We need to be in the Whatever conference talk

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Just not enough
quality wins in
A-10. See Marq.,
GT, Gtown,etc. this week.
We are always
on bubble in late
Jan.....amazing how
AM gets us into
the "dance".

[FlyerFanatic08]

win conference outright each year we'll be fine...all else fails win conference tourney. nothing wrong with the A-10...if we get where we want to be everything else will take care of itself.

[ud69]

Yet, if we make the dance this year, it will be the first time in our history for 4 years in a row. I think the NBE would rouse the fan base, but would it improve our NCAA success? Not necessarily.

[UDTradition]

I was a strong proponent of moving to the BE. I've mellowed a lot. As long as UD can continue its strong showing and making the tournament then I'm happy. We don't have to be a 6 seed or better for me to be satisfied. Quite honestly, I just want to enjoy the excitement of a season where we are likely to reach the tournament.

If we move to the BE, we will never be hoping for a 4 year string. Regardless of the recruits, we will never consistently be part of the top 2-4 BE teams.

4 years ago...did anyone on this board think that we would be inline for our 4th NCAA post season?

This formula doesn't seem to bother Gonzaga.

[Fudd]

Making the NCAA Tournament regularly is the ultimate test of where we belong, IMO. I think that it is hard to beat our situation right now.

As others are pointing out, look at our recent success. It's hard to argue with success.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDTradition If we move to the BE, we will never be hoping for a 4 year string. Regardless of the recruits, we will never consistently be part of the top 2-4 BE teams.

What is your justification for saying that? We have Archie now.

Might initially have a tough time beating Villanova consistently, but everybody else is beatable.

4 years ago...did anyone on this board think that we would be inline for our 4th NCAA post season?

Yes, in fact, I did think that was possible.

But, I agree, the A10 is not bad for now.

[UDTradition]

Not to be mean spirited...however, objectively Archie has not had a good recruiting season for the past 3 years. So just by "having" Archie doesn't seem to cut the mustard (whatever that expression means).

Shouldn't we be looking forward to a reasonably strong team next year with a solid core of veterans? We are going to have to rely on Freshman to be competitive?

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by UDTradition I was a strong proponent of moving to the BE. I've mellowed a lot. As long as UD can continue its strong showing and making the tournament then I'm happy. We don't have to be a 6 seed or better for me to be satisfied. Quite honestly, I just want to enjoy the excitement of a season where we are likely to reach the tournament. If we move to the BE, we will never be hoping for a 4 year string. Regardless of the recruits, we will never consistently be part of the top 2-4 BE teams. 4 years ago...did anyone on this board think that we would be inline for our 4th NCAA post season? This formula doesn't seem to bother Gonzaga.

Butler and Creighton came from worse conferences than the A10 and they don't seem to be having a lot of trouble consistently being part of the top 2-4 BE teams. Why couldn't we? It would only improve our recruiting. I think that's a defeatist attitude to think we wouldn't be able to compete in the Big East. What do any of those schools have that we don't? Football? No. Great facilities? No. Great fan bases? No. In fact only Creighton and Marquette had better average attendance than we did last year.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Just not enough quality wins in A-10. See Marq., GT, Gtown,etc. this week. We are always on bubble in late Jan.....amazing how AM gets us into the "dance".

And what should we do to get in the BE? Hold our collective f'n breaths until they let us in?

[jumpin' joe]

The best way to get in the BE is to dominate the A10 (which we have not done). I like our current situation in the A10, but I want more. I want a true national program which won't happen if we remain in the A10. The BE currently has four top 15 programs and two more likely to get in the NCAA tournament. This year we might be happy to get two NCAA teams from the A10 (I know we have had three for several years in a row, but the A10 is down this year). Nobody is saying A-10 is nearly as good as the BE anymore. It's not even close.

[hawkoooo]

I think the A10 could use a few more quality programs, but it is a fine conference. Perennial top-10 RPI league. If you schedule well in the non con and play well in conference you'll be in play for an at large year in and year out.

[CT Flyer]

I'm not sure if getting in the BE is completely in our hands, except to continue to be a successful program year in year out. But if we do ever get the invite we shouldn't be afraid to go. As for the A10 if we could get other programs like Witchita St. Then maybe it would be a a better league where we could compete with the BE.

[UD90]

Gonzaga WCC 11th ranked conference

A10 - 3+ bids every year since 2008. 11 total bids since NBE formed in 2014-16

NBE - 15 bids 2014-16

[UDTradition]

Talk to Depaul and then tell me you want to be in the BE.

[frisco flyer]

Screw the BE.

Why anyone would advocate for a fine Catholic university like ours to take the moral low ground and join that conference is beyond me.

We are right where we need to be. Until these money grubs change their attitude, I say we stay away.

[FlyerBob]

Originally Posted by UDTradition Talk to Depaul and then tell me you want to be in the BE.

Disagree. UD is a better university, Has better facilities (even their new convention center stadium is way off campus), better coaches, better fans and equal or better legacy. They have one asset that's more attractive- geography.

I'd love to get into the BE, those are our peer institutions and we'd never lose Archie. But for now I'm fine with the A10 for all the excellent reasons mentioned. We should be a NCAAT considered team every year where we are. Only if the A10 loses the auto bid (very unlikely) would I dislike our situation.

[chicago92]

DePaul's (as well as U of Illinois) main problem is that they can't get the good Chicago players to stay home. The city is too violent and the really good players get the hell out of here.

Regarding the NBE, we need to be in the league. It would help recruiting, it gets us with like institutions, we have better facilities than all of them, etc. But the main reason we need to get in is so we can pick up quality wins once the conference season starts. We have 1 - 3 opportunities during the conference games but in the NBE we would have 8 - 10. This in itself is worth leaving for the NBE unless schools in the A10 start stepping up their game.

