We need to be in the Whatever conference talk

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 IF THIS HAPPENS: It makes no sense to me either but I am guessing that is because we are both only looking at it from UD's perspective. If your basketball program isn't a revenue engine for your institution and you don't have an arguable chance of trying to improve your lot in life, (like everyone in the A10 that is not UD or VCU...maybe SLU), you might be looking at this as just adding numbers, especially if you think your best teams might be looking to leave. I don't really know that there is path to making the A10 better other than internal improvement. Who would we add (realistically...Gonzaga, Wichita, etc...aren't coming)? So if you can't better the conference, I guess you should at least look busy. I agree that this does nothing to help UD, but I assume we have only one vote. My sense is that if the A10 kicked Fordham, GW, whoever you want, out of the conference to appease UD and VCU, and the next day the BE came calling, we would have no sense of loyalty. (at least I hope we wouldn't). They have to realize that there is nothing they can realistically do to make us content to sit in the A10, so you do the best you can to prepare for the rainy day, ironically making the A10 even less palatable to UD in the process.

Truth bomb . . .

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[N2663R]

Here's how the big fish swim . . .

https://sports.yahoo.com/inside-smus...125139541.html

[The Gem]

https://www.si.com/college/gonzaga/b...etball-schools

I came to this thread expecting a lot of discussion about Stu Jackson's comments regarding potential WCC expansion. Surprisingly, I will have to initiate that discussion. His comments start at a little before the 12 minute mark. Could this be the opportunity we have all been looking for? I am intrigued.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by The Gem https://www.si.com/college/gonzaga/b...etball-schools I came to this thread expecting a lot of discussion about Stu Jackson's comments regarding potential WCC expansion. Surprisingly, I will have to initiate that discussion. His comments start at a little before the 12 minute mark. Could this be the opportunity we have all been looking for? I am intrigued.

He said they might add teams if there is an opportunity to. Earth shattering stuff man.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by The Gem https://www.si.com/college/gonzaga/b...etball-schools I came to this thread expecting a lot of discussion about Stu Jackson's comments regarding potential WCC expansion. Surprisingly, I will have to initiate that discussion. His comments start at a little before the 12 minute mark. Could this be the opportunity we have all been looking for? I am intrigued.

You do realize that other than BYU, every other school is on the west coast. Can you see UD going to the WCC for a little, or no more money, and having to send all its sports teams on marathon road trips. How does that math work?

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by The Gem https://www.si.com/college/gonzaga/b...etball-schools I came to this thread expecting a lot of discussion about Stu Jackson's comments regarding potential WCC expansion. Surprisingly, I will have to initiate that discussion. His comments start at a little before the 12 minute mark. Could this be the opportunity we have all been looking for? I am intrigued.

And I'm looking to date Scarlett Johannsen.

Stu Jackson can talk about the WCC being a great conference until he's blue in the face, but he's got nothing to offer. Admittedly, did not listen to the podcast, but that'd be like the MVC commissioner saying they're looking to expand. Cool. Best of luck.

The objective for most teams is to improve their standing not move laterally.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by N2663R Here's how the big fish swim . . . https://sports.yahoo.com/inside-smus...125139541.html

We can't compete with that, full stop.

Again, it's Big East or bust. The best consolation is an ACC implosion, followed by a new conference that grabs a handful of anchor ACC schools, then skims the cream from the A10, MVC, AAC, Conference USA, Horizon, etc.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by jack72 You do realize that other than BYU, every other school is on the west coast. Can you see UD going to the WCC for a little, or no more money, and having to send all its sports teams on marathon road trips. How does that math work?

BYU is in the Big 12.

[hawkoooo]

Maybe The Gem is thinking more along the lines of a "merger."

WCC + the top 10 teams in the A10 for a 20-team league.

Keep all non-basketball sports in 10-team coastal divisions and have hoops play a round robin + a geographical rival twice for a 20-game league schedule.

[NJFlyr71]

I'm glad anyone who was holding their breath on a different conference invite since this thread was started has been taking breaths again a short time later!


This thread started waay way back January 29 2017 at 3:04PM by the original poster Piqua Flyer '66


Since that time so long ago, many posters have tried to shape numerous conferences to fit our desires by proposing scenario's that could, should, "so you say there is a chance?", work in UD's favor.

