UNLV - 2nd Half Craps

[Jeff]

We’re still six weeks from Festivus, but we can’t wait. Time to air some grievances. Holmes & Amzil kept rolling snake eyes on offense. Camara’s hurt. Elvis proved without a doubt he’s not a point. Blakney, oh never mind, this was a second half meltdown just like La Salle last year. My guess is UD(you know who) will show up today.

Have at it.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[steverino015]

what happened to Camara?

[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by steverino015 what happened to Camara?

Appeared a knee injury...

[OSU Flyer]

My amateur opinion but I don't think he would have been back out on the bench if it was something major

[pmcmullen]

I am rooting for your amateur opinion to be correct. If the second half is what we are without him, we went from #21 to about #215 by my estimation.

[steverino015]

wow.... hope it is not major and he comes back

[lhsgolf19]

Originally Posted by pmcmullen I am rooting for your amateur opinion to be correct. If the second half is what we are without him, we went from #21 to about #215 by my estimation.

lol my god, go to bed
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

If it was a ACL or something serious I'd think he'd be off to the hospital for an MRI

[OSU Flyer]

Winnable game but even with depth it's tough to weather that many injuries.

Get healthy, regroup and get ready for Atlantis

[Smitty10]

I have no idea about Camara, it was his knee if I heard correctly and the fact he was on the bench rather than a hospital doesn't tell us anything.

I'm more concerned with Deuce at this point. He was only in as a decoy after he rolled his ankle. He didn't move toward the ball, was used as an inbounder and was totally stationary on defense. Even though he didn't give us any direct offense prior to rolling his ankle, his defense played a major part in our 1st half lead.

This team needs all it's bodies, and that includes Washington because it doesn't look like the injuries are going to stop Mike hasn't learned how to stay out of foul trouble.

Also, the fact that this would've been a game for Zimi to get a chance and step up, and he didn't, tells me that he's not going to be much help this season either.

How'd we go from talking about all our depth about a month ago to this?

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I have no idea about Camara, it was his knee if I heard correctly and the fact he was on the bench rather than a hospital doesn't tell us anything. I'm more concerned with Deuce at this point. He was only in as a decoy after he rolled his ankle. He didn't move toward the ball, was used as an inbounder and was totally stationary on defense. Even though he didn't give us any direct offense prior to rolling his ankle, his defense played a major part in our 1st half lead. This team needs all it's bodies, and that includes Washington because it doesn't look like the injuries are going to stop Mike hasn't learned how to stay out of foul trouble. Also, the fact that this would've been a game for Zimi to get a chance and step up, and he didn't, tells me that he's not going to be much help this season either. How'd we go from talking about all our depth about a month ago to this?

I wouldn't write Zimi off over one game

Isn't the standard protocol for a serious injury to send to the hospital ASAP for an MRI/X-Ray?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer I wouldn't write Zimi off over one game Isn't the standard protocol for a serious injury to send to the hospital ASAP for an MRI/X-Ray?

It's not one, it's all of last season also. I personally don't think he's a fit for what this team wants and needs to do. He doesn't play fast and doesn't play strong.

As for standard protocol for serious injury, not sure. Many times we hear they are getting MRI and X-Rays the next morning. And if it was enough to keep him out the 2nd half, how are they going to know if it's serious or not without getting those things?

[ud2]

On the one UNLV possession with around 5? minutes left in the game, we gave up 3 or 4 offensive rebounds in a row. That was really painful to watch.

The offense stalled out down the stretch also.

Mike needs to stay out of foul trouble, that hurt them badly IMO.

We had some out of control possessions down the stretch where we either turned the ball over or took a rushed bad shot.

We couldn't get defensive stops when we needed them down the stretch.

I still think these tougher road games are a good idea to schedule, and I hope that we continue to schedule them. These type of games really test you and force you to be resilient.

[lhsgolf19]

Jablonski says both Camara and Holmes expect to play Saturday
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[T-Bone 84]

Last night seemed to prove, conclusively, that Elvis is not a facilitator at PG. Make no mistake: he’s a solid player, and a necessary cog in this machine. It’s just that he’s not a pass-first PG (and he doesn’t play one on TV, either).

That said, there are plenty of reasons why we lost this one. No frontcourt scoring. More turnovers than a Parisian bakery. And, yes, injures that essentially made Camara, Holmes, and Nwokeji cannon fodder in the 2nd Half, and made this the debut appearances of Brea and Amafuele (both of whom showed noticeable rust).

Welp. Nothing we can do about it now. On to RMU.
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Jablonski says both Camara and Holmes expect to play Saturday Posted via Mobile Device

I'm praying that you're right because our post defense was swiss cheese after both were injured - which shows the value of each when healthy.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Also, the fact that this would've been a game for Zimi to get a chance and step up, and he didn't, tells me that he's not going to be much help this season either.

Zimi never returned after leaving the game with 18 to go and heading to locker room with something on his face bleeding.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 I still think these tougher road games are a good idea to schedule, and I hope that we continue to schedule them. These type of games really test you and force you to be resilient.

I agree, but these games are also the quickest way to punch your ticket to the NIT.

[Jeff]

More thoughts:

1) Mike is the real deal. He can score....what a shot! He's a freshman and taking freshman fouls. That will improve.
2) Elvis is OK at the point - with limited pressure AND a lead. When the team falls behind, he drifts away from PG to shooting guard - quickly. Ditto when he gets hot. When he hits a few jumpers - he reverts to being a creator for his shot (which is not a bad attribute) in place of running the offense. The former happened after UNLV took the lead, and the latter happened in the first half.
3) AG was super conservative with Camara by yanking him. He did the same at LaSalle last year. He's thinking about the rest of the OOC and the league.
4) Brea looked rusty. His shot looked good. Expect him to contribute more & more.
5) Amzil & Holmes (prior to the ankle) didnt pull their weight on offense. That's the bottom line.
6) Zimi still looked a little lost.
7) Richard - not ready for prime time. (rehabbing?)
8) You know who I haven't commented on....come on, you know. Blakney. I know it's three games, but is he any more the player than last year? Disappeared for a huge part of the game. And now the comment many are sure not to agree with - His minutes have to drop in favor of Mike, once Mali comes back and Brea rounds into shape. There's no denying MM is a big time player with a fantastic shot.
9) Based on last year and three whole games this year:
Brea & MM are the two guys that can catch a ball in motion, and get off a good shot. Elvis, Blakney, Amzil, have to catch the ball with their feet planted to bang a three. Blakney can still pick up 20 minutes a game, but I doubt his role will every grow into anything more than what it is......a defender who occasionally hits a shot.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer I agree, but these games are also the quickest way to punch your ticket to the NIT.

