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03-10-2014, 12:11 AM
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Last Four In
Tonight Joe Lunardi has both UD and St Joes as last four in. That tells me we must win the first game and then St Joes would be an elimination game in more than one way...
I don't think six teams get in from the A10 and winning at least two games is the only way we get in IMHO.
Go Flyers
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03-10-2014, 12:26 AM
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Not many bracketologists this year agree with Joe. Most have UD in and the A-10 with 6 teams in. Even St Joes coach says he don't pay attention to Lunardi. Says he speaks to him on campus and as a friend but not as a self proclaimed bracketologist.
Anyway as long as we keep winning it won't matter as the NCAA selection committee will do what it wants, and more than likely favor BCS schools.
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03-10-2014, 12:36 AM
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I've go $50. That says 6 teams don't get in from the a10!
We know how non BCS teams get treated and the committee will give the big schools the benefit of the doubt. I think Lunardi's past record speaks for itself.
I hope you are right Avid
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03-10-2014, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71
I think Lunardi's past record speaks for itself.
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Which shows him to be not that great! He has the most visible forum but until his last bracket I wouldn't pay much attention to him
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03-10-2014, 08:43 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Lunardi was ranked the 36th most accurate last year. That's all you need to know.
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03-10-2014, 08:46 AM
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I know Lunardi gets the biggest "voice" getting referenced on ESPN as if he was the end all/be all, but as TA says, over the last handful of seasons, he's no more than average amongst the most followed bracketologist. Having UD in the "last four in" would put his view of UD near the bottom of most bracketologist. Now, if I'm Archie, I'm selling that, I'm not letting UD rest on the laurels, I don't want them feeling comfortable, I want them thinking Thursday is a must win as well as Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
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03-10-2014, 09:27 AM
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I think we are playing to avoid the First Four right now, not to be in the tournament.
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03-10-2014, 09:34 AM
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Not playing for First Four according to Dance Card
http://www.unf.edu/~jcoleman/dance.htm
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03-10-2014, 09:40 AM
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03-10-2014, 09:59 AM
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Colonel
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Does anyone else not put this in the same category with the University of South Carolina's Lady Gaga Course?
http://www.sc.edu/news/newsarticle.p...7#.Ux3E8fldXOg
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03-10-2014, 10:17 AM
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UD offers these challenging courses:
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03-10-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony T 71
I've go $50. That says 6 teams don't get in from the a10!
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I'll take that bet! Easy money!
Last edited by ud2; 03-10-2014 at 11:00 AM..
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03-10-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
UD offers these challenging courses:
The Beatles in Literature and Film
Bob Dylan as Literature
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Both of those make a lot more sense than the bracketology/Lady Gaga courses. Wish they'd had them when I was a student.
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03-10-2014, 11:08 AM
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Major
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Yes, a bubble team's strength flows from quality wins. But beware of the eye test. Inequity, bias, prejudice; the eye test are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you. If once you start down the dark path of the eye test, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume it you will, as it did Lunardi.
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03-10-2014, 11:16 AM
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Major
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Soap Box Alert:
If this Flyers team is not in this tournament and for that matter ST. Joes too it is an absolute crock and representation of this NCAA system. I don't care how many BCS and Non BCS teams make it. I don't care if 8 A-10 teams got in. The point is conference affiliation is supposed to be set aside for best teams to make the best tournament. Dayton has proven themselves to be in this field
It will be merely for the fact that Big Money BCS conferences do all the barking.
This Flyers team is 22-9. Sure 22-10 with a loss to GM or Fordham would be tough but to play 9-1 in this conference and close the season with 3 straight against very tought teams is simply a great feat.
As for St. Joes they beat us twice head to head, we beat GW, Cal...hence why I also believe the eye test needs to serve here. Measure Dayton against some of these teams.
