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  #101  
Old 04-23-2019, 01:30 PM
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After this revelation by Maddog07, I have changed my opinion of a degree from UD.
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  #102  
Old 04-23-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
After this revelation by Maddog07, I have changed my opinion of a degree from UD.
So you're taking him at his word? Interesting.
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  #103  
Old 04-23-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
What makes you think his education is (a) lacking and (b) it's undeniable? Did sWimpy tell you??
He’s spent two additional years “ in school”. Both because he wasn’t equipped for the next level. That’s undeniable. Hardly a rocket scientist and therefore a reasonable supposition that he would chose professional basketball before getting a degree.
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  #104  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
He’s spent two additional years “ in school”. Both because he wasn’t equipped for the next level. That’s undeniable. Hardly a rocket scientist and therefore a reasonable supposition that he would chose professional basketball before getting a degree.
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But since he's academically eligible, it's 'undeniable' that he actually was equipped for the next level. Hardly rocket science to figure that out...regardless of how unreasonable you are.
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  #105  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
He’s spent two additional years “ in school”. Both because he wasn’t equipped for the next level. That’s undeniable. Hardly a rocket scientist and therefore a reasonable supposition that he would chose professional basketball before getting a degree.
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Do you even consider that fact that he is a very talented basketball player who's worked hard at his craft? And part of that is his work in the classroom? And keeping his nose clean? And obviously becoming a fan favorite and ambassador for UD?

I know several "rocket scientists" who never set foot on a college campus.

The fact that you even felt the need to put the above statement in print speaks volumes about you.
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  #106  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:19 PM
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All those are true. Still he’s demonstrated that school is difficult ( evidenced by two added years of remedial schooling) and would seem to increase the odds of him leaving before completing his degree and almost certainly before graduating. Should he go through senior year he’d be 24; almost eligible for social security.

Pretty entertaining how espousing anything less than the red and blue happy party line really bothers the realistically challenged.
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  #107  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Pretty entertaining how espousing anything less than the red and blue happy party line really bothers the realistically challenged.
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Most of us are OK with any color(s) as long as it's accurate, which your claims aren't.

For example, year 1 of his 'remedial' schooling was 100% a factor of not getting any D1 offers in basketball. Obi went to Prep School to work on his recruitment...Nothing more. Nothing less.

For example II, year 2 of 'remedial' schooling was as a redshirt freshman at UD...which last I checked isn't a 'remedial' anything...unless you're saying he went to _avier before UD in which case you have a point.

King Rollo the Realistically Unchallenged...OUT!!!
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  #108  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
So you're taking him at his word? Interesting.
I agree. The only college campus the Dog has been on was one noncredit semester of trolling 101 at egezavier.
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  #109  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:42 PM
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I totally agree with Rollo (to remain eligible to play he must be advancing in a normal sequence towards his degree within 5 years). As a former athlete, I attended a few classes, as electives, filled with other athletes. No one loves UD more than I do, but it is possible to attend enough easy classes to stay eligible and earn a degree. At least UD athletes must attend the classes and fulfill the course requirements; see North Carolina...
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  #110  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:52 AM
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NBA draft: 233 early-entry prospects declare for 2019

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...s-declare-2019
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  #111  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:52 AM
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It may be awhile till we find out about Obi. The new rule says a college player can sign with an agent and go through the draft on June 20, then return to college, as long as he discontinues all agent contact at that point.

Declaring for the Draft does not have the same meaning as it did in previous years, provided a kid does not take agent money or advances.
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  #112  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
It may be awhile till we find out about Obi. The new rule says a college player can sign with an agent and go through the draft on June 20, then return to college, as long as he discontinues all agent contact at that point.

Declaring for the Draft does not have the same meaning as it did in previous years, provided a kid does not take agent money or advances.
Players returning to college have to return before the draft, but I cannot remember the exact date off the top of my head, but I believe it is May 29. Most will return to their college teams after the Draft Combine, which is May May 16-20.
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  #113  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Players returning to college have to return before the draft, but I cannot remember the exact date off the top of my head, but I believe it is May 29. Most will return to their college teams after the Draft Combine, which is May May 16-20.
Not the new rule. Players who go to the combine, and then go undrafted can return to school after the draft date.

