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  #1  
Old 12-09-2020, 03:08 PM
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I actually feel pretty good about this team

I know a lot of you are down, heck the players walked off the court looking like they had lost against NKU. But I feel pretty good about this team.

Grant has a new team this year. Think about it. You need 8-9 guys to make a rotation, and only 3 1/2 are really known quantities to Grant. Half of our rotation are guys Grant had on the scout team last year who didn't even sniff the floor. Zimi, Sissoko, Blakney, Chase, these are all new pieces to fit together. Our current rotation is about 6-7.

Chase only played in 8 games total last year. Don't call him a veteran, he only played in 6 total games at Florida! In game terms, he's a kid.

Crutcher hasn't shot the ball worth spit. He's only shooting 28% from 3, and we all know he's a better shooter than that. Once that gets well it will change his game.

Don't underestimate the effects of frustration compounding to frustration. Chapman looks like he's ready to quit the game of basketball entirely. Crutcher has let a couple teammates have it for being in the wrong spot. The opposite can be true once we start playing together, we can have a virtuous cycle happen.

Blakney looks talented. He's a playa. Sissoko is beefy, aggressive, good lateral movement for such a big guy. Plenty of time to develop into a contributor. If Weaver gets eligible there's help on the way for our guards potentially.

Zimi is getting minutes and had a redshirt year, that's a guy who should be showing a bit more for us.

I think this team has the ability to peak later in the season.
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2020, 04:05 PM
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I wish I was as optimistic, but that's all based what one's expectations were/are as well.

Mine - an NCAA Tournament team and a Top 3/4 finisher in the A10. Oh, and beat SLU once.

With only a few games to evaluate, I'm not sure we can meet ANY of my expectations. And I don't believe any of those were unrealistic coming into the season.

Resetting expectations - a gradual progression and improvement over the next month so that I can revisit those expectations in early January.

Right now, there's A LOT of work to do. I trust CAG will figure out what's wrong with our offense, beyond fixing the turnover issues.

Personally, I hope to see Crutcher with the ball in his hands A LOT more than what I've seen the first few games. I like what Chatman brings to the table and he's a really good player. But he's not our best quarterback. He doesn't see the floor as well as Crutcher and his decision making isn't as consistent as we need/expect out of a primary ballhandler.

That's all for now. I'll watch every game with as much support and anticipation as I always have, but also trying to "keep it real"

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Old 12-09-2020, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I know a lot of you are down, heck the players walked off the court looking like they had lost against NKU. But I feel pretty good about this team.

Grant has a new team this year. Think about it. You need 8-9 guys to make a rotation, and only 3 1/2 are really known quantities to Grant. Half of our rotation are guys Grant had on the scout team last year who didn't even sniff the floor. Zimi, Sissoko, Blakney, Chase, these are all new pieces to fit together. Our current rotation is about 6-7.

Chase only played in 8 games total last year. Don't call him a veteran, he only played in 6 total games at Florida! In game terms, he's a kid.

Crutcher hasn't shot the ball worth spit. He's only shooting 28% from 3, and we all know he's a better shooter than that. Once that gets well it will change his game.

Don't underestimate the effects of frustration compounding to frustration. Chapman looks like he's ready to quit the game of basketball entirely. Crutcher has let a couple teammates have it for being in the wrong spot. The opposite can be true once we start playing together, we can have a virtuous cycle happen.

Blakney looks talented. He's a playa. Sissoko is beefy, aggressive, good lateral movement for such a big guy. Plenty of time to develop into a contributor. If Weaver gets eligible there's help on the way for our guards potentially.

Zimi is getting minutes and had a redshirt year, that's a guy who should be showing a bit more for us.

I think this team has the ability to peak later in the season.
So it's not even Christmas and you are celebrating NY's Eve already!

Good for U!

But I've sobered up with the number of TO's the team gives out!
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:20 PM
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I love Jordy...absolutely love that guy.

But we're better and more efficient on the floor without him.

Today's college basketball game is a 35 min race with the other 5 min set aside for clock control and strategy...so speed matters more than strength (did I just say that?? UGH!)! There are certain times/situations when his size/strength is needed, and his assets - size, strength - are best used in those situations. Same with Sissoko.

I like our team when it plays small and runs. I believe that we are more dangerous as a running team and hope that we morph into a running team. Scoring 66 pts for 3-straight games (thanks for that stat Sir SDF) isn't going to win us any important games.

I'm sure Grant knows this. The only question now is: how will he adjust?

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  #5  
Old 12-09-2020, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Scoring 66 pts for 3-straight games (thanks for that stat Sir SDF) isn't going to win us any important games.
Just to set the record straight, we’ve scored 66, 64, and 66 points. SMU scored 66 to beat us. Not that this changes your point. An offensive juggernaut we’re not. We need to pick it up post haste.
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Old 12-09-2020, 08:21 PM
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I think the team has underperformed the first three games.

I am most concerned about their lack of hunger. The worst thing that could have happened was hitting 8 straight shots to start the season. You could tell, they were thinking "This will be easy again".

Every team they play this year will be hungry to knock them off and/or pay back for last year. So far in the three games the opposition has been much hungrier and aggressive.

If this team rekindles the fire in their belly, they will be very good. They will still have weaknesses, but they will compete better.

They also need to focus better. Unforced and lazy Turnovers along with missed free throws indicates a need to concentrate and focus better.

I believe they will improve as the season progresses.
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Old 12-09-2020, 08:24 PM
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We appear to be a better defensive team. That’s the reason we’ve won 2 of these first 3 games.
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2020, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
I think the team has underperformed the first three games.

I am most concerned about their lack of hunger. The worst thing that could have happened was hitting 8 straight shots to start the season. You could tell, they were thinking "This will be easy again".

Every team they play this year will be hungry to knock them off and/or pay back for last year. So far in the three games the opposition has been much hungrier and aggressive.

If this team rekindles the fire in their belly, they will be very good. They will still have weaknesses, but they will compete better.

They also need to focus better. Unforced and lazy Turnovers along with missed free throws indicates a need to concentrate and focus better.

I believe they will improve as the season progresses.
This team reminds me of the 2011 Cincinnati Reds. The year before was a breakthrough year, when they made the playoffs for the first time in the GABP era. Part of the reason why was, they hustled their @$$es off, leading the league in going from first to third on a single. The next year, rather than playing with the hunger of a team that had a taste of the playoffs and wanted more, they played with the self-satisfaction of a team that had found the Promised Land, and the results were predictable: a 79-83 record, and a 3rd Place finish in the NL Central. Let’s hope our guys aren’t “self-satisfied”.
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
This team reminds me of the 2011 Cincinnati Reds. The year before was a breakthrough year, when they made the playoffs for the first time in the GABP era. Part of the reason why was, they hustled their @$$es off, leading the league in going from first to third on a single. The next year, rather than playing with the hunger of a team that had a taste of the playoffs and wanted more, they played with the self-satisfaction of a team that had found the Promised Land, and the results were predictable: a 79-83 record, and a 3rd Place finish in the NL Central. Let’s hope our guys aren’t “self-satisfied”.
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Ummm, except the MVP of the 2010 Reds, and the National League had 719 plate appearances in 2011 while the John Wooden award winner from the Flyers' 2019-2020 season is going to get zero minutes. If Obi was still here, your analogy would make more sense.

