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  #1  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:30 PM
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DOJ drops all charges against Andrew McCabe

No indictment ...

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Old 02-14-2020, 01:37 PM
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How comes when Stone lies, he gets 9 years in jail? When McCabe admits to lying, there is no punishment at all. Seems like a total double standard.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How comes when Stone lies, he gets 9 years in jail? When McCabe admits to lying, there is no punishment at all. Seems like a total double standard.
Or maybe "lack of candor" is not the same as "7 felony counts of obstruction, witness tampering, and false statements".
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:46 PM
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To elaborate, Stone was found guilty of the above, Bill Barr's DOJ cannot even find enough evidence to indict this cheese sandwich.

When the rubber hit the road, the false narrative against McCabe fell apart and maybe, just maybe, we need to go back and question the motives and the honesty of those who pushed that narrative. We now have the entire story signed, sealed, and delivered and can make our conclusions without speculation.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
To elaborate, Stone was found guilty of the above, Bill Barr's DOJ cannot even find enough evidence to indict this cheese sandwich.

When the rubber hit the road, the false narrative against McCabe fell apart and maybe, just maybe, we need to go back and question the motives and the honesty of those who pushed that narrative. We now have the entire story signed, sealed, and delivered and can make our conclusions without speculation.
??? McCabe admitted to lying to FBI investigators. What more proof is needed?
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
??? McCabe admitted to lying to FBI investigators. What more proof is needed?
Apparently that's not really what happened otherwise they would have been able to criminally indict him. You really think they'd let this one go if they had the evidence?
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Apparently that's not really what happened otherwise they would have been able to criminally indict him. You really think they'd let this one go if they had the evidence?
That IS what happened. It is totally black and white. He lied, but he gets no punishment. He should at least get censured or something.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
That IS what happened. It is totally black and white. He lied, but he gets no punishment. He should at least get censured or something.
If it was black and white he would have been indicted, but he was not. That actually is black and white in the eyes of the DOJ as seen above.

I'm not sure there is a such thing as censure of a private citizen as he no longer works for the government.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
If it was black and white he would have been indicted, but he was not. That actually is black and white in the eyes of the DOJ as seen above.

I'm not sure there is a such thing as censure of a private citizen as he no longer works for the government.
Sorry Phin, this is as black and white as it gets. He lied. This is a total double standard. Period. Full stop.




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Old 02-14-2020, 03:13 PM
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This basically says that if you're in the club, you're safe, if you're not, you go to jail and your life is ruined.

Can't say I'm surprised by this at all, the draining of the swamp needs to continue. It is funny hearing this clown whine about how this has been so hard on him and his family, lol. Yeah, I'm sure cheating on your wife and lying to the American people had nothing to do with your hardship. It's always someone else's fault. Victim politics at it's finest.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Sorry Phin, this is as black and white as it gets. He lied. This is a total double standard. Period. Full stop.




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Again ... Stone was found guilty of 7 felonies in a trial, the Bill Barr led DOJ dropped the charges against McCabe because they couldn't even present enough evidence to indict. False equivalence. Period. Full Stop.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
This basically says that if you're in the club, you're safe, if you're not, you go to jail and your life is ruined.

Can't say I'm surprised by this at all, the draining of the swamp needs to continue. It is funny hearing this clown whine about how this has been so hard on him and his family, lol. Yeah, I'm sure cheating on your wife and lying to the American people had nothing to do with your hardship. It's always someone else's fault. Victim politics at it's finest.
How is he "in the club"? Dude was fired hours before he was eligible for his pension. He was attacked by Trump repeatedly and what he was fired for is literally never criminally prosecuted. To claim there is ANY equivalency between his case and Stone's borders on lunacy.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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This is based only on the Inspector General's report which had very narrow investigative focus. The time from when the report was issued until now was spent confirming the details of the report. McCabe's confession came long after the IG report was published, thus it would not be admissible as part of an indictment.