Alas the wishful thinker, ... the I hope it comes to be, can't wait to leave the A10, fan is still here wanting to be the first to get the news about that invite to the whatever conference coming UD's way.

Who knows maybe it will snow in July, then again maybe not.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by flyer016 And I'm looking to date Scarlett Johannsen. Stu Jackson can talk about the WCC being a great conference until he's blue in the face, but he's got nothing to offer. Admittedly, did not listen to the podcast, but that'd be like the MVC commissioner saying they're looking to expand. Cool. Best of luck. The objective for most teams is to improve their standing not move laterally.

She passed me a note in history that she likes you.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Maybe The Gem is thinking more along the lines of a "merger." WCC + the top 10 teams in the A10 for a 20-team league. Keep all non-basketball sports in 10-team coastal divisions and have hoops play a round robin + a geographical rival twice for a 20-game league schedule.

The problem with this merger is that the WCC sucks other than Gonzaga and Saint Mary's. Why would we want to merge with them just to get 2 good games? Gonzaga would beat us the large majority of the time anyway. We already play SMC some of the time anyway. It is a hard no from me.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by jack72 You do realize that other than BYU, every other school is on the west coast. Can you see UD going to the WCC for a little, or no more money, and having to send all its sports teams on marathon road trips. How does that math work?

I would imagine that if they expanded, it would be more than just UD. It would be along the lines of what Hawkoo mentioned above. Also, geography is not a thing in conference realignment.
If they offer a better deal than the A10, why not take it? If Jackson wants to get a conference together that can rival the BE, then he knows UD, he knows we aren't entirely happy in the A10 so why not us?
I can even imagine a scenario where the BE gets nervy about WCC expansion and invites UD, SLU, and VCU in a preemptive strike.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ud2]

The only realistic scenario, other than the BE, IMO, is some sort of new league composed of the best of the A10 along with maybe some other teams like Wichita State, maybe Drake, maybe Northern Iowa, maybe Murray State, maybe Belmont, maybe 1 or 2 of those North/South Dakota schools that are decent, maybe Vermont.

And fcs football at the Dakota schools, Drake, Northern Iowa, and Murray State complicates things.

Maybe grab Belmont and Wichita along with the best A10 schools, and do that. Still not sure about Vermont, but they interest me.

I am not sure about Belmont or Wichita either, but the A10 keeps getting diluted more and more.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Maybe The Gem is thinking more along the lines of a "merger." WCC + the top 10 teams in the A10 for a 20-team league. Keep all non-basketball sports in 10-team coastal divisions and have hoops play a round robin + a geographical rival twice for a 20-game league schedule.

I think that would be lateral from a competition standpoint and I don't see how merging those two conferences creates any financial incentive for the member schools who matter. If you are Gonzaga, what is the pitch? "You will get to play UD, VCU and SLU, but they (and 7 teams you have no interest in playing) get a split of the money so you get way less." If you are UD, you are signing on for a 20-way split of money, and way more travel related costs. So you can play Gonzaga once a year, (and maybe SMC).

I don't see any major networks throwing a ton more money at the WCC than it gets now because you add 2 or three good basketball teams, (and 7 mediocre ones). Gonzaga can play whomever they want in the non-con so they aren't in the same desperate situation we are in as far as needing conference strength to get an NCAA bid.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by The Gem I would imagine that if they expanded, it would be more than just UD. It would be along the lines of what Hawkoo mentioned above. Also, geography is not a thing in conference realignment. If they offer a better deal than the A10, why not take it? If Jackson wants to get a conference together that can rival the BE, then he knows UD, he knows we aren't entirely happy in the A10 so why not us? I can even imagine a scenario where the BE gets nervy about WCC expansion and invites UD, SLU, and VCU in a preemptive strike.

Again, this is about money plain and simple, it is not about competition, or rivalries or Catholic brotherhood. IF the BE thought any of the A10 teams could help them get a better rights package, they would add said team(s) today. Sadly for us, UD does not move the financial needle for the BE (or Fox), so we have not been invited. I don't think the BE would care one way or another if UD left the A10. To the P5 (and BE in basketball), and their corporate media overlords, this is just noise.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 The only realistic scenario, other than the BE, IMO, is some sort of new league composed of the best of the A10 along with maybe some other teams like Wichita State, maybe Drake, maybe Northern Iowa, maybe Murray State, maybe Belmont, maybe 1 or 2 of those North/South Dakota schools that are decent, maybe Vermont. And fcs football at the Dakota schools, Drake, Northern Iowa, and Murray State complicates things. Maybe grab Belmont and Wichita along with the best A10 schools, and do that. Still not sure about Vermont, but they interest me. I am not sure about Belmont or Wichita either, but the A10 keeps getting diluted more and more.

