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View Poll Results: Who blew it tonite at GW?
Sir Kendall's FTs 5 11.11%
Cunningham's shooting 0 0%
Schoochie's turnovers 22 48.89%
KDavis' shooting 2 4.44%
DDavis pretty much nothing... 1 2.22%
Archie...another horrible 1st half of coaching... 15 33.33%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-04-2017, 10:18 PM
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Golden Trap Game loss at GW

I royally saw this coming...too much emotion lost after the VCU win...$hit happens. Time to regroup and win the A10 Tourney!

In the mean time...you know what to do..
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:27 PM
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Why is Charles Cooke not on this list because he easily gets my vote. And replace Baby D with him as he was hurt and on the bench tonight. You didn't watch did you?
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:30 PM
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I can't remember a worse game by Scooch. Horrible effort by him in my opinion.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Why is Charles Cooke not on this list because he easily gets my vote. And replace Baby D with him as he was hurt and on the bench tonight. You didn't watch did you?
Fitting that Charles wasn't on this list. He was just as invisible in the poll as he was in the game.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by redbengal View Post
Fitting that Charles wasn't on this list. He was just as invisible in the poll as he was in the game.
Except he was very visible when he got the ball in his hands. Stopped the offense, waited about 4 seconds, then drove into traffic getting to the basket without the ball.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:43 PM
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Is CC not on the list becuase it is such a given? His worst game.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:44 PM
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Voted Scoochie only because Charles wasn't an option.

Can't blame guys who dove for loose balls (Josh, Kendall), or to intercept passes (Kyle). Can't blame a guy who got his bell rung so bad he couldn't return (Darryl). Won't blame the coach, because I'm sure his game plan didn't involve letting GW score at will in the first half. No, this one falls squarely on the shoulders of 2 of our Senior leaders, Scoochie and Charles. And, again, since Charles wasn't an option...

To those players who stepped-up: thank you. To those who didn't: redeem yourself in Pittsburgh. Every game from now on could be your last game this year. Make it count.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:47 PM
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Scoochie, Charles and Kyle shared the limelight, now they have to share the defeat. None of them played like seniors tonight.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:49 PM
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Charles was way too tired and over-tried. When CC is under pressure he plays great. When he feels like he MUST single handedly carry the team, he plays his worst...unfortunately.

Scootchie...who the heck knows what was in his head tonight? These things happen.

On a positive note: it was refreshing to see that nobody on the boards blamed the refs for the loss.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Scoochie, Charles and Kyle shared the limelight, now they have to share the defeat. None of them played like seniors tonight.
Kyle had a tough shooting night but had 7 assists, 2 steals, one turnover. He wasn't the reason we lost.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Kyle had a tough shooting night but had 7 assists, 2 steals, one turnover. He wasn't the reason we lost.
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Agree. And yes Scoochie wasn't Scoochie tonight. That performance would normally get him screw-up of the game. But not tonight. Charles owns that one without a debate.

On a positive not though, I actually liked seeing Crosby come into the game, it was kind of a relief.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:01 PM
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There was no one player who was responsible for this loss for everyone throwing around blame. It also had nothing to do with the offense, FTs, or turnovers. The entire blame is on the lack of effort by everyone on defense. Anytime UD scores 81 points that is more than enough to win. Giving up 50 in that first half was inexcusable.

The only blame I'll place on an individual goes to Archie. Anytime this team has been down by large deficits he seems to wait too long to use a full court press. He waited all the way until the 1:09 mark tonight. What would it have hurt to try it at the 4 or 5 minute mark? This unwillingness to make a defensive adjustment in this situation is one of the only things I do not like about Archie's coaching style.
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  #13  
Old 03-04-2017, 11:02 PM
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Rollo, it was a team loss but I thought Cooke's performance was the slightly bigger reason the team lost. Just a no-show performance. I agree with you. This loss makes nary a mark and in my opinion will help the team going forward. Especially finishing at the rim and cleaning up the free throws.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:06 PM
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There was certainly lots of blame to go around tonight but the two seniors, Scoochie and Cooke, need to be the ones to overcome this type of night and neither did. Scoochie in particular has always found a way, even on his worst nights, to come through with big plays and I kept waiting for it tonight but unfortunately it never happened.

