Converting Flyer Fans to FOOTBALL!

chriscage · #1 02-08-2009, 11:43 AM

What would it take to get Flyer roundball fanatics excited about/attending UD football?

What will it take to fill Welcome Stadium for every home game?

Does the "Red Scare" care?

smitch425 · #2 02-08-2009, 12:13 PM

a person one time to go to a game and see how great it is. Also, that person would have to not care about any of the other teams that are playing at 12 or 1pm on that saturday. Flyer football is awesome, and it is a shame that more people don't attend. It would be great to have the students more involved. I see some show up to get their points, but I don't know how many of them actually stick around for the game itself.

ndflyer · #3 02-08-2009, 12:17 PM

I been to one to get spirit points, didnt care for it. it was boring. Go to osu games or pro games or even some high school games and a ud game felt like i was watching jr high.

*not the players but just from the fans perspective with such low attendance and not really everyone cheering. Im just spoiled from all the osu games i went to while my gf went there and i visited and the whole stadium chanting o-h-i-o etc and everything they do. UD doesnt have the traditions that it needs. I know a lot of people dont care for osu but we could learn a few things. If we had an alma mater that people liked and sung after ud games (if we could get the blue hairs to stay that long) it would bring people together. just my 2cents

RipFlyer'07 · #4 02-08-2009, 12:17 PM

It is the other games around the country happening at the same time that is keeping people from attending. Maybe hangovers too?

Swampy Meadows · #5 02-08-2009, 12:19 PM

Chris:

A good person to ask would be "Detroit Flyer." Dave is probably the most passionate supporter of UD football on UD Pride, as well as UD hoops.

FLORIDAFLYER · #6 02-08-2009, 12:26 PM

Living in Florida, I don't get up the UD as often as I would like but I try to make it up for at least one football game. I try to pick a game with SDU or Drake. I really enjoy sitting in the stands on a fall afternoon and watching. Flyers do a great job with the team, band and everything else. I know we are not tOSU but I enjoy watching a quality team play. When I attended UD we were D-1, had fewer players than now, and got our butts kinked almost every game. I also try to make the Jacksonville game when it is down here.( Now there is a high school field if I ever saw one.)

ParkerUD09 · #7 02-08-2009, 12:30 PM

Jon Gruden coaching, that would bring me to games. I've always wondered if UD and the city of Dayton could support a MAC football team.

number21 · #8 02-08-2009, 12:32 PM

Probably go back to D1 and join a decent conference.

smitch425 · #9 02-08-2009, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by ndflyer

If we had an alma mater that people liked and sung after ud games (if we could get the blue hairs to stay that long) it would bring people together. just my 2cents

After every game the team, coaches, cheerleaders and rudy gather on the field and sing the school song.

masonflyer · #10 02-08-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by number21

Probably go back to D1 and join a decent conference.

Bingo!

Wings In Stripes · #11 02-08-2009, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by number21

Probably go back to D1 and join a decent conference.

I don't buy that. You would support a bad D1-A team ... which is what we would be for a while, over a very good D1-AA team? Not likely. UD Football is fine where it is.

ndflyer · #12 02-08-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by smitch425

After every game the team, coaches, cheerleaders and rudy gather on the field and sing the school song.

I stand corrected. Ive heard our alma mater once at graduation and it just wasnt a catchy tune. not that it has anything to do with football but i didnt know people actually sang it

KiefaberAlum08 · #13 02-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wings In Stripes

I don't buy that. You would support a bad D1-A team ... which is what we would be for a while, over a very good D1-AA team? Not likely. UD Football is fine where it is.

Ok this is offseason thread at its finest, so I'm not sure exactly why I'm responding. However, to say UD is fine where it is, is laughable. I attended every home game in 2007(one of our finest seasons ever) and was often...well bored. The game either end in a blow out, or a loss. Its simply how it always ends. I know this thread will spiral into oblivion soon, but before it does I'll make a couple points.

1. We need to play real opponents. No one cares about Drake, Cambell, Morehead State, or Valparaiso; NO ONE. The Fordham and Yale games were a great idea and I hope we continue scheduling opponents that people have actually heard of.

2. Student attendance will never be high until the football team actively campaigns on campus. UD football simply isn't part of the campus culture, as more people would rather watch a game at bdubs that make the trek across the river. If you took a poll on campus most people could easily name the starting quarter back at Ohio State, Michigan, or Notre Dame. All of about 20 could tell you who started for Dayton last year.

3. Welcome Stadium is a dump, and the new turf actually makes it look cheesier. It's barely even deserving of being referred to as a stadium; most high schools have more amenities than we do. UD needs to work out someway to sell the naming rights, and do some serious improvements rather than band aids to a hunk of concrete. In an ideal world(which will never happen) the stadium would be destroyed and placed at the current fairgrounds location.

