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02-17-2021, 08:14 AM
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Seniors
A friend said it best: this team left its heart on a bus in Atlantic City (edit: Brooklyn).
These seniors, and in particular I'm really talking about Crutcher and Ibi (neutral on Chatman, Jordy is giving all he's got--bless his heart), simply don't have a fire in their belly.
There are several reasonable excuses for this:
1. They got right to the precipice of college basketball, we were on our way to a potential Final Four (and these guys thought they could win it all). The rug was literally pulled out from under them standing at the first tournament site. Grant can say what he wants, that is going to hurt for a long time.
2. Now think about it: Crutcher and Ibi play their last games at the highest possible level, then come back this season to see a bunch of skinny, unprepared freshmen. Say what you want, ANYONE with a rational brain would have trouble adjusting to being traded from the Lakers to the Sacramento Kings.
3. Crutcher spent the offseason talking to scouts about his NBA prospects and watching Obi practice with the best athletes in the world. Then he throws a 2-hand bounce pass to Jordy and it hits him in the nuts and Jordy falls down (fouling in the process). Can you imagine how deflating that must be? Like, WTF am I doing here in kindergarten?
4. Ibi realizes his playing career is over, and it's going to end this way not with a national championship at MSU or Dayton. Ibi's giva**** is clearly broken by the same factors as above. He's just not even going after loose balls sometimes. The 6th leading FT shooter in the A10 misses 3 FT's in a row in a 2-point game that allows URI to complete their run. That's nothing but giva****. Or lack of it.
Can we get Trey back as an assistant coach to just scream at people from the bench and in practice? It's not talent, it's heart, which translates into focus. I get it, I'm not mad at the seniors, but I'm concerned they're building bad habits in the younger players.
Last edited by Gazoo; 02-17-2021 at 08:53 AM..
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02-17-2021, 09:06 AM
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You can see the frustration in Jalens body language. And Ibi’s attitude is obvious way too often. A 6-5/Trey with less natural talent or a 6-6 Ibi with much better shooting talent.......would anyone not take Trey? It’s become pretty obvious why Nebraska and Michigan let Jordy and Ibi become dissatisfied enough to leave.
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02-17-2021, 09:47 AM
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I said the other day, I hope at least one of the Class of 21 recruits is a dog. I'll never question Crutcher's effort. But other than Chatman there's no nasty in this team.
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02-17-2021, 09:51 AM
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I think you need to add in the effect of basically ZERO fans allowed. Some guys can create their own energy based on their personalities, upbringing,disrespect, etc. etc. Some need a guy like Obi to create it with bailout plays and ridiculous dunks or a physical presence like Trey Landers who was as good and skilled a HS athlete as you'll find in America, yet, had to find his own niche as a college player based far more on heart and toughness than skill.
Some players need the thousands of UD fans to elevate their energy.Right or wrong, it is what it is. Jalen and, especially, Ibi are laid back people. Alot of the UD players seem to be. The young guys are looking for real leadership. Is it there? Where is it? The moment a player starts playing like the game is an intramural game, as alot of the UD players seem to do, imo, then it's tough to recreate real instinctive energy.
This energy is really needed on the road in a normal year, yet, every game this year, both home and away, is almost like a neutral court game. This offense in alot of ways is no different than a season ago except then you could dick around with the ball for 28 seconds and lob it up to Obi. Ain't no Obi anymore.
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02-17-2021, 10:01 AM
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Regardless of the shortcomings in certain areas, when the seniors leave, baring a couple of miracle freshmen, or the second coming, we will be in a world of hurt next year. The current frosh are about as close to zero as a group can get.
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02-17-2021, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CJ#4
I said the other day, I hope at least one of the Class of 21 recruits is a dog. I'll never question Crutcher's effort. But other than Chatman there's no nasty in this team.
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Agreed. This team lacks mental toughness. AG was quoted last night as saying the same things, ie, rebounding and turnovers, have plagued this team all year, that’s in large part a result of toughness, or a lack thereof.
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02-17-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62
Regardless of the shortcomings in certain areas, when the seniors leave, baring a couple of miracle freshmen, or the second coming, we will be in a world of hurt next year. The current frosh are about as close to zero as a group can get.
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Disagree. We are now seeing what Zimi can be if he’s used properly and given the ball. Amzil will continue to improve. We will be a better team, IMO, because we won’t have the ball dominant players, who when they’re off, make it impossible to be successful.
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02-17-2021, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62
Regardless of the shortcomings in certain areas, when the seniors leave, baring a couple of miracle freshmen, or the second coming, we will be in a world of hurt next year. The current frosh are about as close to zero as a group can get.
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what game were you watching?
Brooks Hall could be heard a couple
times chuckling under his breath when Zimi
scored... he explained to the fans:
if the listeners hear me laugh under my
breath, it is because Zimi just gets more
and more comfortable on a college court.
Brooks then said his ceiling is at or near
the top...
Zimi was the best player on the court, both
teams... if he can become a 10 plus point,
6 plus rebound guy next year, that to me
will be a very reasonable goal...
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02-17-2021, 11:50 AM
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I've been hard on Zimi for sure, but the kid has talent. Same with RJ. They will only get better with experience. I think same for Koby. In a normal world, Koby is a redshirt this year. Well, this year doesn't count, so I think next year he'll be much improved. Amzil will improve, especially with 25 more lbs on his frame. Still think Frazier and Sissoko are gone, and it sure would be nice to pick up one immediately eligible transfer who can bring experience.
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02-17-2021, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
I've been hard on Zimi for sure, but the kid has talent. Same with RJ. They will only get better with experience. I think same for Koby. In a normal world, Koby is a redshirt this year. Well, this year doesn't count, so I think next year he'll be much improved. Amzil will improve, especially with 25 more lbs on his frame. Still think Frazier and Sissoko are gone, and it sure would be nice to pick up one immediately eligible transfer who can bring experience.
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I was thinking the same thing. Can’t see how Frazier and Sissoko stay, unless they don’t mind sitting on the bench. It’s pretty clear we have recruited “over” them. I suspect we get another highly rated big before all is said and done.
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02-17-2021, 02:23 PM
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If these seniors only played with fire last year because we were at the precipice of college basketball and can't play DIVISION 1 basketball the following year with the same fire when their professional lives are also at stake, then maybe we recruited the wrong kind of kid.
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02-17-2021, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111
I was thinking the same thing. Can’t see how Frazier and Sissoko stay, unless they don’t mind sitting on the bench. It’s pretty clear we have recruited “over” them. I suspect we get another highly rated big before all is said and done.
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Not going to count out Sissoko who is the only C on the team next year and one with real size and beef and especially with him having his best game basically his last game he played with 6 boards. Way too small of a resume this season.