It's behind us now so on to the A10 tourney.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:12 PM
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Xeyrius Williams may be one of the best wings to ever come out of Dayton when it's all said and done. I can just see the anticipation in the young man's eyes. He knows he's going to be good. I love his confidence. It is infectious. He's going to be a great Flyer.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Xeyrius Williams may be one of the best wings to ever come out of Dayton when it's all said and done. I can just see the anticipation in the young man's eyes. He knows he'said going to be good. I love his confidence. It is infectious. He's going to be a great Flyer.
Totally agree, although if you saw my posts from last year you wouldn't think so. He is so confident right now and you could just see it in him tonight that he was telling the guys to get him the ball and he would carry them. I love that attitude!
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:15 PM
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:20 PM
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A great game to get out of our system! Laid an egg tonight- now on to the A10T and NCAAT where you just know this nonsense will not be repeated...
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Xeyrius Williams may be one of the best wings to ever come out of Dayton when it's all said and done. I can just see the anticipation in the young man's eyes. He knows he's going to be good. I love his confidence. It is infectious. He's going to be a great Flyer.
Heard an interview last year that X did with Nancy Wilson, who handles the pregame show for WHIO-AM. Was VERY impressed with the way he spoke and comported himself during the interview. He definitely has a strong "light bulb", and I'm very happy to see him as a Flyer. Looking forward to his next 2 years, as much as I've enjoyed this past year.

Go X-Man! Go Flyers! Win this thang!
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:40 PM
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Does anybody put anybody on their butt anymore when they are hitting everything, like 9 for 9? Guess not, don't want to make anyone uncomfortable or pi** them off.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:44 PM
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XW is a special talent- he simply stood out with his physical skills the lone time I saw him play here in the 'Burgh against Duq. He more than any one else makes me a bit optimistic for next year's team- though I can see it being a growth year.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:45 PM
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Please amend Rollo, Cooke had his 3rd worst offensive game as a Flyer (according to kenpom, only @Umass 2017 loss and @SLU 2016 OT were worse). Scoochie had a much better game than Cooke.

Voted Archie with no Cooke option.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:48 PM
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I gave it to Scoochie. He had a poor night and frankly I thought he gave a poor effort...one of his worst of the season. Head totally not in the game...very sloppy passing. Charles' game was equally dismal. He tried to do way too much and turned the ball over in critical situations. I agree with Smitty 10. I thought John Crosby played much better than Scoochie tonight.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:00 AM
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According to kenpom, offensive ratings for GW game and season. For me., the objective facts clearly point to Cooke. Also indicate Crosby had a better offensive game than Scoochie.

Cooke 68 versus 109 for season or -41 delta
Scoochie 99 versus 113 for season or -14 delta
Crosby 104 versus 79 for season or +25
X 186 versus 119 for season or +67
Pollard 125 versus 107 for season or +18
Cunningham 88 versus 115 for season or -27

Kyle season offensive rating is 125 for 50th best in nation; X is 119 for 167th best in nation; Josh is 115 but has not played enough for national rating; Scoochie 113 for #447 nationally' Cooke at 109; Pollard at 108.

Cooke & Pollard major contributors (24-28% of possessions used); Scoochie, Sam, and Josh significant contributors (20-24% possessions used); Mikesell, X, and Crosby role players (16-20% possessions used); and Kyle and Darrell limited roles (12-16% of posssessios used); Landers "benchwarmers" used in fewer than 10% of possessions.

Btw, the $19.99 I spend for a year kenpom subscription is the best money I spend all year.

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Old 03-05-2017, 12:16 AM
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Five Boys and a stranger multiple choice theory; Ryan Miller you earned my vote...no questions asked!

Hodge-Podge offense with zero observable goals or objectives. Unfortunately, it's presence had been seen and felt in all loses and several UD victories this season.

It's as if there is still a modest amount Gregory Fungal left in the bowels of the program.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:56 AM
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Offense scored 1.12 points per possession versus GW, Dayton averaging 112.6 points per possession for the season which is 47th best in nation.

Issue was mainly defense. Gave up 1.21 points per possession which was UD's worst game by far. 2nd worst was Nebraska at 1.13 and @ VCU at 1.12. Instead of playing worst defensive game of season, if Flyers play 3rd worst, they tie the game and force OT.

This was GW's second best offensive game of the year. Best was beating #337 Howard and scoring 1.22 points per possession. GW averages 108.9 points per possession. Dayton 3rd best defensive team they have played.