[Smitty10]

The A10 is now starting to pay the price for losing X, and Temple. Losing the perennial top 25 teams makes all of the A10 weaker when it comes to recruiting. Little harder to sell a great recruit on facing the likes of RI, VCU, SB, Davidson, GW, Richmond etc. than it is on playing Nova, Georgetown, X, Butler, Marquette etc. That's just a fact of life. So, yes, the Flyers can still become a perennial NCAA team due to being a big fish in small pond, but will they ever have the players to go deep into the tourney again?

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[224]

The same reasons why we want to be in the NBE is why recruits will chose NBE schools over UD (not always, but more times than not).

We want to be in NBE for better exposure and to to face better competition, which more times than not will lead to more success (and we can make more $). Are these not the very things recruits consider when comparing A10 schools to NBE schools? If we get in the NBE we likely have better rapport with higher level recruits, which in turn will lead to more sustained succes.

Sure the competition in NBE is better, but we will be better too. It's all about how this program can evolve and improve. Nova/X/Butler/Creighton have all evolved and improved.

A first place finish in the 14 team A10 this year is projecting us as an 8 seed. In the NBE this year a 5th place finish (of just 10 schools) is also projecting an 8 seed. I fail to see the logic in being the big fish in a small pond is an advantage because at the end of the day we have a lower ceiling. If we are in NBE this year we have more opportunities for marque wins, and maybe we can jump up to a 5/6/7 seed.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 The A10 is now starting to pay the price for losing X, and Temple. Losing the perennial top 25 teams makes all of the A10 weaker when it comes to recruiting. Little harder to sell a great recruit on facing the likes of RI, VCU, SB, Davidson, GW, Richmond etc. than it is on playing Nova, Georgetown, X, Butler, Marquette etc. That's just a fact of life. So, yes, the Flyers can still become a perennial NCAA team due to being a big fish in small pond, but will they ever have the players to go deep into the tourney again?

Top recruits want to play in the Tournament and then the pros. If we keep playing in March more often than not, and if we keep sending players to the pros, we will be fine.

And we get to keep all our water fountains and urinals.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer Top recruits want to play in the Tournament and then the pros. If we keep playing in March more often than not, and if we keep sending players to the pros, we will be fine. And we get to keep all our water fountains and urinals.

Nobody said we wouldn't be fine. But that's not the point. We would be better off in a better conference. We would have better recruits who will develop better against better competition. Do you really believe that if you lineup the top 100 recruits, and listed Georgetown or Dayton as their preferences, Georgetown wouldn't blow UD out of the water in that poll?

Yes, we'll be fine being the big fish in the small pond, but we most likely will never be a big fish in a big pond for even one season. And if VCU decides to move on one day, we will become a smaller big fish in a smaller small pond. Heck, we might find ourselves playing in something tantamount to the Horizon Tournament to keep our NCAA streak alive if we just sit still and accept being a member of the slow, diminishing talent in the A10. Yes, always wondered what it would feel like to be a 15 seed in the dance.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by UDTradition Not to be mean spirited...however, objectively Archie has not had a good recruiting season for the past 3 years. So just by "having" Archie doesn't seem to cut the mustard (whatever that expression means). Shouldn't we be looking forward to a reasonably strong team next year with a solid core of veterans? We are going to have to rely on Freshman to be competitive?

Your first comment above is flawed. Objectively, Archie is recruiting to a program in a league where 2/3 of the schools play in cracker box gyms and having a legit D-1 program is an afterthought. I'd say Archie is doing an incredible recruiting job. The worst programs in the BE (Seton Hall, SJU) are still better (facilities, commitment to basketball) than any school in the A10 not named Dayton or VCU.

Not to be mean spirited...

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[UDTradition]

[QUOTE=Radar;482774]Your first comment above is flawed. Objectively, Archie is recruiting to a program in a league where 2/3 of the schools play in cracker box gyms and having a legit D-1 program is an afterthought. I'd say Archie is doing an incredible recruiting job. The worst programs in the BE (Seton Hall, SJU) are still better (facilities, commitment to basketball) than any school in the A10 not named Dayton or VCU.

I don't mean to hyjack this thread with challenging Archie's recruiting but you tell me did Archie do an incredible job with the current freshman and junior class?

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 win conference outright each year we'll be fine...

That's a bit of an oversimplified solution. It's not that easy. Even with our best teams we haven't been able to win it outright. We do need to upgrade our conference - I don't think we keep Archie without an upgrade.

[CE80]

Why stop at the BE? Why not the Big 10, ACC, PAC 12? Why not move the school to someplace warmer, a more vibrant city? Why don't we get more one and dones? All these would make the Flyers more attractive and thus elevate the program.

These threads (about the BE) are the stupidest threads on this board. More stupid than some of the political ones on the OTG forum. I don't know how many times I have to say this but...

If asked, UD will join the BE in a nano second, but ... THEY AREN'T INVITING US now or maybe ever.

[jumpin' joe]

Originally Posted by CE80 Why stop at the BE? Why not the Big 10, ACC, PAC 12? Why not move the school to someplace warmer, a more vibrant city? Why don't we get more one and dones? All these would make the Flyers more attractive and thus elevate the program. These threads (about the BE) are the stupidest threads on this board. More stupid than some of the political ones on the OTG forum. I don't know how many times I have to say this but... If asked, UD will join the BE in a nano second, but ... THEY AREN'T INVITING US now or maybe ever.

I agree, but I had to speak up earlier when some folks on this board seem happy with our current situation in the A10. Complacency leads to mediocrity.

[Smitty10]

[QUOTE=UDTradition;482779]

Originally Posted by Radar Your first comment above is flawed. Objectively, Archie is recruiting to a program in a league where 2/3 of the schools play in cracker box gyms and having a legit D-1 program is an afterthought. I'd say Archie is doing an incredible recruiting job. The worst programs in the BE (Seton Hall, SJU) are still better (facilities, commitment to basketball) than any school in the A10 not named Dayton or VCU. I don't mean to hyjack this thread with challenging Archie's recruiting but you tell me did Archie do an incredible job with the current freshman and junior class?

Freshman class? Are you judging Trey's future based on this season? That cannot be answered at this point in time. Junior class? Yeah, Big Steve was quite a find. But I assume you blame AM for not foreseeing the tragedy?