It is totally unrelated to the Durham criminal investigation which is ongoing and far more wide ranging. In that investigation, McCabe's statements can be considered.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
To claim there is ANY equivalency between his case and Stone's borders on lunacy.
The cases may not be equivalent, but there definitely seems to be a 2 tiered justice system.

Hannity lists several Dems that all lied, and none were prosecuted, meanwhile, seemingly anybody in Trump's orbit that committed the slightest infraction gets the book thrown at them.

The following all lied and were not prosecuted:
McCabe, Susan Rice, Hillary, Comey, Clapper, Brennan, Lois Lerner, Schiff, Eric Holder, Cheryl Mills, Rod Rosenstein, Huma Abedin, and Loretta Lynch.

Starts at 9:10 ends at about 12:00


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Old 02-15-2020, 11:59 AM
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How many of them also committed obstruction of justice and witness intimidation?

Trump lies about Rudy and the Ukraine, you down for prosecuting him again now that he admitted the lie?
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
How many of them also committed obstruction of justice and witness intimidation?

Trump lies about Rudy and the Ukraine, you down for prosecuting him again now that he admitted the lie?
As far as the witness intimidation is concerned: the victim wrote a letter to the judge saying that he/she did not feel threatened at all and just chalked the whole thing up to Stone being Stone.

What did Trump lie about? Rudy is steadfastly maintaining that he will be proven right regarding Biden and Ukraine.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
How many of them also committed obstruction of justice and witness intimidation?
And I agree that these cases are not equivalent, every case is unique, some cases are more serious than Stone, some less serious than Stone, but equivalency is beside the point. All of these people lied and/or committed other infractions, and none were punished.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
As far as the witness intimidation is concerned: the victim wrote a letter to the judge saying that he/she did not feel threatened at all and just chalked the whole thing up to Stone being Stone.

What did Trump lie about? Rudy is steadfastly maintaining that he will be proven right regarding Biden and Ukraine.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/polit...iew/index.html

He denied sending Rudy during the impeachment hearings, in a recent interview he admitted he sending Rudy.

Although I mean, what's this one over the 17,000 other lies/exaggerations/misleading statements/lack of candor that he's told over his 3 years in office?

I'm also not going to rehash this, but even if Rudy is proven right (doubtful), the President sent a private citizen who used his position as the personal attorney to the President and the power of the office of the President to try to work with foreign governments to dig up dirt on a political opponent ... if it was an actual corruption investigation, why was it not carried out via official channels before the election cycle and before there were talks of Biden running against Trump? I mean, just in this forum alone we've now progressed from:

1. That's absurd, he didn't do something illegal like that
2. Well, he might have done it
3. Yeah, I guess he did it, but is there really anything wrong with it?
4. Of course he did it and it was right that he did and it would be ok if he did it again out in the open! Heck, he might as well use the power of the office to investigate all of his opponents. It's for the good of the country!

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Old 02-15-2020, 05:54 PM
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Also, how would the unverified information submitted to the DOJ from Rudy be any different than the information from Christopher Steele?

The only correct answer is "It wouldn't be".
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Old Yesterday, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/polit...iew/index.html

He denied sending Rudy during the impeachment hearings, in a recent interview he admitted he sending Rudy.

Although I mean, what's this one over the 17,000 other lies/exaggerations/misleading statements/lack of candor that he's told over his 3 years in office?

I'm also not going to rehash this, but even if Rudy is proven right (doubtful), the President sent a private citizen who used his position as the personal attorney to the President and the power of the office of the President to try to work with foreign governments to dig up dirt on a political opponent ... if it was an actual corruption investigation, why was it not carried out via official channels before the election cycle and before there were talks of Biden running against Trump? I mean, just in this forum alone we've now progressed from:

1. That's absurd, he didn't do something illegal like that
2. Well, he might have done it
3. Yeah, I guess he did it, but is there really anything wrong with it?
4. Of course he did it and it was right that he did and it would be ok if he did it again out in the open! Heck, he might as well use the power of the office to investigate all of his opponents. It's for the good of the country!
Can you give me some examples of Trump's lies being more serious than those lies that Hannity listed being committed by Dems? A lot of Trump's lies are just nutty and do not seem to rise to the same level as the ones on Hannity's list.