UDBrian · #14 02-08-2009, 05:57 PM

UD plays high caliber football and more people should attend the games.

I do agree that things can be done to make it more exciting from a participation standpoint.

It is very possible that many people don't realize the cost of the games, the schedule and quality of the UD games.

But, the bottom line is that it is easier for people to sit on their couch drinking beer and eating chips than to take the kids to a football game.

murphy98 · #15 02-08-2009, 06:27 PM

why would I go. Would we have 12k show up for a hoops game if we were not D1 ? UD football is good for its division but its not much more than high school ball. They also play in a dump of a stadium against teams we could care less about. UD basketball is great because every decade or so this small school makes a run at the elite of college world.

Wings In Stripes · #16 02-08-2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by KiefaberAlum08

Student attendance will never be high until the football team actively campaigns on campus. UD football simply isn't part of the campus culture, as more people would rather watch a game at bdubs that make the trek across the river. If you took a poll on campus most people could easily name the starting quarter back at Ohio State, Michigan, or Notre Dame. All of about 20 could tell you who started for Dayton last year.

that was my point, I doubt UD Football will ever be highly popular on campus or around dayton (mostly because of OSU), so why ruin it by turning us into a lame MAC program. I'm fine with having a very good D-1 AA team.

3. Welcome Stadium is a dump, and the new turf actually makes it look cheesier. It's barely even deserving of being referred to as a stadium; most high schools have more amenities than we do.

It is a high school stadium, run by dayton public schools. UD gets a sweet deal to play there, so dont expect changes soon.

ClevelandFlyer05 · #17 02-08-2009, 08:44 PM

-An on-campus stadium
-A playoff for Division I FCS non-scholarship football
-A conference of teams that are geographically located nearby to us, including potential rivals like St. Louis, Xavier, and Marquette

All of the above would create a lot more interest than what the current team generates. Right now we are playing in an off-campus stadium, with no hope for postseason play, against a hodge-podge conference of teams that aren't our peers and many of whom are in different regions in the country. It's not working and as much as I think the program is an asset to the school (if not fiscally), I don't know how much longer it makes sense to go on like this.

DetroitFlyer · #18 02-10-2009, 08:32 PM

A number of good points / ideas above. Why will 12,000+ show up to see roundball play Coppin State or Bethune Cookman, while less than 4000 show up to see the boys of the gridiron play defending Patriot League champion and fellow A-10 conference member Fordham? Heck, even when Yale came to town, we only had a bit over 6,000 fans show up. It was the first time in history that Yale had ever played a game in Ohio....

The simple answer is that there is no collective, community passion for football. If you can quantify why there is so little passion for UD Football relative to UD basketball, then you will have your answer.

To a VERY passionate UD Football fan like me, that travels all the way from Detroit on a Saturday morning to see the game, (and usually back home after the game), I simply cannot understand why at least half of our basketball fans do not show up for every home football game. I would not be happy averaging 6000 fans a game, but the sad truth is that we do not even come close to that mark.

Over the years, I have seen a ton of football at every level. Today, UD plays at a very legitimate FCS, (formally I-AA), level. I am not kidding when I say that we could have defeated YSU in 2007 and we would have played them very evenly in 2008.

By the way, for anyone that does not understand, we do play Division I football. We play in the Football Championship Subdivision, formally known as I-AA.

Just think, roundball plays Findlay, a Division II school in a preseason game. Attendance? Probably at least 6000 to 8000+. Football plays a Yale or Fordham and we are lucky to see 3000 to 7000.

Playing in the PFL with no access to the NCAA playoffs hurts big time. Winning "PFL Championships" or Gridiron Classics does not build much passion for the program. Heck, just trying to explain what a Gridiron Classic is can be a huge chore. Playing in the NIT or NCAA Tourney tends to build passion. UD has been mired in the fantasy world of the PFL for 16 seasons. During that span we have been to the playoffs ZERO times. This in spite of being ranked in the final top 25 polls in 1996, 1997 and 2007....

Frankly, UD does not help itself at all. National signing day went by on February 4, 2009. Did you happen to catch the Flyers list of signees? Nope, it seems to be a big secret. Sure you can find the Women's Soccer signees and golf signees, but football? No.

As a non-ATHLETIC scholarship program, football does not participate in the NLI program, but that is no reason that kids that have verballed by NLI day could not be announced. If you want to know, you have to search far and wide to dig up information. I have uncoverd maybe five recruits out of a reported 28.... Scheduling is another huge problem.... Word is that we play Urbana again in 2009. Playing bad Division II teams also does not build any passion. Now, getting to the FCS playoffs and competing for a national championship.... I think that just might help....

