that I have been screaming for all season...then it went to hell in a hand basket.

This team doesn't have the players to effectively run this offense against decent competition.

Worst part about the offense...wasn't the man to man offense...it was the absolute inability to attack a 1-3-1 zone and play basic basketball....

The chuck it 3 ball offense against a 1-3-1 is a no go with this team. Turnovers killed them. Auburn threw some pressure on them and UD had unforced errors...that hammered them. They made some runs due to defensive pressure, but even when they cut it to single digits, it wasn't even that close.

I know those that disagree with me are going to state this has to do with inexperience and AG needing his players...sorry charlie...I know it is early, but the talent it will take to run this offense is going to be hard to come by. The lack of fundamental design with the offense worries many people...it doesn't give these guys the best opportunity to succeed. Will it in the future? Maybe.

Not upset about the loss as there will be many more this season. But this is more than youth or talent...
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
We are not a good 3 point shooting team. Don't know why AG lets them shoot so many without yanking them or calling timeouts.
That's the system...seems as though Crosby is the only guy who has paid the price for decision making/results.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
If sensitive priders/players/coaches don't want their skirts to flip in the wind then wear pants
I AM NOT sensitive and I don't wear a skirt. IT"S A DOWN YEAR, A DOWN YEAR! Accept that fact.
A DOWN YEAR. It is what it is, face reality. Two years from now, we will be in the Top 25 and I hope I live long enough to see that.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:23 AM
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Meanwhile in Bloomington, Donnie...
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Meanwhile in Bloomington, Donnie...
He left UD. Got WAY WAY more money.Good for him and his family. Did a great job here. What in God's name is your point?
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:31 AM
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No, you're not sensitive..
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
He left UD. Got WAY WAY more money.Good for him and his family. Did a great job here. What in God's name is your point?
His point is that an undermanned team is giving #1 Duke everything they can handle and running some really nice offense with players moving and passing the ball.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
I AM NOT sensitive and I don't wear a skirt. IT"S A DOWN YEAR, A DOWN YEAR! Accept that fact.
A DOWN YEAR. It is what it is, face reality. Two years from now, we will be in the Top 25 and I hope I live long enough to see that.
In order to take the butthurt out of this thread and take it back to basketball...

What do you see promising about the man to man offense and the zone offense? I am being serious. Take more talented players and place them into the system. What do you see as a positive? What action in the motion offense do you see that gives you an indication of future success.

It is easy to sit back and talk about being down, as they are. But even being down, it is hard to see much positive about the offensive philosophy. I don't care if it is the starting 5 from last year, these guys, or your local scrub team...the motion offense isn't effective and the zone offense is non-existent. It doesn't matter who is running it...it has been ugly all thus far even in the wins.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
The struggles are more than just inexperience. This is concerning.
Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I know those that disagree with me are going to state this has to do with inexperience and AG needing his players...sorry charlie...I know it is early, but the talent Will it in the future? Maybe.

Not upset about the loss as there will be many more this season. But this is more than youth or talent...
The problem is not inexperience, the problem is the scheme/system. I have very serious doubts that things are going to improve significantly in the future. All of the faith in AG on this board is predicated on the hope that we will improve, what if we do not ever significantly improve?

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Old 11-30-2017, 12:38 AM
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It's almost like there's a nearly decade long track record on this
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
In order to take the butthurt out of this thread and take it back to basketball...

What do you see promising about the man to man offense and the zone offense? I am being serious. Take more talented players and place them into the system. What do you see as a positive? What action in the motion offense do you see that gives you an indication of future success.

It is easy to sit back and talk about being down, as they are. But even being down, it is hard to see much positive about the offensive philosophy. I don't care if it is the starting 5 from last year, these guys, or your local scrub team...the motion offense isn't effective and the zone offense is non-existent. It doesn't matter who is running it...it has been ugly all thus far even in the wins.
Simply because the TALENT is lacking. Give AG a chance, 2-3 years of his recruits. I have nothing more..tired of dumb arguments
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Meanwhile in Bloomington, Donnie...
I don’t believe Archie left UD for the money. When was the last time UD had the #1 team in the nation play on our home court? When was the last time UD played the #1 team in the nation?

Tough competitors want to win it all. Might be difficult at IU, but a lot more achievable than at UD

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Old 11-30-2017, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Donniex3Era View Post
Simply because the TALENT is lacking. Give AG a chance, 2-3 years of his recruits. I have nothing more..tired of dumb arguments
I will give him every chance he deserves. This isn't about AG. This is about the offensive system that we have watched now against man and zone.

Don't deflect the original question. I asked what you see in the system.

If you think questioning the offensive system you have watched for the last 5 games is a "dumb argument" then I question your evaluation of the actual offensive sets you are watching. We are here to evaluate what we are actually seeing beyond "talent". The results you see on the floor this season wont just be based on the talent on the floor. You can win with less and you can also lose with more.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Tough competitors want to win it all. Might be difficult at IU...
I don't think it will be difficult at IU, I fully expect to see Archie challenging for national championships at IU in the coming years.

Matta did it at OSU, so will Archie.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
I don’t believe Archie left UD for the money. When was the last time UD had the #1 team in the nation play on our home court? When was the last time UD played the #1 team in the nation?

Tough competitors want to win it all. Might be difficult at IU, but a lot achievable than at UD
Without looking I'll guess the matchup was part of a B1G/ACC deal. Never will that happen with the A10. So yeah. I was referring to their half-court offense against the #1 team. I happen to think he left for the fame/money. And more power to him..
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:11 AM
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Weaknesses. As well as Grantís teams defend, they often have just as much trouble putting the ball in the basket ó there is significant concern about what his team will produce from its halfcourt offense.

http://rushthecourt.net/2014/11/04/s...-crimson-tide/
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:04 AM
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Archie's offense in last 3 years at Dayton averaged kenpom rating of 91.3 (75, 146, 53). AG averaged offense kenpom rating of 110.7 (53, 128, 151).