Listen I picked the Flyer to be 19-12 this year and to go 7-9 in conference. As recently as 3 weeks ago I stated they probably were not an NCAA team. I am a Huge Flyers fan. I have ate my crow for being down on them so now I am ranting. If you start doing apples to apples comp you will see Dayton's RPI outweighing other. Then people go into the SOS for these teams. All the while mentioning that the NCAA does nothing to help smaller schools fairly get on the BCS schools schedule. Sure you may have to do a 2 for 1 to get a game. Point to a bigger problem with college baseketball this is about the inequity of scheduling rights for mid tier programs. Ever since Dayton blew the roof off against Pitt years ago a big time program won't come here. I don't blame them because if you are not required to then why would you?? Its all about the dollar and I get that but don't penalize teams for it.
Ok sorry for that, I stated if they beat Richmond were a lock. I stll state that. I think a win on Thursday makes them a 1000% lock and I dont care if 6 teams get in from this league. Now with that said upsets in conf title games could hurt Dayton and 1 team leagues getting 2. But we will see.
One game at a time.
"I guess there's only one thing left to do" -Jake Taylor
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03-10-2014, 12:03 PM
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St Joe vs. (presumably) Dayton is in much likelihood an NCAA play-in game.
Loser goes to NIT.
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03-10-2014, 12:10 PM
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Several bubble teams have opportunity to bolster. Maybe all will flop?
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03-10-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1
St Joe vs. (presumably) Dayton is in much likelihood an NCAA play-in game.
Loser goes to NIT.
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Why?? Did the committee make this game part of the First Four?
Why would this game matter any more than a game from the Maui Tournament? If you lose three times to one team, you are excluded? Is that a new rule too?
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03-10-2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1
St Joe vs. (presumably) Dayton is in much likelihood an NCAA play-in game.
Loser goes to NIT.
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I think I agree with this. I do remember a year where UD had a fairly low RPI (42 if memory serves) and they didn't get in. A loss on Thursday Likely drops them to 50 or worse so that's out of the question. A 50+ puts them into the NIT. A loss against St. Joes would be 3 losses to them this year- and I'd find that almost equally hard to overcome. Not saying a loss to them kills the NCAA dream but it could. I won't feel really good unless I see the Flyers in the semis on Saturday - I hate to voice that opinion because clearly I think they deserve to be in based on last 10-12 games of the year-- but the NCAA selection committee seems to slight the Flyers historically and I just don't think a lone victory followed by a loss get us in. An appearance in the quarters isn't quite enough.
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03-10-2014, 12:31 PM
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What happened to all the talk of win 1 in Brooklyn and we are in? The bubble talking heads getting to you? The Hobbit Lunardi is off his rocker thinking we are the second-to-last team in right now.
- We are a 10-seed right now in my opinion
- Make the Semifinals or Finals, we are a 9-seed
- Lose to St Joe's, we are First Four game
- Lose first game, we are probably out. 40% of First Four
- Win the A10 tourname.....LOL. We aren't winning the A10 tournament.
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03-10-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
I think I agree with this. I do remember a year where UD had a fairly low RPI (42 if memory serves) and they didn't get in. A loss on Thursday Likely drops them to 50 or worse so that's out of the question. A 50+ puts them into the NIT. A loss against St. Joes would be 3 losses to them this year- and I'd find that almost equally hard to overcome. Not saying a loss to them kills the NCAA dream but it could. I won't feel really good unless I see the Flyers in the semis on Saturday - I hate to voice that opinion because clearly I think they deserve to be in based on last 10-12 games of the year-- but the NCAA selection committee seems to slight the Flyers historically and I just don't think a lone victory followed by a loss get us in. An appearance in the quarters isn't quite enough.
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The best rpi UD ever had and not get an NCAA invitation was like 38 or something Chris Wright's freshman season. However, one needs to look further into that team than just taking the rpi at face value (kind of like the committee does) That was a team that with both Chris Wright & Brob was awesome, thrashed Pitt, won at Louisville was sky high OOC. Then Wright got hurt against Rhode Island I believe and the team was never the same. They finished below .500 in the A10, they lost multiple games down the stretch to bad teams, they were nothing like the team from the OOC portion of the schedule. That team didn't deserve an NCAA bid, regardless of what their rpi said, there were few, if any good conference wins and lots of poor conference losses, plus a team that was playing below .500 ball in the form they would enter the NCAA in (ie w/o Chris Wright) You can't really hold that season against the committee for not selecting UD, they were right not to include that team (as much as I would have loved for it to happen).