Trump investigating Biden/Ukraine was reasonable IMO, other government agencies were told of the Biden/Ukraine situation and were presumably asked to look into the situation, but they did nothing. There needs to be reform for how to handle this type of stuff going forward IMO.
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Old Yesterday, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Also, how would the unverified information submitted to the DOJ from Rudy be any different than the information from Christopher Steele?

The only correct answer is "It wouldn't be".
How is it unverified? The prosecutor says he was fired over the Biden matter, straight from the horse's mouth. Seems pretty cut and dried. This whole thing may just fade way if Biden falters.

Biden has pretty much offered nothing than what is IMO a weak denial in his defense.

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Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Can you give me some examples of Trump's lies being more serious than those lies that Hannity listed being committed by Dems? A lot of Trump's lies are just nutty and do not seem to rise to the same level as the ones on Hannity's list.

Trump investigating Biden/Ukraine was reasonable IMO, other government agencies were told of the Biden/Ukraine situation and were presumably asked to look into the situation, but they did nothing. There needs to be reform for how to handle this type of stuff going forward IMO.
Trump is the President, they are not and excuse me if I don't take the argument of an entertainer who bald faced stumps for Trump at face value. Also, if Trump's lies are "just nutty", then why the heck do we tolerate him as President? If someone can't be trusted to tell the truth about the little things, you certainly cannot trust them to tell the truth about the serious things.

Here is a very good article on what "lack of candor" in the realm of the FBI really is (it's way more nuanced than lying and that matters in the framework of the law), and why the way the McCabe situation was handled reeked of political retribution. I hope you read it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...candor/556262/

Former FBI and Justice Department officials I spoke to stressed the professionalism of the officials in charge of the Office of the Inspector General and the Office of Professional Responsibility, whose recommendations Sessions said he was following when he fired McCabe. But these former officials, some of whom did not want to be quoted so as not to insert themselves into the controversy, also said they believed the timing of McCabe’s dismissal was suspicious. Candor cases can drag on for months, they said, in part because they can turn on a difference in perception—whether an employee understood the question, or answered to the best of their knowledge, or simply failed to recall something—and often when someone is close to retirement, that person will simply be allowed to retire.

“It’s so weird to rush this right before his retirement, because we don’t really know what the resolution was of the report,” said Watts. “If they didn’t close the entire OPR report, then why are they rushing to fire someone who was caught up in it? It’s so odd that it was so hurried, and it can’t be for anything other than political reasons.”

Even if McCabe’s dismissal turns out to be fully justified on the merits, President Trump’s public attacks on McCabe, the pressure Trump placed on Sessions to fire him, and the timing and circumstances of McCabe’s dismissal ultimately send the message that FBI officials can be fired for doing their jobs, if that conflicts with the president’s interests. “In the end, such conduct necessarily taints the merits of the action against McCabe,” wrote Quinta Jurecic and Benjamin Wittes at Lawfare. “Even if the Justice Department’s process proves pure as the driven snow and the case against McCabe proves compelling, who is going to believe—in the face of overt presidential demands for a corrupt Justice Department—that a Justice Department that gives the president what he wants is anything less than the lackey he asks for? “
Trump using the office of the President to investigate a political opponent was and still is not reasonable and we have to stop normalizing this behavior. Heck, Republicans can't even get their outrage straight because if they justify Trump's behavior, they have to justify the FBI investigation into the Trump campaign that has spawned all of these issues. The White House's own arguments would justify the investigation into Trump as long as it was felt to be "in the best interests of the country" by the White House at the time that Trump not be elected.

That said, those two are different because the FBI acted independently in investigating the Trump campaign, President Obama did not send a personal attorney to do the dirty work.
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Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
How is it unverified? The prosecutor says he was fired over the Biden matter, straight from the horse's mouth. Seems pretty cut and dried. This whole thing may just fade way if Biden falters.

Biden has pretty much offered nothing than what is IMO a weak denial in his defense.
If you are talking about the fired prosecutor, then case closed already. That was all done as official US and European policy and Biden was acting as a representative of the US Government in official capacity, there are no questions around that.