Baseball takes very little strategy and chemistry changing when you change personnel. Basketball is totally different. You can't just plug one or two players in and expect the same results. Good lord, we lost the top player in college basketball plus the two other leading rebounders and inside players and people are expecting things to be the same? IT TAKES TIME.

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Old 12-09-2020, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I love Jordy...absolutely love that guy.

But we're better and more efficient on the floor without him.


King Rollo the Honest...OUT!

At times it may appear that way, but explain please how in the first two games Jordy led the team in +/- according to Figstats (Thanks Figgie)

ClaytoFlyerFan the Numbers Geek....OUT
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
At times it may appear that way, but explain please how in the first two games Jordy led the team in +/- according to Figstats (Thanks Figgie)

ClaytoFlyerFan the Numbers Geek....OUT
Just throwing this out there because I'm not sure. But if most of the time that Jordy sits, Sissoko plays, that could explain it. Everybody elses +/- might drop when Sissoko spells Jordy. Therefore, they aren't substituting speed for size as Rollo proposes.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Just throwing this out there because I'm not sure. But if most of the time that Jordy sits, Sissoko plays, that could explain it. Everybody elses +/- might drop when Sissoko spells Jordy. Therefore, they aren't substituting speed for size as Rollo proposes.

Yes Sissoko numbers are not good, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in 28 1/2 minutes against SMU the Flyers were a +8 when Jordy was on the floor. Which means in the 11 1/2 minutes Jordy was on the pine we were a -10.

Against E. Illinios he was +16 in 26 minutes, which means the team was a -14 when Jordy was on the pine, err cushioned folding chair.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Yes Sissoko numbers are not good, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in 28 1/2 minutes against SMU the Flyers were a +8 when Jordy was on the floor. Which means in the 11 1/2 minutes Jordy was on the pine we were a -10.

Against E. Illinios he was +16 in 26 minutes, which means the team was a -14 when Jordy was on the pine, err cushioned folding chair.
I'm just throwing out a theory. If Sissoko is that bad currently, of course the whole team is going to suffer when he's out there. Rollo's point was go small, not replace Jordy with another big.

BTW, I'm not agreeing with him, just saying that until we see what a small fast lineup can do with Jordy on the bench, we have nothing to compare it to. Comparing it to when Sissoko is out there just shows us that Jordy is a much better big man at this time.

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Old 12-10-2020, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
King Rollo the Honest...OUT!
If we are being honest, I really don't have high expectations for this season due to the losses. This isn't a rebuild but it won't be a convincing carryover either.

Unfortunately for the average Facebook fan that watches games and doesn't understand the roster, where the players were and their roles last season, and who is coming on board....will simply hate on the team because they aren't last years team.

This team will compete and will still have a solid finish, but you simply don't lose three guys as impactful as the three we lost and hit all strides out of the gate.

We also have to realize that our 8-10 points at home are essentially GONE this season.

We are going to see a cyclical team with turnover this year and next. If we were a +10 last season, lets hope we say above 0 this year on the bell curve and not dip into the - category.

I don't know how this season will end, but I expect less convincing wins, plenty of close games, and enough minutes to mature these guys for the future.
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
If we are being honest, I really don't have high expectations for this season due to the losses. This isn't a rebuild but it won't be a convincing carryover either.

Unfortunately for the average Facebook fan that watches games and doesn't understand the roster, where the players were and their roles last season, and who is coming on board....will simply hate on the team because they aren't last years team.

This team will compete and will still have a solid finish, but you simply don't lose three guys as impactful as the three we lost and hit all strides out of the gate.

We also have to realize that our 8-10 points at home are essentially GONE this season.

We are going to see a cyclical team with turnover this year and next. If we were a +10 last season, lets hope we say above 0 this year on the bell curve and not dip into the - category.

I don't know how this season will end, but I expect less convincing wins, plenty of close games, and enough minutes to mature these guys for the future.
And after I hit send on this I believe I said the exact thing two seasons ago when we ended up in the NIT and we see how 19-20 turned out...
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:36 AM
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I love the guys who say things like "THAT GUY is terrible, our +/- is bad with him on the court, he should never see the court again!!" You know, kind of like what people said about nearly every freshman in the last 20 years. If our coaches behaved like that our program would be a shambles.

This is why Grant has been good at developing players. If you write guys off, you not only lose that guy you lose the other guys who think "one bad game and I might be out of the rotation like him." It's cumulative. Instead Grant keeps them coming back to practice every day looking to get better.

It's game #4. Zimi and Sissoko haven't quite figured it out yet, Zimi in particular has looked really lost to me. Maybe we're a better team playing small, but that's a different reason for not playing Sissoko, it's not just that his production hasn't been good. Maybe Sissoko and Jordy should both only be playing 10-15 minutes per game. But Obi isn't walking through those doors, and you've only got so many able bodied players right now, and Grant has to try to win with the players he's got.

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Old 12-10-2020, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I love Jordy...absolutely love that guy.

But we're better and more efficient on the floor without him.

Today's college basketball game is a 35 min race with the other 5 min set aside for clock control and strategy...so speed matters more than strength (did I just say that?? UGH!)! There are certain times/situations when his size/strength is needed, and his assets - size, strength - are best used in those situations. Same with Sissoko.

I like our team when it plays small and runs. I believe that we are more dangerous as a running team and hope that we morph into a running team. Scoring 66 pts for 3-straight games (thanks for that stat Sir SDF) isn't going to win us any important games.

I'm sure Grant knows this. The only question now is: how will he adjust?

King Rollo the Honest...OUT!
So by small, you mean we're going to play a high energy running game with:
Crutcher
Chapman
Ibi
Chase

And then who? Are we going to play 4 against 5, because the only other options are Blakney, who I LOVE but has scored all of 8 points on the year, and yes I get that. And our next sub for this run and gun sweet 16 team is. . . walkon Christian Wilson?

How are we going to run and gun with 5 guys and a walk-on? Sure, we made the sweet 16 with 6 guys and a walk-on once, but that team sent 1 guy to the offensive boards and played very controlled energy.
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:48 AM
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For $3M+/year, I promise to figure that out.
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Old 12-10-2020, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Just throwing this out there because I'm not sure. But if most of the time that Jordy sits, Sissoko plays, that could explain it. Everybody elses +/- might drop when Sissoko spells Jordy. Therefore, they aren't substituting speed for size as Rollo proposes.
This still does not justify sitting Jordy. If UD has its best+/- with Jordy in the game then the logic would be not to pull him and go small but rather to have him play all the time.