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...nges-explained

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/col...ed-players-fbi
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  #114  
Old 04-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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I really hate the off season. People get bored and need stuff to talk about and so they start talking about personal matters involving the players and it inevitably turns ugly, not to mention that it is all speculation and conjecture based on nothing. JUST SAY NO!
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  #115  
Old 04-24-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Not the new rule. Players who go to the combine, and then go undrafted can return to school after the draft date.

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...nges-explained

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/08/col...ed-players-fbi
That is only for players that compete in the combine. There are only 80 players that get to go to the combine and that includes seniors, and foreign players. If they are not invited they have to return by May 29.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
That is only for players that compete in the combine. There are only 80 players that get to go to the combine and that includes seniors, and foreign players. If they are not invited they have to return by May 29.
Correct.
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  #117  
Old 04-24-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
No school vs basketball full time I think is probably the biggest factor
Originally Posted by O'side Flyer View Post
If your only reason for playing CBB was to get to The League™, why wouldn't you leave as early as you could?
Because I've watched the NBA D league. It's often unwatchable. Unlike UD, where the team's success is your success, in the NBADL it's often a s**tshow. 1-on-1 garbage, big men playing foul line to foul line, "coaching" can be a very loose term, you could end up on a terrible team that doesn't try hard (making you look bad with them), and your success is largely dependent on people who do not have a vested interest in your success because they want to be the guy getting the attention.

If Obi gets the ball 4x per game because the guards won't throw it to him when he's in position, and thus averages 6 points per game, and the coach says "well just keep working for the ball", then it was a wasted year.

Or he could stay at UD where he's going to be THE centerpiece of a very good team.

I'd say there are reasons to stay at UD. It's all the same facts, it's just a matter of which risks and rewards you give higher weight to.


Minor league baseball works much better this way: it's basically an individual game. Sure, the catcher can tell the batter a fastball is coming ("it hit the bull") but generally every player can be basically judged on their own merits.
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  #118  
Old 04-24-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Because I've watched the NBA D league. It's often unwatchable. Unlike UD, where the team's success is your success, in the NBADL it's often a s**tshow. 1-on-1 garbage, big men playing foul line to foul line, "coaching" can be a very loose term, you could end up on a terrible team that doesn't try hard (making you look bad with them), and your success is largely dependent on people who do not have a vested interest in your success because they want to be the guy getting the attention.

If Obi gets the ball 4x per game because the guards won't throw it to him when he's in position, and thus averages 6 points per game, and the coach says "well just keep working for the ball", then it was a wasted year.

Or he could stay at UD where he's going to be THE centerpiece of a very good team.

I'd say there are reasons to stay at UD. It's all the same facts, it's just a matter of which risks and rewards you give higher weight to.


Minor league baseball works much better this way: it's basically an individual game. Sure, the catcher can tell the batter a fastball is coming ("it hit the bull") but generally every player can be basically judged on their own merits.
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Obi would most likely be better off staying for one more season. The only way I feel I could be wrong is if I'm underestimating his potential to go in the first round this year. I don't think I am. And the quickest, easiest, safest path to the NBA is by being 1st round pick. I don't believe he is this year but has a fantastic shot at being one next year. And draft status matters a lot. Very unlikely that an NBA team will give a g-league player nearly the chances they would a first round pick, even if all things were equal, or yes, even if the G-League player looks like he might be better.

I've thought about Minor league baseball also and realize that farm teams in baseball will naturally work where it just doesn't seem feasible for basketball. Baseball has a lot of movement of players where basketball doesn't. Due to injury, suspension, and other things, you might need a starting pitcher, a relief pitcher, a hybrid pitcher, a 2nd baseman, Shortstop, 3rd baseman, catcher, corner outfielder or middle outfielder. In the NBA, you might need maybe one of 3 or 4 different things at times less seldom.

Minor league baseball is a lucrative business. Minor league baseball is less about the actual quality of the game than basketball is to the fans. Heck, in MiLB, your team can get derailed by success. The better your players perform the more likely they will be plucked by the majors. But baseball no matter what level, is as much about the Sun, the food and the social aspect to the fans as it is about the game.

Basketball has their lucrative minor leagues in place and that's NCAA basketball and by the nature of the game, no way will that be replaced by some kind of semi-pro game. Development for basketball will always resemble the practice squads of the NFL than it ever will the minor leagues of baseball.

