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  #1  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:12 PM
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This seems bad

https://twitter.com/bwehrli_10/statu...47389198430209

Not sure I've seen former players criticizing new coaches offensive strategy before.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:23 PM
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It's not bad. It's realism and not living in a dream world.

And don't worry I took screenshots in case the UD admins call them and ask them to delete those tweets.

People don't have to take a bunch of message board posters seriously but if you have former players who gave their all for the program questioning what is going on they need to pay attention.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:25 PM
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It's Archie's fault remember
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:38 PM
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#Trustheprocess

After 2.5 years in January 2014, former players, fans, etc. we’re questioning Archie and many calling for him to be fired. Tim Wabler and Neil Sullivan ignored the noise and gave Archie an extension in January/February 2014.

AG is implementing his system with inexperienced players and AG has been away from college ball for a couple years; AG has made coaching mistakes this year. But keys this season are recruiting, player development, and implementing his system.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:43 PM
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Criticism of AGs offense at Alabama from numerous sources
-Blame Nick Saban, football & cite Ken Pom that he was better than Central Arkansas

Criticism of AGs offense from watching the team this year
-Blame Archie & youth

Criticism of AGs offense from a former player
- wait for it
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Criticism of AGs offense at Alabama from numerous sources
-Blame Nick Saban, football & cite Ken Pom that he was better than Central Arkansas

Criticism of AGs offense from watching the team this year
-Blame Archie & youth

Criticism of AGs offense from a former player
- wait for it
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You forgot to mention the VCU fans who love AG for recruiting the players who got them to the Final 4 but love Shaka for actually doing the "COACHING" that got them there.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:04 PM
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I know many of you do not respect Crosby’s playing but he was sorely missed today especially in a road game! We just can’t catch a break!
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  #8  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:29 PM
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If there's one guy who knows what good offense looks like, it's Bobby Wehrli.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:30 PM
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There were some very interesting comments on that thread.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
If there's one guy who knows what good offense looks like, it's Bobby Wehrli.
Be careful, a lot of successful MLB coaches out there that couldn't hit there way out of a brown paper bag. Nick Saban, not exactly an NFL all pro.

While I fully acknowledge Wehrli is not at that level, I wouldn't dismiss his ability to assess what he sees.
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Be careful, a lot of successful MLB coaches out there that couldn't hit there way out of a brown paper bag. Nick Saban, not exactly an NFL all pro.

While I fully acknowledge Wehrli is not at that level, I wouldn't dismiss his ability to assess what he sees.
I don't think price75g was being a smartass there. I think he was agreeing with Bobby's thoughts
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
#Trustheprocess

After 2.5 years in January 2014, former players, fans, etc. we’re questioning Archie and many calling for him to be fired. Tim Wabler and Neil Sullivan ignored the noise and gave Archie an extension in January/February 2014.

AG is implementing his system with inexperienced players and AG has been away from college ball for a couple years; AG has made coaching mistakes this year. But keys this season are recruiting, player development, and implementing his system.
I haven't seen anything this year that makes me "trust" the process. We all know how the process ended at Alabama. I'd love to cling to anything, but right now it wouldn't be anything more than blind faith.

I'm also not buying the comparison to Archie. Archie took a limited roster in his first year and we were likely a Kavs layup away from the dance. I saw him adjust to Benson tearing his ACL by going with a 4 out, 1 in offense and rattling off 4 of 5 wins to start A10 play with 3 of those being top 50 wins. The collapse afterwards is what frustrated people and brought back memories of so many BG teams. Same with year 3. Early season success, top 25 ranking, and collapse to start A10 play. The frustration was if he was going to be the one to get us over the hump.

With AG, that hump is somewhere out in the distance. I'm now just supposed to believe that Penn and Duquesne have better players than us. Cohill is a great start to his recruiting at UD, but I'm concerned it's going to be a tougher sell recruiting for a team coming off a potential losing season compared to one that was coming off of 4 straight NCAA's,
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
I haven't seen anything this year that makes me "trust" the process. We all know how the process ended at Alabama. I'd love to cling to anything, but right now it wouldn't be anything more than blind faith.