Reason I used last 3 years is mostly AM's and AG's players and everyone has bought into their scheme at that time.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Archie's offense in last 3 years at Dayton averaged kenpom rating of 91.3 (75, 146, 53). AG averaged offense kenpom rating of 110.7 (53, 128, 151).


Reason I used last 3 years is mostly AM's and AG's players and everyone has bought into their scheme at that time.
What about the defensive ratings and overall ratings? Do you have those numbers?

AG's offensive numbers seemed to regress.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:50 AM
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Got home and watched the game again. Also watched second half of Akron. The offense is a good one with a lot of back cuts, pick and roll and the spacing leaves the middles open. So second half Sat. 3s are hitting and we execute at least 4 passes for easy layups off ball screens. So that's Akron, last nite go watch the first half. 5....5 wide open 3s from moving the ball around and we miss all 5. Josh got the ball in the paint several times and turned it over 7 times. Go check the last time a big man had 7 turnovers. So a bad start against a athletic team and 36% shooting at home not good. Also look at the stats for Josh and Kostas...that's all you need to see.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Go check the last time a big man had 7 turnovers.
Depends on the definition of "big man". Since 00-01 season, no "center" (Huelsman/Searcy/Finn/Adedaji/etc...) has had 7 or more turnovers. If you want to include 3/4 position, Chris Wright had 2 games of 7 turnovers in Dec of 2009 and again in December of 2010.

The remaining players are all guards (Cooke, Dillard, Roberts, Warren and Williams).
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:26 AM
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Auburn Played a lot of Zone

and UD had no answer. The confusion on the Flyer sideline was obvious for all to see.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:40 AM
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The Bigs...Josh/Kostas/Svoboda had a bad nite. There stats line are really poor. Kostas had zero rebounds in 21 min. Svoboda missed 2 wide open 3s and didn't contribute. You have to be able to get some points from the post against the zone, when the ball got dumped in we turned it over...missed the layup or got the shot blocked. Josh scores 12 and Kostas 6 or 7 and Svoboda hits just one three and its a close game. The guards other than John had a pretty good nite. John was unable to execute the offense against the zone and we had to count on a freshman to play 34 min with no help up front.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I know those that disagree with me are going to state this has to do with inexperience and AG needing his players...sorry charlie...I know it is early, but the talent it will take to run this offense is going to be hard to come by. The lack of fundamental design with the offense worries many people...it doesn't give these guys the best opportunity to succeed. Will it in the future? Maybe.

Not upset about the loss as there will be many more this season. But this is more than youth or talent...
I think anyone who looked at AG's past history had some concerns about the offense. His most successful years at VCU included conference POY guard Eric Maynor. If your system requires POY to be successful you better be an ELITE recruiter. Ant may be that recruiter.

I also think his offense has a lot of nuance and feel that will take time to be effective. Ideally, AG fills the pipeline with talented and high IQ players and then reaps the benefits of these players gaining experience until they end up with JR/SR led teams that can run it effectively. That would be the best-case scenario. With the right personnel and experience this could be a devastating offense. He's going to need a cadre of play-making wings that can all dribble, pass and shoot.

The counter-argument is that his system is well beyond the scope of most collegiate basketball players and assembling a roster capable of running it effectively is next to impossible. We'll have to wait and see.

You beat teams by getting more shots/FTA or being more efficient with roughly the same amount. Right now that are not doing anything to consistently generate more opportunities than the other team (rebounding, FTA, TOs) and are not especially efficient shooting the ball.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:53 AM
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I watched the entire Duke/IU game. Great game, but I digress. I was almost crying during the game watching Archie's team, totally outmanned, go toe to toe with Duke for 37 minutes. After only a half dozen games Archie had his guys buying into and executing a game plan and running an offense that produced layups and good shots against a very big, tall, defense. How many time have we seen that? Did not see the final stats, but IU was outscoring Duke on points in the paint for most of the game with only one good big guy, who sat a bunch due to fouls. When they did not get the ball inside, they spread the floor and passed for good shots.

Okay, so I really did cry a nostalgic cry.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:05 AM
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Duke has 4 freshman playing there first real road game, For IU it was the super bowl and they played poorly and out of control when the game was on the line. Our offense the last 3 games of last season was awful despite having 4 seniors on the court. Archie left Grant John Crosby to run the point. Grant got a team shorthanded to hold Auburn to 73 when they were scoring 94 a game. Grant will get the players and take us to the Next level. I was surprised how poorly Archie handled the end of game last nite on his home court.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:45 AM
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I don't consider myself a basketball or X's and O's expert, but I do have an opinion based on two life long observations:

1) when shots go in, a team looks good; when shots don't go in a team looks bad.

2) when shots go in teams win and coaches are considered great, when shots don't go in teams lose and coaches are bums.

To each his (or her) own, I choose to chill and watch this team grow up over the next couple of years.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:49 AM
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Four McDonald's All-Americans no doubt. And no it wasn't their SB. Miller's teams bow to no one. Held them? The defense fell apart in crunch-time. But you're right that he left us JC..
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:16 AM
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A motion offense requires two things to really hum at the college level.

The most important one is an intelligent point guard who can distribute and set up ball movement while being an offensive threat as well when needed. Crosby can score sometimes, but I severely doubt in his ability to set up ball movement on the offensive end and read the defense.