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

[QUOTE=Smitty10;482791]

Originally Posted by UDTradition Freshman class? Are you judging Trey's future based on this season? That cannot be answered at this point in time. Junior class? Yeah, Big Steve was quite a find. But I assume you blame AM for not foreseeing the tragedy?

and do not forget that Kostas was suppose to be a part of the current freshman class as well. Time will tell how that works out

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Nobody said we wouldn't be fine. But that's not the point. We would be better off in a better conference. We would have better recruits who will develop better against better competition. Do you really believe that if you lineup the top 100 recruits, and listed Georgetown or Dayton as their preferences, Georgetown wouldn't blow UD out of the water in that poll? Yes, we'll be fine being the big fish in the small pond, but we most likely will never be a big fish in a big pond for even one season. And if VCU decides to move on one day, we will become a smaller big fish in a smaller small pond. Heck, we might find ourselves playing in something tantamount to the Horizon Tournament to keep our NCAA streak alive if we just sit still and accept being a member of the slow, diminishing talent in the A10. Yes, always wondered what it would feel like to be a 15 seed in the dance.

I don't pay attention to G'Town's recruiting so I don't know who gets the better recruits, but I do know we have been more successful than them over the past few years.

[jack72]

Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. No doubt Archie would have a shot at better kids in one of the top conferences. That is the #1 reason to get in a better league.

The freshmen class has Kostas, and he would appear to be a top recruit. Lander's getting walk on minutes is not good when you see so many frosh out there starting or contributing, but maybe he is a late bloomer like some say.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

I see people mention lets go after Witchita state, Northern Iowa, or such n such school. My question is, who else is unhappy where they are? What needs to be done to get the top 10 to 12 schools not in a big time conference together to start our own conference? How can we convince the top half of the A-10 to jump ship and find a few more schools to add to the mix?

More importantly, does UD administration feel the way many fans feel about playing the league bottom dwellers in high school gyms year after year?

[San Diego Flyer]

We are not likely to ever get in the BE. The money trail just doesn't line up for anyone but the current incumbents. That ship sailed.

As far as Archie and recruits, he has excelled at developing many players. He has made a 4 star team out of 3 star recruits. Has he missed on a few? Yup. But with this crowd, the next coach better pray he can do as well, because Arch has pulled a rabbit out of a hat almost every season. And we have some fans that will go postal if the new guy can't do as well.

[116 Chambers]

We don't necessarily need to join the NBE. But what we MUST do is continue scheduling good OOC games. I also think it is IMPERATIVE that we schedule a game verses either St. Mary's, Gonzaga, or Wichita St. DURING Conference play, like this Big 12 verses SEC or XU verses UC or Nova/Virg games. Look at what those games will do for the RPIs of a lot of those teams. That would be a great way to break up a stretch where we might play Duquesne, Fordham, George Mason, UMass, etc. I would have preferred to play St. Mary's at this point of the season than so early on in the year. And I'm sure they would like that RPI boost too (same for Gonzaga & Wichita St.). Also, that would free up another day for scheduling an OOC opponent before conference play begins.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan I see people mention lets go after Witchita state, Northern Iowa, or such n such school. My question is, who else is unhappy where they are? What needs to be done to get the top 10 to 12 schools not in a big time conference together to start our own conference? How can we convince the top half of the A-10 to jump ship and find a few more schools to add to the mix? More importantly, does UD administration feel the way many fans feel about playing the league bottom dwellers in high school gyms year after year?

That would be great. What would determine the A10 teams you'd take? Program success or arena size? I would take pleasure in leaving SJ behind.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan I see people mention lets go after Witchita state, Northern Iowa, or such n such school. My question is, who else is unhappy where they are? What needs to be done to get the top 10 to 12 schools not in a big time conference together to start our own conference? How can we convince the top half of the A-10 to jump ship and find a few more schools to add to the mix? More importantly, does UD administration feel the way many fans feel about playing the league bottom dwellers in high school gyms year after year?

Now that is something to discuss. We aren't getting in the BE and we are not going to be able to kick out the bottom feeders of the A10. Starting up a new conference may be difficult but it is at least something we could have a hand in controlling. I could see how that would be the answer to the BE and power 5 taking over the NCAA tourney. The other high major programs, stuck in mid major conferences band together to form a basketball only conference.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan I see people mention lets go after Witchita state, Northern Iowa, or such n such school. My question is, who else is unhappy where they are? What needs to be done to get the top 10 to 12 schools not in a big time conference together to start our own conference? How can we convince the top half of the A-10 to jump ship and find a few more schools to add to the mix? More importantly, does UD administration feel the way many fans feel about playing the league bottom dwellers in high school gyms year after year?

Not likely to happen. The MVC schools are happy where they are because of football. They would not be likely to join a conference with a bunch of A10 schools.

UD will be in the A10 for a long time. And there is little we or UD can do about it.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDTradition Not to be mean spirited...however, objectively Archie has not had a good recruiting season for the past 3 years. So just by "having" Archie doesn't seem to cut the mustard (whatever that expression means). Shouldn't we be looking forward to a reasonably strong team next year with a solid core of veterans? We are going to have to rely on Freshman to be competitive?

I disagree about the recruiting.

Nobody knows what next year will be like. The off-season sometimes/often brings twists and turns. Wait til next year to judge next year.

The expression means that Archie does a fine job of maximizing his team's abilities, he also recruits very well.

There are veterans next year.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Not likely to happen. The MVC schools are happy where they are because of football. They would not be likely to join a conference with a bunch of A10 schools. UD will be in the A10 for a long time. And there is little we or UD can do about it.

No offense, but you can be pretty dour/negative sometimes about UD men's basketball, and you have been proven wrong about some things.

You used to say that the last 30-40 years, that that might be the best that can be expected. And Archie has blown that idea out of the water.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 No offense, but you can be pretty dour/negative sometimes about UD men's basketball, and you have been proven wrong about some things. You used to say that the last 30-40 years, that that might be the best that can be expected. And Archie has blown that idea out of the water.