I'm also not buying the comparison to Archie. Archie took a limited roster in his first year and we were likely a Kavs layup away from the dance. I saw him adjust to Benson tearing his ACL by going with a 4 out, 1 in offense and rattling off 4 of 5 wins to start A10 play with 3 of those being top 50 wins. The collapse afterwards is what frustrated people and brought back memories of so many BG teams. Same with year 3. Early season success, top 25 ranking, and collapse to start A10 play. The frustration was if he was going to be the one to get us over the hump.

With AG, that hump is somewhere out in the distance. I'm now just supposed to believe that Penn and Duquesne have better players than us. Cohill is a great start to his recruiting at UD, but I'm concerned it's going to be a tougher sell recruiting for a team coming off a potential losing season compared to one that was coming off of 4 straight NCAA's,
I'm worried too that the sell is going to get a lot harder
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'm worried too that the sell is going to get a lot harder
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Alabama went 17-15 in Grant's first year, and they brought in 4 good recruits and probably should've made the NCAA in year 2, going 25-12.

There is precedent.
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I don't think price75g was being a smartass there. I think he was agreeing with Bobby's thoughts
No, Jeff had me pegged.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Archie took a limited roster in his first year and we were likely a Kavs layup away from the dance.
I don't know, that seems like a stretch.

We had a regular season rpi of 81 that year. Even if Kavs makes the layup to win at Xavier, I doubt that is enough to get us in. We were a 2 seed in the NIT, so we were likely not one of the last four out.

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Old 12-31-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Alabama went 17-15 in Grant's first year, and they brought in 4 good recruits and probably should've made the NCAA in year 2, going 25-12.

There is precedent.
That also seems like a stretch. Alabama had a regular season rpi of 80 that year, that is just not good enough. But, they did get a 1 seed in the NIT.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:34 AM
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But, I can maybe buy 2013 as being a year where Grant and Alabama just missed the NCAAT. Regular season rpi of 60, 1 seed in the NIT, 20-12 regular season record.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:48 AM
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as if I care...

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
https://twitter.com/bwehrli_10/statu...47389198430209

Not sure I've seen former players criticizing new coaches offensive strategy before.
What are these 2 unbiased players saying about Indiana?
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:28 AM
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Reading the "clarification" tweet further down by BW...he is absolutely right.

Yes...there are coaching/personnel challenges this year. If you don't see that then you are blind.

With that said...BW isn't calling for a revamped system but rather fundamental execution. If you don't get the ball in the **** paint, you will struggle. Our best player is a post and that said post needs to be worked more. He shouldn't be getting double doubles off garbage buckets on boards. Half of his points should be in the execution of the (a) system.

If I don't know what the hell I am talking about then so be it. But if this "system" is that reliant on "his players" then he better be able to get "his players".

BG was given the pass that he needed his players for his system. Unfortunately he didn't get those players and had a stagnant offensive system with athletes playing the game of basketball versus basketball players playing basketball.

AM had a intricate system with a ton of options off of base sets. There was movement, one hitters, screens, movement with a purpose, etc.

AG's system isn't getting it done right now and his system wouldn't get it done this year with a balanced roster. I honestly don't thing the stellar group of seniors last year would thrive much in this system either as they needed discipline in an offensive system to not be selfish with the ball. AM's system, when ran properly created even distribution of the ball and even opportunity. AG's system is let the best man win. The players on the floor aren't suited for that.

Hoping for the best, but something is amiss right now and it isn't just the offensive sets.
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I don't know, that seems like a stretch.

We had a regular season rpi of 81 that year. Even if Kavs makes the layup to win at Xavier, I doubt that is enough to get us in. We were a 2 seed in the NIT, so we were likely not one of the last four out.
Maybe, maybe not. It would have been our 5th Top 50 win and should have knocked Xavier off the bubble or at least behind us. Opportunity verse SLU for a 6th. The point was that team was close getting over the hump, but didn't.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:29 AM
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Coaches are stubborn with their systems. How many times did this board (and if the truth be told Archie's assistants) implore Archie to make a few tweaks to his defense by playing zone just a little per game to mix things up. Archie did not tweak his system, he focused on his pack-like man-to-man defense and teaching it to his players.

Archie's defense was #160 in 2012 and #145 in 2013. Dayton probably could have won a couple games more in 2012 and 2013 by tweaking his defensive system and playing zone more. But he focused on the long term process and taught the system he believed in.

So does not surprise me about AG's stubbornness implementing his offensive system. Not saying it will work out in the long-term, but willing to give AG more thann 13 games. BTW, I actually agree with Wherli's suggested tweaks to AG'a offense and argued Archie should play more zone. But again coaches stubbornly focusing on their system does not surprise me (and they know more than I do).