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1632

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan http://www.udpride.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1632

I would add that if UConn did ever get an invite to the ACC and left, you could move St Johns back to the East division and pick up another school in the mid-east region to replace them in that division.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan If I could create a 4 division BE, it might look better like this East Georgetown UConn Providence Villanova Seton Hall Mid-East St Johns Dayton Xavier Butler VCU Mid-West Marquette DePaul Creighton SLU Wichita State West Gonzaga St Mary's San Francisco Santa Clara Some other team (Grand Canyon)? You'd get pushback on St Johns not being with the other base members of the BE, but would be an issue for any of those teams not being part of their regional rivalry. This is all pie in the sky thinking, but who knows what will happen.

I would absolutely love this, not holding my breath however.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[momszer]

Hawkoo,


BYU is in the WCC this year but: Beginning in 2024, Big 12 Conference membership will consist of Arizona, Arizona State, Baylor, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, Utah, and West Virginia.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by momszer Hawkoo, BYU is in the WCC this year but: Beginning in 2024, Big 12 Conference membership will consist of Arizona, Arizona State, Baylor, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, Utah, and West Virginia.

Like I said, BYU is in the B12 now.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I would absolutely love this, not holding my breath however.

Oh yeah, me either. But it seems like it would solve some long-standing issues for non-football schools, and address most of the travel issues, etc. But I agree, it's just highly unlikely.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by momszer Hawkoo, BYU is in the WCC this year but: Beginning in 2024, Big 12 Conference membership will consist of Arizona, Arizona State, Baylor, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, Utah, and West Virginia.

Cincinnati, Central Florida, and Houston are in the Big 12 right now, they joined on July 1, 2023.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by ud2 Cincinnati, Central Florida, and Houston are in the Big 12 right now, they joined on July 1, 2023.

So when discussing the WCC we should still consider BYU a member because they'll be in it one more year? Y'all are joking right?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo So when discussing the WCC we should still consider BYU a member because they'll be in it one more year? Y'all are joking right?

BYU is also in the Big 12 right now, I was just clarifying the situation with UC, UCF, and Houston for momszer.

I think some folks aren't up to speed on some of the realignment that is already a reality.

I just don't see any benefit from merging with the WCC, and I don't see any good schools that the WCC could add.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Doesn't the A10 have to pro-actively plan for any/all of UD, SLU, VCU moving on? They'd be foolish to not be looking for as many solid Tier2 teams to add to the conference whether UD likes the teams or not.

Yes, fair enough, I suppose the A10 does have to worry about self-preservation in the event that Dayton and/or VCU and/or SLU leaves.

This would seem to indicate that the threat of BE expansion is real and not just noise, Charleston only marginally improves the A10, at least with Davidson, GM, and Loyola you could point to some significant recent success to justify their additions, even if that success may have been due to a single hc.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Doesn't the A10 have to pro-actively plan for any/all of UD, SLU, VCU moving on? They'd be foolish to not be looking for as many solid Tier2 teams to add to the conference whether UD likes the teams or not.

They don't really need a plan if SLU, VCU and UD leave. It does not matter who they add, they will become the holy trinity with the Horizon League and the MAC . . .

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by N2663R They don't really need a plan if SLU, VCU and UD leave. It does not matter who they add, they will become the holy trinity with the Horizon League and the MAC . . .

I would give the MAC more credit than that. I don't think Charleston improves the A10 at all. I expect they would be in the bottom quarter of the conference most years, so everybody gets another game (or 2) with a quad 3 or 4 team. That can't do anything but hurt the conference as far as producing tourney bids. You get virtually no help in the NET for winning a game like that, but it is fatal if you lose it. Classic no win situation.

I will also point out that this may be a moot discussion as the original poster heard something and was asking for verification, and while we have all expressed our opinions, I haven't seen anyone else saying they heard the same thing or confirming this in any way. Maybe they will announce it after AG's retirement party.