LOL. Was he part of that group that would say "be careful what you wish for" when Gregory moved on and then 3 years later said "Brian Gregory was a great coach for us, but it was time for him to move on".

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Someone above said
AM recruiting has
awful. Say what?!
If Big Steve doesn't
pass and Cunningham
is healthy, we are in Top 10.
Pretty good recruiting
to me.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by ud2 No offense, but you can be pretty dour/negative sometimes about UD men's basketball, and you have been proven wrong about some things. You used to say that the last 30-40 years, that that might be the best that can be expected. And Archie has blown that idea out of the water.

I said where we were was about what we had done for 40 years, not that it couldn't be better. The point was whether the UD administration was satisfied with that.

And no, I wasn't the least bit opposed to letting Gregory move on because it wasn't going to get any better.

So tell me, realistically, what is UD going to do to change it's conference? It's all up to the Big East. It's totally out of UD's control. All UD can do is be at a level that they would be desired if the Big East were to expand. And that doesn't seem likely in the near term.

Nearly all the MVC schools play FCS football, and at the highest level of FCS. The idea that a combined form of some MVC schools and A10 schools forms a new conference seems far fetched.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDDoug I said where we were was about what we had done for 40 years, not that it couldn't be better. The point was whether the UD administration was satisfied with that.

Ok, I remembered it differently, my mistake, I apologize.

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 Why not move the school to someplace warmer, a more vibrant city?

Now there's an idea. Do you think anyone would really notice if we moved the school to Daytona?

[CoffeeCan]

The only reason we are not in the BE is that we have not been invited. Yet.

It is a good fit for all, except our TV market overlaps Cincinnati, which the BE already has.

Villanova - Roman Catholic
Butler - Has Christian roots, though now not affiliated with any religious order
Creighton - Catholic (Jesuit)
DePaul - Catholic (Vincentian)
Georgetown - Catholic (Jesuit)
Marquette - Catholic (Jesuit)
Providence - Catholic (Dominican)
Seton Hall - Roman Catholic
St. Johns - Catholic (Vincentian)
Xavier - Catholic (Jesuit)

Another point brought up that I agree with AM and his future at UD.
If we were to join the BE, along with our fan base and facilities, he stays. Or at least, his jump-to list shrinks considerably.

I do not think we are Villanova, but I also do not think we are far behind XU, Butler, and Creighton. Those teams are in 2nd, 3rd and 4th place.

There is something to be said about Wichita State and Gonzaga, and that we can be just fine as a big fish in a small pond.

Gonzaga - would be an excellent fit for the BE, if not for the 2000 miles that separate them from the bulk of the BE, not to mention the schools on the east coast.

Wichita State - they have a good program, but are not geographically ideal, and also not a Catholic school.

If we get an invite, we are there. And I think given the way that conferences are seemingly always looking to expand, an invite may not too far away in the distance.

(Feel free to correct me on any of the religious orders, etc)

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by UDDoug So tell me, realistically, what is UD going to do to change it's conference? It's all up to the Big East. It's totally out of UD's control. All UD can do is be at a level that they would be desired if the Big East were to expand. And that doesn't seem likely in the near term.

Correct.
UD has everything necessary to position itself for the NBE - except dominating in men's basketball. It has all of the top people/coaches, facilities, financial resources, fan support in place. Dominate in the A10 and put more elite 8 runs together and the NBE will come calling. Being in the NBE will help us keep an AM type coach and we will worry less about openings at other schools. Being the known quantity that we are, as is, will help attract the next best upcoming coach every 8-12 years, but there is no guarantee that the next coach will have the same or greater success than the last coach.

[springborofan]

I think college football is in for a dramatic overhaul in the next 7-10 years. I truly believe those in the P5 (or maybe P4 X 16) will be the only scholarship teams. A combination of the P5 cutting out all the other schools, the rising costs to field a college football team, and the unfolding head injury reports will drive most of the schools not in the P5 to defund scholarship football.

There will be new opportunities to band with teams from AAC, A-10, conference USA, MVC, and Mountain West. The driver will be basketball.

[Avid Flyer]

Dayton doesn't NEED in the NBE.....Dayton NEEDS in the NCAA. Just saying.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by ud2 Ok, I remembered it differently, my mistake, I apologize.

To be fair, I probably did question can it be done, as we had 40 years of track record showing it had not through 4 different coaches. And that at the time, really only two or three non P5 schools had sustained anything long-term. Many had experienced quick bursts of two to four years, which UD had not done since the 50s and 60s.

Also to be fair, for it to be other than those quick bursts, Archie has to do it through multiple classes and UD has to do it through multiple coaches before I'd put ourselves up with Xavier and now Butler. Gonzaga has really only been through one coaching change.

Not saying it can't. There are others that have, and UD has their resources.

Also, my post wasn't directed in any way toward UD hoops or the program. To get in the Big East, the Big East has to want to expand. I don't expect them to do so. I think they like their 10 team, 18 game round robin format. I also don't think that a lot of additional money, if any, will flow to the existing members from expansion. That's why I said UD will be in the A10 for a long time. Not because of UD hoops, but because no invite is likely to go to anyone.

Right now, other than it's geography and proximity to the Cincinnati TV market, UD is in a pretty good spot. Which means they have done just about everything they can do.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer Now there's an idea. Do you think anyone would really notice if we moved the school to Daytona?

If we did, do you think the students would do a Daytona to Dayton trip at the end of the school year?

[UD90]

Pretty sure Gonzaga will be a 1-3 seed from the 11th ranked conference.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

UD Arena and Flyer
Faithful get a lot of
deserved accolades.
Can you imagine the
noise, sell-outs, etc
with the X, Nova, Marq,
Butler's of the world
regularly coming
the Decibel Dungeon.
IT WOULD BE
UNBELIEVABLE !!

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by UD90 Pretty sure Gonzaga will be a 1-3 seed from the 11th ranked conference.