The other thing you really need is a forward who can distribute or score from the post, be it the high post or the low post. It seems like Josh and Kostas aren't trusted to handle the ball in the post (possibly justifiably so, which is a concern) and honestly, XW is rarely in the post, he plays like a wing. Even if it's a simple dish to the low post to a scoring threat that can either win the 1 on 1 matchup or draw in the wing defender to pass it back out for an open 3 without creating a turnover.

Without those 2 things, relying on a motion offense for points without a lot of set plays and/or PnR is going to be a dicey proposition. Crutcher is showing some promise at being the first thing, but he is still an under sized freshman adjusting to a monumental leap in level of competition. Crosby has been around 2+ years and while he plays a little more under control than he used to, it's getting late for him to blossom into the player the offense needs him to be. As for the forwards, that's a big question mark. Our bigs play way too much outside of the paint and even outside of the 3 point line. We need a trusted ball handler to work the post, and Kostas can maybe become that. Maybe Trey Landers as well as while he doesn't necessarily have the height, he at least has the bulk to bang down low a bit if needed.

If this is the offense we are going to run, then it's going to be a very up and down year with this personnel. If we end up with more wins than loses, it's going to be a solid year, which is what I have expected all along.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
The Bigs...Josh/Kostas/Svoboda had a bad nite..
Even when in the game they have to be fed the ball. That's the point.

You beat zones by attacking gaps, passing, and hitting the bigs on flashes and the dead spots. That doesn't happen and no one even attempted to execute that.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
His point is that an undermanned team is giving #1 Duke everything they can handle and running some really nice offense with players moving and passing the ball.
Didn't Grant beat Duke in the NCAA tournament while he was at VCU? I wonder how Grant did that being that he doesn't know how to coach offense?
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Even when in the game they have to be fed the ball. That's the point.

You beat zones by attacking gaps, passing, and hitting the bigs on flashes and the dead spots. That doesn't happen and no one even attempted to execute that.
100% agreement. 1 of 2 things are happening. Either the PG's aren't adept at feeding the post or CAG doesn't trust the bigs to handle the ball under pressure and has told them to not pass it inside unless it's for a quick open shot.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:43 AM
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Millers team bowed to a really bad Indiana State team at home and did not compete. so they are getting better. Archie is a good coach, I love his intensity etc and what he did for us. I do question if is he able to play different styles and adapt to change.an example is this years Dike team with Coach K at 70 playing a match up Zone because he says his freshman cant guard man to man as yet. I don't think Archie has that in him and he will be like his brother very good... not great.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:47 AM
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My $.02. Grant seems to be a bright guy that isn't consumed by ego and has embraced the UD and college and pro coaching community. I think he will be flexible and will will employ whatever scheme necessary to be successful here. He is limited in numbers and experienced talent right now. WE need to give him and the players some time.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Didn't Grant beat Duke in the NCAA tournament while he was at VCU? I wonder how Grant did that being that he doesn't know how to coach offense?
That is what I am really wondering too. What in the world happened between when he left VCU and arrived at Alabama. His results at those 2 schools are significantly different.

He was on top of the world at VCU. Everybody wanted him. What happened at Alabama? What changed?

Alabama:

Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank

2014-2015 17-14 0.5436 85 0.5544 55 nit
2013-2014 12-19 0.5192 124 0.5898 7
2012-2013 20-12 0.5655 60 0.5469 76 nit
2011-2012 21-11 0.5883 36 0.5679 30 ncaat
2010-2011 21-11 0.5545 80 0.5217 114 nit
2009-2010 17-15 0.5379 102 0.5575 46

Average rpi: 81

VCU:

2008-2009 24-9 0.5783 50 0.5194 118 ncaat
2007-2008 24-7 0.5708 54 0.4990 161 nit
2006-2007 27-6 0.5844 44 0.5095 126 ncaat

Average rpi: 49
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Duke has 4 freshman playing there first real road game, For IU it was the super bowl and they played poorly and out of control when the game was on the line. Our offense the last 3 games of last season was awful despite having 4 seniors on the court. Archie left Grant John Crosby to run the point. Grant got a team shorthanded to hold Auburn to 73 when they were scoring 94 a game. Grant will get the players and take us to the Next level. I was surprised how poorly Archie handled the end of game last nite on his home court.
Indiana also got manhandled on their home court by Indiana St., and a pretty bad South Florida team hung with them for 35 minutes of that game. I wouldn't be so quick to give Miller the Coach of the Year award quite yet (not directed at you, but those who are praising him).

It took Miller late into his 3rd season before he really started getting this program rolling. Many on here were ready to move on and questioning his coaching, including myself. He also left very little here to build upon, so it may just take that long again before we start seeing results.

This board is going to get ugly by the end of the season, which is unfortunate. After just what, six games, and some are acting as if he doesn't have a clue on coaching offense? I may not be as "knowledgeable" on the game itself as some here claim they are, but I'm going to stick with the confidence I have that Coach Grant knows what he's doing.

And for those who want to round up random articles and forum entries from when AG was at Alabama, maybe we should also start looking at threads from here just months from the Elite 8 run.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
He was on top of the world at VCU. Everybody wanted him. What happened at Alabama? What changed?
You make it like it's so cut and dry. Unless you're Duke, NC, or a cheater, recruiting at an ACC team can be a real challenge. Maybe he wasn't able to recruit at the level that he needed to. Alabama basketball isn't exactly known for having long sustained success. There are so many factors than can come into play. You can't make the assumption that a coach sucks though because he doesn't carry the same level of success he had at one program into a completely different one.

I know you're not an AG fan, as you've been critical of the hiring from day one and you haven't stopped, but we have to give the guy a real chance.