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  #119  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Because I've watched the NBA D league. It's often unwatchable. Unlike UD, where the team's success is your success, in the NBADL it's often a s**tshow. 1-on-1 garbage, big men playing foul line to foul line, "coaching" can be a very loose term, you could end up on a terrible team that doesn't try hard (making you look bad with them), and your success is largely dependent on people who do not have a vested interest in your success because they want to be the guy getting the attention.

If Obi gets the ball 4x per game because the guards won't throw it to him when he's in position, and thus averages 6 points per game, and the coach says "well just keep working for the ball", then it was a wasted year.

Or he could stay at UD where he's going to be THE centerpiece of a very good team.

I'd say there are reasons to stay at UD. It's all the same facts, it's just a matter of which risks and rewards you give higher weight to.


Minor league baseball works much better this way: it's basically an individual game. Sure, the catcher can tell the batter a fastball is coming ("it hit the bull") but generally every player can be basically judged on their own merits.
I don't disagree with your assessment. I just think it doesn't matter. The issue is what value does a kid put on what he is told by the NBA scouts or whomever does the evaluations and what direction do those people now (and in the future) advise a kid.

I don't watch G-League and probably never will. But if the people making the assessments are telling kids that they will get more out of G-League practices and full time commitment, it would be shortsighted to believe that sloppy games in Delaware are going to sway a kid.

It is a transition time. I have no doubt that Gazoo is dead on accurate as to how ugly the D-League was. But if the NBA truly wants the D-League to now be "Triple A" then this is a paradigm change.

I think/hope we are at the front end of this with Obi so it may not be a consideration but it will potentially be a very real issue moving forward. The pay may be minimal but the payoff in the NBA or Europe may be worth it for some kids. Any thought that the college education is worth X is an indication that you are looking at thru your own eyes and not seeing it thru the wide eye view of a kid who believes (right or wrong) they can make a living or better playing a game they (hopefully) love.

I am not saying they are making a good decision; I'm also not saying they are not. It will differ kid to kid. But what we think is best is not viewed the same way a kid will view it. There has always been the danger of sycophants with every talented kid. But now the risk is advisers with ties to the NBA. Until we really understand how the G-League factors in to their assessments, it is a concern. The G-League may be an utter failure. The NBA assessments may never recommend the G-League or only to a kid that is at best disinterested, the issue is we don't know and our opinion of "should" would have improve 100% to work its way to irrelevant.

Dear Lord that was long winded.
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  #120  
Old Yesterday, 07:33 AM
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Personally I would like to see Obi stay one more year because as a fan it’s going to be a great ride if he does.

I think his mom would like to see him stay one more year to 1. get his third year of college paid for on an academic scholarship (making one year to complete a degree if needed down the road.) 2. Continue to mature another year as a person. She mentioned this during a DDN interview. 3. I think both Obi and his mom really like UD and everyone envolved with the men’s b-ball program. 4. I think another year would help improve his placement in the draft and thus increase his earnings as a pro faster. But #4 might be a mute point. If the guy’s got game, he’s going to make it.

Finally, I think Obi is doing exactly what he should be doing. He is checking out all his options. With all the rule changes I would have been shocked if he wasn’t taking advantage of getting some professional opinions as to where he is in the pecking order and evaluations on his game.
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  #121  
Old Yesterday, 08:20 AM
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We also can't forget that the college environment is unique to the USofA. There are 13 year old kids who go pro in soccer in Europe and their mothers don't say "oh but you'll miss out on a year of your college education!!" Screw that, go to college later after you blow out your knee. If the best path to the pros is the D league, then Obi should go to the D league--every day and twice on Sunday.

But, that's not what the D league is right now, in my opinion.

Many baseball players see the balance. The minors is a great way to develop. If you're a can't-miss talent you go to the minors. (Exception: the team that drafts you gets stingy with the signing bonus so you re-enter after a year of college.) If you're good, but not a can't-miss talent, well there is something of real value in getting your education paid for.
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
We also can't forget that the college environment is unique to the USofA. There are 13 year old kids who go pro in soccer in Europe and their mothers don't say "oh but you'll miss out on a year of your college education!!" Screw that, go to college later after you blow out your knee. If the best path to the pros is the D league, then Obi should go to the D league--every day and twice on Sunday.

But, that's not what the D league is right now, in my opinion.