I also truly believe that many "inside" the program still harbor an odd inferiority complex. We do not give athletic scholarships, so we could not possibly compete with teams that grant 63 of those buggers, (FCS maximum), for a national championship. This in spite of us beating Fordham two years in a row, (about 55 athletic scholarship equivalents). Other PFL teams, (USD, Drake), have recently won regular season games against 63 scholly teams.... Another huge part of the problem is the PFL pretending to be some unique level of college football. THERE WILL NEVER BE A PLAYOFF FOR NON-ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIP FCS teams. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! By the way, did I mention NEVER? Whatever pipe dream that existed back in 1991 has not come to pass. UD and the PFL would do well to simply accept that they are in fact full fledged FCS teams, hire a new commish, and lobby hard for an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs....

Let's see, what happened to volleyball attendance when the team started making appearances in the NCAA tourney? Let's see our Flyers play Northern Iowa in a first round FCS playoff game, and I think you will start to see some passion rebuild for football. Folks still remember the Division III championships and old timers might even remember the Salad Bowl in the 1950's. At the very least, old timers might remember the number of players that went to the NFL....

By the way, lowly Saint Francis University of PA is going to play at Northern Iowa this year. We play Urbana.... I wonder why there is so little passion for UD Football...?

I'll close by saying that if UD cared one iota, they would do something about it..... Have a marketing class and a math class conduct and analyze a survey as to why roundball fans do not seem to care about football. Use the results to develop an action plan. Let's just say that I'm not holding my breath waiting for the results....

ClevelandFlyer05 · #19 02-10-2009, 08:51 PM

Oh boy, they're playing Northern Iowa?! What a coup!

Seriously, if there's never going to be a DI-FCS non-scholarship playoff, then I think the school needs to either: A) add scholarships, or B) drop the football program altogether. No sense in half-assing it (staying in the PFL as a non-scholarship program) or fighting a battle with one hand tied behind our backs (i.e. trying to compete in the playoffs against teams that give out scholarships).

ELDoro · #20 02-11-2009, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Wings In Stripes

I don't buy that. You would support a bad D1-A team ... which is what we would be for a while, over a very good D1-AA team? Not likely. UD Football is fine where it is.

I agree but if you really want Flyer fans converting from to football that is what would have to happen.

ELDoro · #21 02-11-2009, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer

A number of good points / ideas above. Why will 12,000+ show up to see roundball play Coppin State or Bethune Cookman, while less than 4000 show up to see the boys of the gridiron play defending Patriot League champion and fellow A-10 conference member Fordham? Heck, even when Yale came to town, we only had a bit over 6,000 fans show up. It was the first time in history that Yale had ever played a game in Ohio....

The simple answer is that there is no collective, community passion for football. If you can quantify why there is so little passion for UD Football relative to UD basketball, then you will have your answer.

To a VERY passionate UD Football fan like me, that travels all the way from Detroit on a Saturday morning to see the game, (and usually back home after the game), I simply cannot understand why at least half of our basketball fans do not show up for every home football game. I would not be happy averaging 6000 fans a game, but the sad truth is that we do not even come close to that mark.

Over the years, I have seen a ton of football at every level. Today, UD plays at a very legitimate FCS, (formally I-AA), level. I am not kidding when I say that we could have defeated YSU in 2007 and we would have played them very evenly in 2008.

By the way, for anyone that does not understand, we do play Division I football. We play in the Football Championship Subdivision, formally known as I-AA.

Just think, roundball plays Findlay, a Division II school in a preseason game. Attendance? Probably at least 6000 to 8000+. Football plays a Yale or Fordham and we are lucky to see 3000 to 7000.

Playing in the PFL with no access to the NCAA playoffs hurts big time. Winning "PFL Championships" or Gridiron Classics does not build much passion for the program. Heck, just trying to explain what a Gridiron Classic is can be a huge chore. Playing in the NIT or NCAA Tourney tends to build passion. UD has been mired in the fantasy world of the PFL for 16 seasons. During that span we have been to the playoffs ZERO times. This in spite of being ranked in the final top 25 polls in 1996, 1997 and 2007....

Frankly, UD does not help itself at all. National signing day went by on February 4, 2009. Did you happen to catch the Flyers list of signees? Nope, it seems to be a big secret. Sure you can find the Women's Soccer signees and golf signees, but football? No.

As a non-ATHLETIC scholarship program, football does not participate in the NLI program, but that is no reason that kids that have verballed by NLI day could not be announced. If you want to know, you have to search far and wide to dig up information. I have uncoverd maybe five recruits out of a reported 28.... Scheduling is another huge problem.... Word is that we play Urbana again in 2009. Playing bad Division II teams also does not build any passion. Now, getting to the FCS playoffs and competing for a national championship.... I think that just might help....