And if everyone wanted Grant while he was at VCU, then why did he settle for Alabama?
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That is what I am really wondering too. What in the world happened between when he left VCU and arrived at Alabama. His results at those 2 schools are significantly different.

2008-2009 24-9 0.5783 50 0.5194 118 ncaat
2007-2008 24-7 0.5708 54 0.4990 161 nit
2006-2007 27-6 0.5844 44 0.5095 126 ncaat
At VCU he had Eric Maynor (2005-2009)
2006: Hits game-winner to beat Duke in NCAA
2007-08: Colonial POY
2008-09: Becomes VCU all-time leader in scoring, assists, FTM
Drafted 20th in 2009

At Alabama, Grant consistently recruited 1st and 2nd team all-Conf players. It seemed like they were always just on the cusp of breaking out. Maybe some of the built-in advantages Dayton offers can make a difference.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
This board is going to get ugly by the end of the season, which is unfortunate. After just what, six games, and some are acting as if he doesn't have a clue on coaching offense? I may not be as "knowledgeable" on the game itself as some here claim they are, but I'm going to stick with the confidence I have that Coach Grant knows what he's doing.
He was fired from Alabama after 6 seasons and his inability to coach offense was a major complaint during his tenure. This isn't about six games, but should be eye-opening to anyone who dismissed those complaints from his tenure at Alabama.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:59 PM
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UD Pride

is a message board devoted to discussion of Dayton Flyer athletics. As fans we are all experienced at watching the teams perform. We support and cheer for positive accomplishments and criticize negative results. It is never a good thing to personalize the criticism. If we fans criticize the results it does not mean that we do not support Coach Grant.
After all fans have no authority to hire or fire a coach. It is above our pay grade as fans. Also, performance varies from game to game. Most sports teams have a performance rythem that is similar to an EKG. An up game (good) followed by and down (bad) game. Never take the enjoyment of this site away by suggesting that an honest critique of the team means the fan
does not support the coach or team. We all have credentials as Dayton Flyer Fanatics.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
The Bigs...Josh/Kostas/Svoboda had a bad nite. There stats line are really poor. Kostas had zero rebounds in 21 min. Svoboda missed 2 wide open 3s and didn't contribute. You have to be able to get some points from the post against the zone, when the ball got dumped in we turned it over...missed the layup or got the shot blocked. Josh scores 12 and Kostas 6 or 7 and Svoboda hits just one three and its a close game. The guards other than John had a pretty good nite. John was unable to execute the offense against the zone and we had to count on a freshman to play 34 min with no help up front.
Yep. Kostas got 2 fouls in 28 seconds and he played tentative the rest of the night. Changed everything. Cunningham looked like he would have rather been at Flanigan's getting drunk than playing last night. Missing out on the entire starting lineup from a year ago as well as another BIG suspended and having Crosby left as the PG who all of a sudden is suppose to be a good PG is asking way too much especially 2 weeks into the year.

Missing tons of wide-open 3's is no different than having WR's dropping half a dozen balls in a game. Kills drives just like missing wide-open 3's that can have huge swings. Down 5-6 pooits and miss 2 wide open 3's and your opponent comes down and hits one and it's now a 8-9 point deficit.

This simply puts a dagger into both a young team and a team that is very very inexperienced playing together. I have absolutely complete faith in AG.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
After all fans have no authority to hire or fire a coach. It is above our pay grade as fans.
Tennessee fans beg to differ with this statement. If I don't like a coaching hire in the future I plan to start a twitter revolt like they did.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
I don't consider myself a basketball or X's and O's expert, but I do have an opinion based on two life long observations:

1) when shots go in, a team looks good; when shots don't go in a team looks bad.

2) when shots go in teams win and coaches are considered great, when shots don't go in teams lose and coaches are bums.
And layups and dunks are a much higher percentage shot than a 3 pointer. If you are on the court, give yourself the best chance at a positive possession...
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Missing tons of wide-open 3's is no different than having WR's dropping half a dozen balls in a game.
And when that happens you start utilizing screen routes and dumping over the middle to your TE...

Gotta get the ball in the paint.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:00 PM
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Take a look at the game again. We missed several shots around the basket. Watch second half vs Akron...good 3 point shooting and very good passing and feeds for layups...that same offense then played a better team and our players where not up to it. Not the system..its the performers.He will get better players and hopefully healthy ones and we will get better. Reminder, Archies ball movement came to a halt in the last 3 games of the season last year. Need good players.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:03 PM
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they have had 6 games. Only 3 guys have played together at all (Davis, Landers, Williams). Going to take time.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
they have had 6 games. Only 3 guys have played together at all (Davis, Landers, Williams). Going to take time.
It will take time...this time in 2019 will be a good indicator of where they are at. In the meantime, they need to focus on basic, well-rounded, basketball.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:25 PM
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Recruiting "star" players and running minimally designed offenses works decently well in the NBA, if you have true top-tier talent. Not just one, but a couple of them. The same can sometimes be said in AAU ball.

In D1 college hoops, unless you are a top-tier program (Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc) where you are able to attract McDonald's All-American level players, you darn sure better have several offensive schemes to run. And, you better play with some fundamentals like what I mentoned in the opening post.

We are the University of Dayton. Virtually all of our players over the last several decades have been some level of 2-3 star recruit. Adding in a 4-star next year doesn't negate the fact that we had better run some offensive sets in the half-court. Especially since it will almost definitely take him 1-2 years to fully adjust to D1 ball. I certainly hope AG gets us better talent. But, let's not get carried away and think we're going to win solely based on superior talent.