My frustration has not been the wins or losses as I thought Dayton would be slightly bettter than .500. My frustration has been player development, specifically the lack of Freshman player developmental . I have seen huge progress by Baby D, Josh, Trey, and Jordan Davis. But have seen regression or not much progress by X, Crosby, Kostas, Crutcher, Svoboda, and Pearce. So 4/5 Freshman little to no progress. That is what concerns me.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:24 PM
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Things I don't like. 1. Based on the first part of season, I thought Svoboda was the last option for playing time ( excluding Pierce of course). This game he is the first option off the bench. 2. What has happened to Williams ( injury, doghouse,?)3. Our starting lineup is the shortest group I've ever seen. 4. What has Kostas ever done to allow him to talk trash? He has, right now, limited game skills and his antics are embarrassing. 4. The last three minutes of the first half of the Dukes game was the worst I've ever seen and I've been following for 60 years.5. Doesn't it appear that on half our shots, we don't have a rebounder within 15 feet of basket.

I'm tired and can't go on complaining. Doesn't it feel like we are going over a cliff and the other side is a return to the Obrien team records.

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Old 12-31-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Coaches are stubborn with their systems. How many times did this board (and if the truth be told Archie's assistants) implore Archie to make a few tweaks to his defense by playing zone just a little per game to mix things up. Archie did not tweak his system, he focused on his pack-like man-to-man defense and teaching it to his players.

Archie's defense was #160 in 2012 and #145 in 2013. Dayton probably could have won a couple games more in 2012 and 2013 by tweaking his defensive system and playing zone more. But he focused on the long term process and taught the system he believed in.

So does not surprise me about AG's stubbornness implementing his offensive system. Not saying it will work out in the long-term, but willing to give AG more thann 13 games. BTW, I actually agree with Wherli's suggested tweaks to AG'a offense and argued Archie should play more zone. But again coaches stubbornly focusing on their system does not surprise me (and they know more than I do).

My frustration has not been the wins or losses as I thought Dayton would be slightly bettter than .500. My frustration has been player development, specifically the lack of Freshman player developmental . I have seen huge progress by Baby D, Josh, Trey, and Jordan Davis. But have seen regression or not much progress by X, Crosby, Kostas, Crutcher, Svoboda, and Pearce. So 4/5 Freshman little to no progress. That is what concerns me.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
https://twitter.com/bwehrli_10/statu...47389198430209

Not sure I've seen former players criticizing new coaches offensive strategy before.
That is only because the various social media outlets for former players has only been around for a short time.

Right or wrong... I have personally heard multiple former players criticize the new coaches offense (as I'm sure many of you have as well).

So now I'm supposed to be concerned with what Bobby Wherli thinks... maybe we need a panel of 4 random sports people to break this tweet from Bobby down for me, since I can't think for myself and judge the games for what I see myself.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
That is only because the various social media outlets for former players has only been around for a short time.

Right or wrong... I have personally heard multiple former players criticize the new coaches offense (as I'm sure many of you have as well).

So now I'm supposed to be concerned with what Bobby Wherli thinks... maybe we need a panel of 4 random sports people to break this tweet from Bobby down for me, since I can't think for myself and judge the games for what I see myself.
You don't have to be concerned with what anyone thinks. You can choose to or not. I found it interesting and frankly, his observation was correct. Everyone on this board has said we need more touches down low rather than just running side screens. So I'm not exactly sure what your point is.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:37 PM
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Rue if you don’t think Crosby has improved significantly then I have no idea what you have been watching??
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Coaches are stubborn with their systems. How many times did this board (and if the truth be told Archie's assistants) implore Archie to make a few tweaks to his defense by playing zone just a little per game to mix things up. Archie did not tweak his system, he focused on his pack-like man-to-man defense and teaching it to his players.

Archie's defense was #160 in 2012 and #145 in 2013. Dayton probably could have won a couple games more in 2012 and 2013 by tweaking his defensive system and playing zone more. But he focused on the long term process and taught the system he believed in.

So does not surprise me about AG's stubbornness implementing his offensive system. Not saying it will work out in the long-term, but willing to give AG more thann 13 games. BTW, I actually agree with Wherli's suggested tweaks to AG'a offense and argued Archie should play more zone. But again coaches stubbornly focusing on their system does not surprise me (and they know more than I do).

