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  #1  
Old 12-01-2018, 02:44 PM
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Disappointed? Or no?

I may be in the minority here, but I'm really not disappointed.

Could we have beat Miss St? Sure. If we had hit a couple wide open shots, got a rebound or 2, made a couple of FT's. If my aunt had balls she could be my uncle.

I think there are 2 basic crowds: the "if you're not first you're last" crowd, and the "how did you do in relative terms" crowd.

If you're in the former then it's pretty easy, just look at the record in March.

If you're in the latter, I can't see how we could be all that disappointed. Last night we start a 2 juniors, 2 sophomores, and a freshman. First off the bench is a senior who was sick and winded, another freshman, and our cavalry gets shot in the foot (junior guard) and can't play at all so we bring in another freshman for his first court appearance against a top 25 team. On the season as a whole you flip Cunningham for Obi, but the story doesn't change.

Compared to expectations, are we really doing badly? Unfortunately we're just good enough to lose against UVA, OK, and Miss St. Close is still a loss, I get it.

But are we playing like crap? Any scholarship players who we need to "revoke their scholarship" like we hear every year? Coach is totally clueless and needs fired? Attitude problems that need addressed in the locker room? 40 point blowouts that lacked effort?

We have OK talent right now, and not enough of it with only 8 guys playing. They're playing pretty well as a unit if you ask me. That unit has not gotten across the finish line where they could have a couple of times, but last night we missed some wide open shots on well executed plays (not desperation heaves as the clock expired because we were outclassed by the opponent). The ball didn't go in the hole.

I just can't say I'm disappointed on the whole, despite the fact that we let a couple slip away that were winnable.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2018, 02:52 PM
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Jordan is not shooting well and neither is Trey. They are no other options with only 8 men.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2018, 03:11 PM
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Color me “mildly disappointed”, and that’s only because we’ve just missed 3 consecutive opportunities to gain some confidence and brownie points against “the big boys”. But I’d rather have high expectations and be mildly disappointed than have low expectations that are easily met.

One thing these “mild disappointments” do is force everyone involved with the team to do self-examination, to see what they could do better. Ryan Mikesell and Trey Landers each made at least 1 bad pass last night, that led to points for MSU. Jordan Davis needs to improve on his shooting. Jalen Crutcher needs to keep the ball moving, and not become a “stall point” for the offense. Josh Cunningham needs to be more careful in his eating habits (half-kidding there, but his inability to go at full strength last night was a key). And so on. And that includes the coaching staff as well.

Will they get over the hump? I believe so. How long will it take? Dunno. But until we’re not saying “missed it by THAT MUCH”, I’ll be at least mildly disappointed.
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:13 PM
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I'm not disappointed in the least... Before this season started, all I wanted to see was plenty of improvement/togetherness compared to last year, possibly get 20+ wins... Then go for a run towards the conference crown and an NCAA bid next year with a full roster.

Besides I give them a little bit of a pass yesterday with Jhery out and Josh CLEARLY under the weather, was I sad they lost sure but all is not lost.

Hopefully the team continues to get better as the year goes on and get a top 4 seed in the A10 Tourney.
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:26 PM
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Look like a team that doesn't know how to win and is not mentally tough. Young.

Also can't shoot worth a flying flip. A little disappointing, yes. We should've beaten either of the last two teams we've played.

Can't afford to let 3 losses in a row turn into 4 on Tuesday.
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2018, 04:33 PM
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I'm in Gazoo's camp. Dayton got meaningful contributions in crunch time from all of their healthy upper-classmen last night. Unfortunately that was only two players. Mikesell hit some needed shots and Landers made some great defensive plays. What the Flyers need besides a secondary playmaker and another shooter only comes with experience.

When the other team is ripping off a few buckets in a row is when you have to know what actions you want to run to get good, comfortable, rhythm shots. This team hasn't yet learned who, what or where to go to counter those runs. Think Scoochie on a high-ball screen launching a deep three, Pollard at the elbow with one man to beat or Siebert coming around a staggered screen. Think back to any successful Dayton team in any era and a few players operating from a few spots immediately come to mind.

Dayton looks great when things are free-flowing and they are operating opportunistically. For this team, that might eventually be PNR with Crutcher and Obi or Josh, but Jalen needs to run his man into that screen better and the bigs needs to roll or pop into space better and both players need to intuitively feel where each other are going. That only come with experience and practice.