I also truly believe that many "inside" the program still harbor an odd inferiority complex. We do not give athletic scholarships, so we could not possibly compete with teams that grant 63 of those buggers, (FCS maximum), for a national championship. This in spite of us beating Fordham two years in a row, (about 55 athletic scholarship equivalents). Other PFL teams, (USD, Drake), have recently won regular season games against 63 scholly teams.... Another huge part of the problem is the PFL pretending to be some unique level of college football. THERE WILL NEVER BE A PLAYOFF FOR NON-ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIP FCS teams. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! By the way, did I mention NEVER? Whatever pipe dream that existed back in 1991 has not come to pass. UD and the PFL would do well to simply accept that they are in fact full fledged FCS teams, hire a new commish, and lobby hard for an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs....

Let's see, what happened to volleyball attendance when the team started making appearances in the NCAA tourney? Let's see our Flyers play Northern Iowa in a first round FCS playoff game, and I think you will start to see some passion rebuild for football. Folks still remember the Division III championships and old timers might even remember the Salad Bowl in the 1950's. At the very least, old timers might remember the number of players that went to the NFL....

By the way, lowly Saint Francis University of PA is going to play at Northern Iowa this year. We play Urbana.... I wonder why there is so little passion for UD Football...?

I'll close by saying that if UD cared one iota, they would do something about it..... Have a marketing class and a math class conduct and analyze a survey as to why roundball fans do not seem to care about football. Use the results to develop an action plan. Let's just say that I'm not holding my breath waiting for the results....

As a recent grad of UD I can definately tell you many people I know use the excuse that they don't play any big teams and its isnt scholarship football and that is why they dont care.

chriscage · #22 02-11-2009, 09:06 AM

FACTS:

Below the BCS level typical fans don't have much awareness of college football.

UD won't permit tailgating.

Homecoming has been banned.

The PFL won't allow weeknight games because of "academic" considerations. (So we end up scheduling head-to-head with BCS games.)

None of these circumstances are favorable to Flyer football attendance.

Given these realities, UD must build a sound marketing plan. Each and every home football should be marketed as an event. Our potential is enormous. the Dayton Ohio market population is far larger than college towns like West Lafayette IN (Purdue), Happy Valley (Penn State) and Auburn Alabama. And there is no other college football in town.

Yes, we operate under the massive footprint of tOSU, but that doesn't excuse our weak attendance. The proof...the Dayton Dragons consistently lead the humble "low-A" Midwest (minor) baseball league in attendance...despite proximity to their major league sponsor, the Cincinnati Reds.

Like Detroit Flyer I get all Flyered up for games with big names like Yale and Fordham, but our best attendance has been "The Dayton Classic against D-2 Central State. Apparently Central draws nearly as many fans to that game as does UD. Central's program is improving rapidly. This game has the potential to become a nice rivalry.

This all begs the question...after 100 years of UD football...is the administration willing to invest the resources necessary to agressively promote the sport?

smitch425 · #23 02-11-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by chriscage

FACTS:

UD won't permit tailgating.

Lots of people tailgate at the games. We happened upon one group last year that had a feast fit for a king. Fruit trays, cheese trays...the works.

DetroitFlyer · #24 02-11-2009, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by smitch425

Lots of people tailgate at the games. We happened upon one group last year that had a feast fit for a king. Fruit trays, cheese trays...the works.

Perehaps what he meant is that there is no tailgate specifically for students. When I was at UD from 1980-1984, we had a huge tailgate just for students. $2.00 for the hotdogs you could eat and beer you could drink. The beer was Hudepohl,(sp?), out of Cincy. I never missed one.... It was hard to score a hotdog due to the crowds and cooking time, but the Hudy flowed freely.... Now, with the drinking age firmly at 21, it has become more difficult. The Flyers Club has a tailgate open to the public. $5.00 for the beverage, (beer or pop), and hotdogs, brats, metts or sausage you can eat. It is a GREAT deal. I have personally taken students to the tailgate, (when my daughter was in school). The last couple of years, UD has also begun holding a tailgate. For whatever reason, it has not been very popular....

smitch425 · #25 02-11-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer

The last couple of years, UD has also begun holding a tailgate. For whatever reason, it has not been very popular....

I think the U's tailgate is priced at $8 which is a lot. I believe that they have burgers in addition to the hot dogs which is a step up from the Flyer's Club's menu. You get what you pay for, I guess.

tlangs98 · #26 02-11-2009, 12:51 PM

It would probably take OSU dropping Football along with all television networks deciding not to televise any college football games.

masonflyer · #27 02-11-2009, 01:35 PM

Pardon my ignorance - I thought UD was division 3 since they don't give out scholarships. I thought that Div 1 AA and Division 2 did give out scholarships and that was the difference.

DetroitFlyer · #28 02-11-2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by masonflyer

Pardon my ignorance - I thought UD was division 3 since they don't give out scholarships. I thought that Div 1 AA and Division 2 did give out scholarships and that was the difference.