GW shoots 37% from 3 which is season average and they lose by 3. Btw, Dayton for the season has great 3 defense allowing on;y 32% for the year.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:35 AM
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So do we have our first write-in winner in the history of Royal Golden Polls? It was difficult for me to pick just one MVP Wednesday evening. But I went with Charles partly because he was so fired up and passionate that night. Tonight none of the fire and passion was there at all. By the time he tried to make a difference it just wouldn't have, well... made any difference.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Rollo, it was a team loss but I thought Cooke's performance was the slightly bigger reason the team lost. Just a no-show performance. I agree with you. This loss makes nary a mark and in my opinion will help the team going forward. Especially finishing at the rim and cleaning up the free throws.
My bad on Cooke! I was reffing I didn't get to the game (radio) until late 2nd half...when I got home I pulled up a box score and started typing the poll. From the box score, it didn't appear Cooke had as bad a game as you all are saying...as least comparatively.

Royal mistake! I guess we'll have to count write-in votes! UGH!
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:11 AM
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I write in "All of the above."
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:14 AM
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Cooke mailed it in.
Mikesell...don't even know what to say...he plays on about a 7 second delay and can't guard his own shadow.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:21 AM
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I was only able to watch bits and pieces, and I am glad I wasn't able to watch the whole bit.

Observations from what I did see....

When this team is off, they are way off. Perimeter D was atrocious and no one could guard the perimeter. If I'm Archie and no one wants to play D...I'll have Bonsu off the f'n bench before the starters get another minute if they don't want to defend and rebound.

The zone pushed our offense way too far from the bucket, forcing the inefficient offense. When UD passed the ball early on, they were able to get some buckets from Pollard in the paint. When we dicked around on the perimeter with the ball, we ended up with low percentage shots. You can't rely on a so-so perimeter shooting team to stay in a game, on the road, by jacking up corner 3's.

To beat UD you force their hand. You force them to run half-court offense and force everything high. You force them to run their offense 10 feet north of where UD wants to be. Make someone get hot from the perimeter to beat you.

Opponents on offense need to be patient as it leads to being efficient. No one wanted to play D in the first half. UD doesn't get deflections and steals...they are in a street fight. They get deflections...they are world beaters.

Senior leadership did not show up last night. I saw more lazy first passes to the wing and back to the point than I have seen in a long time. This team absolutely **** the bed last night and it will be a short trip to ****burg unless they unscrew themselves.

Sunday better not be an off day...and I am surprised if practice didn't start at 0200 when they got off the plane.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
GW shoots 37% from 3 which is season average and they lose by 3.
Amazing stat.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:50 AM
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I don't care what they did in 2nd half

GOOD teams can win a regular season championship.

#GREATTEAMS do not ... I repeat DO NOT let last nite happen!
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
GOOD teams can win a regular season championship.

#GREATTEAMS do not ... I repeat DO NOT let last nite happen!
Then there are no "great" teams in college bball since they all have at least one loss.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
I was only able to watch bits and pieces, and I am glad I wasn't able to watch the whole bit.

Observations from what I did see....

When this team is off, they are way off. Perimeter D was atrocious and no one could guard the perimeter. If I'm Archie and no one wants to play D...I'll have Bonsu off the f'n bench before the starters get another minute if they don't want to defend and rebound.

The zone pushed our offense way too far from the bucket, forcing the inefficient offense. When UD passed the ball early on, they were able to get some buckets from Pollard in the paint. When we dicked around on the perimeter with the ball, we ended up with low percentage shots. You can't rely on a so-so perimeter shooting team to stay in a game, on the road, by jacking up corner 3's.

To beat UD you force their hand. You force them to run half-court offense and force everything high. You force them to run their offense 10 feet north of where UD wants to be. Make someone get hot from the perimeter to beat you.

Opponents on offense need to be patient as it leads to being efficient. No one wanted to play D in the first half. UD doesn't get deflections and steals...they are in a street fight. They get deflections...they are world beaters.

Senior leadership did not show up last night. I saw more lazy first passes to the wing and back to the point than I have seen in a long time. This team absolutely **** the bed last night and it will be a short trip to ****burg unless they unscrew themselves.