My frustration has not been the wins or losses as I thought Dayton would be slightly bettter than .500. My frustration has been player development, specifically the lack of Freshman player developmental . I have seen huge progress by Baby D, Josh, Trey, and Jordan Davis. But have seen regression or not much progress by X, Crosby, Kostas, Crutcher, Svoboda, and Pearce. So 4/5 Freshman little to no progress. That is what concerns me.
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Both the pack line and 2-3 zone serve similar objectives (protect the paint, cut off dribble penetration) and are vulnerable against 3 point shooting teams. Early on there were a lot more breakdowns due to poor positioning, which I have a hard time believing would improve in a zone in any meaningful way. It's not like he was trying to run pressure man to man defense without the athletes to do it and too stubborn to switch.

As for AG’s offensive system, what concerns me is the abundance of NBA concepts that do not lend themselves as well to the college game. That’s in part to do with the talent being better and NBA, as well as NBA rules. In college basketball, almost runs some variation of the pack line to stop dribble penetration. Similar to attacking a 2-3 zone, outside of shooting them out of it, the key is to use spacing and ball reversals to create gaps for dribble penetration. You make the defense work. As Bobby points out, these side screens are easy to defend. You have the help side defense in place and a lot of times that screener just brings an additional defender there which just serves to congest things. This has caused us to settle for more 3 point attempts because we are not getting that same penetration.

I mentioned in early in the season that the offense was running in reverse. Instead of working it inside-out, we have been relying on hitting 3 point shots to open up the floor. That’s when the offense has looked the best. Hit a couple threes and that help defender can’t sag off as far on the shooter and that creates driving lanes for other action. The problem is that is just not a sustainable strategy. As we have seen this year, when you aren't hitting from the perimeter, the defense compacts making it that much harder to establish anything on the inside.

I know it’s easy to say that Grant just needs to get guys that fit his system, but we need to at least acknowledge that it is going to more difficult than some are making it out to be. Grant’s system is simpler than Archie’s, which means we are going rely more on individual talent than the system itself to create shots. Grant is going to need to recruit/develop guy that check off more boxes than Archie. Even looking at last year’s seniors, there’s too many holes in their games where I don’t think they would have had the same level of success in Grant’s system. It’s not going to be easy task.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawnee2 View Post
Rue if you don’t think Crosby has improved significantly then I have no idea what you have been watching??
It is a fair point, I should have put Crosby in the materially improved bucket. His kenpom offensive rating has gone from about 75 his first two years to about 100 which is a huge jump.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
It is a fair point, I should have put Crosby in the materially improved bucket. His kenpom offensive rating has gone from about 75 his first two years to about 100 which is a huge jump.
Do you own stock in kenpom?
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Do you own stock in kenpom?
Stock?

Have you every seen ruechalgrin and kenpom in the same place?
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:17 AM
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lol very hard longtime fan and CE80, just believe kenpom is the most objective fact based system about college basketball out there. I am not big on anecdotes and love statistical insights. Great insights like getting 26.9% offensive rebounds when we miss a shot for 240th in the nation. Every offense rebound is worth about a point. Big issue with the Dayton this year and would not have perceived it but for kenpom!
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
lol very hard longtime fan and CE80, just believe kenpom is the most objective fact based system about college basketball out there. I am not big on anecdotes and love statistical insights. Great insights like getting 26.9% offensive rebounds when we miss a shot for 240th in the nation. Every offense rebound is worth about a point. Big issue with the Dayton this year and would not have perceived it but for kenpom!
I don't need kenpom or pom-pom to tell me we've struggled with offensive rebounding.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Great insights like getting 26.9% offensive rebounds when we miss a shot for 240th in the nation. Every offense rebound is worth about a point. Big issue with the Dayton this year and would not have perceived it but for kenpom!
This is actually the number 1 head scratcher for me when I watch UD play this year. More than minutes distribution, more than offensive scheme. It seems like 75% of the shots we take are when we have no one within 10 feet of rebounding position, then, everyone who might have been close just runs the other way.