But Jordy is not a able to be on the court all forty minutes, obviously. So the primary question for Rollo and others is not what strategy to pursue when Jordy is on the court but rather what strategy to pursue when he is not on the court ie go small or stay big. Only after that question is resolved can we take the next step and decide whether the + / - would be even better if Jordy was not on the court.
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:21 AM
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The reason Sissoko's +/- numbers are where they are... is a result of who is on the floor with him (a lot of the time he has been out there when Wilson is in the game, and sometimes Zimi too).
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
At times it may appear that way, but explain please how in the first two games Jordy led the team in +/- according to Figstats (Thanks Figgie)

ClaytoFlyerFan the Numbers Geek....OUT
I'm trying to find last season's Figstats with Obi's +/-. At 29-2 and a per-game scoring average of >20 ppg, there's no doubt that Obi is (+), I'm just curious how everyone else falls into place.

And Sir Clayton, since you are the self-proclaimed Royal Numbers Geek, could you pull those up and share them with my Kingdom?

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Old 12-10-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I'm trying to find last season's Figstats with Obi's +/-. At 29-2 and a per-game scoring average of >20 ppg, there's no doubt that Obi is (+), I'm just curious how everyone else falls into place.

And Sir Clayton, since you are the self-proclaimed Royal Numbers Geek, could you pull those up and share them with my Kingdom?

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Well first of all, on a 29-2 team everyone who played significant minutes should be a +, as upon quick glance was the case last season as every scholarship player plus our now famous Christian Wilson were in positive territory.

Last years numbers mean nothing though when the current debate was do we bench or give fewer minutes to Jordy and go small.

But here are your numbers from last season per your request King. Does not take a rocket surgeon to find such info!

Now I need to get back to work unless more research I need to do for you.

ud | prevavg | curravg | avtime | diffavg | stddev | effect
-----+---------+---------+--------+---------+--------+---------
TLa | 12.833 | 13.323 | 28:53 | 0.490 | 11.432 | 18.448
JCr | 12.862 | 12.933 | 33:40 | 0.071 | 8.723 | 15.365
OTo | 11.267 | 11.871 | 31:35 | 0.604 | 8.714 | 15.033
RMi | 11.767 | 11.323 | 26:46 | -0.444 | 9.030 | 16.919
RCh | 10.667 | 11.194 | 26:44 | 0.527 | 10.287 | 16.749
IWa | 8.367 | 8.871 | 22:29 | 0.504 | 8.386 | 15.784
JMa | 3.800 | 3.692 | 08:40 | -0.108 | 5.880 | 17.058
JTs | 3.538 | 3.556 | 09:47 | 0.018 | 7.758 | 14.543
DCo | 2.379 | 2.233 | 13:16 | -0.146 | 6.575 | 6.731
CJo | 2.000 | 2.000 | 11:05 | 0.000 | 9.347 | 7.222
CWi | 0.500 | 0.467 | 01:53 | -0.033 | 2.340 | 9.935
CGr | -0.385 | -0.357 | 01:21 | 0.028 | 1.678 | -10.638
DSw | -1.000 | -1.000 | 01:02 | 0.000 | 1.789 | -38.710
JBe | -1.200 | -1.200 | 00:44 | 0.000 | 1.000 | -65.753
SLo | -2.000 | -2.000 | 01:02 | 0.000 | 0.000 | -77.419
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2020, 12:42 PM
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The "going small" plan died the day Cohill's knee got torn up.

Perhaps Blakney can be the 4th guard to run a small lineup with Chase at the 5. Only time will tell. We do seem to play better with only one big on the floor at a time. The problem is we have no guard depth whatsoever...
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
If we are being honest, I really don't have high expectations for this season due to the losses. This isn't a rebuild but it won't be a convincing carryover either.

Unfortunately for the average Facebook fan that watches games and doesn't understand the roster, where the players were and their roles last season, and who is coming on board....will simply hate on the team because they aren't last years team.

This team will compete and will still have a solid finish, but you simply don't lose three guys as impactful as the three we lost and hit all strides out of the gate.

We also have to realize that our 8-10 points at home are essentially GONE this season.

We are going to see a cyclical team with turnover this year and next. If we were a +10 last season, lets hope we say above 0 this year on the bell curve and not dip into the - category.

I don't know how this season will end, but I expect less convincing wins, plenty of close games, and enough minutes to mature these guys for the future.
You would be correct on many points here but the real elephant in the room is "turnovers". Regarding your point on turnover is correct but what concerns me more than anything and is absolutely an embarrassment belief are the actual turnovers. There are 2 multi year starters that are both PG's on this team and I've never seen another team with veterans that handle the ball as weak, dribble as carelessly and force weak passes to their teammates like these two guys.

Certainly, not even half the TO's are attributed to JC and RC but everything starts with those 2 guys. There are and have been far better back courts than those two but the experience of playing 1000's of minutes of college BB is not showing right now.

Simply put, ID is averaging around 19-20 turnovers per game right now I believe and if they can cut those down by 20-25% (which they will) which is still alot then they'll be far better on the offensive end being close to a 50% shooting team and if they can continue to play pretty good half-court D then that will also get even better based on giving opponents less possessions. We always talk about coaches putting players in the best position to succeed but that also goes for players and those that are veteran and experienced players who handle the ball the majority of the time.

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Old 12-10-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
This still does not justify sitting Jordy. If UD has its best+/- with Jordy in the game then the logic would be not to pull him and go small but rather to have him play all the time.

But Jordy is not a able to be on the court all forty minutes, obviously. So the primary question for Rollo and others is not what strategy to pursue when Jordy is on the court but rather what strategy to pursue when he is not on the court ie go small or stay big. Only after that question is resolved can we take the next step and decide whether the + / - would be even better if Jordy was not on the court.
I agree. I was just pointing out why the +- might be what it is. Just playing devil's advocate. +- doesn't tell a whole story. It certainly doesn't tell you how much a player contributes based on who he's on the floor with.
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:11 PM
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With Dayton Playing 7 Guys and a Walk-On

a question must be addressed. Has the coaching staff mismanaged the roster this year?
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:17 PM
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I hate to bring it up, but next year could be worse. We have two good guards this year, and when they leave along with Chatman and Jordy we may have more bodies, but little experience outside of Chase.
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I hate to bring it up, but next year could be worse. We have two good guards this year, and when they leave along with Chatman and Jordy we may have more bodies, but little experience outside of Chase.
And hopefully Weaver if he can get cleared and play meaningful minutes this year...but point well taken.
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:32 PM
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They played their way into a 1 seed last year, and despite the early struggles, this season isn't done yet. In addition to last year, they have an excellent recruiting class coming in next year plus Weaver and that other kid get added to the mix as soon as next week.


The roster is what it is, take the best talent you can get, when you can get it and sort out the issues down the line when/if they present themselves.