One thing I saw last night that will be great film study for the team was too many players turning down open shots or not looking to attack into space against a good defense. Davis and Cohill turned down some open looks after missing a couple shots. They have to pull the trigger on those because too often Flyers ended up with worse shots later in the clock or turnovers. I have to think AG was exhorting his guys to play fearless. Jordan took something to heart and was aggressive the last three minutes. I'm fine with the missed shots, because I saw someone who wanted to make a play.

Another thing you see all the time with younger teams that we saw last night was not taking advantage of unexpected opportunities presented by the offense. You might be running a side PNR with the object of hitting Obi on a roll or driving into the paint, but the defense might be giving you something else. I saw a lot of opportunity to take 1-2 hard dribbles that would warp a defense and result in an open shot 1 or 2 passes away, but they are not feeling super confident off-script. That will also improve with experience.

As long as this team doesn't consistently miss opportunities like the last three games all season, then they should be fine.
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2018, 05:09 PM
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We outclassed Miss State for 75-80% of the game but couldn't finish out either half. It's disappointing but frustrating may be the better word for it.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2018, 06:00 PM
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Disappointed that in last 5 min
we never made an initial pass
to the post, all shots came off
the weave....and several TOO early
in shot clock.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2018, 06:23 PM
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I'm only disappointed because I re-calibrated my expectations after the Butler/Virginia games. We have shown that we can play with anyone - so I think I will be disappointed with just about any loss this season.

Relative to my preseason expectations, not disappointed in the least.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2018, 06:32 PM
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Disappointed we lost the last two games? Yeah, I thought we could have won both

Not disappointed in the season or ready to throw people overboard. That's probably the toughest 4 game stretch in the regular season since the 2000 I think Maui Invitational

We competed in all 4 games which I didn't think would happen before the season

With Cohill's slow start and Jordan Davis struggling I think it's impressive to be able to compete with 4 NCAA teams without much on the perimeter
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:56 PM
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Too early to really be disappointed. I guess a little since we certainly had chances against some top opponents. But for the season, I won't be disappointed unless they really play well under expectations into the A10. I hate to see another season of no NCAA chance but I think we'll have to settle for seeing improvement throughout the year.
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Old 12-01-2018, 07:40 PM
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It's about expectations. If I felt like UD was a legitimate contender for#1 in the conference, I would expect to win 1-2 of those recent games.

My thought going into the season was more like #4-5 in the conference. So I'd expect to win 0-1 of those games.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:19 PM
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Disappointed that we lost. We had a good opportunity and did not capitalize. We didn't play well.

Not disappointed in the season. We're improving defensively. We have talent. We've been in games despite poor shooting. If Davis and Landers start shooting near last year's averages, Cohill becomes at least a threat from 3pt land, we make a reasonable amount of free throws and stay healthy-ish we will comptete for the top of the A10 and have a chance at the crown.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:51 PM
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I predicted either 10-3 or 9-4 in the non-con so we are still on target. Dwayne Cohill said in his interview with David Jablonski before the season that he was ready to do anything that is needed to help his team win. He has been playing tentative on offense lately which has contributed to some costly turnovers. I believe we will see him improve by leaps and bounds as the season progresses.
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:50 PM
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I won't be disappointed unless we lose to someone we should have beat. So far, the Butler game is a lifesaver. Now, maybe Auburn might be out of reach, but I wouldn't be surprised if we go on a long streak of wins soon.

Way more fun than last year!

And now that Frankie is in the mix I hope they give him a lot of minutes whenever possible. Detroit might be a good time for that.
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:21 PM
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With a healthy Cunningham, Dayton wins, so that is disappointing, but as a positive, this season may be better off with Frankie available. Dayton may be able to use him sparingly to keep other guys fresh for the end.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:00 AM
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Not disapointed at all, pleased that we have shown that we can play with almost anybody. A bit frustrated that, showing that we can play at a high level, we faded at the end of the last two games when victory was a real possibility.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Not disapointed at all, pleased that we have shown that we can play with almost anybody. A bit frustrated that, showing that we can play at a high level, we faded at the end of the last two games when victory was a real possibility.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:19 AM
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Very Dissapointed.... just watched Replay. Last 5 min, very poor defense and TO on offense. Have to win that game.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:38 AM
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Disappointed. Yes.
Realistic Yes

UD stayed close to a top 25 team that was taller, quicker, more experienced and deeper. All of those advantage showed up at the end of the game.