Every shot that goes up when no one is in position to rebound I say out loud "bad shot". Doesn't matter if it goes in, it's a bad shot. And I seem to say it again and again with this team.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Both the pack line and 2-3 zone serve similar objectives (protect the paint, cut off dribble penetration) and are vulnerable against 3 point shooting teams. Early on there were a lot more breakdowns due to poor positioning, which I have a hard time believing would improve in a zone in any meaningful way. It's not like he was trying to run pressure man to man defense without the athletes to do it and too stubborn to switch.

As for AG’s offensive system, what concerns me is the abundance of NBA concepts that do not lend themselves as well to the college game. That’s in part to do with the talent being better and NBA, as well as NBA rules. In college basketball, almost runs some variation of the pack line to stop dribble penetration. Similar to attacking a 2-3 zone, outside of shooting them out of it, the key is to use spacing and ball reversals to create gaps for dribble penetration. You make the defense work. As Bobby points out, these side screens are easy to defend. You have the help side defense in place and a lot of times that screener just brings an additional defender there which just serves to congest things. This has caused us to settle for more 3 point attempts because we are not getting that same penetration.

I mentioned in early in the season that the offense was running in reverse. Instead of working it inside-out, we have been relying on hitting 3 point shots to open up the floor. That’s when the offense has looked the best. Hit a couple threes and that help defender can’t sag off as far on the shooter and that creates driving lanes for other action. The problem is that is just not a sustainable strategy. As we have seen this year, when you aren't hitting from the perimeter, the defense compacts making it that much harder to establish anything on the inside.

I know it’s easy to say that Grant just needs to get guys that fit his system, but we need to at least acknowledge that it is going to more difficult than some are making it out to be. Grant’s system is simpler than Archie’s, which means we are going rely more on individual talent than the system itself to create shots. Grant is going to need to recruit/develop guy that check off more boxes than Archie. Even looking at last year’s seniors, there’s too many holes in their games where I don’t think they would have had the same level of success in Grant’s system. It’s not going to be easy task.
BCross: You said, “...what concerns me is the abundance of NBA concepts....”. I remember when the primary reason for Don Donoher’s ouster was that Donoher played slow-down controlled offensive basketball with an emphasis on defense. Fans said that he was too old school and younger players wanted to play more up-tempo, more NBA style fast running offenses. Fans said that Donoher could not recruit top players because he played slow-down ball. So, the Fans demanded a more NBA-like offense. The athletic director went out and hired O’Brien. He brought in fast paced NBA -style offenses and look what happened.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
lol very hard longtime fan and CE80, just believe kenpom is the most objective fact based system about college basketball out there. I am not big on anecdotes and love statistical insights. Great insights like getting 26.9% offensive rebounds when we miss a shot for 240th in the nation. Every offense rebound is worth about a point. Big issue with the Dayton this year and would not have perceived it but for kenpom!
I'm just having fun. I am an engineer. A numbers guy. I like numbers. But as someone else posted, I don't need Kenpom to tell me that we are not playing good basketball now. How do we change the results so that Kenpom says we are good?
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
This is actually the number 1 head scratcher for me when I watch UD play this year. More than minutes distribution, more than offensive scheme. It seems like 75% of the shots we take are when we have no one within 10 feet of rebounding position, then, everyone who might have been close just runs the other way.

Every shot that goes up when no one is in position to rebound I say out loud "bad shot". Doesn't matter if it goes in, it's a bad shot. And I seem to say it again and again with this team.
We have 111 offensive rebounds and our opponents 115. Bad news is Josh has 45 of those, or 40%.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
BCross: You said, “...what concerns me is the abundance of NBA concepts....”. I remember when the primary reason for Don Donoher’s ouster was that Donoher played slow-down controlled offensive basketball with an emphasis on defense. Fans said that he was too old school and younger players wanted to play more up-tempo, more NBA style fast running offenses. Fans said that Donoher could not recruit top players because he played slow-down ball. So, the Fans demanded a more NBA-like offense. The athletic director went out and hired O’Brien. He brought in fast paced NBA -style offenses and look what happened.
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Big difference between the basketball then and now.

Why would players want to come here and run Archie's offense? It wasn't as fast paced as many NBA schemes yet was successful.