This year is different, UD has all the things they're looking for. Solid wins OOC, solid wins in conference, solid wins on the road, an above .500 conference record, a strong finish to the season, etc.... Plus the field has been expanded by 3 teams since then.
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03-10-2014, 12:49 PM
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I'll even right now go so far as to say that 6 A10 teams are locks right now, and all 6 will be seeded better than the First Four.
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03-10-2014, 12:53 PM
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All sounds reasonable,...
Originally Posted by Medford
The best rpi UD ever had and not get an NCAA invitation was like 38 or something Chris Wright's freshman season. However, one needs to look further into that team than just taking the rpi at face value (kind of like the committee does) That was a team that with both Chris Wright & Brob was awesome, thrashed Pitt, won at Louisville was sky high OOC. Then Wright got hurt against Rhode Island I believe and the team was never the same. They finished below .500 in the A10, they lost multiple games down the stretch to bad teams, they were nothing like the team from the OOC portion of the schedule. That team didn't deserve an NCAA bid, regardless of what their rpi said, there were few, if any good conference wins and lots of poor conference losses, plus a team that was playing below .500 ball in the form they would enter the NCAA in (ie w/o Chris Wright) You can't really hold that season against the committee for not selecting UD, they were right not to include that team (as much as I would have loved for it to happen).
This year is different, UD has all the things they're looking for. Solid wins OOC, solid wins in conference, solid wins on the road, an above .500 conference record, a strong finish to the season, etc.... Plus the field has been expanded by 3 teams since then.
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....but, as you know, every year there are stunners,...both ins and outs,...that generate controversy.
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03-10-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I'll even right now go so far as to say that 6 A10 teams are locks right now, and all 6 will be seeded better than the First Four.
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I mostly agree. If UMass, VCU, or SLU lose their first game, they're still in. If GWU loses their first game, it won't be a bad loss - they're in.
If Dayton loses their first game, they're probably last eight in. Probably an 11 seed, not in First Four (but I'd rather not sweat a bad loss, which a loss to GMU or Fordham would be).
If SJU loses to GMU/Fordham (heaven forbid), they're in deep trouble, right on the cut line. If they lose to Dayton, they're probably going to Dayton Tuesday.
For Dayton, I predict:
If the season ended today: 9 seed
4 wins: 7 or 8, 6 with a lot of help
3 wins: 8 seed, maybe 7
2 wins: 9 seed, maybe 8
1 win: 10 seed
0 wins: 11 seed and sweating on Sunday
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03-10-2014, 01:17 PM
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Whatever.
UD is 9-1 over their last 10 games. 3 of those victories are over teams that are supposedly locks (GW, UMass, SLU). RPI 26, 14, and 16. If that doesn't say tournament ready I don't know what does. Not too mention we finished ahead of UMass in league standings by way of owning the tie breaker ... head to head match up. If UMass goes UD goes.
I agree go out and get the first round W, but in my opinion they should be in as is. Lunardi sucks.
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03-10-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
I mostly agree. If UMass, VCU, or SLU lose their first game, they're still in. If GWU loses their first game, it won't be a bad loss - they're in.
If Dayton loses their first game, they're probably last eight in. Probably an 11 seed, not in First Four (but I'd rather not sweat a bad loss, which a loss to GMU or Fordham would be).
If SJU loses to GMU/Fordham (heaven forbid), they're in deep trouble, right on the cut line. If they lose to Dayton, they're probably going to Dayton Tuesday.
For Dayton, I predict:
If the season ended today: 9 seed
4 wins: 7 or 8, 6 with a lot of help
3 wins: 8 seed, maybe 7
2 wins: 9 seed, maybe 8
1 win: 10 seed
0 wins: 11 seed and sweating on Sunday
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SJU went 11-5 in the A10, good for tied for 3rd place in the A10.
SJU's sos is 66, and they are something like 6-8 vs. the rpi top 100, I think they are a lock.
And yes I agree, the more wins UD gets in Brooklyn, the better UD's seed will be.
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03-10-2014, 01:19 PM
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[QUOTE=SC_Flyer;345919]Why?? Did the committee make this game part of the First Four?