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02-17-2021, 03:14 PM
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Wow Just Wow
Originally Posted by steve
I think you need to add in the effect of basically ZERO fans allowed. Some guys can create their own energy based on their personalities, upbringing,disrespect, etc. etc. Some need a guy like Obi to create it with bailout plays and ridiculous dunks or a physical presence like Trey Landers who was as good and skilled a HS athlete as you'll find in America, yet, had to find his own niche as a college player based far more on heart and toughness than skill.
Some players need the thousands of UD fans to elevate their energy.Right or wrong, it is what it is. Jalen and, especially, Ibi are laid back people. Alot of the UD players seem to be. The young guys are looking for real leadership. Is it there? Where is it? The moment a player starts playing like the game is an intramural game, as alot of the UD players seem to do, imo, then it's tough to recreate real instinctive energy.
This energy is really needed on the road in a normal year, yet, every game this year, both home and away, is almost like a neutral court game. This offense in alot of ways is no different than a season ago except then you could dick around with the ball for 28 seconds and lob it up to Obi. Ain't no Obi anymore.
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So UD has players that can only play if they are pumped up by 1,000 of fans in the stands. SO splane to me HOW the other players on team A, B, or C or say for instance Fordham etc. can play better than UD under the very same conditions. You could be implying that the remaining roster of returning Flyers are mentally weak?
Right now we are playing dis-functional 'team' play. These guys are lucky that they don't have 1,000's of fans in the stands and exhibit the level of play that we have seen. They would be boooooooo'ed to tears.
The JOB years were god-awful in a similar fashion and some BG's teams showed the same inability to get a good shot off or run the shot clock down to 8 or less seconds and then didn't know what to do with the ball except throw a pray up. AND those teams had at least a 1,000 fans in the stands.
So let's not blame external goings on to this teams woes. It's all internally driven.
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02-17-2021, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Not going to count out Sissoko who is the only C on the team next year and one with real size and beef and especially with him having his best game basically his last game he played with 6 boards. Way too small of a resume this season.
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Not going to count Sissoko out? Where is he? For all we know, he may have told Grant he is leaving. You do not play a mediocre kid, when he is leaving. He would fit in with next year's four stars like a dog driving Rollo's yacht.
Frazier is a different story. He is way behind physically and mentally, and may enjoy being a role player in a good program.
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02-17-2021, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
I've been hard on Zimi for sure, but the kid has talent. Same with RJ. They will only get better with experience. I think same for Koby. In a normal world, Koby is a redshirt this year. Well, this year doesn't count, so I think next year he'll be much improved. Amzil will improve, especially with 25 more lbs on his frame. Still think Frazier and Sissoko are gone, and it sure would be nice to pick up one immediately eligible transfer who can bring experience.
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Originally Posted by TA111
I was thinking the same thing. Can’t see how Frazier and Sissoko stay, unless they don’t mind sitting on the bench. It’s pretty clear we have recruited “over” them. I suspect we get another highly rated big before all is said and done.
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I agree with you about Frazier. Something was wrong from almost the get go and it could have been his appendix but I can't believe that was the only issue. Appendix surgery doesn't place you down THIS LONG. Now could he have contacted meningitis (kissing disease I think they use to call it when I went to school, LOL) that with the surgery would be a double whammy and hard to get full recovery from.
Did Frazier play a bit in one game? IIR I think he did. Of course, he just may not show much in practice and hasn't earned playing time. Whatever it is, he is almost a forgotten man on the pine.
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02-17-2021, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Not going to count Sissoko out? Where is he? For all we know, he may have told Grant he is leaving. You do not play a mediocre kid, when he is leaving. He would fit in with next year's four stars like a dog driving Rollo's yacht.
Frazier is a different story. He is way behind physically and mentally, and may enjoy being a role player in a good program.
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And how do you come up with you know he's leaving when you just asked the basic question of where is he a sentence before? Could he be injured? Aren't you assuming too much? AG doesn't talk about anyone hardly when they're not on the court or the bench.
So all of a sudden we have players still in HS that are "next years stars" that will guarantee fluid play and consistency? LOL. Hell, you were probably stoked a year ago with "this years" stars". How's that working out?
Last edited by steve; 02-17-2021 at 03:48 PM..
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02-17-2021, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Not going to count Sissoko out? Where is he? For all we know, he may have told Grant he is leaving. You do not play a mediocre kid, when he is leaving. He would fit in with next year's four stars like a dog driving Rollo's yacht.
Frazier is a different story. He is way behind physically and mentally, and may enjoy being a role player in a good program.
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If Mo leaves after this year, what are the rules as far as transfers go? Is there a possibility he'd have to sit next season? If so, I just cannot imagine it's in his best interest to leave unless there's some very deep clashes with CAG. If he did leave, and sat out next year, he would have 4 years eligibility in what would've normally been his senior season.
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02-18-2021, 07:11 AM
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Back to the OP. First, I really do regret the program not finding a way (or trying) to bring Trey back as a Graduate Assistant. This team doesn’t seem to have anyone closely associated with it that will kick @$$ and take names. Trey did that better than just about anyone in recent Flyer memory. This team needs a drill sergeant, and Trey, even as a GradAss, would have filled that role.
I truly feel bad for Crutcher, and I do think he has some fire in his gut, but not in the Trey mold. And yes, you can see the frustration in his body language when he feeds a guy for what would have been a score last year, but the ball gets fumbled due to a lack of alertness or skill, and a sure 2 last year becomes a TO this year.
And I must say that Ibi has disappointed me the most, because of how his GiveASpit is busted. It’s perfectly understandable that the team is disappointed in how last season turned out, but dammit, man! Put on your big boy pants and get back to work! Anyone who knows me knows that I have only the slightest shred of athletic ability, but whenever I got the chance to play any sport, my equalizer was hustle. Rushing the QB in football. Boxing out for rebounds in basketball. Chasing down balls hit in the gap in softball. All of those rely on someone’s motor to kick in, and all you have to do is want it. And, if you don’t want it, then GTF out of the way of someone who does.
OK, rant over (for now).
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02-18-2021, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
And how do you come up with you know he's leaving when you just asked the basic question of where is he a sentence before? Could he be injured? Aren't you assuming too much? AG doesn't talk about anyone hardly when they're not on the court or the bench.
So all of a sudden we have players still in HS that are "next years stars" that will guarantee fluid play and consistency? LOL. Hell, you were probably stoked a year ago with "this years" stars". How's that working out?
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"For all we know" is we have been told nothing, so one might suspect. For you to twist it to "I know he is leaving" is not fair or ethical. Nor is your saying, "I was stoked with this year's stars", since you have no idea what I thought. These guys were two and three star recruits. Next year, they are the highest ranked recruiting class ever with three four stars.
I will lead you to the water. When a player is ill or injured, we have been told in general terms (Frazier, Chatman, Blakney, Weaver, Cohill, Brea). When they are not capable of competing (Frazier), we may not be told, but Sissoko was playing. He played every game until January 31, and now has missed four straight. We usually are not told for three reasons: transferring, grades or rules. You pick.
