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  #1  
Old 09-19-2017, 05:39 PM
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Sam Miller back for second semester????

OK, did I miss something? I thought last I heard he was done for at least 1 year, but reading this article posted an hour or so ago by Jablonski it sounds like the option still exists to come back?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...L3Jke1fDotWTO/
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
OK, did I miss something? I thought last I heard he was done for at least 1 year, but reading this article posted an hour or so ago by Jablonski it sounds like the option still exists to come back?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...L3Jke1fDotWTO/
I think the assumption was that since he won't be scholarship eligible until next year, that he would miss the whole season. If he pays his own way, I'm guessing he could be a walk-on for half a season. All depends on if the school is looking at his scholarship punishment and basketball punishment as two different entities.

If Sam has the option to play on his own dime for half a season, other pertinent questions.
Sam must decide if he wants to give up half a season of eligibility to play this season and Grant must ask himself if he wants to commit to Sam for 2018-2019.

Last edited by Smitty10; 09-19-2017 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:25 PM
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Always been an option for Sam to return for the 2nd semester, but unclear what AG has said he needs to do to return in mid December. I do not see Sam ever receiving a scholarship again, but possible he might play again for UD. No inside information here.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:07 PM
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Surely hope the decision is made based on principle and not on need...
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:19 PM
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Sam scholarship

The rules may have changed, but I seem to recall hearing that the NCAA rule is that once you recruit a player, whether he ends up with a scholarship or not, if he's on the team he counts against the scholarship limit. And recruiting is defined as ANY contact with a prospective player by a representative of the university. Even a fan otherwise unconnected with the university who contacts a player to try and influence him to come to your school is a "representative of the university" and the contact constitutes "recruiting."

If this is still correct,Sam would count against the scholarship limit next season (2018-19) even if he pays his own way. Thus, another scholarship would not be available. The only way it would be available is if Sam is not on the 2018-19 roster. This makes me think there is no way in H that Sam will be on the 2018-19 roster if an attractive recruit is available.

This rule makes sense because otherwise a team could load up on players that "pay their own way" (read: lucrative summer employment or lucrative employment for a parent) while still have the full compliment of scholarships available for other players. A team could have a 15-20 man roster of players.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:35 PM
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My recollection of the Miller punishment was suspension from school for a semester, and suspension from the team for a year. Has something changed?????
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Don View Post
The rules may have changed, but I seem to recall hearing that the NCAA rule is that once you recruit a player, whether he ends up with a scholarship or not, if he's on the team he counts against the scholarship limit. And recruiting is defined as ANY contact with a prospective player by a representative of the university. Even a fan otherwise unconnected with the university who contacts a player to try and influence him to come to your school is a "representative of the university" and the contact constitutes "recruiting."

If this is still correct,Sam would count against the scholarship limit next season (2018-19) even if he pays his own way. Thus, another scholarship would not be available. The only way it would be available is if Sam is not on the 2018-19 roster. This makes me think there is no way in H that Sam will be on the 2018-19 roster if an attractive recruit is available.

This rule makes sense because otherwise a team could load up on players that "pay their own way" (read: lucrative summer employment or lucrative employment for a parent) while still have the full compliment of scholarships available for other players. A team could have a 15-20 man roster of players.
No rule is in place that says you can't kick a guy off the team. And there is no rule that you have to give him back his scholarship. Many guys have given up scholarships and become walkons. It happens. Doug McDermott at Creighton is one example. Pitino exploited this one year and had 2 "walk on" starters. I posted a long list of examples in another thread. The one thing Dayton can't do is give Sam an academic scholarship and let him walk on. If he is on scholarship and playing basketball, he HAS to be on a basketball scholarship. The NCAA prohibits in this way teams sliding in guys under academic scholarships. That is what seems to trip people up. But if you have a guy who will pay his own way, that's an advantage that is well within the rules.
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  #8  
Old 09-20-2017, 11:04 AM
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Exclamation When principle turns into principal

Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Surely hope the decision is made based on principle and not on need...
More often than not, the decision in sports leans toward the PRINCIPAL needs of the team. Like how critical is the principle we are addressing, and how severe are the needs. (exhibit 1, #35)
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Don View Post
This rule makes sense because otherwise a team could load up on players that "pay their own way" (read: lucrative summer employment or lucrative employment for a parent) while still have the full compliment of scholarships available for other players. A team could have a 15-20 man roster of players.
My guess is that this wouldn't become a widespread problem. What good would it do to have a 20 man roster? You can still only play 5 at a time. Even with a 12 man roster it is common to have players that are unhappy with their playing time. Imagine how unhappy the majority of the team would be with 20 players.
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
My recollection of the Miller punishment was suspension from school for a semester, and suspension from the team for a year. Has something changed?????
I read the initial announcement and follow-ups as very precisely worded. Miller was suspended for Fall Semester and loses his scholarship for the 2017-2018 school year. Never said Miller could not play 2nd semester as a non-scholarship player.
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