You can run a crisp, organized, fundamentally sound offense with sub-stellar players and be competitive. As a fan, you can also see open shots going up, but maybe not falling. We've been taking some really ugly shots. Forcing shots, shooting off-balance, chucking up NBA depth threes with over 10-seconds left on the shot clock, driving right into 2-4 guys, and having one guy grab a board right under the hoop surrounded by opponent bigs and not kicking it out for a wide open look.

An offensive set creates open looks. Most teams defend very well. You have to deliberately shake someone to get open, or be crafty enough to blow past them. Talent will take care of the latter. For the former, you need X's and O's coaching and team coordination. This unorganized perimeter-passing stuff with very, very little break-away, isolation or inside-out playmaking isn't going to get us very far, especially when we run into the peppy, hard-nosed A10 defenses that are going to flash zones at us the entire back half of the season.

I hope they figure something out. Last night's stat lines are hideous, and the actual flow of the game wasn't any better from - at least from my seats.

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  #67  
Old 11-30-2017, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Yep. Kostas got 2 fouls in 28 seconds and he played tentative the rest of the night. Changed everything. Cunningham looked like he would have rather been at Flanigan's getting drunk than playing last night. Missing out on the entire starting lineup from a year ago as well as another BIG suspended and having Crosby left as the PG who all of a sudden is suppose to be a good PG is asking way too much especially 2 weeks into the year.

Missing tons of wide-open 3's is no different than having WR's dropping half a dozen balls in a game. Kills drives just like missing wide-open 3's that can have huge swings. Down 5-6 pooits and miss 2 wide open 3's and your opponent comes down and hits one and it's now a 8-9 point deficit.

This simply puts a dagger into both a young team and a team that is very very inexperienced playing together. I have absolutely complete faith in AG.
I have complete faith in AG as well! I already appreciate that he is not shy about recruiting 4 and 5 star players. Reading the posts on this thread made me realize how knowledgable Flyer fans are with regard to the problems and remedies needed for the team to improve! Being more consistent is the answer because this young team has shown flashes of how good they could become. We are only 6 games in! Kostas is a key. If he can learn how to stay out of foul trouble he could definitely become a game changer.

We definitely need improved play from the PG position. AG seems to be looking to the future by giving the majority of minutes to Crutcher and I believe he will correct his penchant for shooting 3's early in the shot clock and concentrate more on getting his teammates the ball. If he improves with each game his ceiling could be pretty high.

Every player on the team knows what they need to improve on and our success will depend on how much effort they show in practice to carry over in the games.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:42 PM
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We run more sets then we ever did under Archie. He ran a motion offense, that was really good the Final 8 year and changed the next two with Scoochie handling the ball for long periods of time. With Charles we ran a lot thru him and look back at the posts from last year, where he was being called a ball hog and the ball was getting stuck, ie the Wichita State game where Charles was throwing up shots from everywhere and missing. The Northwestern game where we had about two layups and shot 3s all nite and got mauled. So it happens, Grant has an offense that is not just passing it around..the kids are not ready yet and we need to add better players. WE have to be able to get more out of Josh/Kostas/Williams inside against good teams. Auburn was just better.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:48 PM
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Coach Grant's post game comments provided enough honest feedback to satisfy me. I appreciate the fact the he doesn't suffer from the "Coach Speak" phenomenon.

Simply put, Anthony said nothing happened to the Flyers last night, that they didn't expect; and thus he issued the challenge to his players to respond emotionally and physically in the future, the way, and at the level, for which he believes they are capable.

Auburn is not necessarily better than Dayton; they simply played with more composure, passion, and aggressiveness.

If you can give a certain former wheel spinning weave running coach eight years; then you can certainly give AG eight games?!?!?

Also, a big difference between Grant and the two previous regimes, is that Grant has assembled, by far, the most qualified staff ever at UD; at-least on paper. Mickey D had Hipsher, but never the total assembled staff like Grant has. Grant's connections have brought a whole new level of assistant coaches to UD...in a good way. Thus, I would expect the youthful and chemistry issues to get worked-out. Furthermore, and in all fairness to Grant, a young squad would always have a difficult time overcoming having two main players sidelined for several games. If anything, I would say Grant coached a real beauty against Akron, given that both Landers and Williams were absent.

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Old 11-30-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Millers team bowed to a really bad Indiana State team at home and did not compete. so they are getting better. Archie is a good coach, I love his intensity etc and what he did for us. I do question if is he able to play different styles and adapt to change.an example is this years Dike team with Coach K at 70 playing a match up Zone because he says his freshman cant guard man to man as yet. I don't think Archie has that in him and he will be like his brother very good... not great.
I believe that he's a better all-around coach than Sean. I even see him moving into an ultra-elite (UNC, DUKE) coaching job eventually because I believe he's that good.
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Old 11-30-2017, 03:55 PM
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We will see how he does at this level. He should get great players, I think he is too stubborn, lets see if can do it.... and I don't care
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:03 PM
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While Cunningham had some bad turnovers, ya can't put a lot on him. Auburn jumping quickness and bugs put a hurting on all of our guys.

Aside from a few plays ,

I thought Landers is VERY limited. Will he make some drives and nice interior passing, yes. It's not enough.

Matej stunk last night.
Jalen is extremely lazy with the ball.
Crosby.... ?
Kostas,should have been give another 3 to 5 minutes in first half to clog middle from 7 minutes to 3 remain. This is when Auburn 're upped and took the lead again

That leaves DD, kostast Jordan Davis, and ? To potentially do damage.

Without a solid Crosby, we will need DD bringing ball up , with Jalen providing balance of minutes at of.

