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  #1  
Old 03-17-2015, 07:49 AM
flybye flybye is offline
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The Big East

I was in Brooklyn and also went to the Butler /Xavier game at the Garden. The Big time feel of the Big East was evident vs the A10. Without the VCU crowd and our group the Barclay would have been empty. There is No doubt that the Big East as you see form the seeding is a big time conference and will have the advantage over the A10 in the selection room. So Dayton will continue to work hard to get in. As far as OCC next years Orland Classic will give us opportunities to get that Big win, but we do have to think out of the box and find other Big games. I suggest that Archie ask Sean for a game. Be great to travel to Arizona in December and Arizona has nothing really to lose . Its ok that they play each other, the family will survive and it would be HUGE BOOST for the Dayton program. I would also offer Gonzaga a 2 and 1. The next step foe Archie is to win an A10 title. It will be his 5th year and he has not won the conference or the tourney.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:25 AM
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Although we have had good teams lately but we have not won the conference nor the tourney, what makes anyone think we would have done better in the Big East? I heartily and strongly agree that we should boost our SOS by scheduling (and winning) better OCC games. The league should also push other teams to strengthen their OCC games making the A10 overall a stronger league. Schedule games with very good smaller conference schools that are also looking to increase their SOS.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:32 AM
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Methinks you are trolling.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:33 AM
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The only thing UD needs to do is keep winning and keep making the tourney every year. The rest will take care of itself. I would be disappointed if we make any proactive moves to join that conference.

THEY DON'T DESERVE US.

WE ARE BETTER THAN THEM.
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  #5  
Old 03-17-2015, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
Although we have had good teams lately but we have not won the conference nor the tourney, what makes anyone think we would have done better in the Big East? I heartily and strongly agree that we should boost our SOS by scheduling (and winning) better OCC games. The league should also push other teams to strengthen their OCC games making the A10 overall a stronger league. Schedule games with very good smaller conference schools that are also looking to increase their SOS.
Well for one, we apparently could've lost 13 games and still been EASILY in the field.
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
The only thing UD needs to do is keep winning and keep making the tourney every year. The rest will take care of itself.
Yeah, that is what I was thinking too...Archie is here, Elite 8, etc., everything will take care of itself now and fall into place...but then the SOS got significantly worse, and we barely squeaked into the tourney. I don't know what happened to cause that.

Last edited by ud2; 03-17-2015 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:31 PM
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yeah, that is what I was thinking too...Archie is here, Elite 8, etc., everything will take care of itself now and fall into place...but then the SOS got significantly worse, and we barely squeaked into the tourney. I don't know what happened to cause that.
Believe 10 games with DUQ, SBU, LAS, SLU, and Fordham was a factor
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Believe 10 games with DUQ, SBU, LAS, SLU, and Fordham was a factor
Exactly. Even taking out the times we played them, our 5 "2xs games" were a combined 29-51 against the rest of the A-10 and only SBU had an overall winning conference record.

If URI, VCU, Richmond, GW, and UMass were our 2xs, then our non-conf would not have mattered near as much.
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2015, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Believe 10 games with DUQ, SBU, LAS, SLU, and Fordham was a factor
LOL. I was thinking the same thing and exactly why I don't like the A10. There are too many risks for losing to those teams. I know UD is stuck in the A10 and I'm sure maybe some of those conference losses may have been wins with a full roster but I'm proud of where they are now and where the program is headed. The A10 struggled to beat Dayton with a 7 man team so it will be interesting to see what happens with a full roster.

Overall, I don't have a problem with UD's seeding but I'm not sure I understand why a bubble team would enter the tournament as an 11 seed versus a 14 or higher. Oh well, I'm sure the A10 will put more pressure on all those teams mentioned above to improve their scheduling and help boost the conference SOS, RPI's and all those other important factors for increasing the chances of getting into the NCAA.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:23 PM
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However big-time it may have felt inside MSG, it was enjoyed by 4x fewer people on TV than the A10 Final. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around, does it....
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:51 PM
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I have Uverse. AT&T is currently in a fight with Fox so none of the games were on, they showed darts on FS1 instead.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:52 PM
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I hear what your saying... but let there be no doubt that financially and future the Big East is the better product. let me make it real simple...home games.. Nova/Butler/X/Georgetown etc would be a boom for the school and get many more alumni involved. Wabler and Curran all over it and doing what they can. I believe we will it happens in less than 24 mos... keep this post.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:55 PM
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We haven't outgrown the A-10. Show me some crowns. Pfffft, we've had a couple years of success so people are showing how entitled some of this fan base can be. If UD gets the invite it will be welcome but not fully deserving. Just because Creighton got in people start comparing us to Creighton. We are Dayton and we have not outgrown the A-10. People come down off your high horse.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:09 PM
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Disagree, Its that kinda of thinking that Curran is fighting thru. We now have the coach and the performance. We deserve it and we will get it. Forbes has us listed as the 26th most profitable program in the country. Only X and Marquette in the Big East are larger. Money talks...we deserve it.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
However big-time it may have felt inside MSG, it was enjoyed by 4x fewer people on TV than the A10 Final. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around, does it....
Conference Championship TV Ratings

Saturday
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:12 PM
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Bingo and Dayton was the 4th largest viewing market that nite... will help us get in.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:24 PM
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Dude you need to put a cap on those Monsters you're drinking..
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Forbes has us listed as the 26th most profitable program in the country. Only X and Marquette in the Big East are larger. Money talks...we deserve it.
The only reason X is more profitable is because they have more NCAA appearances, Dayton has a bigger fan base and arena.

The UD fans are much, much louder than the X fans, the UD fans also travel to away/tournament games much, much better than the X fans.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:31 PM
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the question to ask is:

"Is there a current conference member that would want to keep a school out?