UD is much improved over last year, but not quite a top 25 team yet.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:06 AM
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About as happy as a Brown's fan. The Brown's fans are ecstatic because they won some games. Next year they will want the super bowl or be disappointed. So last year we stunk it up with a losing season, and this year I am excited we have a winning record and can compete with anyone. If this happens next year, I will be as disappointed.
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
I predicted either 10-3 or 9-4 in the non-con so we are still on target. Dwayne Cohill said in his interview with David Jablonski before the season that he was ready to do anything that is needed to help his team win. He has been playing tentative on offense lately which has contributed to some costly turnovers. I believe we will see him improve by leaps and bounds as the season progresses.
I could clearly see Cohill making a Trey Landers-ish improvement next season. He was highly recruited. There is a playa in that body, but it might not surface until next season.

Also I think against MSU, Jhery Matos injury can't be ignored as insignificant. We simply can't expect to max-click with any one of our original 8 out with an injury. It sorely affects our bench and flexibility, especially against top 25 teams. And alas, we had TWO out, and still competed well.

If it helps, go watch our MSU highlights on YouTube. It's 3 minutes of joy. No lowlights needed, thank you.
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:41 PM
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I am Disappointed

Not with the season to date as they are exactly where I predicted them to be at this point. I am disappointed because they missed a great opportunity to improve and upset a top 25 team in the arena which rare. I am disappointed because again UD was missing their best player at the start and the finish of the game. The Flyer standard demands that as a tri-captain he lead us to important victories. I am disappointed because a win would have rewarded the team and the fans with a capstone Non-conference moment and sent a signal to the A-10 that Dayton is in it to win it. But the positives remain. This team is better than a year ago because of defense and heart. They must improve their shooting and foul shooting. Because of the Mississippi State loss Dayton slides back to to a non-top four bye qualifier in the A-10 and must struggle up hill to gain a bye. This team may be able to pull it off barring further injury.
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:12 PM
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We are not going to see a Butler, Virginia, Oklahoma, MSU, Auburn, in the A10.

What we went through in the last 9 days of November is not representative of what's ahead in the A10. It wasn't our intent to be competitive in the A10 by having the whole League come back to us. "But here we are".

God help us get 9 healthy bodies and we will be fine.
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Old 12-02-2018, 02:42 PM
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The A10 Preason Poll of a panel of coaches and media predicted
1 St Louis 2 St Joes 3 Davidson 4 George Mason 5 Rhode IS 6 Dayton

The current ratings look as follows

Sagarin
Davidson 75 St Louis 79 VCU 86 Dayton 88

ESPN BPI
Dayton 68 Davidson 79 VCU107 St Louis 108

Ken Pom
St Louis 72 Davidson 78 Dayton 100 St Joes 108

The Nov 29 NCAA NET the Miss st loss not included
Dayton 48 Duquesne 52 St Louis 78 St Joes 100

The biggest miss is George Mason. St Joes underperforming.
Dayton exceeding the preseason prediction
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  #26  
Old 12-02-2018, 02:44 PM
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Excited. Dayton is 1-3 in A games (top 50 location adjusted). And they were in all 4 games under 2 minutes! I would have said 0-4 in these games beforehand, 1-3 would be really good, and 2-2 absolutely amazing. Defense is progressing massively and offense has improved.

As a benchmark, in year 2, Archie went 1-6 in A games. AG has 3 more A games this season (@ Auburn, St Louis, and Davidson). Worst case AG will have the same record versus A teams in 2nd season as Archie, that is worst case!

Roster will massively improved next year. Defense is on right trajectory and AG has a history of great defenses at VCU and Bama. AG recruiting much better than Archie. AG has much better assistants than Archie. Concerns are Archie has had better offenses than AG -- Dayton is not pushing the ball enough in transition and this seems to be every year that AG coached teams play at a slow tempo. Archie appears to be a much better in-game coach than AG. Hard to assess right now, who develops players more?
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2018, 05:46 PM
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I watched the games against Butler, Virginia, Oklahoma & Mississippi State. I am not disappointed at all. We played Virginia, Oklahoma & MSU tough. Maybe Butler is not as good as past years, but we were underdogs in all four games and played tough.

While at this stage we may not yet be a top team , I do think we are a good team with excellent upside potential. We are going to be hurt by not having a strong inside presence and I think that showed. But then I think we knew that.

Except for Auburn, I do not know much about the next six teams but I am anxious to see how we come back from the losses and work on eliminating any problems that showed when we playing the last four top teams. I think that if we win the next five or six games, our confidence will be high and we will be a force to reckon with when we start the A-10 season against Richmond.