Personally, I think the defense is way ahead of where I expected it to be, while the offense is way behind. I started seeing glimpses of it in the NKU game, guys moving with out the ball setting themselves up for easy dishes and layups/dunks. We all knew Obi was going to be missed, I don't think any of us could put a reasonable number on just how much the IQs and leadership of Trey and Mikesell are missed right now.


My biggest question mark is why haven't we seen Frasier yet? I get that Brea was supposedly going to redshirt and is injured at the moment. But why is Luke buried on the bench? How is wilson getting minutes over him. Nothing against Christain, but he doesn't strike me as that walkon that got overlooked and is a key asset. But obviously Luke isn't doing anything to earn those minutes over him, and that has me concerned.
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
And hopefully Weaver if he can get cleared and play meaningful minutes this year...but point well taken.

And Cohill.
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Old 12-10-2020, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
And hopefully Weaver if he can get cleared and play meaningful minutes this year...but point well taken.
Also, what about Mustapha Amzil? Hopefully, he will be a diamond in the rough!
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Old 12-10-2020, 04:19 PM
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I really think our canceled games put us behind the eight ball early in the season, and we are playing teams that have more game experience. This is a big deal this early in the season. Last year, as good as we were, we sputtered along before Maui, then it all clicked. I am still hoping this team figures it all out. I think the talent is there for us to make the tournament, and maybe win a couple of games.

Right now, the two most important things are limiting TOs and getting more experience playing together, and I think the two go hand in hand.
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Old 12-10-2020, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I hate to bring it up, but next year could be worse. We have two good guards this year, and when they leave along with Chatman and Jordy we may have more bodies, but little experience outside of Chase.
I was talking to some family about that. I've seen notes on here about this season being a "rebuild year," which I hardly see as being true with our starting five being four seniors and a junior. Two of those seniors are our starting 1 and 2 from last season, with one receiving a whole slew of pre-season accolades. We also have two freshman that were with the team last season, being Zimi and Mouleye.

This is the kind of year where you have every opportunity to prove you can be a perennial threat!

Next season? Now, that's one I can chalk up as a rebuild year!
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  #34  
Old 12-10-2020, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
Also, what about Mustapha Amzil? Hopefully, he will be a diamond in the rough!
Personally, I like the upside of Moose.

Hopefully, we're beyond "hoping" with most of our recruits. Hope is no strategy and "hoping" to find a diamond in the rough is like playing a slot machine.

With 4-star recruits on the doorstep, I'm hoping they simply deliver as advertised and backup the stars behind their name(s) at 247, Rivals, ESPN, etc.
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Old 12-10-2020, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
Next season? Now, that's one I can chalk up as a rebuild year!
As noted in my other comment/post - with 4-star recruits coming in, there should not be a rebuild, but just a reload. Most 4-stars should be able to contribute immediately. And with our roster for 2021/22, they will get plenty of opportunity for regular minutes.
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Old 12-10-2020, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I hate to bring it up, but next year could be worse. We have two good guards this year, and when they leave along with Chatman and Jordy we may have more bodies, but little experience outside of Chase.
Fortunately we will still have Wilson!
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Old 12-10-2020, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
a question must be addressed. Has the coaching staff mismanaged the roster this year?
Something to watch for, but waaay too early to draw informed conclusions that have any traction.
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
a question must be addressed. Has the coaching staff mismanaged the roster this year?
Posted this on another thread. I just dont see how investing minutes in Wilson is productive. He clearly is overmatched. Seems to me that this minutes would have been better spent on players with higher ceilings.
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I love Jordy...absolutely love that guy.

But we're better and more efficient on the floor without him.

Today's college basketball game is a 35 min race with the other 5 min set aside for clock control and strategy...so speed matters more than strength (did I just say that?? UGH!)! There are certain times/situations when his size/strength is needed, and his assets - size, strength - are best used in those situations. Same with Sissoko.

I like our team when it plays small and runs. I believe that we are more dangerous as a running team and hope that we morph into a running team. Scoring 66 pts for 3-straight games (thanks for that stat Sir SDF) isn't going to win us any important games.

I'm sure Grant knows this. The only question now is: how will he adjust?

King Rollo the Honest...OUT!
Considering minutes played, an easily found stat, and number of times a player touches the ball, not easily known, Jordy is a turnover machine. He has nearly the same amount of turnovers (10) as Ibi and Crutcher (11), who handle the ball significantly more. That's the Jordy liability.

As for the eye test, the offense seems to be much better spaced and flows smoother when only one of Chase or Jordy are down low. Otherwise the lane really gets clogged up. Our offense requires spacing to be effective.

And perhaps not turning the ball over nearly 20 times a game.
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
a question must be addressed. Has the coaching staff mismanaged the roster this year?
No. There isn't any fat on the bone to mismanage.

This is more of a "run what ya brung" roster at this point in time.

Blakney may be getting a nod that he didn't expect to get.
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Posted this on another thread. I just dont see how investing minutes in Wilson is productive. He clearly is overmatched. Seems to me that this minutes would have been better spent on players with higher ceilings.
Since we aren't in practice there may be more than we all know.

AG isn't going to simply develop a "higher ceiling" player because of said ceiling. That may be contributing to others not being on the floor, or it may not.

If Wilson is a warm body in their that isn't turning over the ball, is where is is supposed to be on O and D, and isn't getting completely thrashed on D....then he may be the warm body they need if the guys currently behind them aren't getting it done behind the scenes.
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Posted this on another thread. I just dont see how investing minutes in Wilson is productive. He clearly is overmatched. Seems to me that this minutes would have been better spent on players with higher ceilings.
Yes, but...

CAG will not play guys who aren’t “getting it”. “It” could be his offensive and/or defensive principles. “It” could be the work ethic. “It” could be the academics. “It” could be any number of things. 2017-18 was a great example, as he kept Jordan Pierce and Captain Video parked on the bench, while walk-on Jack Westerfield played meaningful minutes in a handful of conference games. Why? Because Westerfield “got it” and the other 2 yutzes didn’t.

I’m not too worried about that yet. Remember the doghouse that Dwayne was in last year? But with encouragement from Sergeant Landers, and increased focus and effort, he turned it around and became a valuable contributor down the stretch. This year, it’s his turn to be Sergeant Cohill. Hopefully, the effects will be similar.
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:31 AM
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In my other post I did reference that same point regarding practice, etc. So I do acknowledge the unknowns we dont see as fans.

However, the evidence now shows Wilson is a big ZERO on offense. Total Blutarsky....0.0. As in 4 playing against on 5 on the floor. I know what I see, because EVERY time I played basketball, I was the guy no-one would would pass the ball to!
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Old 12-11-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
In my other post I did reference that same point regarding practice, etc. So I do acknowledge the unknowns we dont see as fans.

However, the evidence now shows Wilson is a big ZERO on offense. Total Blutarsky....0.0. As in 4 playing against on 5 on the floor. I know what I see, because EVERY time I played basketball, I was the guy no-one would would pass the ball to!
Just curious what you think you actually see? UD has held every opponent, I believe, to mid 60's in point scoring. Is Wilson not contributing to that a little bit? Maybe the kid is earning minutes in practice by getting every 50/50 ball.