We need help.
We actually needed X Williams

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Old 11-30-2017, 04:15 PM
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Flyer86, I can certainly understand your assessments; but I think you are wrong on Landers. UD cannot afford to be without at-least one player like Trey Landers. He is one, of a few players on the team, that brings the intangibles of heart, courage, and physical toughness. No, he is not the tallest, or the fastest, or the best shooter, etc., but he is above average at everything; and what "he has" you cannot completely teach, coach, or recruit it. He had a very odd game last night, I give you that; but he does so much that is not recorded in stats. He has a "Charlie Hustle" element to him, that every successful team needs a little of. Kyle Davis wasn't a lot of things either, but for sure UD would not have been the same without him. I would suggest to you that Landers is now that player.

And, keep in mind, he was out for two games prior to Auburn game.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:16 PM
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I'm not going to hijack this thread anymore than I have with posts about Archie. I just want to state something. I'm not a fan of his any longer. Maybe that's misinterpreted. I do however wish he'd have retired a Flyer. What I say about him is basically out of total respect. I'm glad UD had a similar foresight by offering him the big bucks, but I felt he was a big fish in a small pond while he was here.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:19 PM
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I'm definitely a Trey Landers fan. He has IT. IT needs refined, but he has a lot of fortitude and puts it to use on the court.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:06 PM
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Maybe ODU had a bit but the other 4 teams the Flyers played were nowhere near as athletic or quick as Auburn. There may be talent issues but our guys did not play with any composure. I will be interested to see how they respond on the road at Miss St. MSU may not be as good as Auburn but I am sure they have some of the same qualities.

You can bet the other A10 teams will be up for their games at the Arena. This team better be ready to play every night.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:07 PM
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I stated last spring and prior to this season that Trey is an integral part of this team. I still believe that. He does everything fairly well. He brings swagger and toughness. He won't stuff the stat sheet every night, but he will give you plenty that may or may not show up on the sheet.

One of the best things about Trey is simply the way he plays. He doesn't take time off.

I like all the guys on this team. Trey is a guy that may not be at the top of everyone's radar, but he is one of my favorites. I like the way the guy plays. Not to mention he is a hell of a nice kid.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I'm definitely a Trey Landers fan. He has IT. IT needs refined, but he has a lot of fortitude and puts it to use on the court.
I agree. Case in point, last night he was out on a fast break and made the bucket, he turns around on the baseline and sprinted back up court to get back into defensive position.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:13 PM
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Cince When is the Tennesse Football Program the Model?

Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Tennessee fans beg to differ with this statement. If I don't like a coaching hire in the future I plan to start a twitter revolt like they did.
Spare us. The AD who surrendered his authority will be fired. Tennessee football is a mess.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Take a look at the game again. We missed several shots around the basket. Watch second half vs Akron...good 3 point shooting and very good passing and feeds for layups...that same offense then played a better team and our players where not up to it. Not the system..its the performers.He will get better players and hopefully healthy ones and we will get better. Reminder, Archies ball movement came to a halt in the last 3 games of the season last year. Need good players.
In the first 12 minutes of the second half of the Akron game we attempted 10 3's and only 5 2-point attempts, with 4 of the 5 attempts being from 15+ feet. The floor opened up and we then got the looks around the basket. Instead of working it inside-out, we did it in reverse. That may work one game, but it really isn't a sustainable strategy. Need to work it inside either by posting up or dribble penetration. The kick-out pass to 3 pt shooter leads to higher percentage shot.

Against Auburn, lot of perimeter passing and settling for jumpers. This time we didn't hit shots. When you aren't hitting from the perimeter, the defense compacts making it that much harder to establish anything on the inside.

While it may not be fair to Coach Grant at this point, the thing that immediately concerns me is that we are falling into the same pattern Gregory coached teams fell into.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
If you can give a certain former wheel spinning weave running coach eight years; then you can certainly give AG eight games?!?!?

Also, a big difference between Grant and the two previous regimes, is that Grant has assembled, by far, the most qualified staff ever at UD; at-least on paper. Mickey D had Hipsher, but never the total assembled staff like Grant has. Grant's connections have brought a whole new level of assistant coaches to UD...in a good way.


Just because we have an experienced staff, does not mean that they will do a good job. Archie's staff, relative to other UD staffs, was probably light on experience, but they did a great job.

Nobody is calling for Grant's head, he should get at least 3 or 4 years. This is going to be excruciatingly painful though, if things do not improve.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
Flyer86, I can certainly understand your assessments; but I think you are wrong on Landers. UD cannot afford to be without at-least one player like Trey Landers. He is one, of a few players on the team, that brings the intangibles of heart, courage, and physical toughness. No, he is not the tallest, or the fastest, or the best shooter, etc., but he is above average at everything; and what "he has" you cannot completely teach, coach, or recruit it. He had a very odd game last night, I give you that; but he does so much that is not recorded in stats. He has a "Charlie Hustle" element to him, that every successful team needs a little of. Kyle Davis wasn't a lot of things either, but for sure UD would not have been the same without him. I would suggest to you that Landers is now that player.

And, keep in mind, he was out for two games prior to Auburn game.
Right on BTC. In the three games Landers has played, he's averaged 10 pts, and 6 RB's. Hustles on D, and seems to always be around the ball. He doesn't need to be the star, but there's a role for a player with this level on contribution. Not too bad for a kid that basically played zip last year.

Any by the way, let's get more shots for Jordan Davis. He can ball.
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Old 12-01-2017, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Indiana also got manhandled on their home court by Indiana St., and a pretty bad South Florida team hung with them for 35 minutes of that game. I wouldn't be so quick to give Miller the Coach of the Year award quite yet (not directed at you, but those who are praising him).