[OSU Flyer]

@MattBrownEP
I've actually been making calls about this for *weeks*, and hope to have more to share by the end of this week. Been also calling about the A10 and also Delaware, and should have enough sourced info for a big realignment newsletter by Friday

Matt Brown was with SB Nation and now does an interesting substack on realignment and the business of college sports

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Talk of Delaware and Charleston makes me think that the A10 is adding members with the anticipation of losing members. It also seems like they’re looking at teams that are similar to the large majority of A10 schools. Something just might be cooking.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jack72]

Delaware to the A10??? Who is next John Carroll?
Posted via Mobile Device

[sheg]

Delaware is looking at moving up to FBS so would need a conference that plays football. Talking to MAC.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...HH0cp6VtZRmewz

[flyerfanatic86]

"We are UD" chants would take on a different meaning against Delaware.

[hawkoooo]

Delaware adds nothing. No market, no recent success, no historic success, no rabid fan base. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

[Whacker]

Plus they are the only other D1 team with the light blue and red color combo.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Whacker Plus they are the only other D1 team with the light blue and red color combo.

Not sure who you're thinking of, but Delaware is blue and "gold" (really more of a yellow).

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by sheg Delaware is looking at moving up to FBS so would need a conference that plays football. Talking to MAC. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...HH0cp6VtZRmewz

They have a President from their state…for now.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by sheg Delaware is looking at moving up to FBS so would need a conference that plays football. Talking to MAC. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...HH0cp6VtZRmewz

UCONN’s situation says “hi”

[CoffeeCan]

If college basketball adopted the promotion/relegation system:

[Whacker]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Not sure who you're thinking of, but Delaware is blue and "gold" (really more of a yellow).

Was thinking of Delaware State

[OSU Flyer]

So the AAC is after Army as a football only replacement for SMU. That could open up the door for them to take a basketball only school to get back to an even number

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan If college basketball adopted the promotion/relegation system:

I know people love soccer. I am not one of them. Please don't turn a game I like into one I don't.

[Furio]

American already has Navy as a football only member.
Adding Army would give them 2 football only members
so no need to add .

[sheg]

Originally Posted by Furio American already has Navy as a football only member. Adding Army would give them 2 football only members so no need to add .

Why not? Army brings excellent TV ratings and will boost attendance when they play on the road. A win-win if the conference keeps Army-Navy as an out-of-conference game since they already have a separate TV deal for that.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I know people love soccer. I am not one of them. Please don't turn a game I like into one I don't.

I don't mind soccer, but that system would be horrible and would ruin college hoops and everything we love about it. Cute graphic though I guess.

Originally Posted by Furio American already has Navy as a football only member. Adding Army would give them 2 football only members so no need to add .

Why would we want to be in the American now anyway?

[Furio]

My bad forgot Wichita St is basketball only. So if they add army they
might add another basketball only school. Though possible
Wichita St might leave as that conference is no longer what
they signed up for with the schools leaving.
Not that excited about the American at this point for
UD

[OSU Flyer]

My fear would be that VCU gets poached by them

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer My fear would be that VCU gets poached by them

I doubt it...Memphis(who is sort of already halfway out the door, they are dieing to leave), Temple, Wichita State, Florida Atlantic(what happens if/when hc Dusty May leaves?), and sort of ok: South Florida, Tulsa, and UAB. SMU is leaving on July 1, 2024.

Vs. Dayton, SLU, RI, and sort of ok: SBU, Richmond, Davidson(they seem to be reeling now without McKillop), Loyola, GM, and SJU.

I can't see it happening.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 I doubt it...Memphis(who is sort of already halfway out the door, they are dieing to leave), Temple, Wichita State, Florida Atlantic(what happens if/when hc Dusty May leaves?), and sort of ok: South Florida, Tulsa, and UAB. SMU is leaving on July 1, 2024. Vs. Dayton, SLU, RI, and sort of ok: SBU, Richmond, Davidson(they seem to be reeling now without McKillop), Loyola, GM, and SJU. I can't see it happening.

hypothetical situation:

The American offers UD, VCU and St Louis more money to join the conference. Would you make the jump?

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer hypothetical situation: The American offers UD, VCU and St Louis more money to join the conference. Would you make the jump?