Maybe the actual rest that AG is giving to the starting guards at times during the game by playing Wilson is a benefit to those guards especially this early in the year when actual endurance isn't even built up just yet.

Again, you're talking concrete when you says he's doing nothing offensively because you're strictly looking at stats, imo, and maybe not enough at the abstract attributes the kid brings?

Last edited by steve; 12-11-2020 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 12-11-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
We appear to be a better defensive team. That’s the reason we’ve won 2 of these first 3 games.
I think we've won two games because we played 2 teams rated 150+ by KenPom - and we beat them by a combined 9 points.

We will learn a lot about this team over the next two games.

My biggest concern has been the fact that I thought we came into this season with one of the best backcourts in the country (with a balanced skillset across the 3 of them). And yet the turnovers have been out of control and we can't ever seem to get into our offense - which leads to bad shots (and more turnovers).

I hate to say it, but the bright spots have been Ibi, Chase, and Jordy.

If someone had never seen this team play, and you told them "We have 3 guys we feel good about, one of them is an All-American candidate, and two guys that might bring us down" - that person would have assumed, based on 3 games, that Ibi was the All-American and that Chatman and Crutcher were the two inexperienced guys we were worried about.
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:45 PM
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If turnovers are your metric for backcourt success, you probably shouldn't list Ibi as a bright spot.
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Old 12-11-2020, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bp View Post
If turnovers are your metric for backcourt success, you probably shouldn't list Ibi as a bright spot.
Turnovers are certainly a part of it - and he has struggled there. I think his positive contributions have outweighed his turnovers. His 3.7 TO's are tied for the most on the team (with Jalen), but Ibi offsets that with his 19 points and 5 rebounds. His scoring has also been very efficient (57% FG, 91% FT, 46.7% 3pt).

If he was shooting the same percentages as last year (49.8, 84.5, 39.3) we might be 0-3 right now.

Despite the TO's he has been a bright spot for me.
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Old 12-11-2020, 03:06 PM
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How many of his TOs have been shot clock violations. Not all of those were his fault if I recall correctly, but the ball was in his hand late when the clock expired.
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Old 12-11-2020, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
How many of his TOs have been shot clock violations. Not all of those were his fault if I recall correctly, but the ball was in his hand late when the clock expired.
Shot clocks count as a team turnover, not individual
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Old 12-11-2020, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I love Jordy...absolutely love that guy.

But we're better and more efficient on the floor without him.

Today's college basketball game is a 35 min race with the other 5 min set aside for clock control and strategy...so speed matters more than strength (did I just say that?? UGH!)! There are certain times/situations when his size/strength is needed, and his assets - size, strength - are best used in those situations. Same with Sissoko.

I like our team when it plays small and runs. I believe that we are more dangerous as a running team and hope that we morph into a running team. Scoring 66 pts for 3-straight games (thanks for that stat Sir SDF) isn't going to win us any important games.

I'm sure Grant knows this. The only question now is: how will he adjust?

King Rollo the Honest...OUT!
I totally agree. In fact you must have seen the post that I deleted.

This team with Jordy is ordinary. A different lineup is necessary to become above ordinary.

Just my opinion (too).
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Old 12-11-2020, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Just curious what you think you actually see? UD has held every opponent, I believe, to mid 60's in point scoring. Is Wilson not contributing to that a little bit? Maybe the kid is earning minutes in practice by getting every 50/50 ball.

Maybe the actual rest that AG is giving to the starting guards at times during the game by playing Wilson is a benefit to those guards especially this early in the year when actual endurance isn't even built up just yet.

Again, you're talking concrete when you says he's doing nothing offensively because you're strictly looking at stats, imo, and maybe not enough at the abstract attributes the kid brings?
When I watched the games or replay, he contributes very little on offense. Rarely even setting a screen. Anyway you analyze it, that's 20% of our offensive capacity. Since he's a guard, he's out on the perimeter a majority of the time. As a result, his defender sags into the lane because he's no threat. I just don't see how that helps us. On defense he has one steal in 24 minutes of playing. That's 20% of time for one player over three games. So I'm trying to find those abstract attributes. Should those minutes go to Blakney? He seems to be getting more confident, contributing, and has a higher ceiling. Ibi, Chatman, and Crutch can handle the guard minutes (barring injury). I don't have anything against him, I just don't think there's any evidence that suggest he should be taking minutes from a scholarship player.,

Can't help but wonder if Frazier is headed for a red shirt.

Last edited by Jeff; 12-11-2020 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 12-12-2020, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
I totally agree. In fact you must have seen the post that I deleted.

This team with Jordy is ordinary. A different lineup is necessary to become above ordinary.

Just my opinion (too).
But again, the umbers simply don't support this. Here is what Clayton posted earlier:

Yes Sissoko numbers are not good, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in 28 1/2 minutes against SMU the Flyers were a +8 when Jordy was on the floor. Which means in the 11 1/2 minutes Jordy was on the pine we were a -10.

Against E. Illinios he was +16 in 26 minutes, which means the team was a -14 when Jordy was on the pine, err cushioned folding chair.


So far (in a limited sample) - we are better with him on the court. That's not my opinion - it's the facts. We play winning basketball with him on the court - and losing basketball with him off the court.

If we are going to be good this season, we need to keep him on the floor a little longer and be better with him off the court.
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Old 12-12-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
When I watched the games or replay, he contributes very little on offense. Rarely even setting a screen. Anyway you analyze it, that's 20% of our offensive capacity. Since he's a guard, he's out on the perimeter a majority of the time. As a result, his defender sags into the lane because he's no threat. I just don't see how that helps us. On defense he has one steal in 24 minutes of playing. That's 20% of time for one player over three games. So I'm trying to find those abstract attributes. Should those minutes go to Blakney? He seems to be getting more confident, contributing, and has a higher ceiling. Ibi, Chatman, and Crutch can handle the guard minutes (barring injury). I don't have anything against him, I just don't think there's any evidence that suggest he should be taking minutes from a scholarship player.,

Can't help but wonder if Frazier is headed for a red shirt.
I posted in the game thread that Luke had his appendix removed Thursday. Mulcahey said he was in the recovery process and looking forward to getting back on the court when he is healed.
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Old 12-12-2020, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
But again, the umbers simply don't support this. Here is what Clayton posted earlier:

Yes Sissoko numbers are not good, but that has nothing to do with the fact that in 28 1/2 minutes against SMU the Flyers were a +8 when Jordy was on the floor. Which means in the 11 1/2 minutes Jordy was on the pine we were a -10.

Against E. Illinios he was +16 in 26 minutes, which means the team was a -14 when Jordy was on the pine, err cushioned folding chair.


So far (in a limited sample) - we are better with him on the court. That's not my opinion - it's the facts. We play winning basketball with him on the court - and losing basketball with him off the court.