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02-18-2021, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
"For all we know" is we have been told nothing, so one might suspect. For you to twist it to "I know he is leaving" is not fair or ethical. Nor is your saying, "I was stoked with this year's stars", since you have no idea what I thought. These guys were two and three star recruits. Next year, they are the highest ranked recruiting class ever with three four stars.
I will lead you to the water. When a player is ill or injured, we have been told in general terms (Frazier, Chatman, Blakney, Weaver, Cohill, Brea). When they are not capable of competing (Frazier), we may not be told, but Sissoko was playing. He played every game until January 31, and now has missed four straight. We usually are not told for three reasons: transferring, grades or rules. You pick.
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Well, he's been on the bench through most of his time off right? That to me tosses out grades as it would be more likely that he wouldn't be allowed to be part of any aspect of the team is it were. If it were rules(I'm assuming you mean breaking AG's rules for how he conducts himself during practices and such) that would mean to me he is very defiant for it to last this long and would then most likely fall into the category of transferring.
However, if it was both sides giving up on each other, it seems to me that it would be in boths' interest for him not be involved with the team anymore including being on the bench in street clothes.
My guess would still be injury for the reasons mentioned above and usually when it's anything else, we get smoke before the fire and rumors would have leaked out by now.
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02-18-2021, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
... including being on the bench in street clothes.
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Based on my observation, this is usually a pretty good indicator of an injury/ailment. Let's hope it's that "simple" of an answer.
We have what appears to be a strong class coming in, but that means nothing until they pan out and contribute on the court. Even if they do, Moul will likely be our only "brute" and that should earn him some playing time with Jordy gone. Nobody else on the squad shows any signs of stepping into that role.
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02-20-2021, 07:22 PM
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Please forgive me for a dumb question: I suppose this may have been discussed but I missed it. How did/does this "college basketball eligibility" affect the Seniors? For example, could Chatman come back next year if he hadn't played 50% of the games this season? They've all finished their 4 years, right, though their eligibility to reach their 4 years was extended?
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02-20-2021, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Schebby
Please forgive me for a dumb question: I suppose this may have been discussed but I missed it. How did/does this "college basketball eligibility" affect the Seniors? For example, could Chatman come back next year if he hadn't played 50% of the games this season? They've all finished their 4 years, right, though their eligibility to reach their 4 years was extended?
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The simplest way to explain it is that everybody who played college basketball this season, has 4 other seasons of eligibility(counting past and future). This season does not count toward the 4 years of eligibility.
However, I doubt there will be many players throughout the country taking advantage of the extra season and I doubt there will be any on the Flyers. Chatman would seem logical if anyone does due to injuries, but remember, that would make next year his 6th in school.
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02-20-2021, 09:29 PM
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Rollo has a yacht?
durn.....)
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02-20-2021, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015
Rollo has a yacht?
durn.....)
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Bayliner...he thinks he has a yacht.
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02-21-2021, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
However, I doubt there will be many players throughout the country taking advantage of the extra season and I doubt there will be any on the Flyers.
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I am interested to see how this pans out. The consensus seems to be that not many will come back, but I am 20 years removed from college and would come back for an extra year now if I could. Not sure why so many think nobody will come back (not just at UD). I suspect there may be more returning players across the country than many think.
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02-21-2021, 08:40 AM
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Arch on the subject of this thread—the seniors:
https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...DYQELUEWVCLVU/
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02-21-2021, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by superfan99
I am interested to see how this pans out. The consensus seems to be that not many will come back, but I am 20 years removed from college and would come back for an extra year now if I could. Not sure why so many think nobody will come back (not just at UD). I suspect there may be more returning players across the country than many think.
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Yep, some people are just saying this with no rhyme or reason as to why people would or wouldn't come back and just how important some of those reasons are to specific players.First off, a player can improve their game. By improving your game maybe you have a much better chance to make money in this game going forward.Secondly, who wants to leave playing in front of basically nobody? There are a lot of good enthusiastic basketball schools that have a fanatical backing and a lot of players just don't want to go out playing basically an intramural year of basketball with just a couple hundred fans in the stands. There are plenty of players that don't want to go out this way. Third, plenty of players will want to take advantage of another free year of education in pursuing their degree or getting a master's degree. And fourth, without knowing a specific schools situation in regards to just how good they can be next year, many coaches will want a player or two from their team to come back to assume leadership roles and to just make that team better. Some schools are top heavy in seniors and I can see why their coach would like to mesh a couple of players that played this year and have them take advantage of coming back another year just to mesh with the youth in that program going forward.
A main reason that many people are skeptical of players taking advantage of this rule is that players want to go out and make money as it's their time to enter the real world. Naturally, some players will feel this way and don't want to go back to school because that's not what they're there for. But there are plenty of others that will sit down and take a hard look at what the benefits are in this. I think there will be more players than we assume that will come back and take advantage of this. It can certainly be a win-win for both the player and the school in many instances.
Last edited by steve; 02-21-2021 at 09:24 AM..
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02-21-2021, 10:03 AM
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I don’t think we’ll see many seniors return. If you’re a difference maker on a D1 team you are almost guaranteed making good money oversees. Additionally, as pertains to the Flyers, 3 of the 4 have already redshirted and are 23-24 years old. They just aren’t staying especially after celebrating Senior night.
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02-21-2021, 11:13 AM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Figstats Fact-Check
- "Crucher has started 113 games." - FALSE - He's started 104 games. He's played in 113 games. John Crosby started the 9 games Crutcher did not.
- "He now has 1,529 career points, 17th on the list of UD's all-time top scorers." - FALSE - 1,529 is correct but that is currently 18th on the all-time list.
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02-21-2021, 11:27 AM
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Arch needs a copy editor. Oh wait ... newspapers have been laying them off left and right. I used to joke about newspapers — and I LOVE newspapers — as places where athletes can grow from 6-7 to 6-9 in the space of five paragraphs.
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02-21-2021, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111
I don’t think we’ll see many seniors return. If you’re a difference maker on a D1 team you are almost guaranteed making good money oversees. Additionally, as pertains to the Flyers, 3 of the 4 have already redshirted and are 23-24 years old. They just aren’t staying especially after celebrating Senior night.
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exactly. And let's add there's an ethical part of this too. Players were recruited with at least some expectations that they aren't going to have the rug pulled out from under them with unplanned upper-classmen taking their playing time. If Chatman staying is at the expense of gaining experience for Brea, Frazier, Smith, Greer, Cohill or RJ that could cause unwanted issues going forward. Especially Brea and Frazier who probably knew they wouldn't get much playing time their freshman seasons but would feel they are being thrown under the bus their sophomore seasons to bring back a Chatman.
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02-21-2021, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
exactly. And let's add there's an ethical part of this too. Players were recruited with at least some expectations that they aren't going to have the rug pulled out from under them with unplanned upper-classmen taking their playing time. If Chatman staying is at the expense of gaining experience for Brea, Frazier, Smith, Greer, Cohill or RJ that could cause unwanted issues going forward. Especially Brea and Frazier who probably knew they wouldn't get much playing time their freshman seasons but would feel they are being thrown under the bus their sophomore seasons to bring back a Chatman.