Sunday better not be an off day...and I am surprised if practice didn't start at 0200 when they got off the plane.
So many things I agree with starting with at half time I was saying...just play the walk-ones in the second half. It can't be worse. And would send a huge message to this team. I will add that as much as we didn't play defense in the fist half, GW was shooting lights out. You don't shoot like that in warm ups with no one guarding you. They were in an unreal hot shooting grove, and it wasn't just one guy. All the more reason we needed to match that grove with our best defense and we just rolled over and couldn't get a stop in the first half.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:27 AM
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I only saw the second half (listened to Larry & Bucky in the first half b/c I had to work). Here's what I saw out of Charles, which is why he'd have gotten my write-in vote:
-Lazy pass from the high right wing back to the point. Was intercepted and taken in for an uncontested dunk.
-Lazy entry pass from the left wing to the post. Was also intercepted, leading to a tie-up and GW ball on the possession arrow.
-A drive on the left baseline that he should have either dunked or kissed off the glass on the near side. Instead, he tried a "circus shot" reverse layin, that only drew glass & iron.

The first 2 alone were lost opportunities that led to GW buckets, so the swing was definitely 4 points, and with the way X was lobbing 3-bombs at that point in the game, the swing could have been as much as 10 points. Thus, my (unofficial) write-in for Charles with a retraction of the vote for Scoochie.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:53 AM
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Voted Archie. It was his responsibility to adjust. Didn't adjust to Cavenaugh when he was killing us. Should have double teamed if that's what it took. Didn't adjust to the zone. If Schoochie doesn't have it, adjust. And he didn't adjust to press until it was too late...again.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Voted Archie. It was his responsibility to adjust. Didn't adjust to Cavenaugh when he was killing us. Should have double teamed if that's what it took. Didn't adjust to the zone. If Schoochie doesn't have it, adjust. And he didn't adjust to press until it was too late...again.
I put it on AM too...but that was because it was a failure on the team and not one individual player.

Cavanaugh didn't need double teamed...he needed to be guarded properly off screens and flares. They played the screen well and a D1 player ought to be able to figure out out defensively. How many times did we foul perimeter shooters? Too many. How many lazy passes did we have against the zone that were converted into transition buckets? Too many and that was on the laziness of the players. How many free throws did we miss? Too many. How many times did we not move the ball against the zone by utilizing the pass? Too many.

Sorry...adjustments don't win that game. Players playing with a fire in their belly and not being content with the ring they already earned is what wins that game and the rest from here on out.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:19 AM
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I abstain. They all sucked.

That said, sh!t happens and we will rebound. We came off a monster high, played like crap, walked into a hornets nest of Senior Night and an absurd half of shooting....and still almost won.

We are still the True Team, mentally tough and a winner.

#RoadtoPhoenix
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I only saw the second half (listened to Larry & Bucky in the first half b/c I had to work). Here's what I saw out of Charles, which is why he'd have gotten my write-in vote:
-Lazy pass from the high right wing back to the point. Was intercepted and taken in for an uncontested dunk.
-Lazy entry pass from the left wing to the post. Was also intercepted, leading to a tie-up and GW ball on the possession arrow.
-A drive on the left baseline that he should have either dunked or kissed off the glass on the near side. Instead, he tried a "circus shot" reverse layin, that only drew glass & iron.

The first 2 alone were lost opportunities that led to GW buckets, so the swing was definitely 4 points, and with the way X was lobbing 3-bombs at that point in the game, the swing could have been as much as 10 points. Thus, my (unofficial) write-in for Charles with a retraction of the vote for Scoochie.
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I am not picking on you, because there are many that said Cooke, but EVERYONE was doing all these things last night. Not just Cooke. Some of you seem to only look for Cooke to make mistakes so you can quickly say I told you so about him.

All of Scooch's TO's were unforced lazy passes or unforced traveling. He and Cooke both had 4 TO's and his were just as crucial. They talked at length about a play where they wondered what Scooch was thinking when he let a guy run right by him for a rebound put back that turned into an and 1. There is a reason he sat for a long stretch in the first half. He was not the leader we expect from him.

While Pollard was the only person to really keep us in the game, his FT's killed us. That is lack of focus. He also had a play in the second half where he went for this ridiculous layup attempt when all he had to do was take one more step and go up strong it's and easy layup.

KD, while I do not question his effort, he missed quite a few layups that he normally makes. He had 1 layup in the second half from the right side of the basket he went up with his left hand and completely blew it. Effort was there from KD, but focus was not.

Mikesell, in my opinion, played a typical Mikesell game. I am not nearly as high on him as many here. I think he looks lost on defense much of the time. He is too slow or too weak to be playing a lot of minutes. I know many expect him to be a great player going forward, but I just do not see it. I think his absolute ceiling is Jimmy Binnie.