Either way, Rudy is a private citizen with no connection to the government just like Christopher Steele. That's why any information collected and passed on by Rudy is in no way different than the Steele Dossier.
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Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Obama did not send a personal attorney to do the dirty work.
You're forgetting the Bill and Loretta Lynch meeting. That was worse by any measure.
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Old Yesterday, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
You're forgetting the Bill and Loretta Lynch meeting. That was worse by any measure.
You can't be serious ... What Trump and Barr are doing makes that look like less than nothing. Barr is literally reviewing any case involving Trump and has inserted himself any investigation that has to do with the President. Word is he has already personally killed multiple investigations into Trump and people in his orbit.
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Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
You can't be serious ... What Trump and Barr are doing makes that look like less than nothing. Barr is literally reviewing any case involving Trump and has inserted himself any investigation that has to do with the President. Word is he has already personally killed multiple investigations into Trump and people in his orbit.
Right, word is.
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Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Word is he has already personally killed multiple investigations into Trump and people in his orbit.

Is "Word is" a trusted and reliable source or perhaps a dailykos diary?
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Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM
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Funny:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...s-have-worked/

Plus, over 2000 former DOJ officials have called upon Barr to resign due to his political interference in cases:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/1100...ry?id=69030388
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM
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Here you go: Barr killed 7 investigations that came out of the Mueller report just 10 days after the report was submitted: https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/ag-...ed-his-report/
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Old Yesterday, 06:07 PM
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Weissmann asserts DOJ dropped McCabe case to do something worse

Weissmann asserts DOJ dropped McCabe case to do something worse.

Mueller’s ‘pit bull’ told the interviewer that the Justice Department merely swapped out the “loser case” of Andrew McCabe for a new one targeting top former FBI officials, including McCabe. The new team is led by Jeffrey Jensen, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri.
“All they did was swap out a loser case for starting an investigation that is going to be of Comey, McCabe, Pete Strzok,” Weissmann told MSNBC host Chuck Todd.

U.S. Attorney John Durham is also investigating the origins of the Russia-Trump collusion probe.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/...mething-worse/
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Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Here you go: Barr killed 7 /[/url]
That is as far as I read your post at first, I thought Barr was trying to keep up with the Clintons.
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Old Yesterday, 09:12 PM
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Nope. Nothing to see here: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ce/4788155002/

Federal judges' association calls emergency meeting after DOJ intervenes in case of Trump ally Roger Stone
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Old Yesterday, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Weissmann asserts DOJ dropped McCabe case to do something worse.

Mueller’s ‘pit bull’ told the interviewer that the Justice Department merely swapped out the “loser case” of Andrew McCabe for a new one targeting top former FBI officials, including McCabe. The new team is led by Jeffrey Jensen, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri.
“All they did was swap out a loser case for starting an investigation that is going to be of Comey, McCabe, Pete Strzok,” Weissmann told MSNBC host Chuck Todd.

U.S. Attorney John Durham is also investigating the origins of the Russia-Trump collusion probe.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/...mething-worse/
... did you read the whole article, because it doesn’t say what you are portraying here when read in full ...
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Old Yesterday, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
... did you read the whole article, because it doesn’t say what you are portraying here when read in full ...
Yes, I read the article. It said Weissmann asserts DOJ dropped McCabe case to do something worse.

Mueller’s ‘pit bull’ told the interviewer that the Justice Department merely swapped out the “loser case” of Andrew McCabe for a new one targeting top former FBI officials, including McCabe. The new team is led by Jeffrey Jensen, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri.
“All they did was swap out a loser case for starting an investigation that is going to be of Comey, McCabe, Pete Strzok,” Weissmann told MSNBC host Chuck Todd.