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I have a feeling Luke is moving on
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02-21-2021, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
I have a feeling Luke is moving on
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What is that feeling based on? Anything substantial or just the amount of playing time he had this season? If it's the latter, you could've said the same about Cohill and Trey during their freshman seasons and would've been wrong.
Anyway, let's say Frazier moves on, that still leaves Weaver, Cohill, Brea, Smith, Greer and RJ vying for playing time and it wouldn't be fair to any of them to have Chatman come back and push them down the ladder. If Chatman wishes to play a big leadership role with someone, he's probably going to have to find a different basketball program that's as, if not more, prestigious as UD's and that needs a PG to complete them.
Seriously, this free year is not going to be taken advantage of as much as fans are wishing it so. Remember, this wouldn't only effect next year, but the next 4 years. And it's just not worth it to mess with recruiting classes for coaches, even if it does improve their team a little for one season.
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02-21-2021, 03:00 PM
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We need 2 transfers who are battle ready and can score. There will plenty of openings.
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02-22-2021, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
What is that feeling based on? Anything substantial or just the amount of playing time he had this season? If it's the latter, you could've said the same about Cohill and Trey during their freshman seasons and would've been wrong.
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Cohill averaged 15 mpg over 33 games his freshman year. Trey averaged 5.8 mpg over 9 games his freshman year. Frazier has played a total of 6 minutes over one game. That's a little bit different, especially than Cohill.
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02-22-2021, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Cohill averaged 15 mpg over 33 games his freshman year. Trey averaged 5.8 mpg over 9 games his freshman year. Frazier has played a total of 6 minutes over one game. That's a little bit different, especially than Cohill.
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Different yes, but also the circumstances too. Frazier didn't get early playing time and one assumption was that he wasn't well, then his appendectomy happened and we don't know if that was a late diagnosis. By the time he was finally ready to play, he might just be too far behind due to illness to have a role this season. WE DON'T know, but it's plausible. Weaver's sudden availability probably also pushed him out of the rotation. We will be losing 3 guards most likely and gaining 3 so we really don't know what his planned role will be. But to automatically assume he's transferring based on his playing time is short-sighted imo.
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02-22-2021, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Different yes, but also the circumstances too. Frazier didn't get early playing time and one assumption was that he wasn't well, then his appendectomy happened and we don't know if that was a late diagnosis. By the time he was finally ready to play, he might just be too far behind due to illness to have a role this season. WE DON'T know, but it's plausible. Weaver's sudden availability probably also pushed him out of the rotation. We will be losing 3 guards most likely and gaining 3 so we really don't know what his planned role will be. But to automatically assume he's transferring based on his playing time is short-sighted imo.
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Frazier didn’t even get in during garbage time vs St. Louis. Tells me he has very limited likelyhood of playing here.
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02-22-2021, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
Frazier didn’t even get in during garbage time vs St. Louis. Tells me he has very limited likelyhood of playing here.
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Are you really that dense? Seriously?
How much garbage time was there? Brea got 2 minutes, and get this, Very Little SENIOR Camron Greer got 1 minute. I don't know much about Greer but by his size I'm guessing he's a walk-on PG and that's the same position Frazier plays. And being it was Senior Night, well, I'll let you figure out the rest.
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02-22-2021, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
Are you really that dense? Seriously?
How much garbage time was there? Brea got 2 minutes, and get this, Very Little SENIOR Camron Greer got 1 minute. I don't know much about Greer but by his size I'm guessing he's a walk-on PG and that's the same position Frazier plays. And being it was Senior Night, well, I'll let you figure out the rest.
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1 appearance... one... he’s gone. Joining the conga line of Frankie, Jordan Davis, Crosby, X Williams, not everyone is cut out for this level.
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02-22-2021, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07
1 appearance... one... he’s gone. Joining the conga line of Frankie, Jordan Davis, Crosby, X Williams, not everyone is cut out for this level.
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All of those mentioned are different other than Frankie. Can you figure out what that is?
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02-23-2021, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Cohill averaged 15 mpg over 33 games his freshman year. Trey averaged 5.8 mpg over 9 games his freshman year. Frazier has played a total of 6 minutes over one game. That's a little bit different, especially than Cohill.
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And some of this dialogue has some of the same rhetoric that was said about Sissoko who many assumed he was in the doghouse, had grade issues, was a malcontent, won't be in the rotation next year and/or needs to transfer. How are all those assumptions working out considering we now find out the kid has been hurt and needs surgery.
So you really think that Trey's situation was worse than Frazier's? Frazier was sick/hurt well over half this season.Add in the games UD was in that were tightly contested and fighting for each and every win that they could get you just don't throw in a kid that missed the time he did. Hell, the game he did play in he had two steals and got to the FT line. Plus we have no idea how he is now and if Grant simply told him to get healthy and let's start from scratch next year.
Trey played in 9 games out of 31-32 games or whatever it was. Plus, he was visibly upset and let it be known. To me that is a far bigger scream that there's a real possibility that he's transferring than Frazier who hasn't said boo.
This has been a crazy year for all these players. UD could be losing a total of 5 players off the roster as it stood at the beginning of this season if you include Chase Johnson with 3 of them being guards. I don't care who is coming in next year that is very intriguing I'd bet to Frazier. I always like to side on the "I don't know" aspect unless we really do know the facts.
Last edited by steve; 02-23-2021 at 10:50 AM..
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02-23-2021, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by steve
And some of this dialogue has some of the same rhetoric that was said about Sissoko who many assumed he was in the doghouse, had grade issues, was a malcontent, won't be in the rotation next year and/or needs to transfer. How are all those assumptions working out considering we now find out the kid has been hurt and needs surgery.
So you really think that Trey's situation was worse than Frazier's? Frazier was sick/hurt well over half this season.Add in the games UD was in that were tightly contested and fighting for each and every win that they could get you just don't throw in a kid that missed the time he did. Hell, the game he did play in he had two steals and got to the FT line. Plus we have no idea how he is now and if Grant simply told him to get healthy and let's start from scratch next year.
Trey played in 9 games out of 31-32 games or whatever it was. Plus, he was visibly upset and let it be known. To me that is a far bigger scream that there's a real possibility that he's transferring than Frazier who hasn't said boo.
This has been a crazy year for all these players. UD could be losing a total of 5 players off the roster as it stood at the beginning of this season if you include Chase Johnson with 3 of them being guards. I don't care who is coming in next year that is very intriguing I'd bet to Frazier. I always like to side on the "I don't know" aspect unless we really do know the facts.
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I have never said anything about Frazier transferring, that was somebody else. I was just pointing out that his situation so far is not like Trey and especially not like Cohill, who played a lot as a freshman. Plus didn't we find out Trey had a sports hernia his freshman year, yet he still played more than Frazier has?