Torvik moved UNLV up to a projected finish of 86. If they improve 11 more spots, this will be a q1 loss, right now it is a q2 loss, this is not a terrible loss. Of course, the Torvik rankings are not the official NCAA NET rankings.


Quadrant 1: Home 1-30, Neutral 1-50, Away 1-75
Quadrant 2: Home 31-75, Neutral 51-100, Away 76-135

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer I agree, but these games are also the quickest way to punch your ticket to the NIT.

IF we trade this one for the three home losses last year, it shouldn't penalize the team.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by ud2 Torvik moved UNLV up to a projected finish of 86. If they improve 11 more spots, this will be a q1 loss, right now it is a q2 loss, this is not a terrible loss. Of course, the Torvik rankings are not the official NCAA NET rankings. Quadrant 1: Home 1-30, Neutral 1-50, Away 1-75 Quadrant 2: Home 31-75, Neutral 51-100, Away 76-135

It is a bad loss in that it torpedoed us out of the Top25, and that needs to be our goal for this year, not just making the NCAA. Scheduling a game out West at 11:15 PM was bad scheduling. We should have insisted on 8 or 9 PM, or no game.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by jack72 It is a bad loss in that it torpedoed us out of the Top25, and that needs to be our goal for this year, not just making the NCAA. Scheduling a game out West at 11:15 PM was bad scheduling. We should have insisted on 8 or 9 PM, or no game.

If we're honest with ourselves, we are not a top 25 team when we don't have Mali. And we are when we do as long as Deuce and Camara are healthy on the floor with him.

A team has to have a legitimate PG on the floor no matter what else they have at any other position.

This is a team that has to get healthy and claw their way back into the top 25. I'm alright with that because I think they will do it.

[jack72]

We may not be a Top 25 team without Smith or Holmes or Camara healthy. We at least have Elvis and Mike at point, what do we have at center, or rebounding??

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by jack72 It is a bad loss in that it torpedoed us out of the Top25, and that needs to be our goal for this year, not just making the NCAA. Scheduling a game out West at 11:15 PM was bad scheduling. We should have insisted on 8 or 9 PM, or no game.

TV is who picks when the game is, not UD or UNLV. It's either 11:00 or not on TV.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by jack72 We may not be a Top 25 team without Smith or Holmes or Camara healthy. We at least have Elvis and Mike at point, what do we have at center, or rebounding??

First of all Elvis and Mike gave us a total of one assist and 8 turnovers last night.

Who'd we have at center in 2015, 2016, 2017? Less than we do now that's for sure.

How often have we had a backup center we'd be happy with playing 35 minutes a game?

Teams can win with 3 forwards, they can't without a PG.

For a team that's had a difficult time over the years finding an impact center, I'm surprised you think we should be deep at the position when we finally find an Obi and then a Deuce.

It's pretty simple, injuries to your key players will always derail a season. If you don't have a good PG, your season is already derailed.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by jack72 It is a bad loss in that it torpedoed us out of the Top25, and that needs to be our goal for this year, not just making the NCAA. Scheduling a game out West at 11:15 PM was bad scheduling. We should have insisted on 8 or 9 PM, or no game.

TV gods make the call on that. I still don't like it on a weeknight with that type of travel. Not to mention backing it up 1pm on Saturday.

[The Joint]

Tough loss but this game is a scheduling win. Good game vs a brand name opponent in a great destination for fans. Good enough opponent that a road win would have been a nice boost, but a loss doesn't hurt too badly.

CBS Sports promoted game and spent a ton of time talking up UD during the prior game and halftime. Now we get them at home next year.

Now win the gimmes and get scalp or two in the Bahamas.

[zmz723]

Originally Posted by Jeff More thoughts: 8) You know who I haven't commented on....come on, you know. Blakney. I know it's three games, but is he any more the player than last year? Disappeared for a huge part of the game. And now the comment many are sure not to agree with - His minutes have to drop in favor of Mike, once Mali comes back and Brea rounds into shape. There's no denying MM is a big time player with a fantastic shot.

He's another one that hasn't developed nearly as well as I hoped by their 3rd year/junior season. If RJ, Amzil and Zimi can't be dependable depth guys (and Elvis can't be more consistent), it may not matter how good Camara, Holmes and Mali are

[Gazoo]

Let me see if I've got the right. Without our starting PG and with our SF (our best shooter) playing his first minutes of the year, we built a 14 point lead on the road against a reasonable team.

Then, in the second half, without our starting 1, 4, at times 5, and with the possible starting 3 having limited legs, and the likely starting 2 (Mike) limited in minutes from fouls, and the backup to the backup 4 in the locker room, you're saying we LOST?

Geeze, if this team can't overcome a little adversity on the road, allow me to skip ahead to next season.

C'mon guys. With Camara we win that game. Camara played 12 minutes and had 6 rebounds. Amzil played 35 floppy minutes, and Brea was forced to play 25 he wasn't ready for.

So let's talk about the good.

-Elvis can score. He can't play point for more than a few minutes at a time, but he is a really good player. And looks like he'll be our backup 2 instead of our starting 1. He'll be our Microwave off the bench.