Yet another indication of the extremely poor job that UD does of promoting the football program.... We have played Division I football since 1993. The reason we left Division III is known as the "Dayton Rule". Basically, the Division III programs at the time did not think it was fair to compete against an essentialy Divison I program like Dayton. The NCAA agreed and said that if you wanted to play football, you had to play at a level of all your other sports. The PFL formed because those schools wanted to keep football, but they did not wish to grant ATHLETIC scholarships.

The football rules for athletic scholarships are as follows:

FBS, (I-A): Must provide 85 athletic scholarships for football. Technically, partial scholarships can be offered, but they count as a full scholarship so no one does that. Unless under penalty, all FBS schools have 85 athletic scholarship players.

FCS, (I-AA). Our Flyers division. Maximum of 63 athletic scholarships doled out to a maximum of 85 players. Of course partial scholarships are offered. There is no minimum number of athletic scholarships. Now, if an FCS team wants to play an FBS team, and the FBS team wants to count the win towards bowl eligibility, the FCS team must offer 90% of the 63 maximum in athletic scholarships, (about 57 atheltic scholarships). That is why YSU can play tOSU and receive $750,000, while our Flyers cannot.... When tOSU defeats YSU, it counts as a win towards bowl eligibility. If tOSU defeated Dayton, it would not count as a win towards bowl eligibility. That is why you virtually never see an Ivy, NEC, Patriot League or PFL team playing an FBS team.

Division II: Maximum of 36 scholarships. No minimum required. The Northeast 10 conference for example offers zero athletic scholarships, and yes they do get invited to the Divison II playoffs. CW Post is a NE10 school.

Division III: No athletic scholarships allowed.

NAIA: 24 athletic scholarships maximum. I do not think there is a minimum.

Here is a well kept secret. The Ivy League and the PFL, both FCS conferences, offer EXACTLY the same type of aid for football players, need based and academic aid. Trust me, there is a reason why Dayton recruits so many great STUDENT/athletes. In fact we have a bit more flexibility than the Ivy League. In the Ivy League an academic index test in employed, (AI). The AI makes sure that the kids coming to play football are in line academically with the rest of the student body. Sometimes this works to the PFL's advantage in recruiting as we do not have an AI. So, a kid with a 3.9 GPA and maybe an ACT of 26 might struggle to get into Yale, but that same kid might qualify for significant academic aid at a PFL school....

Interesting is it not that virtually no one would confuse the Ivy League as a Division III conference, but the PFL still carries that stigma. Of course you will not find the Ivy League playing the likes of Urbana, Tiffin or Central State.... Hmmmmm.................

chriscage · #29 02-11-2009, 05:08 PM

Athletic department officials tell me that tailgating (with alcohol) is not permitted at UD football games! Apparently the Flyers Club is an exception?

DetroitFlyer · #30 02-13-2009, 08:27 AM

Although I have never been to the new tailgate being run by the school, I understand that even they sell beer if you are over 21, ( extra charge over the admission price).

I am 1000% certain that all of the private tailgates are consuming adult beverages if they so desire....

Since I have started attending games in person again back in 2004, I have NEVER even seen any police or security presence at Welcome Stadium looking to prevent tailgaters from consuming adult beverages.

Of course it is not like the tailgates I used to attend at the University of Missouri. Open containers EVERYWHERE and drunks staggering around....

Heck, I have even enjoyed a cold beverage on the visitor's side of Welcome Stadium when I go to visit with the fans of the visiting team.

Perhaps there is an "official" policy, but if so it is not enforced at all....

UDDoug · #31 02-13-2009, 09:36 AM

It would probably take my kid playing for or against UD to get me to a football game. I have absolutely no desire to watch any college football outside of BCS games.

And I think the majority of the populace feels the same way.

Gem City · #32 02-13-2009, 10:40 AM

It would take 63 scholarships and a legit chance to win a I-AA championship. Having said that, if UD wants to increase scholarships they should look into D-I hockey. It wouldn't require nearly as many scholarships and UD could a nationally competitive team on the ice. Not to mention the excitement of bring in teams like ND, Ohio State, Michigan State etc. If Miami OH is a national power in hockey, Dayton could be too.

ClevelandFlyer05 · #33 02-14-2009, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Gem City

It would take 63 scholarships and a legit chance to win a I-AA championship. Having said that, if UD wants to increase scholarships they should look into D-I hockey. It wouldn't require nearly as many scholarships and UD could a nationally competitive team on the ice. Not to mention the excitement of bring in teams like ND, Ohio State, Michigan State etc. If Miami OH is a national power in hockey, Dayton could be too.

Hockey or even lacrosse. Both of these sports attract a decent amount of national attention and in both the small schools are able to compete with the big boys. And like I always say, we need to work on raising our profile in sports like baseball and soccer.

UDan71 · #34 02-14-2009, 04:07 AM

Build a new set of steel stands on the (east?) side of Baujan Field and move the games back to where they were originally played. And where they belong.