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02-24-2021, 08:20 PM
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I'm sorry. Seniors with a fire in the belly don't give up 18 3's. They just don't.
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02-24-2021, 08:26 PM
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Im ready for this group of seniors to move on. It’s time to reset with a new group of players. It’s not working, looking forward to a brighter future.
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02-25-2021, 06:58 AM
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Really disappointed that this group of Seniors is not a cohesive unit, but rather seems to be a collection of individuals. I mean, even with the “poisoned well” that was our team chemistry from the midway point of the 2015-16 season until the end of the following season, Scoochie, Kyle, and Kendall were a unified group. I’m not seeing that kind of unity with our current Seniors.
And the thing that’s upsetting me the most about CAG this season is, when he came in 4 years ago, he seemed to have a bit of Norman Dale in him, where if you didn’t play (and, presumably, practice) the right way, you didn’t see the court. “The right way” seemed to involve hustling and playing smart. And here we are, 4 years later, and we see a team that doesn’t consistently hustle or play smart. We’re almost back to the “systematic substitution” days of BG, except there seems to be no system to the substitutions (or the lack thereof). It’s as if CAG feels sorry that the Seniors didn’t get the taste of The Dance last year, and he’s giving them an exceedingly long leash as a result. In the process, we’re losing the habits and disciplines that led to 29-2. And that’s what concerns me the most.
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02-25-2021, 08:52 AM
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T-Bone, well made points. I mentioned this last night-AG won’t bench his seniors even when they are hurting the team. I don’t understand this. Sometimes you just have to sit guys if they’re not producing.
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02-25-2021, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Really disappointed that this group of Seniors is not a cohesive unit, but rather seems to be a collection of individuals. I mean, even with the “poisoned well” that was our team chemistry from the midway point of the 2015-16 season until the end of the following season, Scoochie, Kyle, and Kendall were a unified group. I’m not seeing that kind of unity with our current Seniors.
And the thing that’s upsetting me the most about CAG this season is, when he came in 4 years ago, he seemed to have a bit of Norman Dale in him, where if you didn’t play (and, presumably, practice) the right way, you didn’t see the court. “The right way” seemed to involve hustling and playing smart. And here we are, 4 years later, and we see a team that doesn’t consistently hustle or play smart. We’re almost back to the “systematic substitution” days of BG, except there seems to be no system to the substitutions (or the lack thereof). It’s as if CAG feels sorry that the Seniors didn’t get the taste of The Dance last year, and he’s giving them an exceedingly long leash as a result. In the process, we’re losing the habits and disciplines that led to 29-2. And that’s what concerns me the most.
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Jalen gave everything he had to give. But they had to carry this substitution thing as far as they could--no bench. 39 minutes/game finally got to him. Ibi proved over and over that he is a 2/3. Trying to talk your way into believing you had a Chase, Trey, Ryan, healthy Chatman waiting to be tapped is fools gold.
No magic substitution formula was going to make up for the lack of experience that we were faced with. Yes, we were able to rally our talent for stretches, but mostly we were a win one, lose one, team this season. And it's why we are unlikely to make noise in the Tournament. Too thin, too many minutes for our best players.
I won't be surprised at whatever game we bring against the Bonnies. That's who we are this season.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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02-25-2021, 10:17 AM
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I just think overall this has been a very disappointing season for a team with the "best backcourt in the country"....
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02-25-2021, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Really disappointed that this group of Seniors is not a cohesive unit, but rather seems to be a collection of individuals. I mean, even with the “poisoned well” that was our team chemistry from the midway point of the 2015-16 season until the end of the following season, Scoochie, Kyle, and Kendall were a unified group. I’m not seeing that kind of unity with our current Seniors.
And the thing that’s upsetting me the most about CAG this season is, when he came in 4 years ago, he seemed to have a bit of Norman Dale in him, where if you didn’t play (and, presumably, practice) the right way, you didn’t see the court. “The right way” seemed to involve hustling and playing smart. And here we are, 4 years later, and we see a team that doesn’t consistently hustle or play smart. We’re almost back to the “systematic substitution” days of BG, except there seems to be no system to the substitutions (or the lack thereof). It’s as if CAG feels sorry that the Seniors didn’t get the taste of The Dance last year, and he’s giving them an exceedingly long leash as a result. In the process, we’re losing the habits and disciplines that led to 29-2. And that’s what concerns me the most.
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When I supervised managers I expected them to handle the people under them. It was the managers job to see that his people got the job done and done right.
I have now heard Grant mention at least 4 times that he didn't prepare his players well, he had them in the wrong positions, the players didn't come to play, on ..... and on .... and on.
If I had a manager tell me something similar 3 times, I wouldn't be thinking of getting rid of the people under that manager. No, I would seriously consider getting rid of the manager first.
Sorry to say that. It may sound strong but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It's his job to see what needs to happen and if it's not happening then actions need to be taken. Seniors or no seniors, good guys or not, allowing the same players to do the same thing (which isn't working) is not a recipe for success.
If Grant is 'protecting' his players and taking the blame then his own future is in peril. The players may feel a bit insulated if the coach is willing to fall on the sword for them. Then that is a major issue to move forward with.
Yes Grant may be limited in personnel but maybe you got to start (this late in the season ugh!. Too Late!) sitting people for a game and put another player in the spot. The team can't look much worse than they already have shown. I mean it can't can it?
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02-25-2021, 11:07 AM
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I doubt that AG's future is "in peril". He is here long haul, a couple of idiot posters not withstanding.
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02-25-2021, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62
I doubt that AG's future is "in peril". He is here long haul, a couple of idiot posters not withstanding.
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I'm not advocating for firing Grant now but a couple more years of this? Yes he could/should be in peril.
So your fine for what? 10 years of mediocracy. OK OK once every 5 years we are in contention to be in the NCAA. Yes sounds about an acceptable level for everyone.
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02-25-2021, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
I'm not advocating for firing Grant now but a couple more years of this? Yes he could/should be in peril.
So your fine for what? 10 years of mediocracy. OK OK once every 5 years we are in contention to be in the NCAA. Yes sounds about an acceptable level for everyone.
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Ridiculous and idiotic. The guy has had a bad year and you're assuming/speculating "what if" another couple bad years????Good god half you guys should take the 24 hour rule and not post if at all with comments like this.
AG has been amazing the past two seasons. They have a cluster-filled 2020 season with tons of stuff going wrong even outside of BB. He's got some solid young guys growing now with a tremendous class coming in. The guy ain't going anywhere and speculating on "another couple years" of this is plain stupid.
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02-25-2021, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
I just think overall this has been a very disappointing season for a team with the "best backcourt in the country"....
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That quote had to be from a blind fan from out of Montgomery County before Labor Day.
Crutcher was sorely missing Obi.
Ibi is not a point guard,
and Chatman couldn't stay healthy on the court.