-Mike. Is. Awesome. The pass he put on Camara's hand on that fast break (the one with the home cooking traveling call), go watch that again. That should be on the highlight reel for the year! That pass only gets completed if it's dead solid perfect. He scores, he rebounds, assists, handles the ball well, 3 steals on the night, and when he figures out the defense HOLY COW.

-Are we forgetting we held UNLV to 60 points, by playing a group of backups??? For a lot of minutes our lineup was the backup 2 playing the 1, the starting 3 playing his first minutes of the year at the 2, the backup 3, the backup to the backup 4, and a guy who's name we don't know how to pronounce yet because it's his first 2 minutes of his career. That team. 60 points. On the road.

F'ing aye right I'm not upset.

[OSU Flyer]

When everyone is completely healthy, is Mike still in the starting line up?

[OSU Flyer]

granted it's a Tuesday night with a later a tip but I was surprised a Top 25 team coming to town didn't put more fans in the stands for UNLV

[springborofan]

Great post Gazoo.

No one likes to lose but it was obvious 5 minutes into the 2nd half that there was no way to overcome Camara’s injury. Not with Holmes a little gimpy, no starting PG, and Brea rusty.

In the game thread an AG hater popped off about how it was all AG’s fault. Something about in game adjustments. SMH (I refuse to even acknowledge UDS***t).

A healthy Camara keeps their top scorer down and gets additional rebounds. That right there is the game. Mike will learn to stop reaching. One less foul gives AG more flexibility on when to keep him on the bench. But it was all AG’s fault…

[Class of 73 Alum]

Does anyone know if UNLV comes to UD next yr?

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Class of 73 Alum Does anyone know if UNLV comes to UD next yr?

It is a H/H series, more than likely the Rebs show up next year not later.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 First of all Elvis and Mike gave us a total of one assist and 8 turnovers last night. Who'd we have at center in 2015, 2016, 2017? Less than we do now that's for sure. How often have we had a backup center we'd be happy with playing 35 minutes a game? Teams can win with 3 forwards, they can't without a PG. For a team that's had a difficult time over the years finding an impact center, I'm surprised you think we should be deep at the position when we finally find an Obi and then a Deuce. It's pretty simple, injuries to your key players will always derail a season. If you don't have a good PG, your season is already derailed.

Elvis and Mike also gave us 30 pts last night, and a win against SMU. If Camara plays the second half, we probably win. We smoked UNLV the first half. Second half with no Camara and and an injured Holmes playing with no backup, we got smoked.

In 2015, we had Big Steve, Cunningham and Pollard. In 2016, we had Cunningham and Pollard. In 2017, we had Cunningham and Kostas. So not less, because our backup last year was Sissoku, and this year it is who? If Holmes goes down, we have to play small ball.

My post is not about finding a great backup center, because we won't at Dayton, nor will we find a great backup point guard. Do you think that 7 footer from CA is coming here if Holmes stays? Na baby na. Do we have a commitment from another decent point guard to backup Smith, Mike and Elvis? Won't happen.

Injuries to your best guys are always a problem, and to say that one position is most important is pure opinion. When Obi left we had two good point guards. How did that work out?

[Swampy Meadows]

UD dropped to #30 in KenPom. I believe they were like #24 prior to the UNLV debacle. The Flyers will probably fall out of the AP Top 25 as well but should be one of the top "Other teams getting votes."

Not a precipitous drop in either case and a good showing in the Battle 4 Atlantis should send UD back up the list.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Not a precipitous drop in either case and a good showing in the Battle 4 Atlantis should send UD back up the list.

Agreed, but the question is whether we can reasonably expect a good showing based on what we've seen so far. Even if Mali is back, he'll be shaking off a lot of rust.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by jack72 Elvis and Mike also gave us 30 pts last night, and a win against SMU. If Camara plays the second half, we probably win. We smoked UNLV the first half. Second half with no Camara and and an injured Holmes playing with no backup, we got smoked. In 2015, we had Big Steve, Cunningham and Pollard. In 2016, we had Cunningham and Pollard. In 2017, we had Cunningham and Kostas. So not less, because our backup last year was Sissoku, and this year it is who? If Holmes goes down, we have to play small ball. My post is not about finding a great backup center, because we won't at Dayton, nor will we find a great backup point guard. Do you think that 7 footer from CA is coming here if Holmes stays? Na baby na. Do we have a commitment from another decent point guard to backup Smith, Mike and Elvis? Won't happen. Injuries to your best guys are always a problem, and to say that one position is most important is pure opinion. When Obi left we had two good point guards. How did that work out?

Pollard and Cunnigham were not centers. And Big Steve couldn't stay on the floor because he'd accumulate 3 fouls in his first 3 minutes.

We now have Amaefule, so if all you're looking for is another Sissoko, we might have that(you certainly can't base whether we do or don't on his few rusty minutes last night).

If you think PG is just another position, I don't know what to tell you. There are many ways to win without a center as we proved through Archie's years. We have yet to prove we can win without a PG. And scoring points is down the list from what you want from your PG. It didn't work out well when B-Rob had to play it and isn't working out well with Elvis playing it. A PG must facilitate the offense by getting others to score.

Does having a good PG guarantee winning? Nope, but you can't win without one.

PGs of the most successful Flyers teams over the past 55 years.

Bobby Joe Hooper
Johnny Davis
Sedric Toney
Negele Knight
Ramod Marshall
Scoochie Smith
Jalen Crutcher

Does Elvis or Freshman Mike conjure up the same confidence quarterbacking the team that those 7 names do? Not a chance.

But you know who does, conference all-rookie team PG and MVP of the ESPN Invitational(think win over Kansas) Mali Smith. And dare I say it, yes I will. The best Flyers' rookie season at PG since the greatest, Johnny Davis.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Gazoo -Elvis can score. He can't play point for more than a few minutes at a time, but he is a really good player. And looks like he'll be our backup 2 instead of our starting 1. He'll be our Microwave off the bench.

Who's pushing Elvis out of the starting line up?