Pretty sure they also beat:
Florida
Iowa St
Arizona
St. Marys

And its the 9th rated conference. You wanna take a guess what conference is 8th?
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

[flyerdube]

I like were we are, but I still like to dream of better.
If the ultimate goal of the program is making the NCAA tourney then we have our league.
Call me pie in the sky, but my dream is a Final Four/National Championship. It is more likely in a league such as the nBE than A10 because of the arguments already mentioned.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by flyerdube I like were we are, but I still like to dream of better. If the ultimate goal of the program is making the NCAA tourney then we have our league. Call me pie in the sky, but my dream is a Final Four/National Championship. It is more likely in a league such as the nBE than A10 because of the arguments already mentioned.

Completely. There are plenty of worse situations and programs. But the BE is just better than the A10.

[UD90]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Pretty sure they also beat: Florida Iowa St Arizona St. Marys And its the 9th rated conference. You wanna take a guess what conference is 8th? http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

I am going by kenpom ratings, but I am sure the A10 is 8th. You made my point. We don't need the Big East to get a good seed. We can become the Gonzaga of the midwest easier than they did it. We are a bigger fish in a bigger conference. We just need to execute. The A10 has always been 1-2 spots above the WCC.

We likely would've knocked off St. Mary's this year had we not lost Josh. We would have a RPI of 24 and likely be looking at a 6 seed right now.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by UD90 I am going by kenpom ratings, but I am sure the A10 is 8th. You made my point. We don't need the Big East to get a good seed. We can become the Gonzaga of the midwest easier than they did it. We are a bigger fish in a bigger conference. We just need to execute. The A10 has always been 1-2 spots above the WCC. We likely would've knocked off St. Mary's this year had we not lost Josh. We would have a RPI of 24 and likely be looking at a 6 seed right now.

BE gives you margin for error. If Gonzaga was in any conference they would be awesome and ranked highly. But if you have injuries or early losses, the A10 does not have the strong conference games to make up ground. Couple that with the fact that AM is more likely to stay and its a no brainer.

It's like if you apply for a job at two firms and one is much more highly regarded but has more competition. But in the end, that firm didnt hire you. But if they did, you would totally go. That is not to say the other firm is bad, you are happy to have it.

[UD62]

Being in the WWC didn't help St. Mary's last year.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by 116 Chambers We don't necessarily need to join the NBE. But what we MUST do is continue scheduling good OOC games. I also think it is IMPERATIVE that we schedule a game verses either St. Mary's, Gonzaga, or Wichita St. DURING Conference play, like this Big 12 verses SEC or XU verses UC or Nova/Virg games. Look at what those games will do for the RPIs of a lot of those teams. That would be a great way to break up a stretch where we might play Duquesne, Fordham, George Mason, UMass, etc. I would have preferred to play St. Mary's at this point of the season than so early on in the year. And I'm sure they would like that RPI boost too (same for Gonzaga & Wichita St.). Also, that would free up another day for scheduling an OOC opponent before conference play begins.

Why does it matter when we play a team? If we play a Wichita St. team at the beginning of the year and they are a top 50 win, it will be a top 50 win at the end of the year as long as they don't tank. When we play teams does not affect the RPI.

[bigred]

One reason to schedule a St. Mary's game in January or February is because its alot easier to get on ESPN/2 -- no college football to compete with.

[116 Chambers]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Why does it matter when we play a team? If we play a Wichita St. team at the beginning of the year and they are a top 50 win, it will be a top 50 win at the end of the year as long as they don't tank. When we play teams does not affect the RPI.

My reasoning for playing either Gonzaga, St. Mary's or Wichita state in Jan. or Feb. is to open up scheduling for another top RPI team in the OOC portion of the schedule. It also would give us a game against good competition during those down stretches in A-10 play (heightened this year because so many A10 teams are down). This game would also benefit either of those 3 teams as well, since they are also in the same predicament we are in...

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

This seasons "down year" is actually what is about to become the norm for the A-10. The league has peaked, losing X and Temple hurt. Half the programs in the league not being committed enough to basketball to have a gym and facilities better than your local high school does not help any either. I hope to be eating crow in a year or two, but fear I am right.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by 116 Chambers My reasoning for playing either Gonzaga, St. Mary's or Wichita state in Jan. or Feb. is to open up scheduling for another top RPI team in the OOC portion of the schedule. It also would give us a game against good competition during those down stretches in A-10 play (heightened this year because so many A10 teams are down). This game would also benefit either of those 3 teams as well, since they are also in the same predicament we are in...

But we only have so many OOC games, it doesn't open up another game because we play a game in Jan or Feb. Also, both teams would have to know well in advance that they have the same openings during the conference schedule to make that happen. Many times the dates and the times for the conference schedule is not released until well after a major portion of the OCC schedule is done. The league schedules the conference games, we have no control over that.

[UDDoug]

X major loss. Butler big loss. Temple, not so much. They are on a down swing, and are pretty much becoming a typical A10 team.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Whacker]

I think a big part of the A10's struggles have been the coaches and the albatross extensions some of the schools have signed them to.

Hurley still hasn't done anything of note at Rhody. Mooney's system at Richmond is not conducive to long-term success. The only time they've made the tourney is when they had the POY. Kellogg got a ridiculous extension they one time the stumbled into the tourney. Same with Dr. G. Ferry at Duquesne is a lost cause.

I think McKillop will be OK once he can get some higher caliber recruits. I think Wade will be able to recruit at a high enough level to sustain their success. Schmidt should be able to have the Bonnies cyclically competing for bids - I mean they should have gone last year. Paulsen is showing promise at Mason. Ford never amounted to much at UMass, but is recruiting high profile players. Will have to see if they pan out.

Just seems like the A10 is in a weird spot with a lot of coaches that haven't proven themselves and too many that have.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan This seasons "down year" is actually what is about to become the norm for the A-10. The league has peaked, losing X and Temple hurt. Half the programs in the league not being committed enough to basketball to have a gym and facilities better than your local high school does not help any either. I hope to be eating crow in a year or two, but fear I am right.