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02-25-2021, 11:39 AM
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The Fire brigade obviously have forgotten that Grant was the NATIONAL coach of the year less than 12 months ago. You don't fire that guy anytime soon. The ones that are in that camp are delusionary and just want to still up crap because they had nothing they could complain about last year.
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02-25-2021, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
That quote had to be from a blind fan from out of Montgomery County before Labor Day.
Crutcher was sorely missing Obi.
Ibi is not a point guard,
and Chatman couldn't stay healthy on the court.
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Look it up on this board, and apparently there is more than one blind fan from Montgomery County then.
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02-25-2021, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Look it up on this board, and apparently there is more than one blind fan from Montgomery County then.
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If it is posed on Pride, it must be true. The wisdom of the fans is above reproach.
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02-25-2021, 12:19 PM
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Some folks out here taking some cheap, ill-advised shots at some players. Questioning some guys' heart and desire? Suggesting they don't care. I'm not buying it.
Some extreme cheap shots at Crutcher, suggesting he's "not into it", "doesn't want to be out there", is not "mixing with or handling well Chatman's return to the lineup", "shows no leadership". I'm not buying an ounce of it.
Has Crutcher been a little off and made some uncharacteristic mistakes? Sure. His three-point shot seems a little off and not nearly as deadly as it was just a few weeks ago. He's made some poor decisions/passes that you don't typically see. Certainly not with the frequency we've seen.
I've not observed any type of body language that suggests he and/or or Chatman have any kind of issue with each other.
As far as Crutcher's leadership, he's not the fiery rah rah guy. But if you look at how he's conducting himself in dead ball situations and free throw huddles, he's been very active vocally, particularly with the younger players - explaining what he saw or was thinking, as well instructing what a player perhaps should have done in a certain sequence.
I was as frustrated as anybody last night. Our defense was poor and we seemingly had no answers. St. Joes had themselves a day, particularly Rudy Ruettiger (Daly) and the short shorts dude who had a career night. I look forward to their inevitable 5-25 3-point performance in an early exit from the A10 tourney.
I'm not quitting on this team. I will be watching with anticipation that we can string together a run in Richmond and find enough consistency to scratch out a few wins in a row and make an unlikely appearance in the Finals. It's unlikely, and I can keep it real. But I've seen enough good things from this team to know that there's some capability there. And I've seen enough inconsistency from this team to know that I don't know what I'm going to get.
Be Lowd. Wear Red. And don't be udscott.
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02-25-2021, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by John C.
The Fire brigade obviously have forgotten that Grant was the NATIONAL coach of the year less than 12 months ago. You don't fire that guy anytime soon. The ones that are in that camp are delusionary and just want to still up crap because they had nothing they could complain about last year.
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I'm not staying at that campground, heck I didn't even go fishing that weekend let alone camping.
Which is why I'm looking at you, seniors. We lost to Fordham earlier in the year 55-54. Fordham would have sent that game into overtime BASED SOLELY ON THE FIRST HALF last night. We gave up 54 points in the first half!!!
Grant didn't forget how to coach from last year to this year, and Obi isn't the difference between losing to Fordham twice and beating them twice. Our freshmen 4's and 5's score 39 points and our senior guards give up 18 3's. I don't get it. There's just no fire.
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02-25-2021, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by John C.
The Fire brigade obviously have forgotten that Grant was the NATIONAL coach of the year less than 12 months ago. You don't fire that guy anytime soon. The ones that are in that camp are delusionary and just want to still up crap because they had nothing they could complain about last year.
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There's literally 1 person in that brigade.
For some reason people here think the guy who is being paid $2,000,000 should be free from criticism, all while taking cheap shots at the 18-21 year olds. The poll that was posted last night is embarrassing and pathetic
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02-25-2021, 06:03 PM
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Ridiculous and idiotic? Maybe. But lets parse this out before you get your panties in another tight wad.
Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
When I supervised managers I expected them to handle the people under them. It was the managers job to see that his people got the job done and done right.
I have now heard Grant mention at least 4 times that he didn't prepare his players well, he had them in the wrong positions, the players didn't come to play, on ..... and on .... and on.
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I will assume that those of you who have managed managers understand the first sentence. In the business world if you can't rely on your managers and they keep doing what they are doing, your own job may be in peril.
The second sentence I believe is also true. I think I've heard it said after games like this. Last nite was not the first time. So the following sentence just makes clear that it's coaches job to take any and all actions necessary to correct the situation. IF it's him fine, IF its a player or two then that's fine also.
Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
It's his job to see what needs to happen and if it's not happening then actions need to be taken. Seniors or no seniors, good guys or not, allowing the same players to do the same thing (which isn't working) is not a recipe for success.:
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Keeping on doing the same thing that is not working is NOT a recipe for success.
Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
If Grant is 'protecting' his players and taking the blame then his own future is in peril. The players may feel a bit insulated if the coach is willing to fall on the sword for them. Then that is a major issue to move forward with.
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So lets look at the sentence above. IF coach is protecting his players and blaming himself that only starts to beg the questions about the coach himself. Im not advocating throwing players under the bus but you have to show the outside world that if a player isn't playing to his potential he sits.
Placing the blame on yourself and not getting the issues fixed is a condition for one's job to be 'in peril'. I did not state or imply that coach was 'in peril' today, tomorrow or next year, but if players and future players feel insulated with the coach's trait to fall on a sword that characteristic can lead to his job being in peril.
Originally Posted by UD62
I doubt that AG's future is "in peril". He is here long haul, a couple of idiot posters not withstanding.
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So then UD62 decides/doubts AG's future is in peril. Again I said IF at least twice in the last sentence. UD62 is certain that it couldn't will not ever happen. Not now, not in the future. OK opinion taken. However, I felt the need to respond to such.
Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
I'm not advocating for firing Grant now but a couple more years of this? Yes he could/should be in peril.
So your fine for what? 10 years of mediocracy. OK OK once every 5 years we are in contention to be in the NCAA. Yes sounds about an acceptable level for everyone.
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I did think it's a bit much to think IF the current situation folds into the next couple years that we would just accept it. After all our coach is here for the long haul don't you know.
So just as UD62 was certain of his opinion I am certain that IF and Could and May (not the player) can impact the program either positively or sadly negatively.
We shall see. AND OH by the way all those teams like Gonzaga who are winning hand over fist have faced some of the same issues in Covid atmosphere as UD. But their where they are and we are where we are.
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02-25-2021, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
Ridiculous and idiotic? Maybe. But lets parse this out before you get your panties in another tight wad.
I will assume that those of you who have managed managers understand the first sentence. In the business world if you can't rely on your managers and they keep doing what they are doing, your own job may be in peril.
The second sentence I believe is also true. I think I've heard it said after games like this. Last nite was not the first time. So the following sentence just makes clear that it's coaches job to take any and all actions necessary to correct the situation. IF it's him fine, IF its a player or two then that's fine also.
