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  #1  
Old 09-15-2023, 08:06 PM
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Conference realignment and demographics

https://www.wsj.com/articles/west-vi...pos_4#cxrecs_s

I haven't seen this mentioned or debated here, but really interesting to think about as it relates to conference realignment.

"Gordon Gee thinks higher education is at a “crossroads.” . . . in February he announced significant cuts, including the elimination of 169 faculty positions and some 30 academic programs and departments that were either lacking enrollment or too expensive to maintain.

. . . He may be the first college president to call for harsh financial measures, but he won’t be the last. . .

Colleges face a significant demographic challenge . . . The annual number of U.S. births reached a generational peak in 2007 at 4.3 million, then declined to 3.9 million in 2012 and 3.6 million in 2021. Starting with the high school class of 2025, the pool of high school graduates is expected to decline by as much as 15% over a dozen years. . .

. . . Mr. Gee’s announced cuts will hit programs across the board, from undergraduate majors that don’t attract students to expensive doctoral programs with little market demand, to make more resources available for programs in high demand like engineering and business."

If (and it's a big "if") other college presidents have to face the music, at what point do colleges wise up and say "you know, if all these basket weaving departments aren't valuable enough to keep around for the good of our state citizens, why are we sponsoring 40 money-losing sports programs?"

Not tOSU, but how about the MAC? The average attendance is about 13,000 fans for home games, so let's just say good seats are available.

Will these public institutions choose football (and rowing, gymnastics, tennis, etc.) over women's studies, philosophy, and theater while attendance is plummeting and simultaneously the value of a college education is very much in doubt?
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2023, 11:56 PM
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And when they say 13,000 in the MAC its only because thats the NCAA minimum to hold FBS status. Its all sponsor and fat cat ticket buyers that never show up but buy them up in bulk as a favor to the athletic departments to keep them compliant. Real butts in the seats on those Wednesday night games in late October are about 750 -- and thats including the 100 in the band and the ushers/concessions staff. Ive seen games where I could actually count the entire number of people in the opposing grandstand on the TV with my finger. Maybe 30 or 40 people.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2023, 08:03 AM
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Recall watching Miami O in the past on the tube and other than parents and girlfriends, the rest of the fans were disguised as empty seats.

Last edited by UD62; 09-18-2023 at 07:39 AM..
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Old 09-17-2023, 09:19 PM
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Looks like the WVU cuts are due to their failed attempt at growth. Tried to go from 33k to 40k when there aren't any additional college students out there. Instead they're now at 27k.

There is an approaching demographic issue for colleges, but the WVU debacle is a self inflicted wound.
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2023, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
Looks like the WVU cuts are due to their failed attempt at growth. Tried to go from 33k to 40k when there aren't any additional college students out there. Instead they're now at 27k.

There is an approaching demographic issue for colleges, but the WVU debacle is a self inflicted wound.
That's my point, all colleges have been on a building boom. What happens when they ALL go from 33k to 27k?
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Old 09-18-2023, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
That's my point, all colleges have been on a building boom. What happens when they ALL go from 33k to 27k?
That's a good question. I think some schools will end up closing. But shutting down athletics would happen first.
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Old 09-18-2023, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Recall watching Miami O in the past on the tube and other than parents and girlfriends, the rest of the fans were disguised as empty seats.
Time to dust off those Covid-era cut outs schools used to make it look like there were people at the games...
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Old 09-18-2023, 09:54 AM
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If nothing else, UD has navigated these issues pretty well, so far. They seem to have the right academic mix, which concentrates on business, engineering, education and computer science, and are now venturing back into nursing. They downplay the whole "woke" degree paths. They have a good setup on the real estate side, after acquiring all of the NCR properties and the fairgrounds. As for athletics, they have a cash cow with basketball that has a cult like following, and a solid stable of megadonors, and their football program is not a money pit. They have managed to avoid any national headlines in the "woke" space* and have a solid pipeline of new students via alumni and regional awareness. I have talked to many employers over the years and UD gets high marks for graduates that are ready to work, day one.

*by not offering a lot of "woke" degrees, you keep these potential problem students off your campus in the first place.
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Old 09-18-2023, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
If nothing else, UD has navigated these issues pretty well, so far. They seem to have the right academic mix, which concentrates on business, engineering, education and computer science, and are now venturing back into nursing. They downplay the whole "woke" degree paths. They have a good setup on the real estate side, after acquiring all of the NCR properties and the fairgrounds. As for athletics, they have a cash cow with basketball that has a cult like following, and a solid stable of megadonors, and their football program is not a money pit. They have managed to avoid any national headlines in the "woke" space* and have a solid pipeline of new students via alumni and regional awareness. I have talked to many employers over the years and UD gets high marks for graduates that are ready to work, day one.

*by not offering a lot of "woke" degrees, you keep these potential problem students off your campus in the first place.
This is: A) a dumb, uninformed comment and B) not at all indicative of how university administrations think.
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Old 09-18-2023, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
That's a good question. I think some schools will end up closing. But shutting down athletics would happen first.
They will just raise the price, and then the government will underwrite loans so kids can "afford it". The same thing has been happening for 50 years. There are fairly new and empty dorms on a lot of public campuses.
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Old 09-18-2023, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
This is: A) a dumb, uninformed comment and B) not at all indicative of how university administrations think.
You are very naive and either give too much or not enough credit to UD's leadership.
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Old 09-18-2023, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
You are very naive and either give too much or not enough credit to UD's leadership.
How can you give someone too much, or not enough credit for something, (presumably the same thing)?
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Old 09-18-2023, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
You are very naive and either give too much or not enough credit to UD's leadership.
Idk, I didn't realize a degree could be "woke." Perhaps you can elaborate? Is the school's Human Rights Center (and related academic programs) "woke?" And if so, why hasn't it led to the collapse of the University?
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Old 09-18-2023, 03:38 PM
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Perhaps a move to OTG is in order.
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Old 09-18-2023, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Perhaps a move to OTG is in order.
http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?p=742158#post742158
I said, some of the very same thingI said some of the very same things over there. Another thing in Ohio that has happened is the ability for high school students to earn an associates degree in high school. That means they could potentially be on campus one fewer year which means that all of those fees in addition to tuition are not collected.
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