It took Miller late into his 3rd season before he really started getting this program rolling. Many on here were ready to move on and questioning his coaching, including myself. He also left very little here to build upon, so it may just take that long again before we start seeing results.

This board is going to get ugly by the end of the season, which is unfortunate. After just what, six games, and some are acting as if he doesn't have a clue on coaching offense? I may not be as "knowledgeable" on the game itself as some here claim they are, but I'm going to stick with the confidence I have that Coach Grant knows what he's doing.

And for those who want to round up random articles and forum entries from when AG was at Alabama, maybe we should also start looking at threads from here just months from the Elite 8 run.

There's a big difference between a 35 year old coach 1st time coach in his 3rd year & a 51 year old coach with a 9 year track record across two jobs

Nearly decade as a head coach & we know what we're getting. The Alabama articles are relevant because AG for better or worse has a track record as a head coach

The knock on AG is that he runs a BG like offense & gets BG like results
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:32 AM
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One thing that I would like to see and, as a season ticket holder, would be the price of admission is the question, "What would Kostas stat line look like if he played 34 minutes in a game"? I think foul trouble has contributed more to his lack of minutes more so than his lack of conditioning. Following are his lines for our first 6 games: Game 1 Ball St.- 16 min. 3pts. 2 reb. with 2 quick fouls! Game 2 Hofstra (his best game to date)- 26 min. 10 pts. on 5-8 shooting, 10 reb. 4 blocks and only 2 fouls! Game 3 Ohio U- 13min. 4 pts. 3 blocks, 2 fouls. Game 4 Old Dominion- 15 min. 2 pts. 2 fouls. Game 5 Akron (with Xeyrius out with back spasms)- 23 min. 12 pts. on 5-6 shooting, 3 reb. and 4 fouls. Game 6- Auburn- 21min. (mostly all in second half) 3 pts. 0 reb. 2 blocks with 2 fouls in a 28 second span at beginning of game and 3 total because he played tentative.

It took Kendall Pollard 4 years to figure it out that he can not help his team if he is constantly on the bench sitting because of two quick fouls! When he was on the floor he was a game changer! I hope it doesn't take Kostas near as long to figure it out!

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Old 12-01-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
There's a big difference between a 35 year old coach 1st time coach in his 3rd year & a 51 year old coach with a 9 year track record across two jobs

Nearly decade as a head coach & we know what we're getting. The Alabama articles are relevant because AG for better or worse has a track record as a head coach

The knock on AG is that he runs a BG like offense & gets BG like results
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Who does that "knock" come from? Message board experts and local newspaper columnists?

Whatever, Miller's teams the past two seasons often looked lost on offense and were barely NCAA caliber teams. He had a great two year run at UD where everything gelled and where some luck was involved. The last two seasons one can easily make the argument his teams underachieved.

Miller is a good coach, he isn't a coaching God.

I'm still amazed that Grant beat Duke in the tournament without knowing anything about offense. Yet Miller gets praised for losing to them by 10 points on Indiana's home court.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Who does that "knock" come from? Message board experts and local newspaper columnists?

Whatever, Miller's teams the past two seasons often looked lost on offense and were barely NCAA caliber teams. He had a great two year run at UD where everything gelled and where some luck was involved. The last two seasons one can easily make the argument his teams underachieved.

Miller is a good coach, he isn't a coaching God.

I'm still amazed that Grant beat Duke in the tournament without knowing anything about offense. Yet Miller gets praised for losing to them by 10 points on Indiana's home court.
A bit of a difference, Duke was a #6 seed that year with 11 losses including their last 3 games. This year they are a unanimous #1, who have already beaten 2 top ten teams.

Your point may be valid, but your comparison is shakey.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:11 PM
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:20 PM
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I think JimBo is spot on. Archie to his credit created tough minded group. But the offense was never pretty, other than Final 8 year, the ball really moved. We are all on the same page with wanting to be a great not good program. The two models for us are Gonzaga and Wichita State, you need a really good coach who is not looking for the next step and mix in transfers. We want a Mark Few, who is content and can coach and recruit. This will be there 19th straight year in the NCAA. Dayton should dominate the ATen and we don't. Archie got frustrated as all aspiring young up and comers and wanted more. He never used the words or said Dayton can win it all. Both Few and Marshall believe it can be done. With our facilities it can be done and also lead eventually to a better conference. Archie quit on Dayton and as an alum I don't buy the ..well he has to take the Indiana Job, I hope Grant is that guy.
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Even when in the game they have to be fed the ball. That's the point.

You beat zones by attacking gaps, passing, and hitting the bigs on flashes and the dead spots. That doesn't happen and no one even attempted to execute that.
i think if X man was in , he is a decent flasher on the foul line, just the guards have to send it in. They know Xman and Josh C, they dont' know Svoboda and the other guys as well yet.

Remember we had issues attacking zone with Pierre and Scoochie and Sibert and the boys...until they figured it out. And really became skillful at it?
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
One thing that I would like to see and, as a season ticket holder, would be the price of admission is the question, "What would Kostas stat line look like if he played 34 minutes in a game"? I think foul trouble has contributed more to his lack of minutes more so than his lack of conditioning. Following are his lines for our first 6 games: Game 1 Ball St.- 16 min. 3pts. 2 reb. with 2 quick fouls! Game 2 Hofstra (his best game to date)- 26 min. 10 pts. on 5-8 shooting, 10 reb. 4 blocks and only 2 fouls! Game 3 Ohio U- 13min. 4 pts. 3 blocks, 2 fouls. Game 4 Old Dominion- 15 min. 2 pts. 2 fouls. Game 5 Akron (with Xeyrius out with back spasms)- 23 min. 12 pts. on 5-6 shooting, 3 reb. and 4 fouls. Game 6- Auburn- 21min. (mostly all in second half) 3 pts. 0 reb. 2 blocks with 2 fouls in a 28 second span at beginning of game and 3 total because he played tentative.