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Gazoo So let's talk about the good. -Elvis can score. He can't play point for more than a few minutes at a time, but he is a really good player. And looks like he'll be our backup 2 instead of our starting 1. He'll be our Microwave off the bench. -Mike. Is. Awesome. The pass he put on Camara's hand on that fast break (the one with the home cooking traveling call), go watch that again. That should be on the highlight reel for the year! That pass only gets completed if it's dead solid perfect. He scores, he rebounds, assists, handles the ball well, 3 steals on the night, and when he figures out the defense HOLY COW.

Agree on Mike. IMO, he has earned the right to start when Mali comes back. regardless, It will be interesting to see how the 80 guard minutes will be divided up. Our depth should prevent Mali from playing 35 minutes a game. But, assuming Mali gets 30, that leaves 50 for Elvis, Brea, and Mike.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer When everyone is completely healthy, is Mike still in the starting line up?

gee, for my money he is in 'til he graduates. His touch, court sense, under standing the whole court, is off the charts. Any drawbacks you can blame on his young age.l

[OSU Flyer]

I'll be ineterested to see if AG goes with any small ball lineups when everyone is healthy.

A Mali, Kobe, Koby, Mike and a big lineup could be interesting

[CraSch]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Who's pushing Elvis out of the starting line up?

Possibly Mike. I personally don't know, just listing as a possibility because he seems to shoot as well/better than Elvis and is already a better passer. Now he just needs to learn how to play defense with his entire body and not just his hands....I don't mean trying to muscle up as a defender, but learn to move his feet better and get in/stay in position better.

Or possibly Elvis stays starting and Mike goes to Super sub.

Add in the return of Brea, the possible starting lineups of 1 thru 3 with Mali, Elvis, Mike, RJ, and Brea becomes fun and fascinating.....and hopefully AG will find the way that it all works out great.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer gee, for my money he is in 'til he graduates. His touch, court sense, under standing the whole court, is off the charts. Any drawbacks you can blame on his young age.l

I think to keep harmony, Mike goes to the bench when we're at full strength.

But, at the first time out he replaces either Elvis or RJ. Which ever of those two that stays in, Mike moves over to their spot when they get rested a little later on. And then(this is when Mali is fully recovered keep in mind) he then moves over to PG(or shared PG with Elvis) to give Mali a breather. He also can be used to give Camara a breather also but that will be rare as Amzil has that role sewn up for now. And of course when Deuce gets a breather, we can move Camara to the 5 and still use Mike at the 4 if need be.

Mike will get his minutes, but I believe he will get them as the first player off the bench and then play for about 12 straight minutes and then be in and out as they approach the half and end of game.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think to keep harmony, Mike goes to the bench when we're at full strength. But, at the first time out he replaces either Elvis or RJ. Which ever of those two that stays in, Mike moves over to their spot when they get rested a little later on. And then(this is when Mali is fully recovered keep in mind) he then moves over to PG(or shared PG with Elvis) to give Mali a breather. He also can be used to give Camara a breather also but that will be rare as Amzil has that role sewn up for now. And of course when Deuce gets a breather, we can move Camara to the 5 and still use Mike at the 4 if need be. Mike will get his minutes, but I believe he will get them as the first player off the bench and then play for about 12 straight minutes and then be in and out as they approach the half and end of game.

I hope not. He's good.....very good. By next year better than Elvis or Brea. But there should be plenty of minutes for all four.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Who's pushing Elvis out of the starting line up?

Mike, it seems like it just has to happen. Mike is too good not to be a starter. AG will figure out what works best for the team but I could definitely see our best starting lineup being Mali, Mike, Blakney (because not everyone has to be shoot-first), Camara, and Holmes.

Mike isn't a score-first player, so sub Elvis when Mali or Mike needs a break and at the same time you're taking out Holmes or Camara. Our offense has seriously stagnated with the second line, by putting Elvis into that line we can basically tell him to go wild with Amzil and Blakney on the floor, 2 guys who don't generate their own shot.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jeff I hope not. He's good.....very good. By next year better than Elvis or Brea. But there should be plenty of minutes for all four.

Me either. He does so many things well and better than Elvis that he has earned it in 3 games. Harmony is great when it doesn’t push someone more deserving down to achieve it. If Mike has warranted a starting spot he should get it. Aren’t we always taking about recruiting over people? You can’t do that and then put harmony or loyalty in front of winning and earning.

Elvis may have shown his ceiling or at least a glimpse of it at this point. He has plenty of visuals from last year of what he needed to work on for this year and to me has shown little improvement in those growth areas. He’s done better on TOs and driving into the lane with nowhere to go. I’ve seen little court vision, facilitate improvement. In essence, by not becoming a better PG he’s pigeon holed himself into a single spot - the 2 - when all are healthy. That’s gonna make it real hard for him to get more than 20 mpg unless he’s consistently lighting it up at the 2 once everyone is healthy.

Mike’s ceiling on the other hand is still in a different stratosphere and the quicker he can get there the better. Keep him starting !
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

One other thing. It's going to come down to who adds more defensively between Elvis and Mike. Knowing Mike's defense comes with lots of fouls, I once again, predict he's on the bench when the game begins.

[zmz723]

Mike is terrible on ball (through 3 games) but his instincts and awareness are awesome.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CT Flyer]

What has Blakney proven to keep himself in the starting lineup?

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Mike, it seems like it just has to happen. Mike is too good not to be a starter. AG will figure out what works best for the team but I could definitely see our best starting lineup being Mali, Mike, Blakney (because not everyone has to be shoot-first), Camara, and Holmes. Mike isn't a score-first player, so sub Elvis when Mali or Mike needs a break and at the same time you're taking out Holmes or Camara. Our offense has seriously stagnated with the second line, by putting Elvis into that line we can basically tell him to go wild with Amzil and Blakney on the floor, 2 guys who don't generate their own shot.

This doesn't make any sense. We need Mike to be Mali's backup. We need Elvis to go back to his actual position.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer What has Blakney proven to keep himself in the starting lineup?