Welcome Stadium sucks. Its so spread out that putting 5-6,000 people in the stands still gives the game no atmosphere...certainly nothing rivalling a BCS game. So pack those fans into a much smaller venue. That's what Major League baseball has done over the past 10-12 years, with the return of the smaller, more intimate old-style ballparks that are now so popular

I bet a lot more students would amble over to watch if the games were on campus and the intimate, comfortable atmosphere of that setting would go a long way toward getting people to attend - like in my era (1967-71).

The first objection will be: "not enough parking if on campus". Well, shuttle people from UD Arena, or Fairgrounds lots, or the former NCR property we now own, or the parking lots at NCR's former Old River park.

1) Go BACK HOME to Baujan!
2) Bring in some names consistently, like Fordham, Yale, Georgetown, etc. as a marquee game each year.
3) seek to get a guaranteed tournament bid for PFL Champion to championship I-AA series
4) promote the hell out of the program
5) allow PFL games on Saturday nights

ClevelandFlyer05 · #35 02-14-2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by UDan71

Build a new set of steel stands on the (east?) side of Baujan Field and move the games back to where they were originally played. And where they belong.

Welcome Stadium sucks. Its so spread out that putting 5-6,000 people in the stands still gives the game no atmosphere...certainly nothing rivalling a BCS game. So pack those fans into a much smaller venue. That's what Major League baseball has done over the past 10-12 years, with the return of the smaller, more intimate old-style ballparks that are now so popular

I bet a lot more students would amble over to watch if the games were on campus and the intimate, comfortable atmosphere of that setting would go a long way toward getting people to attend - like in my era (1967-71).

The first objection will be: "not enough parking if on campus". Well, shuttle people from UD Arena, or Fairgrounds lots, or the former NCR property we now own, or the parking lots at NCR's former Old River park.

1) Go BACK HOME to Baujan!
2) Bring in some names consistently, like Fordham, Yale, Georgetown, etc. as a marquee game each year.
3) seek to get a guaranteed tournament bid for PFL Champion to championship I-AA series
4) promote the hell out of the program
5) allow PFL games on Saturday nights

Great points across the board. Playing the game on campus would go a long way to helping to encourage fans (especially students) to go to the games.

FlyerinChicago · #36 02-14-2009, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by chriscage

What would it take to get Flyer roundball fanatics excited about/attending UD football?

What will it take to fill Welcome Stadium for every home game?

Does the "Red Scare" care?

Going division 1 would be a start. Our football program is little more than glorified highschool ball.

ndflyer · #37 02-14-2009, 02:35 PM

after my 4 years and never watching a game, my suggestions if UD doesnt want to offer scholarships is...

1)move closer to campus, bajaun field like posted above
2)tailgating is a necessity. I dont go to osu games just to pay to see football. I go to be with friends and drink and eat and just have fun with the other 105k people there doing the same things
3)make some sort of playoffs that we have heard of
4)Bring in teams we know, jax, sd, are teams so far away that we know nothing about.
5)not having to worry about spirit points

these have all been mentioned but those are things i would have liked to seen

UDBerg09 · #38 02-14-2009, 04:17 PM

The fact this discussion is being had on the men's basketball forum reveals a lot about the situation.

Even UD Pride members -- the biggest UD fans there are -- stay away from the other sport's boards.

I agree with a number of suggestions that have been presented in this thread (playoff, bigger names, on-campus venue), but have to say there are simply a lot of Buckeye nuts and Notre Dame fans on this campus... it's going to take a cold day in hell to get 'em out to Welcome Stadium when "their" team is playing.

It's sad that "their" team can't be at their school, but it is what it is... and the answer isn't going D.I in football, I just don't think the school could support such a program.

UDBrian · #39 02-14-2009, 04:32 PM

Great conversation.

When I attended my first UD football game I was surprised and impressed. When Hoyng threw his first out pattern I knew that he and the team could play football.

There is no question that playoffs and the fight to get into the playoffs draws interest.

What the program needs if for DetroitFlyer to win a huge lottery and gift some of that money to the program. Baujan is a beautiful soccer field and using it for football would impact the soccer programs so I don't think it will happen. I think the idea of having a small stadium on campus is a great one.

I would guess that tailgating is a problem because how does the campus enforce the 21 drinking age. If there were somewhere close outside of the high school and UD domain that might be a better option. If something were to happen because of a drunken student the university would be taken to court, almost no question. Does OSU allow tailgating on their property? There is no question that tailgating would improve the atmosphere of the games.

The university is interested in our ideas, there is no question about that.

The comment about hockey was interesting. I have watched several hockey games at the GUT on UVM's campus, that is a great atmosphere with a building not much bigger than the Frericks Center. College hockey is far superior to pro hockey imho because there is less holding and hooking. The players fly up and down the ice with lots of scoring chances.

ndflyer · #40 02-14-2009, 05:05 PM

Yes there is tailgating at osu on osu property. It goes on right outside the shoe and over at jesse owens field/complex behind the arena. They actually charge a pretty hefty fee to bring your RV, thats more revenue for the university

chriscage · #41 02-17-2009, 11:19 AM

UD Pride posters have offered some interesting observations. Many of our most rabid hoops fans know little about about Flyer football.