Maybe, I guess if it was a significant $ increase. It doesn't feel like a good institutional fit though. The AAC is mostly public schools with football. Most/all of them would leave if they got a better offer from another league IMO.


AAC membership:

ECU...1
UAB...2
FAU...3
Memphis...4
Charlotte...5
North Texas...6
Rice...7
South Florida...8
SMU...leaving July 1, 2024...9
Temple...10
UTSA...11
Tulane...12
Tulsa...13
Wichita State...non-football member...14
Navy...football only...15

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[hawkoooo]

Zero interest in the American at this point. And I'm willing to admit I was dead wrong about wanting to be in this conference before. It would've been a huge mistake to leave and we'd be in Wichita State's situation right now.

Memphis and Tulane won't last long. We should be trying to rescue Wichita State. American = Conference USA 2.0.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer hypothetical situation: The American offers UD, VCU and St Louis more money to join the conference. Would you make the jump?

Great question. I think so.

There's really nothing tying Dayton to the A10, especially if SLU and VCU go. Those three comprise nearly all of the quality in the conference, and it's not like there's any heated rivalries or really much geographic proximity.

Then again, there's not a lot of quality in the AAC either. The real question is whether you can cobble together a nice basketball-focused 11-team conference from the A10, AAC, Conference USA, MVC, Horizon

Dayton, SLU, VCU, Memphis, Temple, Wichita State, Loyola Chicago

Of course, you'd have to figure out football for Memphis and Temple.

Other options:

Big metros: Charlotte, Belmont, Duquesne

MVC quality: Bradley, Drake

A10 soft spot: Richmond, Davidson

Any folks have any ideas on a East Coast, Midwest conference?

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer hypothetical situation: The American offers UD, VCU and St Louis more money to join the conference. Would you make the jump?

I would say yes, unless UD has a belief that is based on more than sunshine and rainbows that the BE is about to add us. You basically take the best parts, (the only parts) of the A10 and add it to a conference that is already equal to or slightly better than the A10 (without adding the best three teams in the A10), and you get more money.

From a practical standpoint what if you say no and the other two say yes? Now you are the undisputed leader of a flaming dumpster.

[hawkoooo]

Y'all seem to be overlooking the giant elephant in the room. Why the hell would VCU and SLU want to join the American?

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Zero interest in the American at this point. And I'm willing to admit I was dead wrong about wanting to be in this conference before. It would've been a huge mistake to leave and we'd be in Wichita State's situation right now. Memphis and Tulane won't last long. We should be trying to rescue Wichita State. American = Conference USA 2.0.

I don't think your wrong but the hypothetical was all three schools getting invited. If that were to happen I don't think UD could afford to say "no thanks."

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Y'all seem to be overlooking the giant elephant in the room. Why the hell would VCU and SLU want to join the American?

$$$

The hypothetical said joining would come with more annual money.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Y'all seem to be overlooking the giant elephant in the room. Why the hell would VCU and SLU want to join the American?

A hypothetical just that, you don't have to pick it apart with logic. By definition it is a question based on assumed facts.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 A hypothetical just that, you don't have to pick it apart with logic. By definition it is a question based on assumed facts.

Ok fair, I did the chick thing where you ask a hypothetical with two choices and she says "neither."

I would be shocked to see that happen, but yes, if both of them said yes we would essentially be forced to follow.

[CoffeeCan]

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

Only a dozen D1 public schools (out of 232) fully cover the cost of athletic programs from sports-based revenues.

Wonder how UD would rank here?

Also, sort by "Total Allocated" and UConn leads the way with $55m...

[Chris R]

I encourage everyone to visit some of these major football schools in the Big10 and SEC whenever you are in their neck of the woods. Spend a couple hours walking the campus. If you didn't see it you wouldn't believe it. They have so much money they sit around arguing if they can even spend it all. The baseball stadiums are nicer than some minor league ballparks, the tennis facilities look like they could host a leg on the ATP Tour, and the women's field hockey locker rooms and lounges are nicer than the Donoher Center.

Its not just a different planet its a different universe.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Buckleyma]

From "The Dallas Express", "The SMU athletic department is getting a massive boost as the Mustangs prepare to enter the Atlantic Coast Conference in 2024. According to a news release on the department website, the university has raised $100 million in seven days from a group of 30 donors and trustees to support the move to its new conference."