It's a totally fair question, but my answer is that it has more to do with blending a team together than it does having your best 5 start the game. The way I see the team coming together looks like this:

Mali - controls the game on offense by putting people in the right position and keeping the defense constantly scared of his ability to penetrate (something Mike, Blakney, Amzil, nobody else brings, even Elvis). On defense he's a total spark plug.

Mike - all around player but not an aggressive driver and a below average on-ball defender so far.

Holmes - you know what you get here, centerpiece of the offense and defense

Camara: aggressive rebounder, dominant defender, scores from the post and the man deserves his shots for all the work he does.

Now what do you mix into that as a 5th player? Elvis, who's going to take shots away from Mike, Holmes, and Camara? Amzil, who is another poor on-ball defender? Brea, clearly a shoot-first player and OK defender?

Maybe Brea. But the advantage of Blakney with that starting group is that he takes pressure off Mike with his defense + he doesn't take shots away from the other guys.

Now your second line is, for example, Elvis, Brea, Amzil, Camara/Holmes, and let's say Mike (Mali gets a break). Amzil and Brea are more effective as spot up shooters, Camara/Holmes becomes a black hole, so Elvis is the spark with that lineup. But if you've got Blakney on the floor with this lineup (Mike, Brea, Amzil, Camara, Blakney), you've got a bunch of people standing around looking for someone to do something. The offense seriously stagnates.

So to me it's more about creating a more effective second line, while taking advantage of Blakney's attributes with the first line, and it is putting your best 5 scorers on the floor to start the game.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo This doesn't make any sense. We need Mike to be Mali's backup. We need Elvis to go back to his actual position.

So, as I said, sub in Elvis when Mali / Mike needs a break.

Making Mike the PG when Mali needs a break.

And Elvis the 2.

Mike subs out for Elvis, Mali is still the PG. Mali subs out for Elvis, Mike is the PG. They've both starting they're not both subbing out at the same time.

Glad we're on the same page.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Glad we're on the same page.

We aren't in the same book dude. I have zero desire to see Mike supplant Elvis in the starting lineup. That is tweaking for the sense of tweaking. We have a starting SG and he's awesome. I want Mike to do what he was recruited to do: be a backup PG. The only one we have. Obviously, we don't have a ton of SGs either so he will get minutes there (and at the 3, probably).

[N2663R]

Got back from your game late last night. I’m not going to go into much at all about happened on the court. We all saw that. This is about everything else. First, a UD grad is a part owner of the Circa hotel in Vegas. It’s a new hotel in the old downtown section of Vegas, but it is an outstanding property. The sports book and the stadium swim are phenomenal. Definitely worth a trip. It is completely 21 and over, though. No kids even in the rooms.

The Thomas & Mack Center has seen its better days. That property is a tear down waiting to happen. Be thankful we have UD Arena. There were 7000-8000 “fans” (holds 18000) which included 200-300 UNLV women athletes who were recognition halftime. Otherwise they really had no student section. Their pep band was a hodgepodge of students which brings me to a (sour grapes?) question for the board. It has always been my understanding that that whenever the clock is running, the pep band cannot be playing, and certainly cannot use the PA system to broadcast the band. I thought this was an NCAA rule??? That was not the case at UNLV. Several times, you could plainly hear the pep band playing through the PA system while the clock was running. In addition, they had an emcee/hip hop loser who a couple of times was ginning up the crowd during the game, over the PA system - again, is that allowed??? Overall, it was just a very sleazy experience at the arena.

[Smitty10]

Lineup of Mali, Elvis, RJ, Camara, Holmes

Went 15-3 against our conference opponents last season(16-3 if you count they were kicking Richmond's butt in A10 tourney until Mali went down.

Of those 3 losses, 2 of them were by 1 point (VCU last second 3 pointer) and George Mason.

The other two losses in conference was an 11 point loss to St. Louis. They also lost to LaSalle by 2 but Camara was injured and didn't play so that's not counted here.

When Mali comes back and the other 4 starters from last season are healthy, that's the starting lineup.

I will wager anybody on that. There's just too many reasons it makes sense. And I expect Mike will get almost as many minutes with 4 of those guys as Blakney and Elvis, just not to start the game. Which makes lots of sense because when you have a crucial player who tends to get into foul trouble, it's best to get a feel for the opponent's offense before sending him in the game.

Now, if after, that lineup fails, Mike probably will be inserted into the starting lineup. But when available for the first time this season, we will start last year's starting 5.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Lineup of Mali, Elvis, RJ, Camara, Holmes Went 15-3 against our conference opponents last season(16-3 if you count they were kicking Richmond's butt in A10 tourney until Mali went down. Of those 3 losses, 2 of them were by 1 point (VCU last second 3 pointer) and George Mason. The other two losses in conference was an 11 point loss to St. Louis. They also lost to LaSalle by 2 but Camara was injured and didn't play so that's not counted here. When Mali comes back and the other 4 starters from last season are healthy, that's the starting lineup. I will wager anybody on that. There's just too many reasons it makes sense. And I expect Mike will get almost as many minutes with 4 of those guys as Blakney and Elvis, just not to start the game. Which makes lots of sense because when you have a crucial player who tends to get into foul trouble, it's best to get a feel for the opponent's offense before sending him in the game. Now, if after, that lineup fails, Mike probably will be inserted into the starting lineup. But when available for the first time this season, we will start last year's starting 5.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I will say that the same lineup could also be described as missing the NCAA tournament last year and finishing 3rd in a fairly bad conference. They're not Duke. It's not like, as a hypothetical, there are zero players we could add to the team that *could* make them even better.


I happen to believe Mike is that player. But there are definitely arguments to be made that Elvis should start.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo We aren't in the same book dude. I have zero desire to see Mike supplant Elvis in the starting lineup. That is tweaking for the sense of tweaking. We have a starting SG and he's awesome. I want Mike to do what he was recruited to do: be a backup PG. The only one we have. Obviously, we don't have a ton of SGs either so he will get minutes there (and at the 3, probably).