I agree. We need to stick with a "mainly" D1 schedule. A tune-up with D2 Central (which is becoming a well-attended tradition) is probably a good thing. And how about a "stretch" game every year with an Ivy or scholly FCS like Youngstown?

We may never capture those who care nothing for college football below the BCS level. But for everyone else we have a truly great program; one of the most winning D1-FCS programs ever.

I can't imagine UD going back to Baujan field. The university has built an enviable complex west of the river including a football practice facility, softball, baseball AND a Marriott hotel.

If we can consistently rank top-30 in D1 bball attendance at UD Arena (while not so consistently ranking top 30 or top 25 in the polls), why not draw well at Welcome? IT IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR!

Yes, Welcome is dreary, but it offers 11,000 seats, great free parking and easy interstate access. If alums, red scare and the athletic department put their heads together, surely we can find a way to offer an exciting experience there. UD ranks high in marketing, communications, business and entrepreneurship. We need to harness all that brain power.

If we don't soon "get with the program", we just may lose this program. Surely the efforts of Harry Baujan, Chuck Noll, Jon Gruden, Mike Kelly and Kevin Hoyng deserve better.

smitch425 · #42 02-17-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by chriscage

If we don't soon "get with the program", we just may lose this program. Surely the efforts of Harry Baujan, Chuck Noll, Jon Gruden, Mike Kelly and Kevin Hoyng deserve better.

Coach Chamberlin

Coach Kelly and Coach Chamberlin are two of the nicest guys anyone could ever meet. The teams they put together consist of fine young men with great goals in life. Many are studying education and pre-med. If anyone is on the fence about whether to attend a game sometime, just think about the people that you would be supporting. These players don't get athletic scholarships to play for the university. They play because they love the game and they believe in the school. I'm sure that some of the BCS players play for their teams with the mentality of where can this team get me instead of where can I get this team. Just something for everyone to think about

UACFlyer · #43 02-17-2009, 11:48 AM

Re Welcome.....I don't see WS as a "dump". A few million has just been pumped into the place for up-grades and improvements at all levels. Are you telling me that there has been no improvement?

With ave attendance of about 4500 we are among the top schools in FCS non schollie football. It could be better with improved marketing by UD, no doubt. But attendance is not bad.

The fact is that UD has a model FCS non schollie football program that ranks among the very best of its type in the country, e.g., with the Ivies and Pats.

Buster Goode · #44 02-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by ELDoro

As a recent grad of UD I can definately tell you many people I know use the excuse that they don't play any big teams and its isnt scholarship football and that is why they dont care.

Bingo. Not sure why it's so hard to understand the lack of interest.

vvflyer40 · #45 02-17-2009, 01:17 PM

I think the key to beginning to draw interest for the UD football program is to figure out a way to get into the national FCS tournament. This doesn't necessarily mean scholarships (Colgate a few years back had a very strong team and no athletic scholarships) this just means getting into the playoffs. Almost every one of those games is shown somewhere on ESPN, whether it be ESPN2, ESPNU, Classic, or ESPN 360. This will lead to better recruting - UD doesn't have a ton of competition for Ohio/western PA/Indiana players, as Ohio has (correct me if I'm wrong) one FCS team (Youngstown State) and now three DII teams (Ashland, Findlay, and Tiffin) UD can certainly attract some recruits away from Youngstown State, between the Catholic roots and the excellent education.

The top programs in FCS are very well attended. Appalachian State drew close to 30,000 last year a couple of times, I believe. Now do I think we could have competed with the Mountaineers? I'm not sure we would be fast enough, but I'd sure like to find out! in 2007 we beat Fordham and they made the playoffs!

DetroitFlyer · #46 02-17-2009, 05:47 PM

Agree 100% on the playoffs. There is only one other FCS team in all of Ohio, Youngstown State. Not sure about Divison II. Urbana is Division II for example.... As for Colgate, it was a great run, but the PL is really not non-athletic scholarship. The type of aid they grant is viewed as athletic scholarship aid by the NCAA. It is referred to as athletic scholarship equivalents. Granted, it is convoluted and difficult to understand, but the PL is not really a non-athletic scholarship league like the PFL and Ivy League. UD has defeated Fordham two years in a row. Fordham is reported to offer about 55 athletic scholarship equivalents.... (Maximum in FCS is 63).

I also agree 100% that UD could compete in the FCS playoffs with ZERO athletic scholarships. Our 2007 team would have done OK given the chance.... Frankly, it is criminal that Kevin Hoyng and company were not given that chance. Gridiron Classic.... Please.... The 2007 game was not even on TV, (unlike the two games played at the NEC Champions sites).