If the answer to that is yes then you are not getting an invite. The discussion never gets further than that, none of the other stuff matters.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yeah, that is what I was thinking too...Archie is here, Elite 8, etc., everything will take care of itself now and fall into place...but then the SOS got significantly worse, and we barely squeaked into the tourney. I don't know what happened to cause that.
I don't know why you are so clueless as to why our SOS was worse this year than last year (and keep harping on it over and over). It's very simple. Our exempt tourney games this year were not nearly as strong as the ones last year (we have no control over that) and our A-10 schedule was weak (we have no control over that). Our non-con SOS wasn't bad but the A-10 dragged us down this year. That will change, and the exempt tourney next year will be much better. Six of our 12 non-conference games were against "power" teams, four of which were pretty good. I don't know how we could do much better than that. A couple of them were weak, however, which is the luck of the draw. We had home-and-homes with three "power" teams, two of which were very good. We played 16 home games and 14 road/neutral games. I can't believe you really want to play more road/neutral games than home games. If we played more tough road games and lost them then the committee could simply say we lost too many games, unless, of course, we were "gaining steam" down the stretch. The committee will do whatever the hell it wants to do and then justify it anyway they can. They proved that this year with Indiana, UCLA, and Texas.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:48 PM
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I remember when the Big East used to be cool, then all the good teams left for the ACC.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:52 PM
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It's tough to campaign for leaving the A10 without winning championships. Period. I'm not suggesting that we would be the George Mason of the Big East, but we shouldn't stop the positive momentum we've gained the last couple of years. That said, it could be a different story after we see how the next 4 recruiting classes perform. That will give us a better idea of where the program is heading. It seems to blow by many here, but this is the first time we've gone to consecutive NCAA tourneys in 30 years. Let's ride the current and see what the view is in 5 years.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:53 PM
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Flyer 5... the monsters have served me well. I take the same ones that Archie and Curran take... they have Big dreams also.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:55 PM
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At this point, I think the best future is in the Big East if we were to get an invitation.

However, I think we are best served where we are for a few more years. If we are in the tournament for 4 or 5 times in a relatively short period of time, the players that are early on in HS or Middle School will come up viewing us a perennial tournament team.

That puts us in the best position to compete in the Big East sometime in the future. For now, I would rather be winning the A10 regular season and/or conference tournament and make a couple runs in the dance.

Our SOS is likely to fluctuate year to year, but as long as we continue to play in good exempt tournaments and finish at or near the top of the conference, most years it will not be an issue. I realize it did this year. There were reasons why the SOS wasn't quite as good this year and it had an impact. I also can't help thinking that if records were exactly the same and the names Penn State and Arizona State were substituted for Indiana and UCLA on the bubble, the storyline would be different we wouldn't be obsessing with the SOS.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
It seems to blow by many here, but this is the first time we've gone to consecutive NCAA tourneys in 30 years. Let's ride the current and see what the view is in 5 years.
I guess you were in a coma in 2003 and 2004.
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I don't know why you are so clueless as to why our SOS was worse this year than last year (and keep harping on it over and over). It's very simple. Our exempt tourney games this year were not nearly as strong as the ones last year (we have no control over that) and our A-10 schedule was weak (we have no control over that). Our non-con SOS wasn't bad but the A-10 dragged us down this year. That will change, and the exempt tourney next year will be much better. Six of our 12 non-conference games were against "power" teams, four of which were pretty good. I don't know how we could do much better than that. A couple of them were weak, however, which is the luck of the draw. We had home-and-homes with three "power" teams, two of which were very good. We played 16 home games and 14 road/neutral games. I can't believe you really want to play more road/neutral games than home games. If we played more tough road games and lost them then the committee could simply say we lost too many games, unless, of course, we were "gaining steam" down the stretch. The committee will do whatever the hell it wants to do and then justify it anyway they can. They proved that this year with Indiana, UCLA, and Texas.
I don't appreciate the clueless insult you jerk. I don't insult you, I don't see why you feel the need to insult me.

No, the non-con SOS was not good IMO, it was only 6th best in the A10, I don't consider that to be good, it should be top 3 in the A10.

I counted UD having played 16 home games, 11 road games, and 3 neutral games. I don't consider a neutral game to be a road game, everybody plays neutral games these days.

I don't know why you want to stick with a scheduling model that very nearly cost UD an at large bid this year.

And you didn't answer my questions from the other thread about why 8 other A10 teams had a better SOS than UD did this year, or about why UD had only the 6th best OOC A10 SOS this year.

That's embarrassing IMO.

I took the time to answer your questions in the other thread, now how about you return the favor and answer my questions.

Indiana, Texas, and UCLA all had solid SOS's, I'm sure that had something to do with it. As far as whether those 3 should have gotten it, I really don't know. I think Temple and Colorado State should have been in.
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:03 PM
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Yeah, I forgot about '03 and '04. Still, the point stands that we haven't established consistency. We're not viewed as a consistent NCAA team. That still needs to change. It will lead to improved recruiting and scheduling. As it is, we had a lousy SOS this year. You have to couple the dismissal of 2 players, a player being unavailable due to concussions, a player being ineligible and a player never seeing the court with this year's results. Despite all of that, we're still in the tourney. If we can overcome all of this in a down year for our SOS, we have a great shot at future tourneys. Continue the trend then consider what to do with an invitation that has not been extended.
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:28 PM
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I don't see any argument for A10 as a venue for the program's growth. The conference dynamics as cards just got shuffled and dealt.

A10 top tier programs left us. We hang our hats on the socon newcomer and Colonial add on. WTF does that tell you? True, we did not rise above those, and if you want to question OUR value go ahead.

But Dayton desperately needs space to grow into. We have too many mediocre entities in too large of a conference with no elite chances to bolster a resume.
And our real value and reputation as a basketball 'power' works against us because the more elite we want have the brains to see we are a no win offering. We gamble the whole season now on an early tournament where if we go 1-2 instead of 2-1 we are already in BIG trouble. THAT'S what?
Yes, A10 has obvious young talent that will make for better programs. Those are programs good enough to give unaffordable losses unless you are great. AND if you ARE great, you probably don't maximize yourself in the A10.