I want to be wrong if Dayton loses, but:
How many think that the loser as it stands now won't be the last, or second last in AT BEST. Forget Joey Brackets. Look at the Bracket Matrix with most formal pundits weighing in.
Perception counts. Do you really think the media in front of this game aren't going to tout this for all it is worth? (as what is being posited here by TonyT71)
If any of numerous teams does what Oregon did beating Arizona, or Nebraska beating Wisconsin, do you really think the committee won't look at the St Joe/Dayton loser unfavorably? Any team from the bubble that even inches up with just good (not great) tournament wins, puts the loser of this game in serious jeopardy.
The more hard-nosed efforts the last couple of games is what is needed. Any double digit loss, (even with no externals), will put Dayton out. I think Dayton will play well, but they MUST win, else the odds are less than even.
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03-10-2014, 01:22 PM
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Joey showing Wright St as a 16. Looking at resumes, they are on the ragged edge of being First 4 material. Wofford, Weber St, and WSU all with similar credentials for the 4th First Four position. If Milwaukee were to pull off the upset, they have a better RPI.
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03-10-2014, 01:26 PM
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2008 Chris Wright's freshman year UD team. DanceCard had UD in (missed)
http://www.unf.edu/~jcoleman/dance2008.htm
Politics do come into play. 6 A10 teams might not happen
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03-10-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic
Joey showing Wright St as a 16. Looking at resumes, they are on the ragged edge of being First 4 material. Wofford, Weber St, and WSU all with similar credentials for the 4th First Four position. If Milwaukee were to pull off the upset, they have a better RPI.
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So, will UD fans cheer for the Raiders if they play in the First Four???
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03-10-2014, 01:40 PM
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Major
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If the A10 was a BCS conference no one would blink at these 6 teams..
They all deserve to be in the dance!
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03-10-2014, 01:42 PM
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That wasn't politics, that was injuries. The team at the beginning of the season with Chris Wright was awesome, and had a great resume. When Wright went down with the injury (and subsequently Little was out 3 games too, and BRob had mono, right?) the team changed heavily. Since he didn't play before Selection Sunday, the committee had to assume he wasn't going to play again. If he had played in a game in the A10 Tourney, things might have been different. He didn't play in the first NIT game, played 10 minutes in the second, and then 18 against Ohio State.
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03-10-2014, 01:46 PM
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No mono
Originally Posted by Figgie123
That wasn't politics, that was injuries. The team at the beginning of the season with Chris Wright was awesome, and had a great resume. When Wright went down with the injury (and subsequently Little was out 3 games too, and BRob had mono, right?) the team changed heavily. Since he didn't play before Selection Sunday, the committee had to assume he wasn't going to play again. If he had played in a game in the A10 Tourney, things might have been different. He didn't play in the first NIT game, played 10 minutes in the second, and then 18 against Ohio State.
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BRob had baby and at some point, I think everyone on the team had the flu at the same time.
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03-10-2014, 01:47 PM
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Figgie check out where dancecard had Illionois St ranked that year.
Point is dancecard has been wrong sometimes way off in the past.
The politics comment was to this year and six A10 teams getting in.
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03-10-2014, 02:09 PM
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Personally, I cheer for one team. I'm pretty indifferent to anything that happens with WSU.
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03-10-2014, 02:13 PM
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When the dancecard has been wrong it has been by only a couple of spots (and they haven't been wrong very often). Also, another analytical model by KPI also has UD in the 8 seed range. Dancecard has us at 31 and 47 is the cutoff. There is no way they would be off by 17 slots. Watch their video and you will see these guys really know their stuff.
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03-10-2014, 02:19 PM
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great question!
Absolutely. They're no threat to us with respect to recruiting and it would help establish SW Ohio and Dayton as a basketball City instead of a basketball town.
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03-10-2014, 02:44 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
That wasn't politics, that was injuries.
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So our losses that occurred when we had injuries this season should not count as much against us, unless of course politics play a role
Originally Posted by rollo
UD offers these challenging courses:
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Is your assessment based on the syllabus or based on the subject without having a clue as to the course requirements?