If we are going to be good this season, we need to keep him on the floor a little longer and be better with him off the court.
I think comparing at the +/- numbers of Jordy and Mo is not fair... imagine what Jordy's +/- numbers would be if he was coming off the bench (and playing most of his minutes with guys like Wilson and Zimi on the court).
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Old 12-12-2020, 02:36 PM
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Anyone know what the return time is for appendix removal? I would think it would only be a couple of weeks.
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Old 12-12-2020, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Anyone know what the return time is for appendix removal? I would think it would only be a couple of weeks.
Depends on the severity and the procedure. If laparoscopically excised it is about 3 weeks. Likely more if they did more invasive surgery, worse still if it ruptured.

Still I assume he’s redshirted and unlikely to play this year. Would be interested to know if anyone has seen enough of his play in practice to determine if he has the ability to contribute at this level yet.
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Old 12-12-2020, 06:46 PM
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The death of my season has been greatly exaggerated
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Old 12-12-2020, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
The death of my season has been greatly exaggerated
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:03 PM
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The "eye test" tells me we are a much better offensive team with Jordy on the bench. I think that CAG has to figure things out. What do I know? Grant gets paid to do so. I do think this Flyer team has shown some balls.
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Anyone know what the return time is for appendix removal? I would think it would only be a couple of weeks.
I had my appendix removed on a Wednesday in 1982 and was told by surgeon I can do anything I please, no restrictions, the following Tuesday. I would be very surprised if almost 39 years later, it takes that much more time, if it wasn't ruptured.
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
The "eye test" tells me we are a much better offensive team with Jordy on the bench. I think that CAG has to figure things out. What do I know? Grant gets paid to do so. I do think this Flyer team has shown some balls.
You are probably right. But we lose defense and rebounding with him out of the game. Is it worth the tradeoff? Probably sometimes, but not most times.
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:08 PM
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I had my appendix removed in 1962. Long time ago I was out of commission for about a month. I would assume that things are vastly different today. At least I hope so
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
I had my appendix removed in 1962. Long time ago I was out of commission for about a month. I would assume that things are vastly different today. At least I hope so
Extrapolating
1962. Ready in a month
1982. Ready in a week
2020. Ready in a day?
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  #64  
Old 12-12-2020, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Don View Post
Extrapolating
1962. Ready in a month
1982. Ready in a week
2020. Ready in a day?
Actually, 2002 ready in a day. 2020, should've been ready to return a week before surgery.
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  #65  
Old 12-12-2020, 08:08 PM
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It’s been mentioned already. Crutcher, Ibi, Johnson, Chatman, Blakney really creates spaces. Add in Weaver next week, Brea (at some point), and some spot & situational duty from Sissoko and Jordy and ride it the rest of the season. We’ll be fine if that is the case. Go Flyers!
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  #66  
Old 12-12-2020, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
I posted in the game thread that Luke had his appendix removed Thursday. Mulcahey said he was in the recovery process and looking forward to getting back on the court when he is healed.
Smells like teen redshirt.
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  #67  
Old 12-12-2020, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Smells like teen redshirt.
Why would anyone redshirt in a free season?
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  #68  
Old 12-12-2020, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Why would anyone redshirt in a free season?
OK, forgot about the impending rule. That's not official until Wednesday, correct?

And if that happens, Weaver is in, and Brea's wrist is better....doesn't seem to add up to too many minutes for Mr. Frazier.
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  #69  
Old 12-12-2020, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy89 View Post
It’s been mentioned already. Crutcher, Ibi, Johnson, Chatman, Blakney really creates spaces. Add in Weaver next week, Brea (at some point), and some spot & situational duty from Sissoko and Jordy and ride it the rest of the season. We’ll be fine if that is the case. Go Flyers!
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Agree. I would also move Crutcher back to the primary ball handler where he played his first three seasons and was on everyone's top PG list heading into the year. Let Chatman focus his energy on being a shutdown defender without also having to run the offense.
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  #70  
Old 12-12-2020, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
OK, forgot about the impending rule. That's not official until Wednesday, correct?

And if that happens, Weaver is in, and Brea's wrist is better....doesn't seem to add up to too many minutes for Mr. Frazier.
No Weds is no sit year for transfers. Free year for all was quite some time ago
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  #71  
Old 12-12-2020, 11:25 PM
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Affirmative. Fingers crossed.

https://247sports.com/Article/college-basketball-D1-Council-to-vote-on-waiver-for-all-2020-21-transfers-156507697/

Last edited by Rudy89; 12-12-2020 at 11:34 PM..
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  #72  
Old 12-13-2020, 10:08 AM
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We only have one game in the next 17 days, so no chance for these guys and any non-starter to get some experience. I hope we get a couple of cake walk games in the next couple of weeks.
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  #73  
Old 12-13-2020, 10:17 AM
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During yesterday’s game, I counted 8-12 missed points in feeds to the post that Obi, Landers, or even Mikesell would have either flushed or fought through and delivered a bucket.

You can see that Crutcher is frustrated with missed opportunities. I’m not suggesting the guards shouldn’t continue to make the pass but they do need to adjust to the players around them. Hopefully, in a month or so, some of those go for buckets.

These entry passes are accounting for some of the increase in turnovers.
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  #74  
Old 12-13-2020, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
During yesterday’s game, I counted 8-12 missed points in feeds to the post that Obi, Landers, or even Mikesell would have either flushed or fought through and delivered a bucket.

You can see that Crutcher is frustrated with missed opportunities. I’m not suggesting the guards shouldn’t continue to make the pass but they do need to adjust to the players around them. Hopefully, in a month or so, some of those go for buckets.

These entry passes are accounting for some of the increase in turnovers.
I distinctly remember 2 turnovers that were charged to Crutcher on entry passes where he made the correct play. The first is where Sissoko didn't roll, and the second was Jordy tripping and falling. He was clearly frustrated after both plays, and have seen him coaching the bigs on the floor to that extent several times this year. Sooner or later the light will come on....hopefully.
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  #75  
Old 12-13-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
During yesterday’s game, I counted 8-12 missed points in feeds to the post that Obi, Landers, or even Mikesell would have either flushed or fought through and delivered a bucket.

You can see that Crutcher is frustrated with missed opportunities. I’m not suggesting the guards shouldn’t continue to make the pass but they do need to adjust to the players around them. Hopefully, in a month or so, some of those go for buckets.

These entry passes are accounting for some of the increase in turnovers.
I know I'm frustrated by missed feeding opportunities, and sometimes that includes Crutcher. We have now played 4 teams with very quick hands, and the lessons should be learned. We can't live on 20 turnovers/game.

As a team, we need to be more crisp with passes, and adjust to the fact that Obi is gone. We are a work in progress and that is clearly our challenge
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  #76  
Old 12-31-2020, 09:59 AM
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Believe it or not. . . I STILL feel good about this team.

Last night we played an awful LaSalle team and lost. OK, not good. We should beat them sleepwalking. Conceded.