Over/under for A10 bids in the future is 2.5. This year could be a real anomaly in that we only get 1 and 2014 was when we got 6.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by UDDoug X major loss. Butler big loss. Temple, not so much. They are on a down swing, and are pretty much becoming a typical A10 team.

Butler does not count, they were not here long enough to matter, but yes would be nice to have in the A-10.

Temple is struggling a bit this year, but still has a better RPI than all but 3 teams in the A-10. Last year they won their league and 3rd place the year before. I would take Temple back in a heart beat, better than 2/3 the teams in the A-10.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 But we only have so many OOC games, it doesn't open up another game because we play a game in Jan or Feb. Also, both teams would have to know well in advance that they have the same openings during the conference schedule to make that happen. Many times the dates and the times for the conference schedule is not released until well after a major portion of the OCC schedule is done. The league schedules the conference games, we have no control over that.

Exactly. Also, I'm assuming Archie doesn't want to play a non-conference game in the middle of the conference season. If he did, we already would have done it. It would be almost impossible to cram another game into the schedule in January or February. Look at the schedule and pick a date that would allow for more than one day between games.

[Whacker]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan Butler does not count, they were not here long enough to matter, but yes would be nice to have in the A-10. Temple is struggling a bit this year, but still has a better RPI than all but 3 teams in the A-10. Last year they won their league and 3rd place the year before. I would take Temple back in a heart beat, better than 2/3 the teams in the A-10.

And a lot of that is because Dunphy is a very good coach. He'd easily be one of the top 3 in the A10 and Temple would most likely be there as well.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[oRed]

question to you Dayton Cincinnati media overlapper experts...can you give me examples of where/how the Dayton Cincinnati market overlap in college basketball because this notion completely confounds me. The only place I see sports media overlap in these markets is the NFL and MLB with the Bengals and Reds with so many Greater Miami Valley people / business with season tickets or regular attendees and listeners/watchers of the broadcast.

My best friend buys advertising in the Dayton media market and they would never consider advertising for a Cincinnati based basketball team because virtually no one is watching.

Alternately don't you think orgs like Skyline, Jeff Wyler,Cincinnati Bell, Heidelberg and anyone of about 5 pizza franchises just to name a few area advertisers would find UD attractive to their ad spend? I sure do and I'll bet Fox does as well so I think tv is on the side of inclusion but I'm not sure that's enough to overcome the Jesuits.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by oRed question to you Dayton Cincinnati media overlapper experts...can you give me examples of where/how the Dayton Cincinnati market overlap in college basketball because this notion completely confounds me. The only place I see sports media overlap in these markets is the NFL and MLB with the Bengals and Reds with so many Greater Miami Valley people / business with season tickets or regular attendees and listeners/watchers of the broadcast. My best friend buys advertising in the Dayton media market and they would never consider advertising for a Cincinnati based basketball team because virtually no one is watching. Alternately don't you think orgs like Skyline, Jeff Wyler,Cincinnati Bell, Heidelberg and anyone of about 5 pizza franchises just to name a few area advertisers would find UD attractive to their ad spend? I sure do and I'll bet Fox does as well so I think tv is on the side of inclusion but I'm not sure that's enough to overcome the Jesuits.

I don't know about all the advertising stuff, but I do know that Mo Egger(UD grad) and Lance McCalister both talk about UD basketball sometimes on 1530 and 700 in Cincy. It's not a ton but both usually include UD in the discussion when they have guys like Lunardi or Jerry Palm on.

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by oRed question to you Dayton Cincinnati media overlapper experts...can you give me examples of where/how the Dayton Cincinnati market overlap in college basketball because this notion completely confounds me. The only place I see sports media overlap in these markets is the NFL and MLB with the Bengals and Reds with so many Greater Miami Valley people / business with season tickets or regular attendees and listeners/watchers of the broadcast. My best friend buys advertising in the Dayton media market and they would never consider advertising for a Cincinnati based basketball team because virtually no one is watching.

TV markets are divided into DMAs (Designated Market Areas) for ratings purposes. Cincy is #36; Dayton is #64.

Where it gets fuzzy if a local/regional advertiser buys Fox Sports Ohio. Their spots are potentially going to be shown in markets where they don't have locations/distribution.

[oRed]

To the WLW point, WLW does have Dayton listeners because they're the long time flagship station for both the Bengals and Reds so their on air personalities aren't going to ignore Dayton. The Reds Caravan was just in Dayton within the week with a huge crowd.

Re: Dmas, True some Dayton marketers, my friends org would buy but don't have a lot of Cincinnati needs but a Flyers Big East televise matchup would trump that because their market would more than makeup for coverage outside of their target market but alternately back to my first posts the Jeff Wyler's of the region would love it.

[ruechalgrin]

Big East not happening anytime soon (5+ years) if ever barring something massive happening (Dayton back-to-back Elite 8 runs or another conference realignment or Fox big changes).

Disappointing as BE would be amazing. Dayton needs to focus on becoming the next Gonzaga.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Big East not happening anytime soon (5+ years) if ever barring something massive happening (Dayton back-to-back Elite 8 runs or another conference realignment or Fox big changes). Disappointing as BE would be amazing. Dayton needs to focus on becoming the next Gonzaga.

The problem with pointing to Gonzaga (and Butler) is that the West Coast and Horizon are/were much easier to dominate than the A10. Each of those conferences has only a couple of teams that will ever compete for the top spot. The A10 now has 2 programs (UD and VCU) that spare nothing and a number of other programs that compete enough to mess things up.

[224]

Originally Posted by CE80 The problem with pointing to Gonzaga (and Butler) is that the West Coast and Horizon are/were much easier to dominate than the A10. Each of those conferences has only a couple of teams that will ever compete for the top spot. The A10 now has 2 programs (UD and VCU) that spare nothing and a number of other programs that compete enough to mess things up.

Originally Posted by CE80 The problem with pointing to Gonzaga (and Butler) is that the West Coast and Horizon are/were much easier to dominate than the A10. Each of those conferences has only a couple of teams that will ever compete for the top spot. The A10 now has 2 programs (UD and VCU) that spare nothing and a number of other programs that compete enough to mess things up.