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03-10-2014, 02:49 PM
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/col...r-yourself.ece
Great article from this years mock selection. Please note- conference affiliation is irrelevant and more importantly, good wins heavily outweigh bad losses. That is why Dancecard has the Flyers ranked so high. Very few teams have 4 wins against the top 30 RPI.
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03-10-2014, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I'll even right now go so far as to say that 6 A10 teams are locks right now, and all 6 will be seeded better than the First Four.
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I would agree but I caution that the NCAA has the keys to those locks
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03-10-2014, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/col...r-yourself.ece
Great article from this years mock selection. Please note- conference affiliation is irrelevant and more importantly, good wins heavily outweigh bad losses. That is why Dancecard has the Flyers ranked so high. Very few teams have 4 wins against the top 30 RPI.
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*When faced with the quandary of a team with impressive wins and head-scratching losses, such as North Carolina, the committee puts more emphasis on the wins. As Gavitt noted, nearly all the games in the tournament come against top-50 opponents.
This makes me feel a little better. Just a little.
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03-10-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/col...r-yourself.ece
Great article from this years mock selection. Please note- conference affiliation is irrelevant and more importantly, good wins heavily outweigh bad losses. That is why Dancecard has the Flyers ranked so high. Very few teams have 4 wins against the top 30 RPI.
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Another thing to note from that article, though its not stated. Notice the date it was done, somewhere around Feb 14th to 18 (article first posted on the 14th, last edited ont he 18th, so I think its safe to assume the media was meeting prior to the 14th, actually I think I remember reading somewhere about somebody doing this over VDay, so I think they did the process on the 13th & 14th.
When they released their results, I think most agreed "last 4 out" that seems about right for the flyers (that even included a "surprise entrant" Illini) From that point forward, UD has gone 5-1, including 2 road wins and 2 wins over top 25 rpi teams SLU and UMass, 2 top 100 wins in LaSalle and Richmond. There is the craptastic blowout at St Joes on the downside. I think you would be hard pressed to find any teams that did more over that time frame than our Flyers.
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03-10-2014, 03:39 PM
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I like this tweet from Palm too.
Jerry Palm @jppalmCBS
Because the other 28 games count MT @BulldawgBoy: How does Mizzou have a better chance then UGa to make the tourney when they beat em twice?
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Mad Props to CE80 For This Totally Excellent Post:
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03-10-2014, 05:52 PM
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FWIW, www.realtimerpi.com/2012-2013/rpi_Men.html has compiled all the rpis from this year through the 2003-2004 season.
www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html
UD is #39 right now on this year's list.
Just scroll to the bottom of the page to get the previous year's list.
I'm 99% sure those lists are the rpis at the end of the regular season and do not include conference tournament games and NCAA tournament games.
There have been many teams with better rpis get left out of the dance when compared to the rpis of those teams that did get in.
Anyway, here are the final regular season rpis of the last non-BCS at large bid teams:
2012-2013 #46 LaSalle
2011-2012 #46 BYU
2010-2011 #49 VCU
2009-2010 #48 UNLV
2008-2009 #29 BYU
I don't remember when the First Four began.
realtimerpi stopped differentiating between at large bid teams and automatic bid teams starting with the 2007-2008 season running through the 2005-2006 season.
realtimerpi didn't keep track of who got a bid for the 2004-2005 and 2003-2004 seasons, and the 2003-2004 season is the last year of their rpi data.
Last edited by ud2; 03-10-2014 at 06:00 PM..
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03-10-2014, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1
Several bubble teams have opportunity to bolster. Maybe all will flop?
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Haiku?
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03-11-2014, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter
Haiku?
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Dayton is a lock
But the world fails to see it
Maybe I am wrong
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03-11-2014, 12:53 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow
Dayton is a lock
But the world fails to see it
Maybe I am wrong
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You have not mastered the eye test.
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03-11-2014, 12:56 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Originally Posted by bobber
You have not mastered the eye test.
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"Eye test" is a ruse
It is the "famous school" test
Dayton fails that test
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03-11-2014, 06:22 AM
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EYE TEST
Look carefully at which conference the team plays in….