The only players that showed up last night were Crosby, Cunningham, and X. 3 sophomores. I know some would say Pollard, and I am on the fence about him for including him in this group, but he lacked some focus at crucial times.

As for Archie, he is a great coach and I do not want anyone else leading the Flyers. But he has 3 flaws that continue to hurt us.

1) Slow Starts- This is far from our first game where we started slow, and this in not just an issue this year. It has been an issue a few of the years he has been here.

2) Too Late To Try and Extend The Game- This was mentioned above, he waits entirely too late to try and extend the game. @UMass, @VCU, and last night, waited very late to change things up and didn't give us enough time to make a run. Now, against Davidson and URI he started earlier and look what happened. We extend the game enough to get us the lead or get us to overtime. Against NW and St. Mary's it was most of the 2nd half where we sped the game up and played to extend the game and we almost came back from HUGE deficits to win those games. I know it is not going to work every time, but in the 2 comebacks against Davidson and URI, you could see changes around the under 4 TO. In the losses he waited until under 2 min left. The extra 1-2 minutes is huge.

3) Takes The Foot Off The Gas Too Soon- This hasn't cost us a game yet, but it's come close a few times. He gets super conservative midway through the second half and lets teams get back into games. This definitely cost BG games here as well. VCU, GMU, and the Bonnies, are all games when in my opinion we let off the gas too early. All of these games we had 10+ point leads and in GMU's case 20+ and all of them were interesting at the end. All 3 games we started trying to eat clock before the under 8 TO. My best friend is a DI assistant coach, and he is always preaching that you play hard until the under 4 TO. If it's a 20 point lead with 6min left, you try and get it to 30 by the under 4, and then you eat clock. It's like the prevent defense in football. You know the other team is going to score when you see teams play prevent.

Sorry for the long post. This is not a hot take or a sky is falling post. Just some observations that I had. I still feel great about this team and the seniors even though they did not play their best last night. I am definitely looking forward to seeing them play in Pittsburgh this week. I will be making the long drive to see tournament.

Go Flyers!

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Old 03-05-2017, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
GOOD teams can win a regular season championship.

#GREATTEAMS do not ... I repeat DO NOT let last nite happen!
Seriously? Holy smokes!
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
GOOD teams can win a regular season championship.

#GREATTEAMS do not ... I repeat DO NOT let last nite happen!
Have you lived under a rock for the last few seasons? Don't know how you define great and just good, but IMO this is a great team that did some things to ensure a letdown.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I am not picking on you, because there are many that said Cooke, but EVERYONE was doing all these things last night. Not just Cooke. Some of you seem to only look for Cooke to make mistakes so you can quickly say I told you so about him.
Everything that m21eagle45 typed in his entire post above was exactly what I wanted to type but was too lazy to. Great post.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
There was no one player who was responsible for this loss for everyone throwing around blame. It also had nothing to do with the offense, FTs, or turnovers. The entire blame is on the lack of effort by everyone on defense. Anytime UD scores 81 points that is more than enough to win. Giving up 50 in that first half was inexcusable.

The only blame I'll place on an individual goes to Archie. Anytime this team has been down by large deficits he seems to wait too long to use a full court press. He waited all the way until the 1:09 mark tonight. What would it have hurt to try it at the 4 or 5 minute mark? This unwillingness to make a defensive adjustment in this situation is one of the only things I do not like about Archie's coaching style.
I totally agree with this. In nearly all our (comeback) losses, it seems he waits too long to adjust and to press.

Also in the VCU win, it seems had we gone zone when Cox was scoring at will, we could have slowed them down. I know Archie doesn't play zone, but last time I checked, zones are legal. Coach Miller knows about a million times as much about basketball and his team than me, but you don't have to know too much to know our defense was nearly helpless against their inside game. VCU cannot shoot from outside the paint.

Even if they haven't practiced a zone (again I don't know why we write off a valuable tool like that) It seems we could've done better with it.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:16 PM
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There are certain things you know going into certain games and you would think these things would be addressed. Those things are that Mo Aley Cox, TJ Cline, Tyler Cavanaugh and Payton Aldridge are going to make our chances of success more difficult if we don't find a way to neutralize them right off the bat. With Davidson it's tougher as they have a 2nd player to make our lives miserable. But when it comes to teams like SBU we seem to have no problem neutralizing their guards. But thankfully most of these teams are either guard strong on post strong and not both so AM needs to find different defensive game plan for both situations.
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