But think about this. Chase Johnson announces he's done. A starter leaves the program and AG has, what, a day to come up with a plan? Well, let's just go to the next man up, Blakeney, that's what other programs do.

Blakeney's out with an injury. Next man up?

Weaver, who should finally be starting to figure some things out after some time with the program. What's that? It sounded like you said he's injured too. Sigh. OK, next man up again.

Walk-on Christian Wilson, 6'1" and 160!

Wait, he's not going to play, because we finally have Brea back from injury to play HIS first ever college game. I presume he hasn't practiced much since he hasn't even been dressing for games. So here's another new cog in the machine we're trying to fit together.

Don't worry, we have Jordy anchoring the middle. Except that he was a walking foul machine last night, playing only 16 minutes.

No worries, we'll drop our project Sissoko into the mix. For 19 minutes--more than DOUBLE his average, and by far his highest minutes in a game in his career.

Meaning we'll be forced to play Mustapha spot duty in his first game with this team with almost no time practicing as a group. He's been with the program less than a week and hasn't learned any of the sets yet!! How does that gel a team together on the defensive end? So AG has to play him spot duty. . . meaning play him 36 minutes!!!

This team is not lacking talent. Yes, we're lacking big men who can finish, and somehow Chatman turned into the Scarecrow this year with some of his turnovers (if he only had a brain). And with Chase gone, well that's not a benefit but we CERTAINLY didn't downgrade by picking up Mustapha.

What we need is Blakeney and Weaver to get well and start creating some offense, and for AG to figure out where to hide Jordy on the offensive end. It looked ugly last night, but I honestly don't think we're that far away.
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  #77  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:09 AM
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Good post Gazoo.

Sorta like 2014, we had all the pieces of the puzzle, we just had not figured out yet how to put the puzzle together. A lot of basketball left to be played.
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  #78  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Good post Gazoo.

Sorta like 2014, we had all the pieces of the puzzle, we just had not figured out yet how to put the puzzle together. A lot of basketball left to be played.
I don't get any kind of sense that we "have all the pieces" with this team. And our National Coach of the Year is struggling as well. Our post time out possessions appear awful - be it awfully designed or awfully executed. And he/the staff seem completely oblivious to any in game clock management, 2 for 1 considerations, etc.

We're a mess. Deficiencies surface nearly every game with little evidence of improvement. I'm at a total loss for how frequently we look totally clueless.

All of this said, it won't keep me from tuning in for the next game. Just gotta keep working.
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  #79  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Good post Gazoo.

Sorta like 2014, we had all the pieces of the puzzle, we just had not figured out yet how to put the puzzle together. A lot of basketball left to be played.
2014 season we had the Maui run in our back pocket.

There was no margin for error this year and now this atrocious loss basically ends any At Large hopes and momentum from last year.
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  #80  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
2014 season we had the Maui run in our back pocket.

There was no margin for error this year and now this atrocious loss basically ends any At Large hopes and momentum from last year.
We've had A10 losses in the last 15 years that have been worse (plenty under BG), that we all felt killed our at-large hopes (none on December 30th), only to continue to have chances and opportunities to recover from those losses.

Yes, the margins are thinner this year. But this isn't/wasn't a sky is falling loss., regardless of how ugly it looks and feels the morning after.

Take a deep breath. Plenty of opportunities on the A10 slate to atone for this setback. Just means we 're going to have to steal one more from the Richmond/SLU/VCU pool.
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  #81  
Old 12-31-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I don't get any kind of sense that we "have all the pieces" with this team. And our National Coach of the Year is struggling as well. Our post time out possessions appear awful - be it awfully designed or awfully executed. And he/the staff seem completely oblivious to any in game clock management, 2 for 1 considerations, etc.

We're a mess. Deficiencies surface nearly every game with little evidence of improvement. I'm at a total loss for how frequently we look totally clueless.

All of this said, it won't keep me from tuning in for the next game. Just gotta keep working.
I watched some of last year's games over our holiday hiatus, and we're missing Mikesell and Trey bad! They were our grit, our fire, a lot of defense, a lot of 50/50 ball collectors, and so much more. Their play, in many ways, was our identity!

This year, we just look soft, slow, and utterly "flat" with no identity or flare. Nobody smiles on the sidelines or on the floor. I cannot understand how we maintained our guards but ball movement, passing and turnovers look so much worse. It's mind-boggling. We lost 3 key players, but this looks like a completely different team.

At this point, I'm watching for the sake of player development. I also fear next year could get really, really ugly! In CAG I trust, but I'm not seeing him with any answers to close 2020.

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  #82  
Old 12-31-2020, 01:50 PM
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I'm usually optimistic, but that loss was awful. Consider that our super star Jalen played well, we got about the best we are going to see from Amzil and Sissoko, and average games out of Jordy and Brea.... And we still lost to a terrible A10 team. Defense and rebounding are uninspired, and the turnovers are such a pattern that we should now expect them every night.
Weaver and Blankey can help, but whatever minutes and ball touches they get need to come at the expense of Ibi and Chatman. If our fifth year senior guards can't simply not turn the ball over, then they need to be benched with the same urgency that you bench a freshman. If you need Rodney on the floor for his defense, then run the offense through Jalen.
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  #83  
Old 12-31-2020, 02:16 PM
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The ball just isn't moving on offense. Chatman is a ball killer. Instead of moving the ball quickly he is standing around dribbling. Why? Because Sissoko is never in the right spot, the freshmen aren't timing their cuts correctly, most of the offensive players are playing mechanically (coach said run here, what do I do if that spot isn't open??). There's no flow. So Ibi stands still waiting for the play to develop and Crutcher is left disgusted at watching the show.



It can all look much better, even good, as soon as the timing improves.
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  #84  
Old 12-31-2020, 02:16 PM
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Blame the guards all we want, but the central issue is that we have nothing inside. Mo and Jordy can’t be given the ball because they can’t handle it. That causes the perimeter players to take too many shots and they aren’t alway going to fall. How many dunks did we have last night-? zero seems to be about right and that is at the root of the problem. Unless something radically changes we win about half of the rest of our games.
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  #85  
Old 12-31-2020, 02:30 PM
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I think the main issue is not talent, inside or outside. Right now, what we need is for the players to log meaningful minutes playing together in practice and in games. Team ball will accentuate the positive. The way we are playing now is accentuating the negative and allowing teams to key in on our star players without paying a price. It will come. It just needs to come soon if we are going to be relevant this year.

I think Chatman is getting a lot of criticism after the game yesterday. Some of it is well deserved, but a fair share falls on the other players who are not in the right place at the right time for the offense to function well.
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Old 12-31-2020, 03:51 PM
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Despite the bad loss, I am more optimistic about this team after watching the addition of Amzil and seeing Sissoko play pretty well. The team chemistry is not there yet. We've had a lot of injuries and players coming and going. We had almost no preseason, and a bunch of games cancelled. The normal arc of team development has been slowed by all of these factors.
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  #87  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PerrymanFan View Post
. . . we got about the best we are going to see from Amzil . . .

