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  #1  
Old 09-19-2017, 05:39 PM
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Sam Miller back for second semester????

OK, did I miss something? I thought last I heard he was done for at least 1 year, but reading this article posted an hour or so ago by Jablonski it sounds like the option still exists to come back?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...L3Jke1fDotWTO/
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
OK, did I miss something? I thought last I heard he was done for at least 1 year, but reading this article posted an hour or so ago by Jablonski it sounds like the option still exists to come back?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...L3Jke1fDotWTO/
I think the assumption was that since he won't be scholarship eligible until next year, that he would miss the whole season. If he pays his own way, I'm guessing he could be a walk-on for half a season. All depends on if the school is looking at his scholarship punishment and basketball punishment as two different entities.

If Sam has the option to play on his own dime for half a season, other pertinent questions.
Sam must decide if he wants to give up half a season of eligibility to play this season and Grant must ask himself if he wants to commit to Sam for 2018-2019.

Last edited by Smitty10; 09-19-2017 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:25 PM
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Always been an option for Sam to return for the 2nd semester, but unclear what AG has said he needs to do to return in mid December. I do not see Sam ever receiving a scholarship again, but possible he might play again for UD. No inside information here.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:07 PM
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Surely hope the decision is made based on principle and not on need...
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:19 PM
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Sam scholarship

The rules may have changed, but I seem to recall hearing that the NCAA rule is that once you recruit a player, whether he ends up with a scholarship or not, if he's on the team he counts against the scholarship limit. And recruiting is defined as ANY contact with a prospective player by a representative of the university. Even a fan otherwise unconnected with the university who contacts a player to try and influence him to come to your school is a "representative of the university" and the contact constitutes "recruiting."

If this is still correct,Sam would count against the scholarship limit next season (2018-19) even if he pays his own way. Thus, another scholarship would not be available. The only way it would be available is if Sam is not on the 2018-19 roster. This makes me think there is no way in H that Sam will be on the 2018-19 roster if an attractive recruit is available.

This rule makes sense because otherwise a team could load up on players that "pay their own way" (read: lucrative summer employment or lucrative employment for a parent) while still have the full compliment of scholarships available for other players. A team could have a 15-20 man roster of players.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:35 PM
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My recollection of the Miller punishment was suspension from school for a semester, and suspension from the team for a year. Has something changed?????
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Don View Post
The rules may have changed, but I seem to recall hearing that the NCAA rule is that once you recruit a player, whether he ends up with a scholarship or not, if he's on the team he counts against the scholarship limit. And recruiting is defined as ANY contact with a prospective player by a representative of the university. Even a fan otherwise unconnected with the university who contacts a player to try and influence him to come to your school is a "representative of the university" and the contact constitutes "recruiting."

If this is still correct,Sam would count against the scholarship limit next season (2018-19) even if he pays his own way. Thus, another scholarship would not be available. The only way it would be available is if Sam is not on the 2018-19 roster. This makes me think there is no way in H that Sam will be on the 2018-19 roster if an attractive recruit is available.

This rule makes sense because otherwise a team could load up on players that "pay their own way" (read: lucrative summer employment or lucrative employment for a parent) while still have the full compliment of scholarships available for other players. A team could have a 15-20 man roster of players.
No rule is in place that says you can't kick a guy off the team. And there is no rule that you have to give him back his scholarship. Many guys have given up scholarships and become walkons. It happens. Doug McDermott at Creighton is one example. Pitino exploited this one year and had 2 "walk on" starters. I posted a long list of examples in another thread. The one thing Dayton can't do is give Sam an academic scholarship and let him walk on. If he is on scholarship and playing basketball, he HAS to be on a basketball scholarship. The NCAA prohibits in this way teams sliding in guys under academic scholarships. That is what seems to trip people up. But if you have a guy who will pay his own way, that's an advantage that is well within the rules.
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  #8  
Old 09-20-2017, 11:04 AM
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Exclamation When principle turns into principal