I am not positing other than to support flybye's opinion; it is plenty reasonable to me.
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:52 PM
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With scheduling, the committee and recruits, perception is huge. The Big East is perceived as better and the names are more recognizable. Look what it did for Xavier this seeding, and for their recruiting last year. Will the A10 ever have a one or two seed? Will the bottom feeders ever pull their programs up? No and no. Our perception is mid-major and our SOS will never be great.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:10 PM
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WTF Seriously?

Someone said the Red Out at the game tomorrow thread was the most useless. This is.

If UD gets an invite to the Big East they are going. Since they haven't received it, they play in the A10 and make the best of it.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
I hear what your saying... but let there be no doubt that financially and future the Big East is the better product. let me make it real simple...home games.. Nova/Butler/X/Georgetown etc would be a boom for the school and get many more alumni involved. Wabler and Curran all over it and doing what they can. I believe we will it happens in less than 24 mos... keep this post.
I agree with this and I'll add I think we have to get it done to keep Archie for more than a couple more years.

I also wonder why we haven't scheduled Big East teams for some of our OOC. And I'm not thinking X -- lots of other options.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Will the A10 ever have a one or two seed? Will the bottom feeders ever pull their programs up? No and no. Our perception is mid-major and our SOS will never be great.
UMass and St. Joe's were both 1 seeds out of the A10.
Gonzaga has been #1 and #2 seeds coming out of the WCC.
Wichita State was #1 last year coming out of the MVC.
Those seeds happen by winning games. Period.
Why can't UD do it?
It has happened and can happen even with bottom feeders. Every conference has them.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
WTF Seriously?.....
I liked the San Diego State thread the best of any for killing time here. SO WTF, seriously (or not). I am actually trying to figure how flybye gets so many red blocks. Nothing written here in this time frame before the NCAA games is anything more than drivel (or is it dribble?)
I don't understand those who hate X so much, that want us to replace them as the ruler of a watered down territory. Oh oh --run for cover forego.
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:33 PM
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I'll rethink the new-look A10 the first year we are not invited to the Big Dance. This year we were nearly out only because the selection committee was smoking crack. That is being acknowledged by a lot of impartial college basketball observers.
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Old 03-18-2015, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
I hear what your saying... but let there be no doubt that financially and future the Big East is the better product. let me make it real simple...home games.. Nova/Butler/X/Georgetown etc would be a boom for the school and get many more alumni involved. Wabler and Curran all over it and doing what they can. I believe we will it happens in less than 24 mos... keep this post.
All things being equal, UD will make more money in the A10 this year than X makes in the big east. I really don't understand your obsession with that conference. If I was AD, my focus right now would be on winning in the A10 and being successful in the Big Dance. If we do this, the big east will need us far more than we need them. That in fact is the reality now, but the clouds are obscuring their view of reality.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I also wonder why we haven't scheduled Big East teams for some of our OOC. And I'm not thinking X -- lots of other options.
I can answer this. They have no interest in playing us. There is a reason Notre Dame, DePaul, and Marquette wont walk on the same sidewalk as Dayton. The only meeting b/t these schools happened in an exempt in-season tournament about 6 years ago in Hoffman Estates, IL. Had UD lost to Auburn and shot 0-25 from three instead of 0-24, I doubt we even run into Marquette.

We havent played Nova since Brooks Hall was in school. The Irish havent been on the schedule in 20 years. Seton Hall was almost a decade ago. Never understood the infatuation with programs that won't even give us the time of day on their wristwatch, and yet some want to become roommates with them to rekindle some sick fabricated bromance.

The true measure of mutual respect is when you provide it and there's nothing gained other than the satisfaction of knowing you offered it. It used to be that way with Dayton and DePaul. Both schools rooted for the other in every game w/except a head-to-head. Demon fans loved how Dayton treated Ray Meyer (standing ovation on his last trip to UD Arena), UD fans loved how Ray Meyer spoke about UD as if it were DePaul. Dayton and DePaul stuck together no matter what -- good times and bad. And there were a lot of not-so-good times. DePaul was terrible for the first 20-25 years of Meyers tenure. We had our own competitiveness issues. Ray loved Tom Blackburn like a brother.

Times have changed. Once we're in the same league, they'll offer it only because they have to.

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  #38  
Old 03-18-2015, 04:37 PM
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We had a home-home with Seton Hall a couple of years ago, but Chris' point is on the mark.

Offer the opportunity for a home-home to BigE Team W, Y, Z, but if you turn it down, you are dead to me.

Call Wichita State. Call UNLV. Call St Mary's CA. Call SMU. Call Georgia. Call FSU. Call Iowa. Propose home-homes. Someone will bite, maybe more than one.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:43 PM
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All the more reason to win tonight so we can take on Providence.

But you would still think we would approach Butler and Creighton.

Last edited by BeckysTXA; 03-18-2015 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
the point stands that we haven't established consistency. We're not viewed as a consistent NCAA team.
I bet since 2000 UD has more NCAA appearances than half of the current Big East
This isn't the same Big East!
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
The true measure of mutual respect is when you provide it and there's nothing gained other than the satisfaction of knowing you offered it. It used to be that way with Dayton and DePaul. Both schools rooted for the other in every game w/except a head-to-head. Demon fans loved how Dayton treated Ray Meyer (standing ovation on his last trip to UD Arena), UD fans loved how Ray Meyer spoke about UD as if it were DePaul. Dayton and DePaul stuck together no matter what -- good times and bad. And there were a lot of not-so-good times. DePaul was terrible for the first 20-25 years of Meyers tenure. We had our own competitiveness issues. Ray loved Tom Blackburn like a brother.
I remember some of those games at DePaul. Old style gym but very competitive from time to time.

Meyer and his son felt the same way towards UD.