This is 100% correct. Aside from UD/VCU, you have a team like SBU who co-shared A10 last year and will be preseason top 3 (dare I say favorites) in A10 next year. Plus URI is on a consistent upward swing in terms of recruiting, and will project in top 4 for foreseeable future. Pretty much every other team is good enough to win the conference once every 4 years (I.e. in the last couple years St Joe, La Salle, Davidson, SLU, Richmond) have all danced.

In the WCC the conversation is as simple as 'Is St Mary's good enough to beat Zags this year, or do we pencil Gonzaga in at the top again.' Even in their best seasons, no one is thinking Pacific, Loyola Marymount, San Francisco, etc will even have a chance to win it. Unlike the A10 where SBU, URI, UD, VCU and SLU could realistically win the conference the next 5 consecutive years.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Source]

Davidson and George Mason have not seen a recruiting jump since joining the A-10. Correct?
The key to the Big East is charter member Georgetown. Sell the Thompson family lol.
Another key to expansion is the implosion of the Big 12 in 2024...yes 7 years will fly by. Big 10 wants Texas and FOX has the cash to bring them. LHTV is broke. I believe when the Big 12 and Big 10 gets sorted out the Big East will contemplate expansion. I believe 8 years remains on the BE TV contract with FOX. X gets $3.4 million per year in TV revenue from FOX compared to approx $500k per year it is last season in the A-10.
The difference in the Big East from the A-10 is aside from Depaul there are no off nights. Seton Hall was 12-8, 4-5 in conf play last night and played their hearts out to a 72-70 road loss at X. Teams aren't especially deep but have 2-3 guys who can wreak havoc. Injuries to Watson and Sumner are going to push X and Creighton's seed down from its lofty perch from December.
Dayton and UC have to continue the blue print mentioned above: Hold serve at home in conference play, steal road wins in conf, and schedule tough in Nov and December but mix in a few buy in games too.
Dayton's fan base and reputation is second to none. They have also had some serious roster adversity recently too...devastating things that we all know about.
The A-10 is cyclical. When 3-4 teams have a senior laden roster then they get 3-4 bids. Its just an odd year.

[CoffeeCan]

We played great yesterday. Yes, it had a lot to do with Duquesne. But, that is the type of game where beating a Marquette/Creighton/Butler at home would be so huge.

Indiana has a chance to "gain steam" today at Wisconsin. Even if our resumes in terms of kenpom, RPI, SOS are the same, their big time wins will have come LATE in the season versus in a neutral site game in November.

We are ready for the Big East. We need to be in the Big East. This should be the #1 focus of the athletic department. As the Flyer mens basketball program goes, so do the rest of the programs. And then we also get to keep AM for a while longer.

If we can buy all this land around campus, renovate the Arena, pay big money for a coach, buy a million dollar house for our president, we can certainly get into a top 5 conference. We need to.

Rant over.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan We played great yesterday. Yes, it had a lot to do with Duquesne. But, that is the type of game where beating a Marquette/Creighton/Butler at home would be so huge. Indiana has a chance to "gain steam" today at Wisconsin. Even if our resumes in terms of kenpom, RPI, SOS are the same, their big time wins will have come LATE in the season versus in a neutral site game in November. We are ready for the Big East. We need to be in the Big East. This should be the #1 focus of the athletic department. As the Flyer mens basketball program goes, so do the rest of the programs. And then we also get to keep AM for a while longer. If we can buy all this land around campus, renovate the Arena, pay big money for a coach, buy a million dollar house for our president, we can certainly get into a top 5 conference. We need to. Rant over.

Not a rant when every word makes sense.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan If we can buy all this land around campus, renovate the Arena, pay big money for a coach, buy a million dollar house for our president, we can certainly get into a top 5 conference. We need to.

The problem is, we can't buy our way in. They have to want us.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by longtimefan The problem is, we can't buy our way in. They have to want us.

Agree. don't get the connection of spending $$$ for campus improvements or salaries and getting into the NBE.

[CoffeeCan]

Do we know the reasons why we we not invited when it expanded?
Do we know the factors that would create an invitation?
Do we have any idea if UD even wants to get in?

No, but we hear all about everything else.
This is far more important. The basketball team IS UD in so many ways. There has to be a committee of some sort that needs to be formed. We have done so many things to better campus and improve so many facets of the UD experience. This is the final frontier. And yet, nothing from UD on anything.

[UD62]

I personally approve of the way UD handles things. They realze that putting out any preliminary information into the jungle known as the internet only leads to all kinds of mis-interpretation and conspicy theories. One only has to read this site, and others, to realize that truth is in the eyes of the beholder. Keep doing what you are doing UD. Posters, including me, haven't a clue as to the efforts and interworkings of efforts to make a change.

[FlyerBob]

I think we need to be in the BE. I also think if the expansion had occured now we'd likely been invited. Ironic we've had our best stretch run in awhile just after being snubbed. I think we have another and likely final oppty in a few years as they go from 10 to 12 to have more content for their TV contract, keeping to private schools. I think X will have a say to our candidacy due to geography and them being a current member.

I know we have cemented our brand as an awesome BB school with a fan base others can't match. I know we have the best young coach in the biz. I know we have BE type facilties. I know our program's business model results in more cash generation as profit today than most any BE school. I know academically we fight in. I know geographically we fit.

I wish I knew exactly what it would take to cement a future invite.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by FlyerBob I think we need to be in the BE. I also think if the expansion had occured now we'd likely been invited. Ironic we've had our best stretch run in awhile just after being snubbed. I think we have another and likely final oppty in a few years as they go from 10 to 12 to have more content for their TV contract, keeping to private schools. I think X will have a say to our candidacy due to geography and them being a current member. I know we have cemented our brand as an awesome BB school with a fan base others can't match. I know we have the best young coach in the biz. I know we have BE type facilties. I know our program's business model results in more cash generation as profit today than most any BE school. I know academically we fight in. I know geographically we fit. I wish I knew exactly what it would take to cement a future invite.