I outlined my reasons above that show how blending the first line and second line makes more sense to me having Elvis come off the bench. I'll put my analysis up against yours, which is that "we have a SG and he's awesome." Mkay. Deep thoughts. You do you.

I fully admit Mike could end up as a backup. It's not a clear cut decision. I think not, and our thoughts on this plus a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee (but don't forget the quarter, as the saying goes).

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I'm not saying you're wrong. I will say that the same lineup could also be described as missing the NCAA tournament last year and finishing 3rd in a fairly bad conference. They're not Duke. It's not like, as a hypothetical, there are zero players we could add to the team that *could* make them even better. I happen to believe Mike is that player. But there are definitely arguments to be made that Elvis should start.

I thought we finished 2nd last year?

Also, that was not the starting lineup when we tacked on those first 3 losses in buy games at the arena. And as mentioned, Camara wasn't there in that killer LaSalle loss and Mali going down against Richmond caused that loss. So since we were the first team out, that starting lineup did not cause us to miss the NCAA tournament that year. Starting lineups that included Brea, Weaver and Amzil did.

And really, as long as Mike, Elvis and RJ all get their minutes with each other and Mali, Camara and Holmes, it makes no difference. However, removing RJ or Elvis from last year's starting lineup before they are all healthy enough to play with each for the first this year would probably cause some resentment that would hurt the team in general. All things being almost equal, you don't rock the boat.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I outlined my reasons above that show how blending the first line and second line makes more sense to me having Elvis come off the bench. I'll put my analysis up against yours, which is that "we have a SG and he's awesome." Mkay. Deep thoughts. You do you. I fully admit Mike could end up as a backup. It's not a clear cut decision. I think not, and our thoughts on this plus a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee (but don't forget the quarter, as the saying goes).

It’s the best analysis I’ve read on this topic. For far too many years we’ve had a ‘second line’ substitution where looking at it I ask where is the scoring going to come from? The hope is that this group can play the 4-5 minutes needed and doesn’t give back too much of the lead.

Your suggestion not only provides scorers in each lineup but provides it with completely different offensive looks that the opponent has to adjust to. That second group can actually add to a lead not just try to hold serve.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Lineup of Mali, Elvis, RJ, Camara, Holmes Went 15-3 against our conference opponents last season(16-3 if you count they were kicking Richmond's butt in A10 tourney until Mali went down. Of those 3 losses, 2 of them were by 1 point (VCU last second 3 pointer) and George Mason. The other two losses in conference was an 11 point loss to St. Louis. They also lost to LaSalle by 2 but Camara was injured and didn't play so that's not counted here. When Mali comes back and the other 4 starters from last season are healthy, that's the starting lineup. I will wager anybody on that. There's just too many reasons it makes sense. And I expect Mike will get almost as many minutes with 4 of those guys as Blakney and Elvis, just not to start the game. Which makes lots of sense because when you have a crucial player who tends to get into foul trouble, it's best to get a feel for the opponent's offense before sending him in the game. Now, if after, that lineup fails, Mike probably will be inserted into the starting lineup. But when available for the first time this season, we will start last year's starting 5.

Good points. Let's face it who starts IS important to the players. Too many times I've seen Elvis both in person and on TV, become a head case. Which may happen if he's not starting. So, to your point, he may start, but if you have a better option in Mike, he's gotta have more minutes. Elvis is not exactly a lock down on ball defender either.

What stands out to me in the "games lost" discussion is both UNLV the other day, and La Salle, which I saw here in Philly first hand. In both cases, the opponent came out with a strategy, to which AG did not make an adjustment. AS an example, at UNLV, they were packing around Holmes. I found myself asking why they didnt bring him out top for a pick & roll. Either Elvis and Mike can't execute the concept, or AG didnt consider it. We simply stayed in the base offense.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Jeff Good points. Let's face it who starts IS important to the players. Too many times I've seen Elvis both in person and on TV, become a head case. Which may happen if he's not starting. So, to your point, he may start, but if you have a better option in Mike, he's gotta have more minutes. Elvis is not exactly a lock down on ball defender either. What stands out to me in the "games lost" discussion is both UNLV the other day, and La Salle, which I saw here in Philly first hand. In both cases, the opponent came out with a strategy, to which AG did not make an adjustment. AS an example, at UNLV, they were packing around Holmes. I found myself asking why they didnt bring him out top for a pick & roll. Either Elvis and Mike can't execute the concept, or AG didnt consider it. We simply stayed in the base offense.

Exactly. The head case thing is the main reason we allow that starting lineup from last year a chance before anything else. That's mainly what my "don't rock the boat" theory is about. And yes, if Elvis starts but only gets 18 minutes but Mike gets 35, no problem with that at all(each individual game should dictate how that plays out).

And of course this is all based on the assumption that Mike doesn't feel slighted by not starting and I'm guessing he would understand and realize his time will come when he gets that honor of starting.

What I get out of your 2nd paragraph is that AG hasn't had a good plan for when Camara isn't available. Maybe, or maybe there just isn't a plan that will work well without him. Hopefully from this point forward, we never have to find out.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer It’s the best analysis I’ve read on this topic. For far too many years we’ve had a ‘second line’ substitution where looking at it I ask where is the scoring going to come from? The hope is that this group can play the 4-5 minutes needed and doesn’t give back too much of the lead. Your suggestion not only provides scorers in each lineup but provides it with completely different offensive looks that the opponent has to adjust to. That second group can actually add to a lead not just try to hold serve. Posted via Mobile Device

This is where I completely disagree. With the team we have now, you don't need full 4 or 5 player substitutions. Especially because of Mike. You start last year's starting 5. You pull either Elvis or RJ first and replace with Mike, next you pull the one between Elvis and RJ that you left in and replace with Amzil. You then pull Mali for a breather and move Mike or Elvis to PG for a few. You put Mali and RJ back in the game to give Camara a short breather, you put Camara back and let him play the 5 for a few while Deuce gets a blow and so on.