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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Times have changed. Once we're in the same league, they'll offer it only because they have to.
I think ND left when they had bigger aspirations and we got JOB'd. Of course we did mis-treat S*it down Digger maybe that sent them on their way?
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Disagree, Its that kinda of thinking that Curran is fighting thru. We now have the coach and the performance. We deserve it and we will get it. Forbes has us listed as the 26th most profitable program in the country. Only X and Marquette in the Big East are larger. Money talks...we deserve it.

Is UD less profitable than X and Marquette because the school funds the football program?
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I'll rethink the new-look A10 the first year we are not invited to the Big Dance. This year we were nearly out only because the selection committee was smoking crack. That is being acknowledged by a lot of impartial college basketball observers.
Yes they were. BUT what's to stop this from happening next year, and the year after that.

I think some calls to SMU would be in order, some calls to Utah, Utah St., S Diego St., and Iowa. Even UNI (we played them about 5 or 6 years ago i believe) and Wichita for sure.

That's the OOC dilemma. Then there's the committee. I seem to recall the last committee served 3 to 4 years. Anyone on here familiar with their terms or how that works?

Last, I'd be for the Big 10 in 3 to 5 years for the same reasons. Assure some dominance in the A10 the next 3 years to prove we belong.

And also since Pecora was let go, does Fordham really think a new Coach will solve their issues. They need to call the MAAC or one of the Northeast Conference or even Colonial . No new coach will solve their issues, plus we have TOO MANY TEAMS.

Bye, bye FU. And either LaSalle or DU imho
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  #44  
Old 03-18-2015, 06:47 PM
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Yes, we would probably be better off in the Big East. However, a little school named Butler somewhere in Indiana used to do just fine in a Horizon League conference no where near as good as the A10 is today. There are many other examples of this (Gonzaga, Wichita, etc.) We may be fine if we stay where we are, MAYBE a little better off in the Big East. The A10 is a respected BB conference, maybe not top tier but respected nonetheless (6 teams last year). That may change in the future, but our best bet is to just be the best program we can be and be flexible with our options. I'm more excited about Flyer BB than I have been in a long time. I'm sure most others on this board feel that way too.
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Old 03-18-2015, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shapanud View Post
Conference Championship TV Ratings

Saturday
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU
The poor rating for the Big East is caused by being last to the table. They are only two years old. All of the other contracts were already in place.

Twice as many people turned the tv on after the Dayton game. The A-10 Championship game on CBS was less watched then a cable channel SEC game at the same time. That isn't good.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:14 PM
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I repeat. If invited they will accept.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:15 PM
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Butler used to do fine, but they upgraded twice for a reason.

A few years back I thought the big schools would see that the smaller programs could compete and give them a better footing. Well they have seen they can compete, and are more resolved than ever to find a way to exclude them.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:22 PM
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Fox's role...

We all know that this is about money. And we know that Fox knows that it has to improve ratings significantly.....or greatly reduce the NBE TV contract.

Re the last point, the NBE schools will not want to take a big hit when renegotiation time rolls around. If at that time Fox indicates that an expanded conference is likely to help ratings....and if Fox notices the eyeballs UD brings to the screen and "suggests" with UD in the NBE there will be a lot more interest in games played by the mid-west contingent....in my opinion, that sort of scenario will be far more important than whether or not the current NBE schools "want" Dayton in their league.

Having said that and knowing UD wants "in", personally, I'm every bit as comfortable with UD is its current league. Most of the A10 schools are serious about BB. Last year we were a better league than the NBE....this year, not. But, if an "off year" still results in three NCAA bids it's clear that UD will do just fine in the league it's now it.

And staying near the top of the A10 and winning is likely to be easier.

Go Flyers!
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
We all know that this is about money. And we know that Fox knows that it has to improve ratings significantly.....or greatly reduce the NBE TV contract.

Re the last point, the NBE schools will not want to take a big hit when renegotiation time rolls around. If at that time Fox indicates that an expanded conference is likely to help ratings....and if Fox notices the eyeballs UD brings to the screen and "suggests" with UD in the NBE there will be a lot more interest in games played by the mid-west contingent....in my opinion, that sort of scenario will be far more important than whether or not the current NBE schools "want" Dayton in their league.

Having said that and knowing UD wants "in", personally, I'm every bit as comfortable with UD is its current league. Most of the A10 schools are serious about BB. Last year we were a better league than the NBE....this year, not. But, if an "off year" still results in three NCAA bids it's clear that UD will do just fine in the league it's now it.

And staying near the top of the A10 and winning is likely to be easier.

Go Flyers!
I agree 100%. We are in a very, very good situation. And the A-10 is going to get better. We lost most of our top players from last year and still got 3 teams in the dance.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_NY View Post
The poor rating for the Big East is caused by being last to the table. They are only two years old. All of the other contracts were already in place.

Twice as many people turned the tv on after the Dayton game. The A-10 Championship game on CBS was less watched then a cable channel SEC game at the same time. That isn't good.
That game on cable involved UK though; they've been getting better ratings head to head than many nba games this year, frankly I'm surprised their game didn't get a higher rating.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
I agree 100%. We are in a very, very good situation. And the A-10 is going to get better. We lost most of our top players from last year and still got 3 teams in the dance.
If the a10 stays as is, it's become clear that it's going to be solid. The only fear is losing 3 or 4 teams for whatever reason and UD not being one of them.
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Methinks you are trolling.
I didn't read any posts after yours, but I laughed at the two clowns who actually thanked this troll's original post. It is so obvious. Who cares about the BE.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:23 AM
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UD is never getting an invite to the BE. First I don't think they ever expand. Second there is more than one member who do not want Dayton in. Hence no invite - ever.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:38 AM
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Dayton will be in Big East within the next two years. The TV money alone is considerably more then the A 10 money. Don't fight it...its ok and it is going to happen.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:41 AM
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It really all comes down to what Fox wants. We can all talk about how since conference teams won't want us in, we won't be in... but if Fox wants us in, we will be in.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:44 AM
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For the 3rd time...

Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Dayton will be in Big East within the next two years. The TV money alone is considerably more then the A 10 money. Don't fight it...its ok and it is going to happen.
Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
It really all comes down to what Fox wants. We can all talk about how since conference teams won't want us in, we won't be in... but if Fox wants us in, we will be in.

...if you speculators would join Pride+, you'd have read Chris R's summary of the discussion he had with AD Time Wabler concerning BigEast expansion and would, therefore, know what's going on instead of just hoping.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:13 PM
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I do not see the Big East expanding anytime soon so this is a pure hypothetical discussion. They will not expand until 2018+ and even if they expand, Dayton is not even close to a sure thing to receive an invite.

If offered an invite (with the caveats above), I was 100% for joining the Big East, but am wavering a little now. I could list the positives from academics to recruiting to perception to $ to keeping Archie to playing in better arenas (St. John's > Fordham), but will focus on a number of negatives. I still would gladly accept the hypothetical invite, but previously I would have accepted in a nanosecond and now it would take me perhaps 1 or 2 seconds.

(1) The Fox Sports TV contract is poor for exposure. Dayton is getting equal to or better exposure on ESPN, CBS, etc. -- http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/big-...-sports-1.html -- TV matters. Recruits care about being on tv.

(2) Coaches seem to be voting that the Big East is a material step down from P5. Buzz Williams left Marquette to Va Tech, Depaul could not land B Hurely (MAC) or Drew (Horizon). Butler coach considering Tennessee. St. John's does not look like it is getting D Hurley.

(3) Half of the Big East has not been that relevant for 15 years (Dayton was not either until the last 2 years). Also, most successful Big East programs the last 15 years have been Xavier (while in A-10) and Butler (while in Horizon). Starting with the 2000-2001 Season:
(a) Depaul = 1 NCAA and 1 Win
(b) Seton Hall = 2 NCAAs and 1 Win
(c) Providence = 4 NCAAs and 0 Wins
(d) St. John's = 3 NCAAs and 0 Wins
(e) Creighton = 8 NCAAs (impressive), 4 Wins (Creighton has NEVER won 2 NCAA games in a row & has not advanced beyond Round 32 Last 15 Years)
-----
*Dayton = 5 NCAAs and 6 Wins with Elite 8* YES DAYTON IS EQUAL TO IN WINS THE LAST 15 YEARS VERSUS CREIGHTON, ST. JOHN'S, PROVIDENCE, SETON HALL, AND DEPAUL. We should savor the last 2 years.
-----
(f) Georgetown = 9 NCAAs and 10 Wins with Final 4 and 2 Sweet 16s
(g) Marquette = 10 NCAAs and 13 Wins with Final 4, Elite 8, and 2 Sweet 16s
(h) Villanova = 10 NCAAs and 14 Wins with Final 4, Elite 8, and 2 Sweet 16s
(i) Xavier = 13 NCAAs (wow) and 17 Wins (wow) with 2 Elite 8s (wow), and 4 Sweet 16s (wow)
(j) Butler =9 NCAAs and 18 Wins (wow), with 2 Final Games (wow) and 1 Sweet 16.

Arguably, Butler and Xaiver are the most successful Big East teams the last 15 years with success coming while they were in the A-10 and Horizon leagues. A big difference between the top 5 of the conference and the bottom 5.

Dayton clearly would be in the middle of the Big East the lat 15 years. Materially below the top 5, but materially ahead of the bottom 5. Unfortunately, success in NCAA tourney is the only measuring stick in college basketball.

Also, I really respect Creighton and they are very similar to Dayton in media market, fans, etc. But odd in retrospect why BE took them over Dayton with geography. They have not won 2 games in a row EVER in the NCAA. Their Elite 8 in the 1940s was when only 8 teams made the tourney. They have never had any NCAA tourney success.

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Old 03-29-2015, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Dayton clearly would be in the middle of the Big East the lat 5 years. Materially below the top 5, but materially ahead of the bottom 5. Unfortunately, success in NCAA tourney is the only measuring stick in college basketball.
But if UD was in the Big East that opens up all kinds of recruiting doors - For example, maybe Payne and Trice stay home rather than going to Michigan State - so no way to tell what UD would have done the past 5 years
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
But if UD was in the Big East that opens up all kinds of recruiting doors - For example, maybe Payne and Trice stay home rather than going to Michigan State - so no way to tell what UD would have done the past 5 years
Great point. I meant middle of the pack the last 15 years in Big East with NCAA tourney wins. But you are right, hard to assess how recruiting, etc. would have changed trajectory positively or negatively.

I hate to admit it, but Xavier's and Butler's successes are even more impressive the last 15 years looking at the other 8 teams.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Also, I really respect Creighton and they are very similar to Dayton in media market, fans, etc. But odd in retrospect why BE took them over Dayton with geography. They have not won 2 games in a row EVER in the NCAA. Their Elite 8 in the 1940s was when only 8 teams made the tourney. They have never had any NCAA tourney success.
You forget that the Creighton President is on the Marquette Board of Trustees? Good ole boy network.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:00 PM
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There was an article in the Omaha paper, the link for which I have since lost, that pretty much summed up how Creighton got into the NBE. Don't read it. It will make you scratch your head. It was "the old boys" from the seminary network that got the Blue Jays in, pure and simple.

With this total lack of logic, I could see the Flyers winning the national championship in every one of the next three years, and not even being considered by the NBE. And if we were considered, we would get blackballed by a nearby school that shakes in its boots at the thought of playing us. Some deserving Jesuit school(s) who badly need the money will get in.

Fox may be the wild card here and could trump the presidents. But that's purely conjecture.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:04 PM
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Stay away from that poison.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:24 PM
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one thing to consider. The east coast Jesuit schools in the NBE were made by the OBE, and it was national TV exposure that made them. Think about that for a minute if you wonder where the NBE is currently headed.

Example: Seton Halls first NCAA was 88. Made it 6 times with PJ as the head coach. Since he left in 94 they have 3 20 win seasons and 3 NCAA appearances.