If they do not play BCS football, then they fail the eye test
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03-11-2014, 09:29 AM
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I say UD should just assume they are on the bubble and not take anything to chances on the "eye test." UD should focus on winning the A10 tournament one game at a time!
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03-11-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Absolutely. They're no threat to us with respect to recruiting and it would help establish SW Ohio and Dayton as a basketball City instead of a basketball town.
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The Raiders are favored by 6 playing at home at the Nutter Center tonight, it looks like there is a good chance that they will make the tournament for the 3rd time in their history.
They split with Milwaukee this year, their two games against each other occurred only 9 days apart.
I thought this excerpt about the Nutter Center was pretty funny, this site has the Raiders as a 14 seed:
The Horizon Tourney has been turned inside-out with top seeds Green bay and Cleveland State dumped before the finale, which now features Wright State hosting UW-Milwaukee on Tuesday night at the Nutter Center, to this point better known as the venue where John McCain announced Sarah Palin as his GOP running mate in late August of 2008.
http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-.../story/1521356
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03-11-2014, 11:40 AM
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I went back through the last 5 years of NCAA tournament team selections from www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html.
The First Four began with the 2011 tournament.
UD is #39 on this year's list, UD's SOS on realtimerpi is 55.
Some observations:
1. 2012-2013 season:
non-BCS final regular season rpi cutoff line was rpi #46.
Exception:
#31 Southern Mississippi, SOS of 74
2. 2011-2012 season:
non-BCS final regular season rpi cutoff line was rpi #46.
Exception:
#44 Marshall, SOS of 23
3. 2010-2011 season:
non-BCS final regular season rpi cutoff line was rpi #49.
Exceptions:
#46 Saint Mary's, SOS of 100
#43 Missouri State, SOS of 128
#42 Cleveland State, SOS of 105
#35 Harvard, SOS of 140
4. 2009-2010 season, no First Four:
non-BCS final regular season rpi cutoff line was rpi #48.
Exceptions:
#45 UAB, SOS of 101
#43 Wichita State, SOS of 105
#40 Rhode Island, SOS of 72
5. 2008-2009 season, no First Four:
non-BCS final regular season rpi cutoff line was rpi #29.
No exceptions, every non-BCS team that was #29 or better(UD was #27 that year)made the tournament.
Last edited by ud2; 03-11-2014 at 11:47 AM..
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03-11-2014, 02:30 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Bet the phone lines are getting a work out this week.
"How in heaven's name can the SEC get only two......TWO. You can't be a part of that."
"Where in heavens name does it say the fourth best conference in the RPI gets only three teams? It's never gonna happen. We're better than that."
"Five teams for the A-10? You gotta be kidding me!"
And on and on. The lobbying, that everyone will swear up and down doesn't happen, is happening.
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03-11-2014, 03:36 PM
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Bobber, I can't give them a canned response for all of those, but the SEC one is easy.
Talking head: "Mr. NCAA tourny guy, how is is possible the mighty SEC doesn't have more than 2 teams in the dance."
Mr NCAA Tourney guy: "because aside from the 2 teams in the dance (UK & Florida) those other 12 teams played an embarrising 14 true road game, and even worse, only won 3 of them, including a game at Coastal Carolina that was only played "on the road" because it was part of one of the exempt early season tournaments. We wanted to give all of those schools plenty of time in March to explore this great country, because it was obvious they did not have time for a road trip in November and December."
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03-11-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
Bobber, I can't give them a canned response for all of those, but the SEC one is easy.
Talking head: "Mr. NCAA tourny guy, how is is possible the mighty SEC doesn't have more than 2 teams in the dance."
Mr NCAA Tourney guy: "because aside from the 2 teams in the dance (UK & Florida) those other 12 teams played an embarrising 14 true road game, and even worse, only won 3 of them, including a game at Coastal Carolina that was only played "on the road" because it was part of one of the exempt early season tournaments. We wanted to give all of those schools plenty of time in March to explore this great country, because it was obvious they did not have time for a road trip in November and December."
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Awesome!
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03-11-2014, 03:54 PM
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I was there it was electric
Last edited by UDEE79; 03-11-2014 at 03:59 PM..
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