Keeping on doing the same thing that is not working is NOT a recipe for success.
So lets look at the sentence above. IF coach is protecting his players and blaming himself that only starts to beg the questions about the coach himself. Im not advocating throwing players under the bus but you have to show the outside world that if a player isn't playing to his potential he sits.
Placing the blame on yourself and not getting the issues fixed is a condition for one's job to be 'in peril'. I did not state or imply that coach was 'in peril' today, tomorrow or next year, but if players and future players feel insulated with the coach's trait to fall on a sword that characteristic can lead to his job being in peril.
So then UD62 decides/doubts AG's future is in peril. Again I said IF at least twice in the last sentence. UD62 is certain that it couldn't will not ever happen. Not now, not in the future. OK opinion taken. However, I felt the need to respond to such.
I did think it's a bit much to think IF the current situation folds into the next couple years that we would just accept it. After all our coach is here for the long haul don't you know.
So just as UD62 was certain of his opinion I am certain that IF and Could and May (not the player) can impact the program either positively or sadly negatively.
We shall see. AND OH by the way all those teams like Gonzaga who are winning hand over fist have faced some of the same issues in Covid atmosphere as UD. But their where they are and we are where we are.
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It’s not real effective to support your stance using your own posts.
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02-25-2021, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71
When I supervised managers I expected them to handle the people under them. It was the managers job to see that his people got the job done and done right.
I have now heard Grant mention at least 4 times that he didn't prepare his players well, he had them in the wrong positions, the players didn't come to play, on ..... and on .... and on.
If I had a manager tell me something similar 3 times, I wouldn't be thinking of getting rid of the people under that manager. No, I would seriously consider getting rid of the manager first.
Sorry to say that. It may sound strong but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It's his job to see what needs to happen and if it's not happening then actions need to be taken. Seniors or no seniors, good guys or not, allowing the same players to do the same thing (which isn't working) is not a recipe for success.
If Grant is 'protecting' his players and taking the blame then his own future is in peril. The players may feel a bit insulated if the coach is willing to fall on the sword for them. Then that is a major issue to move forward with.
Yes Grant may be limited in personnel but maybe you got to start (this late in the season ugh!. Too Late!) sitting people for a game and put another player in the spot. The team can't look much worse than they already have shown. I mean it can't can it?
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I have no facts to support the following statement, but I do believe that Grant is falling on his sword to some degree with this Senior class. They were the guys who bought what he was selling as a new coach with no track record (Crutcher) or a losing record (Watson, Chatman, and Tshimanga), and he wants to reward their belief in his vision for the program. I get that. But they then need to reward his faith in them by playing the game the way last year’s team played with regard to cohesiveness, teamwork, and camaraderie. Right now, I’m not seeing it.
I guess what I’m saying is, CAG was National COY last year, and his most experienced players should be doing everything possible to help him succeed this year. I don’t see that happening.
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03-01-2021, 09:38 PM
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The more I watch, the more I feel the same way. The seniors are just not motivated. I'm not blaming them, I'm not mad at them, it's been a really crappy situation. It just is.
When we play better teams they show up. Mississippi State, Ole Miss, a nail biter against SMU very early in the season (5 guys played 30 minutes), Davidson, St. Bonnie, St. Louis (2x), George Mason is ahead of us in the standings and we beat them twice or they'd be in 2nd place.
But they just can't generate the emotion to play bad teams. Fordham (2x), LaSalle, St. Joe, split with a weak Duquesne team and a worse Rhode Island team.
The only teams to beat us in the conference are below us in the standings. Except freaking VCU who just has our number.
You like to say you'd do better. Just don't be so sure. It's disappointing for us fans but I can't "hate" them for it. It's just disappointing.
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03-01-2021, 10:03 PM
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Shame on them if getting in the NCAA tournament is not enough to generate motivation for them against everybody.
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03-02-2021, 10:36 AM
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It is silly how we as fans judge motivation of players from our view in our living room, or even in the arena. I have been guilty. If you have ever played and/or coached any sport, you know the level of motivation is not the same every time. Just isn't, and no one has ever been able to find the key to that one. The biggest reason is what we sum up in one word, motivation, involves a plethora of things, most not controllable by people or coaches. Secondly, it involves multiple people. How do multiple people get on the same wave length. Thirdly, it involves individual players successes. Ibi hits his first two threes yesterday and goes on to play an excellent, motivated game. Ibi in other games misses badly early and sinks to where he looks unmotivated.
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03-02-2021, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
It is silly how we as fans judge motivation of players from our view in our living room, or even in the arena. I have been guilty. If you have ever played and/or coached any sport, you know the level of motivation is not the same every time. Just isn't, and no one has ever been able to find the key to that one. The biggest reason is what we sum up in one word, motivation, involves a plethora of things, most not controllable by people or coaches. Secondly, it involves multiple people. How do multiple people get on the same wave length. Thirdly, it involves individual players successes. Ibi hits his first two threes yesterday and goes on to play an excellent, motivated game. Ibi in other games misses badly early and sinks to where he looks unmotivated.
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Ibi ALWAYS seems unmotivated. And this isn't to suggest that he IS unmotivated, in any way. He's not a very aggressive rebounder and typically seems to be a half step late to loose balls. Add in the fact that he pretty much plays "emotionless, expressionless" basketball, and you get a number of folks suggest he's unmotivated. I'm not buying it.
I LOVE the fact that Ibi, our best sharp-shooter, is rarely rattled and never animated. While Crutcher is slightly more animated (we at least get some facial expressions and occasional body language reactions from him, I LOVE that Crutch never appears rattled either. While we want them to be fiery, like we saw from Trey, we have to take the good that comes with seemingly always being "under control" of their emotions throughout the game.
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03-02-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
Ibi ALWAYS seems unmotivated. And this isn't to suggest that he IS unmotivated, in any way. He's not a very aggressive rebounder and typically seems to be a half step late to loose balls. Add in the fact that he pretty much plays "emotionless, expressionless" basketball, and you get a number of folks suggest he's unmotivated. I'm not buying it.
I LOVE the fact that Ibi, our best sharp-shooter, is rarely rattled and never animated. While Crutcher is slightly more animated (we at least get some facial expressions and occasional body language reactions from him, I LOVE that Crutch never appears rattled either. While we want them to be fiery, like we saw from Trey, we have to take the good that comes with seemingly always being "under control" of their emotions throughout the game.
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As long as Ibi hits his rainbow three pointers I don't care what kind of personality he exhibits. I'm sure all of us would like for him to play with the personality and enthusiasm of a RJ Blakney but that is just not going to happen! Sometimes Ibi probably contributes to giving Anthony Grant gray hair with some of his turnovers but lately Jalen has been turning it over more frequently also! Chatman always gives his best on defense and we know what we are going to get from him on offense but we will only go as far as Ibi and Jalen take us for the remainder of the season! I hope they both can recoup the type of performances they gave us in the NonCon. Crutcher needs to become Clutcher for four or more games!