Of course I don't expect it to totally work like this, you got to get Brea, Zimi and maybe Amaefule in the game at points too. But whole line substitutions should only happen when we blow a team out of the water.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think to keep harmony, Mike goes to the bench when we're at full strength. But, at the first time out he replaces either Elvis or RJ. Which ever of those two that stays in, Mike moves over to their spot when they get rested a little later on. And then(this is when Mali is fully recovered keep in mind) he then moves over to PG(or shared PG with Elvis) to give Mali a breather. He also can be used to give Camara a breather also but that will be rare as Amzil has that role sewn up for now. And of course when Deuce gets a breather, we can move Camara to the 5 and still use Mike at the 4 if need be. Mike will get his minutes, but I believe he will get them as the first player off the bench and then play for about 12 straight minutes and then be in and out as they approach the half and end of game.

I could see that scenario unless Mike hack's his way back to the bench with a couple of quick fouls. Right now he is a precocious puppy, but for my money a dam good one.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I thought we finished 2nd last year? Also, that was not the starting lineup when we tacked on those first 3 losses in buy games at the arena. And as mentioned, Camara wasn't there in that killer LaSalle loss and Mali going down against Richmond caused that loss. So since we were the first team out, that starting lineup did not cause us to miss the NCAA tournament that year. Starting lineups that included Brea, Weaver and Amzil did.

We can quibble. But, if we did have those players at those key times, we would be, let's say, the #60 team not the #69 team?

Players mature over a summer, but they generally don't mature by 50 spots right? I don't think #60 is good enough for this year. That's why I'm just saying: at full strength "that" team is good. Is it good enough? Maybe. I don't think so. I've been wrong before.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer I could see that scenario unless Mike hack's his way back to the bench with a couple of quick fouls. Right now he is a precocious puppy, but for my money a dam good one.

Yes, he is. And let me make clear that I think starting Mike instead of either RJ or Elvis might make that starting lineup even more formidable. I certainly think that in short time Mike becomes a more valuable player right there with Mali, Camara and Deuce. But I'm not suggesting that by not starting that also means we doesn't get the most minutes out of him. I'm just suggesting that demoting RJ or Elvis will cause more problems than it's worth while Mike going to the bench to start games is not a demotion but a player that started due to injury becoming 1st man off the bench when at full strength.

There's a chance we lose Holmes and Camara after this season. Losing Elvis and or RJ also would turn next season into more of rebuilding year than I'd be comfortable with. Demoting either one makes that more probable.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

E is too valuable at the 2. Mike can play 1-3. My dream 5 remains Mali, E, Mongo, Deuce, and Camara.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo We can quibble. But, if we did have those players at those key times, we would be, let's say, the #60 team not the #69 team? Players mature over a summer, but they generally don't mature by 50 spots right? I don't think #60 is good enough for this year. That's why I'm just saying: at full strength "that" team is good. Is it good enough? Maybe. I don't think so. I've been wrong before.

Well, a team as young as we had last season, and never played basketball together prior that improved by eons from start to finish, can expect a pretty good jump I'd say. But keep in mind, we were technically team 37 last season when it comes to the NCAA tournament at-large bids. There were 36 at large teams ahead of us plus 32 autobids.

Guessing that of those autobids, say 10 were more deserving had they not won their conference tournaments(that's probably high) that would put us at 47.

Also, keep in mind that at least one thing beyond our control happened to keep us out. Had Davidson beaten Richmond in the finals of the conference tournament, we also would've been in according to the commitee.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 This is where I completely disagree. With the team we have now, you don't need full 4 or 5 player substitutions. Especially because of Mike. You start last year's starting 5. You pull either Elvis or RJ first and replace with Mike, next you pull the one between Elvis and RJ that you left in and replace with Amzil. You then pull Mali for a breather and move Mike or Elvis to PG for a few. You put Mali and RJ back in the game to give Camara a short breather, you put Camara back and let him play the 5 for a few while Deuce gets a blow and so on. Of course I don't expect it to totally work like this, you got to get Brea, Zimi and maybe Amaefule in the game at points too. But whole line substitutions should only happen when we blow a team out of the water.

My only point being that you're going to need to sub >1 person at a time or else someone ends up playing 10+ straight minutes just because of a lack of deadballs. So you'll end up with "shifts" but agree that hockey line shifts are bad. There will be "second line" players who play extended minutes together. I think right now AG is struggling to mesh those lineups with limited players and we're getting extended minutes with poorly meshed players leading to long stretches with no scoring.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer E is too valuable at the 2. Mike can play 1-3. My dream 5 remains Mali, E, Mongo, Deuce, and Camara. Posted via Mobile Device

Now this is an idea I could get behind. Take notes Gazoo.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Well, a team as young as we had last season, and never played basketball together prior that improved by eons from start to finish, can expect a pretty good jump I'd say. But keep in mind, we were technically team 37 last season when it comes to the NCAA tournament at-large bids. There were 36 at large teams ahead of us plus 32 autobids. Guessing that of those autobids, say 10 were more deserving had they not won their conference tournaments(that's probably high) that would put us at 47.

Let's get to brass tacks. Is there any player in division I basketball who would make us a better team by adding that person to our starting lineup?

Obviously the answer is yes.

Is Mike that person? Or one of those persons? That's the discussion. Not whether we were the #69 team or the #47 team.

It's OK to say no. I say yes.

[OSU Flyer]

I'm a big fan of Zimi but I think it's do or die the next couple of weeks about staying in the rotation come conference play

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Now this is an idea I could get behind. Take notes Gazoo.

Collectively, a lineup that has made about 90 career 3's. Most coming from Elvis, who has been good but not great, plus freshman Mike. (You'll find that in the notes I believe.)