I think we have a nucleus of a good present and very good future team. So, I am not disappointed and eagerly look forward to the start of the A-10 season.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:14 PM
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I am guilty of raising the bar after the Butler game, so yes a bit disappointed we could not pull out a win against Miss St. or even Oklahoma.

When I think back to before the Butler game, and consider we have been either leading or within just a couple of point in the closing minutes of all three losses, two of which were against nationally ranked teams in #25 Miss St and #4 Virginia, and the third loss was to current #3 in RPI Oklahoma, I am excited to see what the rest of the season brings and keeping the bar at a much higher level than I had it set on November 1.

Are we a 6 loss team going into the A-10 tourney?
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
.I am disappointed because again UD was missing their best player at the start and the finish of the game. The Flyer standard demands that as a tri-captain he lead us to important victories.
My thoughts as well.

I hear too often that our offense MUST flow through Cunningham (Dakich must've said it 2 dozen times during UVA and OK games). What many fail to realize is that Cunningham has to want the ball and work to get position to do so, which often isn't the case.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:51 AM
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In Josh’s defense, he wasn’t available at he end of the game because he caught a elbow to the temple, (not called, made basket, should have at least been an offensive foul and probably a flagrant 1).
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:00 AM
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CFF - I would love to see us as a 6 loss team going into the A-10 tourney but I think that is setting the bar really high. Or did you mean starting the A-10 season. Next six games:

Detroit Mercy (3-5) at UD should be a win

Auburn (6-1) away - based on games against Virgina, Okla and MSU probably a loss - Auburn only lost t0 Duke by 10 and I think it was at Duke.

Tulsa (5-3 but 5-0 at home) away - Tulsa lost to Nevada by 10 - would love to see a win here if we play like we did against Butler et als but probably a loss.

Western Michigan (4-4) at UD - should be a win.

Presbyterian (4-4) at UD - should be a win

Georgia Southern (5-2) at UD - should be a win.

It that pans out, we will be 8-5 going into A-10 play. I would be happier to see 9-4 but would be disappointed to see anything worse than 8-5.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:15 AM
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I'm probably in the minority, but yes disappointed. The Miss. St. loss was the most upset I have been after a loss since the GW last second put-back loss a few years ago.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:59 AM
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I am disappointed in the MSU lose. We were beat by a team that outdid us (more physical, effort, etc).
Not exactly sure when it hit me, but I felt like MSU was managing the game and waiting for the last 5~8 minutes to take the kill shot. First half felt like normal ebb and flow of a game, but somewhere in second half it changed (to me at least).

I am glad the defense and effort is so much better than last year. But in a way, that makes the offensive struggles that much worse. The offense at times yields good results, but it feels 'lucky' (probably not the best adjective). It seems to capitalized on defensive mistakes. But does not 'create' defensive mistakes. Seems like so many times the open person with the open shot is in a 'uncomfortable' spot. A little guy posting up, a slasher open beyond 3 point line, a outside shooter being forced to drive, etc. Just seems like we react rather than dictate offense. And that is frustrating/disappointing.

I think the A10 will have less teams to take advantage of things. But some do. And some coaches will know how to exploit 'it'.
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  #34  
Old 12-03-2018, 10:51 AM
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What is disappointing is UD's last 5 minutes of the most recent 3 games is what caused them to be out of position for a win. It looked like a carbon copy of one another. The same issues showed up. Turnovers, poor shot selection, quick shot decisions, no boxing out, lack of effort as if they were disinterested in the game at that time.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by keats '91 View Post
I am disappointed in the MSU lose. We were beat by a team that outdid us (more physical, effort, etc).
Not exactly sure when it hit me, but I felt like MSU was managing the game and waiting for the last 5~8 minutes to take the kill shot. First half felt like normal ebb and flow of a game, but somewhere in second half it changed (to me at least).
Stronger teams wear their opponents down. They know they can pull away at the end, because their opponents have to play at top level for 35 minutes. Give credit to the 40 minute talent of Mississippi State.