This is well said.
25% of the posts on this forum seemingly surround how we get jobbed by the selection committee and how we are more deserving of a big/higher seed. Yet it seems that we are taking for granted that we are an A10 school. Why not the Big East? I hope that UD62 is correct in that we are handling things and that we are not OK with swimming in a small pond, no matter how big of a fish we are.

[NJFlyr71]

I'll take something similar to the Gonzaga story line (believe they are still #1 ranked) but even if not, they have a great history over the past what 10 years maybe more.

We don't have to be in any place except for replicating the Gonzaga program. That seems to be a nice place to be!

[FlyerBob]

Not a bad plan B to be sure.

[Title_BU]

The Big East member schools just don't have any interest in any more programs right now because of the harmony of the double-bye situation as well as the success of the league. The Big East is going to get 5 or 6 this year, bringing the total to 20 or 21 of 40 possible in the four years of the league. It has been one of the Top 3 leagues in college basketball in its current history -- hard to argue it 'needs' to do anything.

There just is no catalyst. When the current 10-year media deal ends, I suppose its possible if the media partner (probably Fox again) wishes to broach the topic, it'll be discussed. But it's hard to find one new program, much less two, that moves the revenue needle for Fox. Hell, purely from a market perceptive in the footprint, SLU and Duquense probably make the most sense. But given they are both abysmal programs, they aren't getting an invite.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[CoffeeCan]

Some Dayton mentions here
http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2017...uconn-big-east

[OSUdaytonFAN]

Originally Posted by bigred One reason to schedule a St. Mary's game in January or February is because its alot easier to get on ESPN/2 -- no college football to compete with.

Jay bilas has been saying this for a while now. Start some conference games in December and schedule more OOC games in January/February. I like this idea.

[CoffeeCan]

A main difference between these two teams is one has a ton of built in great SOS games and the other does not. Also, one are a bunch of crybaby *******s but that is for another thread...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask.../XAVIER/DAYTON

[FlyerBob]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan A main difference between these two teams is one has a ton of built in great SOS games and the other does not. Also, one are a bunch of crybaby *******s but that is for another thread... http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask.../XAVIER/DAYTON

Spot on. And along with that is the fact both teams are capable of an off-night, but ours more than likely occurs on the road in a 3,000 seat HS gym to a team with such a low RPI that it's near impossible to recover in a year like this one. Brand X has that same night off and loses to a good team with lesser harm comparatively...

[ruechalgrin]

According to kenpom, Dayton would have been 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 4th the last 4 years in the BE. And Dayton has the only Elite 8 appearance beyond Villanova and second best NCAA record at 5-3 and the second most NCAA wins behind only Villanova.

Dayton could easily compete in the BE, but has accomplished all of the above in the A-10. Rather be in the BE, but we are where we are.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin According to kenpom, Dayton would have been 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 4th the last 4 years in the BE. And Dayton has the only Elite 8 appearance beyond Villanova and second best NCAA record at 5-3 and the second most NCAA wins behind only Villanova. Dayton could easily compete in the BE, but has accomplished all of the above in the A-10. Rather be in the BE, but we are where we are.

Tell that to Beatty.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin According to kenpom, Dayton would have been 3rd, 4th, 7th, and 4th the last 4 years in the BE. And Dayton has the only Elite 8 appearance beyond Villanova and second best NCAA record at 5-3 and the second most NCAA wins behind only Villanova. Dayton could easily compete in the BE, but has accomplished all of the above in the A-10. Rather be in the BE, but we are where we are.

1. What would be our seeds if we were in the BE?
2. How much farther would we have advanced due to those better seeds?
3. We are aligned, the BE is where we should be
4. The A10 is the best place to be that is not called the BE.
5. If you take this team and put it in the BE, we are a solid 7 seed
6. Instead, we are a 8-9 trending down
7. Trending down due not to our play but to our schedule
8. A schedule that we cannot control
9. As we cannot control what conference we are in
10. But we need to find a way

[jack72]

Nice article on the BE. Look about halfway down where the Commish says, no plans to expand.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jack72]

The article
How Ditching Football Saved Big East Basketball - The Wall Street Journal
https://apple.news/Af53QRiwQRVe5gzvPKaDVgA
Posted via Mobile Device

[CoffeeCan]

The fact that Cuse is going to get into the tournament (you know the committee will find SOME way of getting them in) is why we need to upgrade our conference using any and all resources, the sooner the better.

The Big East has to want us, I get that.

Yes, I am reviving this thread. Because once we get into the Big East, here are the threads that we can eliminate:

1. Why did the committee short change us again?
2. Where is the love for the non Power Conference schools?
3. How can we improve our SOS?
4. Archie is going to a Power Conference school (there is always UK, but with a better conference we hang on to him longer)
5. They had 15 top 50 opptortunites! Not fair to our 6!
6. Why can't we get good home and home games? Nobody will play us!

You get the idea.

The Syracuse-like teams that get in the dance are only going to increase year over year.

Our AD needs to do EVERYTHING possible to get in the Big East.

No AAC.

Big East or Bust.

I hate Syracuse.

I need a drink.

[funky15]

I heard at the time that when they were re-forming the Big East, Xavier and Dayton were both going to receive bids, but Xavier wouldn't join if Dayton joined. Guess they wanted Xaveir more....**** team down south....

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[funky15]

I think our scheduling needs to be a hell lot better too. This non-conference schedule this year was horrible. If we can schedule on a consistent basis some half decent teams, and beat them consistently, then I think Dayton joining a bigger conference will become a better possibility.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by funky15 I think our scheduling needs to be a hell lot better too. This non-conference schedule this year was horrible. If we can schedule on a consistent basis some half decent teams, and beat them consistently, then I think Dayton joining a bigger conference will become a better possibility.

Our non-conference schedule has been good. Just because casual basketball fans do not know this, does not mean we are playing a horrible schedule. Just look at the numbers. Our Non-Conference schedule has no affect on a conference wanting us to join.