That's one possibility, (edit: and a good one,) just pointing out, Holmes better not get doubled teamed, or Elvis better shoot with confidence.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Collectively, a lineup that has made about 90 career 3's. Most coming from Elvis, who has been good but not great, plus freshman Mike. (You'll find that in the notes I believe.).

Mike is going to get plenty of minutes and has already played more mins/game than anyone on this board could have predicted.

He will get PG minutes by default. He will see time at the 2-3 because he's just that good (and we don't have many guards!). I don't see why the mostly arbitrary distinction of being a starter matters here. The kid is going to get all the minutes he wants.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer I'm a big fan of Zimi but I think it's do or die the next couple of weeks about staying in the rotation come conference play

I’ve just never understood the Zimi appeal. It’s not that I dislike him, I just think he is limited and doesn’t bring as much as others.

I’ve read through the back and forth on starters, etc. In my simple mind, AG has a core rotation of 8: last year’s five starters, Brea, Amzil, and Mike. Maybe Kaleb breaks through, maybe not. Maybe Amafuele is needed to replace a few Sissoko minutes, maybe not. I just don’t see Zimi getting time in front of any of the aforementioned.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer E is too valuable at the 2. Mike can play 1-3. My dream 5 remains Mali, E, Mongo, Deuce, and Camara. Posted via Mobile Device

He's valuable when he's hot. He's not....when he's not.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer E is too valuable at the 2. Mike can play 1-3. My dream 5 remains Mali, E, Mongo, Deuce, and Camara. Posted via Mobile Device

That's a good 5, possibly our best. Just remember, at the ~6 minute mark when people are gassed, you'll sub Brea for Elvis, Amzil for Mike, and Blakney for Camara.

Meaning you'll have to play with Mali, Brea, Amzil, Blakney, and Holmes.

And how do you think that'll work out? I think not well.

Now you have to sub again after 2 more minutes because Mail and Holmes are REALLY gassed. So you bring Mike and Camara back with only 2 minutes of rest.

Meaning you'll have to play with Mike, Brea, Amzil, Blakney, and Camara. Yyyyyyuck. Not a good 5. So you sub again, getting Elvis in there for some scoring after 2-3 dreadful minutes.

Meaning you'll have to play with Mike, Elvis, Amzil, Blakney, and Camara. Not much better. Quick get Mali and Holmes back in there after 2 minutes!

Meaning you're back to Mali, Elvis, Mike, Camara, and Holmes. Mali and Elvis are good on minutes for the rest of the half most likely (though it's a lot). Can Mike, Camara, and Holmes play 34 minutes every game?

But ENDING the game, yeah, that's quite possibly the 5 you want to end with.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo But ENDING the game, yeah, that's quite possibly the 5 you want to end with.

Yeah, but if you have those 5 at the end, we'll never have an ending like this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNHo0vNkf_4

or this

https://twitter.com/espn/status/1464...E89R8tXw4gsBBg

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Yeah, but if you have those 5 at the end, we'll never have an ending like this again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNHo0vNkf_4 or this https://twitter.com/espn/status/1464...E89R8tXw4gsBBg

Because we're already up 7 and shooting FT's?

[The Fly]

Quick interjection: Anyone who thinks the loss of your starting point guard (let alone the in-game loss of your starting 4 and 5) doesn’t impact a game, take a look at VCU losing yesterday to Arizona State without PG Ace Baldwin (fractured wrist). That’s the same AZ State team that beat “mighty” Tarleton State by 3 and later lost to “mighty” Texas Southern a week later. Time to fire Rams coach Mike Rhodes, I guess.

[T-Bone 84]

In response to N2663R: I believe you’re correct. I’m a frequent participant in the Holiday Pep Band, and we’re locked-down so tightly, I can’t even wave my trombone at opposing free throw shooters, let alone play it while the clock is running. Maybe “What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas” applies on the basketball court, too? Dunno. But yes, I think our Flyers would get a T if we did what you describe the UNLV Band as doing.

In response to OSU Flyer: I love Zimi too, but I agree that I think he’s on a shorter leash than most other players. I really hope he can make some contributions over the next 4-6 weeks, because I think he’ll be relegated to mop-up duty if he doesn’t.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Fly]

Originally Posted by The Fly Quick interjection: Anyone who thinks the loss of your starting point guard (let alone the in-game loss of your starting 4 and 5) doesn’t impact a game, take a look at VCU losing yesterday to Arizona State without PG Ace Baldwin (fractured wrist). That’s the same AZ State team that beat “mighty” Tarleton State by 3 and later lost to “mighty” Texas Southern a week later. Time to fire Rams coach Mike Rhodes, I guess.

Then again, what the heck do I know? AZ State is blitzing No. 20 Michigan right now.

[jack72]

And VCU just beat Pitt
Posted via Mobile Device

[steverino015]

will Mali be ready for Wisconsin, anyone have an idea?
think we need him for the Badgers badly

first things first, win the next game, then Wisconsin

[The Fly]

Originally Posted by jack72 And VCU just beat Pitt Posted via Mobile Device

Pitt is horrible and has been for a long time. Coach Capel may be gone after this season.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by The Fly Quick interjection: Anyone who thinks the loss of your starting point guard (let alone the in-game loss of your starting 4 and 5) doesn’t impact a game, take a look at VCU losing yesterday to Arizona State without PG Ace Baldwin (fractured wrist). That’s the same AZ State team that beat “mighty” Tarleton State by 3 and later lost to “mighty” Texas Southern a week later. Time to fire Rams coach Mike Rhodes, I guess.

This didn't age well. Sun Devils just trounced "mighty" Michigan.

[The Fly]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo This didn't age well. Sun Devils just trounced "mighty" Michigan.

As I pointed out five posts above.

[CvilleFlyer]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo This didn't age well. Sun Devils just trounced "mighty" Michigan.

Michigan is ranked #20 in the latest AP Poll. Dayton is #21. I would bet for sure Dayton falls out of the top 25 next Monday with the loss to UNLV whereas Michigan will come in at #24 or #25 after being trounced by Arizona State. Life is not fair sometimes!