UD could have possibly won the game, but it would have taken an extraordinary effort at the end and probably some luck.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Larymike View Post
as if they were disinterested in the game at that time.
Or the other team picks up their intensity at that time. As if we can out hustle them for most of the game, just not when it actually counts...
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:23 AM
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Good Post

I have been able to attend all the games and I agree there is a pattern, so be it against good teams that has happen in the last 3 and a Bit at end of Butler game. My thoughts, the boys get tentative and other than Crutcher don't look to attack or score the ball. It is a mental toughness not physical that has to be corrected. Watch the tape of Josh and Ryan, at times like these we need there vocal and mental leadership to come thru. Trey does it but notice how Ryan will drop his shoulders and Josh is just very quiet. I also think Anthony over coaches the last few minutes and the shot clock becomes a issue. The boys are much improved but we have to instill a killer instinct and don't be afraid of the result. Jordan, Cohill, Matos all need to be more aggressive on the offensive end to take pressure off Jalen. They are young but this the staffs next step with this group. Its also effects them On D, they lose there energy and focus.Open 3s etc. Lets hope Matos can make it back. he is so key for the conference.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:23 PM
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The players are disappointed.

CAG is disappointed.

**** straight I'm disappointed.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:45 PM
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Just disappointed in the team's free throw shooting (and lack of free throws attempted) in both the Virginia and Miss St games.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:24 PM
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Disappointed but at the same time encouraged at some of the things I see. We obviously need to learn how to start winning these close games but I think we have shown we have replenished our talent level and will continue to do so next year with the three transfers.

As for the three losses in a row, it makes upsetting Auburn at their place even that much more important.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:34 AM
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"Detroit Mercy (3-5) at UD should be a win" - not disappointed now either.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:42 AM
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We are managing to play a pretty darn tough non-con schedule, thanks to the win over Butler in Nassau. We likely finish non-con at 9-4.

Will that schedule pan into being tougher come A-10 Conference play? That is the $64,000 question. I certainly hope so, as it would take my gut of 10-8/11-7 in conference to a much better record.

The team is still young - but we have an opportunity in front of us to make some noise in conference.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:45 PM
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I hope not, but...

Originally Posted by Larymike View Post
What is disappointing is UD's last 5 minutes of the most recent 3 games is what caused them to be out of position for a win. It looked like a carbon copy of one another. The same issues showed up. Turnovers, poor shot selection, quick shot decisions, no boxing out, lack of effort as if they were disinterested in the game at that time.
Brace yourself for disappointment x4. Auburn is the toughest team we have face so far.
They are tough and quick and play great defense. Would easily be our best win if we can pull it off.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:28 PM
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I don't know how anyone can't be disappointed with the result of the Miss State game. It's a head scratcher. We probably led 85% of the game. Had a nice lead under 5 minutes I believe....playing on our home court and not closing it out? Very disappointing.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:43 PM
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I was disappointed as all get out. I stayed off UDPride since after that game until this morning. A win would have kept us in the at large discussion. Now it is back to my hope at the start of the season to finish in top 4 of A10.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
I'm in Gazoo's camp. Dayton got meaningful contributions in crunch time from all of their healthy upper-classmen last night. Unfortunately that was only two players. Mikesell hit some needed shots and Landers made some great defensive plays. What the Flyers need besides a secondary playmaker and another shooter only comes with experience.

When the other team is ripping off a few buckets in a row is when you have to know what actions you want to run to get good, comfortable, rhythm shots. This team hasn't yet learned who, what or where to go to counter those runs. Think Scoochie on a high-ball screen launching a deep three, Pollard at the elbow with one man to beat or Siebert coming around a staggered screen. Think back to any successful Dayton team in any era and a few players operating from a few spots immediately come to mind.

Dayton looks great when things are free-flowing and they are operating opportunistically. For this team, that might eventually be PNR with Crutcher and Obi or Josh, but Jalen needs to run his man into that screen better and the bigs needs to roll or pop into space better and both players need to intuitively feel where each other are going. That only come with experience and practice.

One thing I saw last night that will be great film study for the team was too many players turning down open shots or not looking to attack into space against a good defense. Davis and Cohill turned down some open looks after missing a couple shots. They have to pull the trigger on those because too often Flyers ended up with worse shots later in the clock or turnovers. I have to think AG was exhorting his guys to play fearless. Jordan took something to heart and was aggressive the last three minutes. I'm fine with the missed shots, because I saw someone who wanted to make a play.

Another thing you see all the time with younger teams that we saw last night was not taking advantage of unexpected opportunities presented by the offense. You might be running a side PNR with the object of hitting Obi on a roll or driving into the paint, but the defense might be giving you something else. I saw a lot of opportunity to take 1-2 hard dribbles that would warp a defense and result in an open shot 1 or 2 passes away, but they are not feeling super confident off-script. That will also improve with experience.

As long as this team doesn't consistently miss opportunities like the last three games all season, then they should be fine.
Whacked: the above is a very insightful post. Post some more. You’ve got good stuff to say.
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