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances Only a dozen D1 public schools (out of 232) fully cover the cost of athletic programs from sports-based revenues. Wonder how UD would rank here? Also, sort by "Total Allocated" and UConn leads the way with $55m...

There are not 16 teams left who are playing for the real prize, we don't need a 16 team playoff. This is total athletic budget so it's not a perfect score but it's directionally correct.

Why we don't need a 16 team playoff to know who's going to win in any given year, by Gazoo (current budget from that link):

2005 Texas 2
2006 Florida 8
2007 LSU 6
2008 Florida 8
2009 Alabama 3
2010 Auburn 11
2011 Alabama 3
2012 Alabama 3
2013 Florida State 15
2014 Ohio State 1
2015 Alabama 3
2016 Clemson 17
2017 Alabama 3
2018 Clemson 17
2019 LSU 6
2020 Alabama 3
2021 Georgia 5
2022 Georgia 5

Average: 6.6

Only Clemson, FSU, and Auburn are in the double-digits, and have ranged between nearly irrelevant and moderately good since their last win.

The current top 7 includes Georgia (5), Michigan (4), Texas (2), FSU (15), USC (oddly not in the link), tOSU (1), and PSU (9).

The same teams are going to win it basically every year, and within that group of 10-12 nobody outside the top 4 in the rankings at year end is going to win.

[Buckleyma]

Dayton fills up the UD arena with 14,000 fans. I believe that out of that 14,000 there are 30 fans who could stand shoulder to shoulder and each donate 3.4 million each. Then Dayton can buy their way into a better conference just like our upcoming opponent on the basketball schedule, SMU. We just need one person to act as the project manager and get these Dayton fans together. Neil Sullivan is our director of athletics. Neil, please consider taking the ownership of this task.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma Dayton fills up the UD arena with 14,000 fans. I believe that out of that 14,000 there are 30 fans who could stand shoulder to shoulder and each donate 3.4 million each. Then Dayton can buy their way into a better conference just like our upcoming opponent on the basketball schedule, SMU. We just need one person to act as the project manager and get these Dayton fans together. Neil Sullivan is our director of athletics. Neil, please consider taking the ownership of this task. Posted via Mobile Device

I'm sure Neil also wishes it was this easy to raise $100 million out of thin air.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Gazoo There are not 16 teams left who are playing for the real prize, we don't need a 16 team playoff. This is total athletic budget so it's not a perfect score but it's directionally correct. Only Clemson, FSU, and Auburn are in the double-digits, and have ranged between nearly irrelevant and moderately good since their last win. The current top 7 includes Georgia (5), Michigan (4), Texas (2), FSU (15), USC (oddly not in the link), tOSU (1), and PSU (9). The same teams are going to win it basically every year, and within that group of 10-12 nobody outside the top 4 in the rankings at year end is going to win.

I think one could argue that we do need a 16 team playoff. Remember TCU beating Michigan last year in the 4 team playoff? Where did TCU rank?

Clemson has only been moderately good since they won it all? They have made the playoff multiple times iinm. Making the final 4 means that you are only moderately good?

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ud2 I think one could argue that we do need a 16 team playoff. Remember TCU beating Michigan last year in the 4 team playoff? Where did TCU rank?

But don't you see? You're making my point for me. The drop off in talent is so great that the newcomer got lucky once, sure, but they weren't even close to belonging in this group. They got utterly SMOKED by Georgia, while tOSU lost by a missed last second field goal.

TCU had no chance.

So yeah, 16 team playoff, great. You'll get an upset. But you won't have any better chance at finding the best team. The best team is definitively in the top 4 for college football, possibly top 5 if there's an injury that cost a game or 2.

Originally Posted by ud2 Clemson has only been moderately good since they won it all? They have made the playoff multiple times iinm. Making the final 4 means that you are only moderately good?

They won in 2018. They then finished 2nd, 3rd, 14th (3 losses), and 13th (3 losses), and this year they're currently unranked after losing to (checks notes) (checks notes again to be sure) Duke. In football. I was trying to reflect that they had a good run but continue to get worse ever since. It's very possible their run is done for quite a while.

[jack72]

So what you guys are saying is why have a playoff. The SEC has won six of the last eight. Just crown the SEC champ.