You can say this after one game?
Lordy.

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Old 01-02-2021, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
You can say this after one game?
Lordy.
The kid put up 22 and 7, do you now expect that every night? Not a knock on him, just saying its fair to say that's his ceiling.

Obi averaged 20 and 7.5 last year, so tell me what you expect out of Amzil this year...
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PerrymanFan View Post
The kid put up 22 and 7, do you now expect that every night? Not a knock on him, just saying its fair to say that's his ceiling.

Obi averaged 20 and 7.5 last year, so tell me what you expect out of Amzil this year...
That’s not what you said. You said that was the best we could expect. How in the world would you, or could you, determine that? He could have games both with more or less production.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:35 PM
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I've been accused many times of being too negative on here. But, and this is rare, I agree with Gazoo. I always expected this team would struggle early and get better as the season progressed, which is always better than the polar opposite. You lose your 1st, 3rd and 4th leading scorers, especially when #1 equals Obi Toppin, you have no idea what to expect other than things aren't going to be nearly as easy.

And no team ever with a record of 4-2 in their first 6 games of the season has lost their opportunity at an at-large bid and neither has this one.

And personally, I think that replacing Johnson with Mustapha is going to be a plus though of course we would prefer to have both. I just never had faith that Chase was going to be reliable game in and game out and I think Mustapha might be. We'll see.

Also, let's remember, the gift that keeps on giving, which is Obi's 2019-2020 season, doesn't really kick in until next year where we get recruits who signed with us based partly on that great season. Though, Mustapha is one of those so...
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  #91  
Old 01-02-2021, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PerrymanFan View Post
The kid put up 22 and 7, do you now expect that every night? Not a knock on him, just saying its fair to say that's his ceiling.

Obi averaged 20 and 7.5 last year, so tell me what you expect out of Amzil this year...
first, let's give the kid a break and just watch
how he develops together.. I agree that yes,
we could have another great one... but there
are things to consider:

Obi was a redshirt freshman, he had an entire
year to practice with the team before his very
first official time on the court... Amzil is NOT
red shirting, and had 3 practices? he was 1 for
4 3 pt shooting..

this may not be his ceiling, if he has a night
where he makes his 3's...

what to expect? how about matching Obi's
stats after his first 7 games, that is not
far fetched I don't think... Obi's first 7 games
as a flyer:
77 pts, avg 11/ppg incredible 34/51 shooting
66% 1 for 1 3 pt shooting...
27 rebounds, just under 4/game
6 assists, just under 1/game
16 turnovers, just over 2/game
6/8 free throws, 75%...

after his first 7 games, Obi had a
real nice run games 8 thru 14...

mustapha's first game:
22 pts 9/14 (64%) 1 for 4 3 pt shooting
3 for 4 FT (75%), 7 reb,
0 assists 3 turnovers...

I look forward to seeing his game develop
games 2 thru 7...

I feel the stats could be very comparable,
hope so!

Go Flyers!
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  #92  
Old 01-02-2021, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
That’s not what you said. You said that was the best we could expect. How in the world would you, or could you, determine that? He could have games both with more or less production.
You're right, instead of focusing on the play to make us better, we should mince words about the bright spot on the team currently. So let me correct my post to assure you that you are right....

"We got about the best we are going to see from Amzil"***

***please note that by this comment is only based on statistical figures, but not based on raw optimism. It is in fact statistically possible that Amzil can average more than 22 points for his career, and in doing so will be the first player to do so in 6 generations. This assessment should in no way deter you from thinking that he is in fact a very good player.

Anything else I can clear up for you?
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Old 01-02-2021, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PerrymanFan View Post
You're right, instead of focusing on the play to make us better, we should mince words about the bright spot on the team currently. So let me correct my post to assure you that you are right....

"We got about the best we are going to see from Amzil"***

***please note that by this comment is only based on statistical figures, but not based on raw optimism. It is in fact statistically possible that Amzil can average more than 22 points for his career, and in doing so will be the first player to do so in 6 generations. This assessment should in no way deter you from thinking that he is in fact a very good player.

Anything else I can clear up for you?
You just changed your original statement which I don’t blame you for doing as it was irrational given a sample size of 1 game. Saying now that he has to average better than his game 1 stats was not what you originally said. If your new statement is what you meant to originally make that is on you. It’s not mincing words.
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  #94  
Old 01-03-2021, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
You just changed your original statement which I don’t blame you for doing as it was irrational given a sample size of 1 game. Saying now that he has to average better than his game 1 stats was not what you originally said. If your new statement is what you meant to originally make that is on you. It’s not mincing words.
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Ok then I'm confused. Help me understand what I said.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by PerrymanFan View Post
Ok then I'm confused. Help me understand what I said.
If I may?

"The kid put up 22 and 7, do you now expect that every night? Not a knock on him, just saying its fair to say that's his ceiling.

I took that to mean he'll never be able to top that in a game. I'm guessing you meant that as him putting together a season though, not sure.

But if you're point was that he's not going to average 22 and 7 his freshman year, you might as well have told us that the sun will rise in the morning because I don't think anyone here believes otherwise.
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  #96  
Old 01-03-2021, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
If I may?

"The kid put up 22 and 7, do you now expect that every night? Not a knock on him, just saying its fair to say that's his ceiling.

I took that to mean he'll never be able to top that in a game. I'm guessing you meant that as him putting together a season though, not sure.

But if you're point was that he's not going to average 22 and 7 his freshman year, you might as well have told us that the sun will rise in the morning because I don't think anyone here believes otherwise.
I wouldn't have thought anyone here believes otherwise either, yet here we are.

Of course he may have a better game, by God let's hope he has many of them in his time here. But if you read that post, which is focused on wanting more out of Watson and Chatman, and want to argue that it's possible for Amzil to play better, then you are mincing words.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:36 AM
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I feel good that we finally scored out of the 60's in regulation. It appeared for the first 7 games, that we would have to count on overtime to do it. Really bad strategy.

But actually we can't depend on a brain-dead coach giving us games with technical fouls to score 70 either.

I'm not sure I feel good about our scoring yet, but i do feel better. After all we did cut the TO's and opponents offensive rebounds, but still barely escaped with a win.

We are destined to win ugly for a spell before we get traction this season.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:43 AM
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Those Triangle and Two and Box and One defenses that GM threw at us shows what disrespect teams have for our inside game. Outside of Moustapha at times, we had better come up with some inside solutions, or teams like VCU and St L will breeze. Before yesterday, teams have already been doubling Jalen and Ibi and not worrying about Chatman or Jordy.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Those Triangle and Two and Box and One defenses that GM threw at us shows what disrespect teams have for our inside game. Outside of Moustapha at times, we had better come up with some inside solutions, or teams like VCU and St L will breeze. Before yesterday, teams have already been doubling Jalen and Ibi and not worrying about Chatman or Jordy.
We saw a lot of that in the BRob days.
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:25 PM
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