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Surely hope the decision is made based on principle and not on need...
More often than not, the decision in sports leans toward the PRINCIPAL needs of the team. Like how critical is the principle we are addressing, and how severe are the needs. (exhibit 1, #35)
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Don View Post
This rule makes sense because otherwise a team could load up on players that "pay their own way" (read: lucrative summer employment or lucrative employment for a parent) while still have the full compliment of scholarships available for other players. A team could have a 15-20 man roster of players.
My guess is that this wouldn't become a widespread problem. What good would it do to have a 20 man roster? You can still only play 5 at a time. Even with a 12 man roster it is common to have players that are unhappy with their playing time. Imagine how unhappy the majority of the team would be with 20 players.
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
My recollection of the Miller punishment was suspension from school for a semester, and suspension from the team for a year. Has something changed?????
I read the initial announcement and follow-ups as very precisely worded. Miller was suspended for Fall Semester and loses his scholarship for the 2017-2018 school year. Never said Miller could not play 2nd semester as a non-scholarship player.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
I read the initial announcement and follow-ups as very precisely worded. Miller was suspended for Fall Semester and loses his scholarship for the 2017-2018 school year. Never said Miller could not play 2nd semester as a non-scholarship player.
I wonder if Sam is enrolling for next Semester? Havenít heard anything.
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by UD93 Steve View Post
I wonder if Sam is enrolling for next Semester? Havenít heard anything.
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Rumor going around he has...but...it is a rumor.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:00 AM
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If Sam Miller comes back to the team for the second semester, i would bet that he is way way way out of shape. It could be february before he would be able to play any significant minutes.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:04 AM
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:08 AM
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In particular, Sam would be out-of-shape if he comes to my house for the XMAS holidays and partakes in the feast that we are planning. Baby, wow! Steak and Turkey with all the accoutrements. I am looking forward to it.

Psst: Donít tell my doctor that i am eating red meat. Psst!
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
If Sam Miller comes back to the team for the second semester, i would bet that he is way way way out of shape. It could be february before he would be able to play any significant minutes.
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I am pretty sure Sam is done from the team for the entire year. If he comes back next semester it is for school only.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:28 PM
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He is Done For a Year

The year is the 2017-18 UD Men's basketball season. A new calendar year begins 1/1/2018. I believe Sam has the opportunity to apply for reinstatement to the University in 2018 as a student. That would permit him to return to the University as a student. Reinstatement to the basketball team is a totally different consideration.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:51 PM
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Is it possible for him to practice with the team, not play, and maintain his eligibility? If AG said you he could come back next year as a walk-on, could he "red shirt as a walk-on" the second semester for conditioning/learning the system purposes?
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Old 12-19-2017, 06:19 PM
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I recall Coach Grant saying his scholarship was revoked for a year. I never thought that precluded him from joining the team as a walkon for the rest of the season if all conditions (whatever they may be) were met. I have heard that he is enrolled.
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Old 12-19-2017, 06:28 PM
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Forget basketball for a minute.

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
I recall Coach Grant saying his scholarship was revoked for a year. I never thought that precluded him from joining the team as a walkon for the rest of the season if all conditions (whatever they may be) were met. I have heard that he is enrolled.
He's older now. But has he grown up? He was not exactly a role model on or off the bench.

He has a lot to prove to himself, his family, his teammates.

I'm rooting for him to be a good citizen first.
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:03 PM
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Scholarship revoked and paying his way to get some classes in are two different things...
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:34 PM
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Question

Do we need this guy?
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Do we need this guy?
Negative...and the guys that have been busting their butts since fall don't need the distractions and don't deserve to potentially lose time for someone who didn't walk the line after multiple warnings.

Part ways...best thing for the current players and the program. Sam should have thought about Sam when he acted a fool.
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:41 PM
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absolutly not

Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Do we need this guy?
We have a lot of needs, but a soft, defensive liability, with baggage isn't one. We need the open scholarship to rebuild. Taking Sam back would be going backwards. We need players with the potential to be all A10.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:00 PM
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Miller

....did AM leave us with an essentially empty cupboard? Just asking.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
....did AM leave us with an essentially empty cupboard? Just asking.
No. He left a roster full of A10 All Stars.

It is all Anthonyís fault.
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  #27  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:15 AM
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sure, AM fault
Steve, RIP
Mikesell surgery
Sam drunk
Mr. Minn goes to CO
All AM fault
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:36 PM
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Not Archie's fault, but let's not kid ourselves with the talent and inexperience on this team. Archie would not be faring much better here verses Grant, just look at Indiana's record...

Archie's biggest failure appears to be the first large recruiting class he brought in (Miller, Mikesell, Xeyrius, Crosby). This class hasn't panned out, at least not yet (maaaaybe next year?)... And Archie's reluctance to go after big recruits wouldn't have given us Cohill.
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Negative...and the guys that have been busting their butts since fall don't need the distractions and don't deserve to potentially lose time for someone who didn't walk the line after multiple warnings.

Part ways...best thing for the current players and the program. Sam should have thought about Sam when he acted a fool.
Agree. Already have enough big guys attempting threes.
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