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03-05-2021, 07:48 PM
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Crutcher all time great; go out and make some good European $.
Ibi definitely had his moments both ways; may thrive professionally as a spot up shooter.
Jordy, not really a very talented basketball player but always did play hard and had a great attitude; size will probably be enough to get him some looks overseas.
Rodney, the greatest defensive player AG ever coached, really was pretty disappointing over his two years; not sure he has enough basketball skill to play in any high level overseas league.
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03-05-2021, 08:07 PM
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Barring an unlikely NIT bid, is it time to ask ... do any seniors exercise the option to return next year? And would they be welcomed by staff? Crutcher is the only one who makes sense and hasn’t already sat a transfer year. My sense (and hope) is they’ll all take their degrees, play pro ball somewhere, and be Flyers forever.
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03-05-2021, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue
Barring an unlikely NIT bid, is it time to ask ... do any seniors exercise the option to return next year? And would they be welcomed by staff? Crutcher is the only one who makes sense and hasn’t already sat a transfer year. My sense (and hope) is they’ll all take their degrees, play pro ball somewhere, and be Flyers forever.
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It's time for Crutcher to move on, not because he couldn't help us, but we got our 4 years out of him and it's time for him to start making money with his basketball skills. And I can't think of one reason why he'd want to come back.
I have no desire for Ibi or Rodney to come back. At this point in time we stand to have 6 guards and 1 tweener(RJ) so it's time to move on from them. Jordy probably could be useful, but it's time for Mo to step up and with all the size we have at forward, there's just not enough minutes for the 280 lbs boulders. It might be great or there might be growing pains, but we need to stick to what the plan was and let it play out. Either AG got the right group for next year and beyond or he doesn't and we need to find out without bringing back 5th year players.
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03-05-2021, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue
Barring an unlikely NIT bid, is it time to ask ... do any seniors exercise the option to return next year? And would they be welcomed by staff? Crutcher is the only one who makes sense and hasn’t already sat a transfer year. My sense (and hope) is they’ll all take their degrees, play pro ball somewhere, and be Flyers forever.
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Crutcher certainly isn't going to get any better than he is right now. He's not going to get physically stronger or he's not going to get any faster. He is what he is and that is a very nice college basketball player. Maybe he wants to continue his education and get a free year or maybe he really misses the 13,000 per game which certainly he'll never forget from a year ago.
The only one who I think would not stunt our growth of any other players and would be a huge necessity is Jordy. You simply can't duplicate that size, experience and effort that he gives. Yes he's got deficiencies but to be able to get 15 to 20 minutes out of him and those seven or eight points and seven or eight rebounds is enormous now and anytime.
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03-05-2021, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia Blue
Barring an unlikely NIT bid, is it time to ask ... do any seniors exercise the option to return next year? And would they be welcomed by staff? Crutcher is the only one who makes sense and hasn’t already sat a transfer year. My sense (and hope) is they’ll all take their degrees, play pro ball somewhere, and be Flyers forever.
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They are most likely all gone. We have a top 12 recruiting class coming in. No sense in having any seniors return.
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03-05-2021, 09:16 PM
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The Flyers need to move on. A tough year for the seniors. No fans and had to play in sterile environments. They will be missed but life keeps moving forward.
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03-05-2021, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by steve
Crutcher certainly isn't going to get any better than he is right now. He's not going to get physically stronger or he's not going to get any faster. He is what he is and that is a very nice college basketball player. Maybe he wants to continue his education and get a free year or maybe he really misses the 13,000 per game which certainly he'll never forget from a year ago.
The only one who I think would not stunt our growth of any other players and would be a huge necessity is Jordy. You simply can't duplicate that size, experience and effort that he gives. Yes he's got deficiencies but to be able to get 15 to 20 minutes out of him and those seven or eight points and seven or eight rebounds is enormous now and anytime.
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NO PLAYER is going to return for the reason they want to play in front of 13000 fans one more time. And NO PLAYER that has the talent to make money at this game is going to return for the extra free year education. That's beyond ridiculous. He experienced it and it's time to move on. And Jordy returning would very much stunt the growth of Sissoko. The only reasons it would make sense for the team to have Jordy return is if Sissoko buys in to sitting on the bench for one more season or the coaching staff has given up on him(and since our coach doesn't go by the name Maddog, most likely not). Washington, Holmes, Zimi, Mustapha and RJ will demand minutes and if Sissoko does too, there's no room for Jordy.
Last edited by Smitty10; 03-05-2021 at 09:34 PM..
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03-05-2021, 10:06 PM
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Time for them to move on, and for us to move on!
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03-06-2021, 09:13 AM
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Just looked at final box score and the seniors had 15 of the 21 turnovers. That’s why the Flyers lost.
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03-06-2021, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
The Flyers need to move on. A tough year for the seniors. No fans and had to play in sterile environments. They will be missed but life keeps moving forward.
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And the players need to move on. Their best years are going forward....not trying to recapture a season a couple years removed.
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03-06-2021, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10
NO PLAYER is going to return for the reason they want to play in front of 13000 fans one more time. And NO PLAYER that has the talent to make money at this game is going to return for the extra free year education. That's beyond ridiculous. He experienced it and it's time to move on. And Jordy returning would very much stunt the growth of Sissoko. The only reasons it would make sense for the team to have Jordy return is if Sissoko buys in to sitting on the bench for one more season or the coaching staff has given up on him(and since our coach doesn't go by the name Maddog, most likely not). Washington, Holmes, Zimi, Mustapha and RJ will demand minutes and if Sissoko does too, there's no room for Jordy.
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I'm admittedly not good at judging future progress of players. I would have given up on a few that turned into good ones.
That said, sissoko doesn't look like he'll be a bigtime starter in the coming years. This will be year 3 coming up for him. I would have expected him to be much further along, at least show some flashes. He's a physical specimen, but lacks the bball iq and touch.
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03-06-2021, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shwag33
I'm admittedly not good at judging future progress of players. I would have given up on a few that turned into good ones.
That said, sissoko doesn't look like he'll be a bigtime starter in the coming years. This will be year 3 coming up for him. I would have expected him to be much further along, at least show some flashes. He's a physical specimen, but lacks the bball iq and touch.
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I believe with guys his size and the position they play it can take awhile before they can be the total package. And he was redshirted for a reason and it wasn't medical nor educational. And I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be a starter next season, but more like Jordy was in 2019-2020.
Sissoko seems to be a better shooter than Jordy and also comes with the same issues, ball handling and needs to improve defense. With his athleticism, he potentially could be much better than Jordy. It takes a lot of time to learn the center position, be patient. It's obvious he was more a project, probably due to his lack of basketball experience growing up. I predict by his 4th year with program, he's going to be force that we love and more importantly NEED.
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03-06-2021, 02:15 PM
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Agreed. Sissoko will be a spot player. His skill set doesn’t really fit the spread offense we run.
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