That Weissman doesn't like it, doesn't matter.
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Old Yesterday, 10:02 PM
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"Worse" in that it will be politically motivated as well with a wider scope. The fact that career former DOJ employees are speaking out in the numbers that they are and federal judges are holding emergency meetings about the political attempts to influence the judiciary should be a clue that something stinks in the Executive Branch.
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Old Yesterday, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
"Worse" in that it will be politically motivated as well with a wider scope. The fact that career former DOJ employees are speaking out in the numbers that they are and federal judges are holding emergency meetings about the political attempts to influence the judiciary should be a clue that something stinks in the Executive Branch.
Yeah, those Obama holdovers do stink.

Not politically motivated, but truth motivated.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Yeah, those Obama holdovers do stink.

Not politically motivated, but truth motivated.
Obama holdovers, of course. Like Donald Ayer who has called for Barr's resignation?

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...-be-impeached/

Oh wait, he was a Deputy AG under GHW Bush. This crosses parties, only Cult45 members deny it at this point.
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Obama holdovers, of course. Like Donald Ayer who has called for Barr's resignation?

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...-be-impeached/

Oh wait, he was a Deputy AG under GHW Bush. This crosses parties, only Cult45 members deny it at this point.
Good try, Phin. Donald B. Ayer is and was a never Trumper.
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Old Yesterday, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Good try, Phin. Donald B. Ayer is and was a never Trumper.
And the 2000+ former DOJ employees who signed onto the call for Barr's resignation?

Face it, Trump IS the swamp.
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Old Yesterday, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
And the 2000+ former DOJ employees who signed onto the call for Barr's resignation?

Face it, Trump IS the swamp.
Left wing propaganda. The advocacy group Protect Democracy, which was formed in 2017 and has been critical of the Trump. They are part of the Swamp. Talk about political! They are deathly afraid the truth will come out.

Website:
protectdemocracyproject.org
Location:
WASHINGTON, DC
Tax ID:
81-4777062
Tax-Exempt Status:
501(c)(3)
Formation:
2017
Type:
Anti-Trump Litigation Organization
The Protect Democracy Project (PDP) is a left-of-center litigation organization created to oppose the policies of President Donald Trump.

https://www.influencewatch.org/non-p...cracy-project/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-...gn-11581877946

Last edited by Mich Flyer; Yesterday at 11:00 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 11:01 PM
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Formed in 2017 AFTER Trump took office because this behavior was entirely predictable.

Federal judges are calling emergency meetings as well.

Conservatives screamed from the rafters when it was thought that the DOJ might have been politicized under Obama and are cheering on Trump's open politicization of the DOJ.
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Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Formed in 2017 AFTER Trump took office because this behavior was entirely predictable.

Federal judges are calling emergency meetings as well.

Conservatives screamed from the rafters when it was thought that the DOJ might have been politicized under Obama and are cheering on Trump's open politicization of the DOJ.
So the fearful Democrats say. They are afraid the truth will be coming out.
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Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
So the fearful Democrats say. They are afraid the truth will be coming out.
Last I checked, Trump was the one who blocked all witnesses and coined the term "absolute immunity." You know, innocent person things.
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Old Yesterday, 11:11 PM
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[QUOTE=Phinhead54;615881]Last I checked, Trump was the one who blocked all witnesses and coined the term "absolute immunity." You know, innocent person things.[/QUOT/]

Can't help it the Democrats didn't do their job in the House. Phin, you present nothing different from the rest of the Democrat position - RESIST.
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Old Today, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
Here you go: Barr killed 7 investigations that came out of the Mueller report just 10 days after the report was submitted: https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/ag-...ed-his-report/
Trump has been investigated for almost 4 years straight now since he was nominated, they have not come up with anything, why do we need more investigations?
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Old Today, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Phinhead54 View Post
And the 2000+ former DOJ employees who signed onto the call for Barr's resignation?

Face it, Trump IS the swamp.
Can you put this in context? The DOJ has over 9,500 attorneys working for it, that 9,500 is just attorneys alone, how many total employees work for the DOJ?
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Old Today, 12:43 AM
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The DOJ has over 113,000 total employees. 2,000 complaining is less than 2% of the total DOJ workforce.

2,000 is 1.77% of the DOJ workforce.

Last edited by ud2; Today at 12:45 AM..
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