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Old 03-30-2015, 12:56 AM
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For years all we heard night after night on ESPN was Big Monday, Big East this and Big East that and the Big East ACC challenge and John Thompson and Jim Boeheim and Jay Wright and Lou Carneseca and on and on and on.

It never stopped for over twenty years. ESPN made the Big East what it was with constant publicity, 24/7/365.

Then the NBE signed with Fox's anemic Fs1 sports network. And ESPN stopped promoting them. Cold.

They still have not caught on, but they suspect something is wrong. They'll figure it out sooner or later. The momentum they inherited has already begun to slip away.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bobber View Post
The momentum they inherited has already begun to slip away.
Not really - they had 6 out of 10 teams in the Dance - all comfortably in and one was a 1 seed.

The A-10 had 3 out of 14 in - with the 3rd the last one in.

They had some pretty good momentum this year - thankfully they crapped the bed so to speak in the Tourn.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:38 AM
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It's impossible to discredit the Big East with your first breath while holding it in hopes of a future invitation and be taken seriously.

If they s*ck, stop giving them attention...

If they don't, then work you *ss off and make them miss you.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:15 PM
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A10 and BE were flipped on bids last year though. The BE is not a regular 6 bid league, just like the A10.

If offered, UD would certainly accept an invitation. And I'd prefer Big East to A10 from standpoint of cache of name recognition, and from depth of the conference. But in terms of upgrade of competition, it's not a gigantic leap. Maybe one rung up the ladder.

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Old 03-30-2015, 12:18 PM
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Two things have changed...

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It's impossible to discredit the Big East with your first breath while holding it in hopes of a future invitation and be taken seriously.

If they s*ck, stop giving them attention...

If they don't, then work you *ss off and make them miss you.
When the NBE was being formed Dayton just wasn't in the national discussion and hadn't been for a long time. That has changed in a major way.

Second, that great deal Fox made is costing them their shirts. That must change.....and Dayton's "numbers" look very good, relatively.

I don't know the duration of the Fox deal. But, Fox may tels the NBE that unless something gets "fixed", fast, the next deal will not look anything like the first...or they may not even be one.

Even before the end of the current deal, if Fox is unhappy everyone will know that....which will be an embarrassment for the NBE. In my opinion, Fox holds the key. I don't know how Fox feels about UD. But, if Fox is unhappy and tells the NBE brass that they (Fox) want Dayton.....that will do it.

It's all about money...and the NBE money angle is not good for Fox.

Would the NBE be good for UD? I don't know. But the UD administration thinks so...and their reasons go far beyond basketball. I've been told that, personally.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:20 PM
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Doug, it is good that you feel that way because it is unlikely that ud will eve be in the Big East. Xavier remembers the great midwest.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:42 PM
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Xavier (of Ohio) fans have been emboldened by the beat down they gave to the Georgia State Panthers. That was Georgia State.

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Old 03-30-2015, 01:06 PM
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by dcfan View Post
Doug, it is good that you feel that way because it is unlikely that ud will eve be in the Big East. Xavier remembers the great midwest.
Typical troll!
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:20 PM
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The FOX deal with the BE is apparently for 12 years. FOX negotiates its packages with its customers as a bundle. Included in Big East Basketball is the high drawing MMA, other college sports, and MLB. FOX is happy the new format is out drawing the former SPEED Channel.

As for X and Ga St. We all expected Baylor so talk to them and their failure to beat Ga St.
Ga St was #53 in the RPI. Not too shabby.
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Source View Post
The FOX deal with the BE is apparently for 12 years. FOX negotiates its packages with its customers as a bundle. Included in Big East Basketball is the high drawing MMA, other college sports, and MLB. FOX is happy the new format is out drawing the former SPEED Channel.

As for X and Ga St. We all expected Baylor so talk to them and their failure to beat Ga St.
Ga St was #53 in the RPI. Not too shabby.
uhuh...
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Old 03-30-2015, 07:20 PM
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Coach K's Master Plan -- the rise of the ACC and demise of the Big East.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=12089
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:03 AM
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I thought it was interesting that NASCAR would be showing on Fox Sports in place of NBE basketball games. Fox Sports is poorly viewed for NBE basketball, but when those games get moved to Fox Sports 2 channel, or whatever they call it, it's like being sentenced to the Siberian Gulag of college basketball.

Look at the coaches who were just hired into the NBE. There is a statement there.

Look at what happened in the NCAA Tournament despite the over-seeding of NBE teams. The OBE teams like Notre Dame and Louisville showed why they carried the reputation of that league.

Look at Dayton's success in the two years since the NBE was formed. Is it just a coincidence? 53-19 overall, 23-11 in the conference, 5-2 in the NCAA tournament (tournament wins over OSU, Syracuse, Stanford, Boise State and Providence) with runs to the Elite Eight and Third Round. An unprecedented number of games carried on national broadcasts. Dayton is becoming a familiar name on the national scene. Is this us suffering because we are not in the NBE? I've never been so hyped up for UD basketball. It feels like the program went on steroids. Sign me up for more. Being left out of the NBE may be the best thing that ever happened to us.

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  #76  
Old 03-31-2015, 08:42 AM
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"Being left out of the NBE may be the best thing that ever happened to us."

My sentiments exactly. I like were we are and what UD is doing.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:54 AM
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The demise of the NBE is not necessarily a good thing for the A10. Maybe we feel better being on the same side of the line between the power conferences and the rest of us but I think the middle class is getting squeezed out.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:20 AM
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With the recent success of BOTH the LADIES and the Men's BB program maybe the nB(L)east will need us more than we would need them.