Many baseball players see the balance. The minors is a great way to develop. If you're a can't-miss talent you go to the minors. (Exception: the team that drafts you gets stingy with the signing bonus so you re-enter after a year of college.) If you're good, but not a can't-miss talent, well there is something of real value in getting your education paid for.
Baseball has different rules, if you don't sign out of high school and go to a D1 program, You are out of the draft for 3 years.
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adopt this rule

Originally Posted by OCFlyer85 View Post
Baseball has different rules, if you don't sign out of high school and go to a D1 program, You are out of the draft for 3 years.
This is the rule that I want for basketball.
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
This is the rule that I want for basketball.
That would be great and would certainly solve a lot of issues, but I don't see the NCAA doing anything that might threaten the cash cow that is March Madness.
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer View Post
That would be great and would certainly solve a lot of issues, but I don't see the NCAA doing anything that might threaten the cash cow that is March Madness.
That is not an NCAA rule. It is an MLB rule.
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Couple of caveats, as CE80 said, its an MLB rule, not an NCAA rule, same with football. There is also a stipulation (unless its changed recently) that you could play Juco baseball and if you graduated in 1 year, you could enter the draft, or after 2 years. Bryce Harper graduated HS early, spend 1 year at a Juco then entered the draft. Graduation may not even be a requirement; not sure exactly.


It would probably be a win-win if the NBA had a similar arrangement, leave after HS or Juco and enter the draft and either go straight to the league, or develop in the G league.


Regarding Obi, the benefit of college is that you get a more controlled atmosphere to develop. Granted, you get less time, and there is school work involved, but he knows what he's walking into and who is working with him. Go the G league route, and its anybody's guess, unless he goes un-drafted, which is even worse. He also gets a chance to make a "name" for himself nationally. If UD goes out and dominates in Mauii, and Obi makes a handful of highlight reel plays, he'll quickly become appointment television for the basketball junkies. Keep improving as he did last year and he'll find his name on wooden watches and other national award lists. Zion Williamson likely would have been a top 5 pick coming out of HS if he has that option, so going #1 this year isn't going to increase his NBA paycheck all that much. However, becoming the face of college basketball increased his brand awareness a ton and will lead to much larger endorsement deals over the next few months than he could have garnered a year ago. I honestly think Obi has the chance to become something on the level of Adam Morrison or Steph Curry on the college basketball scene. Obviously those guys had very different NBA careers, and Obi is a long ways away from being a lottery pick like they were, but both were the players the "cool kids" were talking about, the ones that you if you knew and watched them play their sophomore seasons then you truely were a basketball junkie, not just some dude who turns up in march and roots for kentucky or Duke.
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
That is not an NCAA rule. It is an MLB rule.
Call me cynical, but I guess I wouldn't count on the NBA doing anything that would upset the apple cart for the NCAA and sports betting industry on the billion-plus dollar March Madness cash cow.
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer View Post
Call me cynical, but I guess I wouldn't count on the NBA doing anything that would upset the apple cart for the NCAA and sports betting industry on the billion-plus dollar March Madness cash cow.
March Madness is king regardless of one and dones. The only thing missing if you allow them to go straight pro is the hatred of the Dook and KY one and dones.
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer View Post
Call me cynical, but I guess I wouldn't count on the NBA doing anything that would upset the apple cart for the NCAA and sports betting industry on the billion-plus dollar March Madness cash cow.
NBA cares about NBA money, not NCAA and their money. Pro sports will always take care of their own interests first. If the NBA cared about NCAA basketball, they would not have instituted the One and Done rule to begin with.
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
NBA cares about NBA money, not NCAA and their money. Pro sports will always take care of their own interests first. If the NBA cared about NCAA basketball, they would not have instituted the One and Done rule to begin with.
Point taken.
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So when does evaluation take place and Obi knows what they think?
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Originally Posted by Flyer2 View Post
So when does evaluation take place and Obi knows what they think?
Last year the NBA released the 80 players on the combine list on May 5th so we'll know more about Obi's future near that time.

This year the NBA is only inviting 60 players directly to the combine. There is a new G-league Elite Camp May 12-14 with 40 seniors and underclassmen. The top players from that camp will advance from there to the NBA combine on May 15.

If Obi is not on the list of 40 invited directly to the Combine, his chances of being drafted are quiet low so he would most likely be better off returning to school.

175 underlclassmen (and 58 internationals) declared for the draft this year, down from 181 last year.

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