It took Kendall Pollard 4 years to figure it out that he can not help his team if he is constantly on the bench sitting because of two quick fouls! When he was on the floor he was a game changer! I hope it doesn't take Kostas near as long to figure it out!
VERY valid point here. If Kostas plays 25 to 28 minutes without foul trouble, what does teh Auburn game look like. Possibly very different if he's able to :

alter shots
grab some boards
slow guys up in the lane.
make some key passes and buckets on offense.

WE NEED a good 16 to 20 minutes of energy and play by Kostas to be good this year. Here's hoping foul trouble doesn't plague him!
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I'm definitely a Trey Landers fan. He has IT. IT needs refined, but he has a lot of fortitude and puts it to use on the court.
I"m a fan of his energy. Not sure yet where he is on skills and positioning and getting the ball to shoot. Def has a knack on passing, has a strong body.

He had breakaway layup he shot with wrong hand , and missed.
Few unnecessary turnovers.

I think refinement is the word, as you mentioned Flyer 5. He's not big enough to play forward. He's gonna need to be a sneaky guy on the inside, adn more consistent shooter on the outside. NOt easy.
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That is what I am really wondering too. What in the world happened between when he left VCU and arrived at Alabama. His results at those 2 schools are significantly different.

He was on top of the world at VCU. Everybody wanted him. What happened at Alabama? What changed?

Alabama:

Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank

2014-2015 17-14 0.5436 85 0.5544 55 nit
2013-2014 12-19 0.5192 124 0.5898 7
2012-2013 20-12 0.5655 60 0.5469 76 nit
2011-2012 21-11 0.5883 36 0.5679 30 ncaat
2010-2011 21-11 0.5545 80 0.5217 114 nit
2009-2010 17-15 0.5379 102 0.5575 46

Average rpi: 81

VCU:

2008-2009 24-9 0.5783 50 0.5194 118 ncaat
2007-2008 24-7 0.5708 54 0.4990 161 nit
2006-2007 27-6 0.5844 44 0.5095 126 ncaat

Average rpi: 49
Not to excuse his offense there. But he was playing regularly at Kentucky, Florida, and the big time programs of the SEC. Personally i think it was mistake to leave VCU with such outstanding numbers.

But as these guys do, they shoot for bigger programs and bigger paychecks. Not always to their fulfillment or wisdom.

Before looking iIthought these numbers would be worse at Alabama. How would u even run Havoc against the athletes of Kentucky or Fla? It just wouldn't work unless he recruited athletes big time.

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Old 12-01-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Who does that "knock" come from? Message board experts and local newspaper columnists?

Whatever, Miller's teams the past two seasons often looked lost on offense and were barely NCAA caliber teams. He had a great two year run at UD where everything gelled and where some luck was involved. The last two seasons one can easily make the argument his teams underachieved.

Miller is a good coach, he isn't a coaching God.

I'm still amazed that Grant beat Duke in the tournament without knowing anything about offense. Yet Miller gets praised for losing to them by 10 points on Indiana's home court.
Give Jim O'Brien a 1st round pick at PG & even he can win a tourney game
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
i think if X man was in , he is a decent flasher on the foul line, just the guards have to send it in. They know Xman and Josh C, they dont' know Svoboda and the other guys as well yet.

Remember we had issues attacking zone with Pierre and Scoochie and Sibert and the boys...until they figured it out. And really became skillful at it?
Trey is a smaller Charles Little (6'6'' vs 6'05'' and smaller frame) in terms of working the top of the key. X hasn't been in the paint all season and I don't expect them to change it up now. I wish they would, but I don't see it. CL would get the ball and shoot that little 12 footer. Missed a bunch, but we cleaned up the boards back then.

Pierre worked the top of the key and had an unorthodox handle and got to the rim. Trey has to be that guy at the top of the key and the bigs have to work the baseline. I think that is the best option with the small lineups until the bigs prove they can work the top key with handles.
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Trey is a smaller Charles Little (6'6'' vs 6'05'' and smaller frame) in terms of working the top of the key. X hasn't been in the paint all season and I don't expect them to change it up now. I wish they would, but I don't see it. CL would get the ball and shoot that little 12 footer. Missed a bunch, but we cleaned up the boards back then.

Pierre worked the top of the key and had an unorthodox handle and got to the rim. Trey has to be that guy at the top of the key and the bigs have to work the baseline. I think that is the best option with the small lineups until the bigs prove they can work the top key with handles.
This is a really good observation with Landers/Little & breaking a zone

I'm not sure how well X or Kostas can handle high post in a zone. Toppin is intriguing to me because he was a guard who grew a ton & at least off the recruiting reports could be a multi position guy who could be the high post against a zone. We'll see that next year moving forward
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:13 PM
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I was hoping the guys would make me regret starting this thread tonight. Instead, it's just a painful confirmation. Terrible.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:06 PM
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Not that the half court offense is really good at this point (because itís not), but in the preview of todayís Penn game, thereís a stat about our 2-point FG % being around 57% at this point in the year. IIRC, thatís top 50 in D-I. I thought the flow had been looking a little better since halftime of the MSU game.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:22 PM
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I'll take Cunningham's and Jordan Davis's effort today. You can have the rest. Huge step backwards today. Be lucky to make the A10 tourney if today's play is any indication of future performance from this team.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
...I thought the flow had been looking a little better since halftime of the MSU game.
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I had to say it...
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:29 PM
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Why can't we feed the ball into the post?
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