We aren't talking Miami Ohio offense that sets the game back 30 years. AM, BG, and AG's offense all give ample opportunity for scoring...no one is running an offense that is spread out forcing guys to make 14 passes in the half court before a shot. The argument regarding his system and a desire fur guys to want to come here to run said system aren't valid. What is valid is whether or not the team is competing for NCAA berths and wins.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
We have 111 offensive rebounds and our opponents 115. Bad news is Josh has 45 of those, or 40%.
I don't have a Kenpom stat to back it up, but it sure seems like about 100 of those offensive rebounds come from Josh & Co. rebounding their own misses.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I don't have a Kenpom stat to back it up, but it sure seems like about 100 of those offensive rebounds come from Josh & Co. rebounding their own misses.
May be true. Josh has only missed 25 two pointers(45 O rebounds) and Kostas 14 (10 O rebounds), and Landers 20 (21 O rebounds).
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:49 PM
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Is this the same team that floundered against Duquesne?

Defense looked like night and day between these two games. The D beat the Bonnie’s.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Is this the same team that floundered against Duquesne?

Defense looked like night and day between these two games. The D beat the Bonnie’s.
Same human beings? Yes. Same players? Not entirely. Landers was a beast tonight, in every phase of the game. Kostas kept his mouth shut (for the most part) and filled the role we needed him to fill. Darrell was will power personified. And the rest of the team, for the most part, followed suit. This team grew up by about 10 games tonight.

Now, which team will show up on Saturday against UMass? Who knows? We’re still one of the least experienced teams in NCAA D-I. But now, they have a blueprint for how they can beat a really good team.
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
May be true. Josh has only missed 25 two pointers(45 O rebounds) and Kostas 14 (10 O rebounds), and Landers 20 (21 O rebounds).
Last night: 4 offensive rebounds. That's impressive futility in that one aspect of the game (not the total effort).
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Landers was a beast tonight, in every phase of the game.
At the end of the game when we couldn't get a defensive rebound, it was Landers' guy every time that was getting it. About 4 times in 6 trips. But overall very good game.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
At the end of the game when we couldn't get a defensive rebound, it was Landers' guy every time that was getting it. About 4 times in 6 trips. But overall very good game.
I didn't notice that because under the 1 minute mark, in 24 seconds, Crutcher was responsible for an -8 point swing in the score----didn't effectively guard two 3pointers, missed 2 freethrows badly, had one careless turnover, and 1 personal foul.

I think the point is we can watch these young players fundamentally melt down on occasion and STILL beat a good opponent. Think how good we could be by simply taking care of the simplest of fundamental basketball mistakes.

We absorbed 18 turnovers by shooting free throws at a torrid pace, blocking 7 shots, and snagging 7 steals--and this wasn't Akron we were playing.

When viewed as a part of the whole body of work, Lander's misgivings don't even register.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Last night: 4 offensive rebounds. That's impressive futility in that one aspect of the game (not the total effort).
And those 4 offensive rebounds came in the first ten minutes, so we had zero in the last 30 minutes. That being said we only have two potential rebounders in Josh and Kostas, and if you shoot over 50%, you do not have as many opportunities. I will take the excellent defense over the offensive rebounds, because we cannot have it all this year, and this is team without much size, and no true center.

A bigger problem last night is that we gave up 17 offensive rebounds. Not a problem if we shoot lights out, like last night. I'll take it twice on Sunday's.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
I didn't notice that because under the 1 minute mark, in 24 seconds, Crutcher was responsible for an -8 point swing in the score----didn't effectively guard two 3pointers, missed 2 freethrows badly, had one careless turnover, and 1 personal foul.

I think the point is we can watch these young players fundamentally melt down on occasion and STILL beat a good opponent. Think how good we could be by simply taking care of the simplest of fundamental basketball mistakes.

We absorbed 18 turnovers by shooting free throws at a torrid pace, blocking 7 shots, and snagging 7 steals--and this wasn't Akron we were playing.

When viewed as a part of the whole body of work, Lander's misgivings don't even register.
If you look at the game log starting at about the 6:44 mark, Trey had several key breakdowns that were mental. 3 offensive rebounds that were his fault and a couple other things. I'm simply saying he played an overall good game but got lax at the end and almost cost us.
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  #48  
Old 01-04-2018, 11:12 AM
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With a young inexperience team, there is always room for improvement. Look at the turnover numbers too. Rebounding and turnovers till need a lot of work.

Even with breakdowns, that had to be UDs best defensive effort all year.

The Bonnies made a valiant charge in the second half. They were much more aggressive, so that forced some UD mistakes. The offense was a bit stagnant in the second half, but...

The Bonnies gambled a lot and UD took advantage of the gambles. They did what it took to win the game.
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