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Old 03-31-2015, 10:34 AM
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The demise of the BE at this point, seriously? A figment of our imagination. As they say, those schools are laughing all the way to the bank and the NCAA tournament.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Look at Dayton's success in the two years since the NBE was formed. Is it just a coincidence? 53-19 overall, 23-11 in the conference, 5-2 in the NCAA tournament (tournament wins over OSU, Syracuse, Stanford, Boise State and Providence) with runs to the Elite Eight and Third Round. An unprecedented number of games carried on national broadcasts. Dayton is becoming a familiar name on the national scene. Is this us suffering because we are not in the NBE? I've never been so hyped up for UD basketball. It feels like the program went on steroids. Sign me up for more. Being left out of the NBE may be the best thing that ever happened to us.
I would have to say UD's success is obviously the result of Archie coming on board and it was a coincidence that it happened when the NBE was formed. I think the NBE is still trying to find it's legs, and the TV contract, while lucrative, is not giving them the exposure they need. Also, there are great "names" in the conference, but they have not developed rivalries that the general bball fan wants to watch. Who knows what, if anything will happen regarding the TV contract before it expires. My understanding is that the next time NBE expansion will be revisited is 2018. That is 3 full seasons from now. A lot can happen between now and then, and everybody is going to be watching everybody else very closely. As such, the next 3-5 years are going to be extremely critical as we chart out path for the next 20 years. If we can sustain or improve on the success over the past 2 years, we will make it very difficult to be ignored. We have the A10/ACC games coming up over the next few seasons as well. Those will be important to both the A10 and UD. If we are successful in those games, again it obviously helps us. Just keep winning!

Aside from everything else, given how the men fared this year, and after what happened last night, the A10 has to very nervous about losing UD as well. UD is almost single handedly improving the A10 on its own. Go Flyers!
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:58 AM
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The NBE is a solid basketball league with a TV contract that provides big cash and little exposure. The league will be fine but the equation OBE > NBE is what it is, not going to change.

Certainly the new coaching hires is a bit troubling.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:23 AM
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With Archie, Dayton is now among the top 3 basketball schools in the A10.

In the BE, they would fall to among the top 6.

Which do UD fans prefer?
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
With Archie, Dayton is now among the top 3 basketball schools in the A10.

In the BE, they would fall to among the top 6.

Which do UD fans prefer?
As long as us being 6th means that _avier is 7th and Marquette last, I think most would take it...

But I Royally prefer the A10.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Being left out of the NBE may be the best thing that ever happened to us.
IMHO, it has nothing to do with being in the A10, and everything to do with having AM as the coach.

I'm not sure if some UD fans really understand how big of an improvement AM is over BG. Unfortunately, BG had some very serious flaws.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
With Archie, Dayton is now among the top 3 basketball schools in the A10.

In the BE, they would fall to among the top 6.

Which do UD fans prefer?
Among the top 3 means position 1, 2 or 3. Among the top 6 means 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6. Not sure what that really means.

I would say the majority of UD fans would be more enthused to play a majority of the NBE teams over the majority of the current A10 teams. That said, I think the NBE would benefit even more from the enthusiasm that Flyer fans would bring to those games, especially on the road. It would p!ss off many fan bases to see the support the Flyers got on the road and maybe even cause those other fan bases to bring a little more to support their own team.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
With the recent success of BOTH the LADIES and the Men's BB program maybe the nB(L)east will need us more than we would need them.

My Exact thoughts! Especially on the women's side where the BE has no real quality teams unless you count Depaul. I feel like the BE has to stupid at this point to not want us with our Recent success for both teams that seems to show no signs of dieing down along with our fantastic fan support. Whether or not we would be better off there is another question. Not really sure about that. I feel like the BE must have some real beef with Dayton for whatever reason because we would for sure be a great add. Either that or they truly think 10 is a good number which I disagree, always been a fan of 12-14.
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer1995 View Post
My Exact thoughts! Especially on the women's side where the BE has no real quality teams unless you count Depaul. I feel like the BE has to stupid at this point to not want us with our Recent success for both teams that seems to show no signs of dieing down along with our fantastic fan support. Whether or not we would be better off there is another question. Not really sure about that. I feel like the BE must have some real beef with Dayton for whatever reason because we would for sure be a great add. Either that or they truly think 10 is a good number which I disagree, always been a fan of 12-14.
Yea, but X has been so much better (in men's basketball than us)........ Why would the rest of the NBE teams consider UD at all? LOL

I know X has had a great run...lots of men's basketball accomplishments and it's a Jesuit school -----what else did they offer the NBE? Just wondering?
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:31 PM
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The only thing I think is cool about the NBE is they are established as a non-football conference and I will gladly give them mad props for that. Otherwise, I don't care about the NBE, joining the NBE or anything else with the NBE. I love college basketball and will watch just about any game (other than several Ohio teams) so I would rather see UD join a real power conference. But, I understand it's not realistic with football driving everything so that thought is clearly not going to happen.

I’m proud of all of our sports success especially with volleyball, soccer and women’s basketball and as long as UD continues to get into NCAA tournaments I won’t complain too much about the A10 even though I’m not really thrilled about our conference.
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:01 PM
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I still don't totally understand the infatuations with the NBE. I do, from a reputation and financial standpoint, but we still play in a 3-4 bid conference. I'd rather the team and staff focus on continuing to EARN one of those bids, and preferably win league titles.

If we get an offer, great. If we don't, who cares. Stay on course and keep making a statement.
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The demise of the BE at this point, seriously? A figment of our imagination. As they say, those schools are laughing all the way to the bank and the NCAA tournament.
So are we, and we are better off without them than we are with them. At least we are achieving our success without compromising the inherent values of a catholic institution. That conference, on the other hand, sold its sole to the devil the day it was formed.

Until they demonstrate that their decisions are driven by their identity, and not by greed, I would just as soon keep them at arm's length.
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Old 03-31-2015, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
With Archie, Dayton is now among the top 3 basketball schools in the A10.

In the BE, they would fall to among the top 6.

Which do UD fans prefer?
I would prefer to be among the top 3 in the BE.

PC was 4th and St. Johns was 5th. You're saying we can't compete with them--with 6 scholarship players?! Imagine if PC had 6 scholarship players, they would be howling in laughter. "UD thinks they could be 4th in the conference just because we had a down year--with only 6 scholarship players!!"

There's NO REASON we can't be top 3 in the current version of the BE in any given year. There are no dynasties in this group in my opinion.
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  #92  
Old 03-31-2015, 03:05 PM
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Not a question of being Top-3 in the A10 or Top-6 in the BE. Its a question of surrounding yourself with institutions that appreciate your presence and are capable of treating you in a manner that does not come across as that long-lost HS friend that only comes around or picks up the phone when they desperately need something.

If you think they are still your friend, you are living a lie. If you think doing things for them will make them a better friend, you are living an even bigger one.
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  #93  
Old 03-31-2015, 03:06 PM
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It certainly doesn't seem that NBE expansion is imminent. If a possible move is 3 years or so away, I think it benefits us as long as Archie stays.

The thing that makes the NBE similar to the A10 now as opposed to before all the realignment, is that very few if any of the NBE coaching jobs are "dream jobs". While that may be somewhat obvious, it means that those schools are very susceptible to a bad hire negatively impacting the program... just as all the A10 schools are. The nature of the business is that there will be coaching changes. That could lead to the type of volatility that could benefit us if there is expansion and if we end up in the NBE and if Archie is here when expansion occurs and if Archie decided that the NBE was big enough for him.

The problem is that's too many ifs to get too up or too down about now.
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Old 03-31-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Not a question of being Top-3 in the A10 or Top-6 in the BE. Its a question of surrounding yourself with institutions that appreciate your presence and are capable of treating you in a manner that does not come across as that long-lost HS friend that only comes around or picks up the phone when they desperately need something.

If you think they are still your friend, you are living a lie. If you think doing things for them will make them a better friend, you are living an even bigger one.
The only thing I want to do for them is help their home attendance numbers and send those fans home unhappy.
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Not a question of being Top-3 in the A10 or Top-6 in the BE. Its a question of surrounding yourself with institutions that appreciate your presence and are capable of treating you in a manner that does not come across as that long-lost HS friend that only comes around or picks up the phone when they desperately need something.

If you think they are still your friend, you are living a lie. If you think doing things for them will make them a better friend, you are living an even bigger one.
I would be ok being considered nouveau riche by some of the old guard. Allegiance is fleeting is such things. Once in, I think several of the schools would be fine from day 1.

Some of the others may not be excited initially but at a certain point the Vanderbilts give way to Buffets and the Gates'. Even it is grudgingly, respect can be earned. The key is earning it.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I would prefer to be among the top 3 in the BE.

PC was 4th and St. Johns was 5th. You're saying we can't compete with them--with 6 scholarship players?!

There's NO REASON we can't be top 3 in the current version of the BE in any given year. There are no dynasties in this group in my opinion.
Not a matter of "competing" but rather a matter of perception.

UD was better this year but was still "perceived" to be worse (last team in).
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
So are we, and we are better off without them than we are with them. At least we are achieving our success without compromising the inherent values of a catholic institution. That conference, on the other hand, sold its sole to the devil the day it was formed.

Until they demonstrate that their decisions are driven by their identity, and not by greed, I would just as soon keep them at arm's length.
FriscoFlyer, how has the Big East "sold its sole to the devil the day it was formed?" Perhaps they made a bad long-term business decision going with Fox for short-term monetary gain. However, the A-10 would have jumped at the same deal (which of course would never had been offered).
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:07 PM
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Re the last half dozen, or so, posts,...a few comments.

1. From a conference scheduling point of view it's desirable to have few enough members to play everyone home-and-home. I don't know of a person that does not prefer that. So, a conference of nine or ten members is nice. But, compared to other issues being able to play everyone else twice in a season just isn't that important.

2. Money: TV is where the dough comes from. That means Fox, ESPN et al have a large say in conference composition, either directly or indirectly. Thus, if FOX is unhappy with its end of the financials...and feels more teams would help, then the NBE will expand whether it wants to or not. And the choice of new members will be based in large part on what they bring to the TV table.

3. UD is just fine in the A10 as currently configured...from a BB perspective. But, there is more to it than that. Apparently the UD administration is of the opinion that the NBE is perceived nationally as the one and only conference comprised of the nation's most prestigious Catholic universities. If you're "in" you are among the Catholic elite, so to speak. And if you are not...you are not. I don't know if that's true or not. But, it's reasonable to assume that those leading our U have understanding and insight beyond ours.

Surely, Georgetown and Villanova are top-tier institutions...and Fordham is highly regarded, occasionally referred to as New York's Catholic Ivy. If Saint Louis were to be added and not Dayton...that would be considered a "reputational blow", I believe UD's thinking would be.

We're doing just fine as far as BB is concerned....the last two years having had great impact. And that has happened in the A10..an A10 that lost long time very successful BB members Temple, Xavier.

With these thoughts, it's my opinion that UD wants in the A10 much more for institutional reasons than for basketball. And if other Catholic schools were to be added and not Dayton, I think UD would be "wounded" institutionally. If the additions are not Catholic schools the calculus changes a bit in that regard.

Just opinion.
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  #99  
Old 03-31-2015, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Not a matter of "competing" but rather a matter of perception.

UD was better this year but was still "perceived" to be worse (last team in).
Nothing changes perception like winning a lot and then winning in the tournament. Conference affiliation takes a back seat to that. If we out-perform other similar schools on the court in the NCAA tournament like we have recently, all the calculus changes.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Not a matter of "competing" but rather a matter of perception.

UD was better this year but was still "perceived" to be worse (last team in).
Yes, but IMHO, UD proved that the "perception" was wrong. And yeah, yeah, UD had a home court advantage, blah, blah, blah. HEY - not our fault! Blame the committee! What other team had to play 6 games in 10 days, WITH ONLY 6 RECRUITED SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS!?

Seems to me that, in this case, perception is NOT reality!
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