Tearing up Baujan would not be good for soccer. I could see maybe one game per year, wear throwback uniforms, and charge a fortune for tickets, but make sure it is sold out.... I'm also not certain that football would "fit" safely on Baujan anymore.... Still, I am concerned that the grass would not hold up.... I also do not buy the "off campus" thing for a minute. Students and others manage to find their way to the Arena in rain, sleet, snow, hail, gloom of night, well you get the picture. Finding your way to Welcome Stadium on a beautiful fall day is simply not that difficult. One idea? A STUDENT tailgate that is 100% for the students. Free food and soft drinks might entice a few more kids to overcome those hangovers and enjoy a tailgate and game at Welcome Stadium. Yeah, I know, kids will drink adult beverages covertly, things will get out of hand, so it is a bad idea. (See the death of homecoming).

As was mentioned previously, UD certainly has the brain trust and resources to "solve" this problem IF THEY WANTED TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. I honestly believe that UD does not want to raise the profile of football. If football "caught on" again, UD might be forced to spend more money on the program.... We cannot have that when our sole source of revenue is men's basketball. Heck, we have "UD Supporters" already that want to see football killed so basketball can get more money.... You certainly have not heard Tim Wabler say anything about raising the national profile of football.... Now, if the sport is relatively "cheap", volleyball, soccer, etc., no problem in raising the national profile....

UACFlyer · #47 02-17-2009, 06:44 PM

As reported by the NCAA...

1. Only three non-schollie FCS programs average over 10,000 per game; Harvard is in a class by itself at 17,000+, while Penn and Yale draw 11,000+.

2. Morehead State leads the PFL at 4900.

3. UD is 4th in the PFL at 3500+, about 100 less than SD and Campbell.

4. Duquesne, which now offers scholarships averages 1600+. (What is that school thinking offering scholarships.)

There is no doubt that with more aggressive marketing UD could push attendance over 5000; not long ago it was over 5000.

In my opinion, WS with about 8000 in the seats would be an exciting environment for football. A way to pull that off is by giving TX away. On another thread some months ago I mentioned that in the 50s Villanova put about 60,000 in Memorial Stadium for a game with Mississippi;...they gave TX away through a supermarket chain. UD could try something similar through Krogers, e.g., give a pair of TX away with each order over $50, let's say. Distribute about 20,000 TX this way and see how many are used. Perhaps 10% of the TX would be used, adding 2000 to attendance.

A little experimentation like this would soon show what percentage of TX will be used. By linking the give-away to a substantial purchase those who buy TX won't feel short-changed.

I think it's an idea worth trying.

chriscage · #48 02-18-2009, 08:42 PM

UACFlyer,

That's a great idea!

In the 90's Ball State was struggling to reach the required FBS (then 1-A) average paid attendance requirement of 15,000 per game. Tickets were deeply discounted with a minimal grocery purchase in Muncie area supermarkets.

The promotion was aggressively marketed by local radio station WERK and advertised in the supermarkets' full-page newspaper ads. Tailgating tents were set up and free stadium cushions were given away. The event was credited with as much as an additional 2000 attendees per game.

None of the publicity cost BSU one dime.

xubrew · #49 02-19-2009, 12:31 AM

i LOVE fcs football. if a pioneer league team ever were to make the playoffs before the expansion, i think it would be incredibly exciting. it would sort of be like boise state going to a bcs bowl and winning it, but on a smaller scale. still, it would be a big deal.

there are 14 fcs conferences, but only eight can get automatic bids (in 2010 that number will increase to ten). the conferences receiving automatic bids are announced before the season begins. i'm not exactly sure what the criteria is, but a lot of it has to do with past performances and perceived overall league strength. it's kind of difficult to establish yourself as a strong league if you don't have an opportunity to make the playoffs, so it's sort of a catch 22, but it's not impossible.

the great west only has five teams, so they're not eligible for a bid. if any of those schools go to the playoffs it must be as an at-large (which cal poly did).

the ivy league does not participate. the presidents just don't want to. the way it was explained to me is that they like thinking of the ivy league championship as the highest destiation for the schools that play in the league. they don't like thinking of it as a qualifier for something else. i don't know why they have that theory for football and nothing else, but to each their own. still, in 2005 when brown had nick hartigan and Zak DeOsse, they were ranked third in the country and would have contended to win it all. it sucks that they weren't given a chance because the ivy presidents wouldn't let them. even if they don't want an automatic bid they should still give the teams an opportunity to be selected as an at-large. anyways...that's another discussion.

the swac declines their automatic bid because their championship is always on the same day as the first round. it is a historical thing for them, i guess. still, swac teams can make the playoffs, and have done so in the past. it's just that they have to be in a position to get an at-large AND not be playing in the conference championship game.

the meac never used to take bids, but does now. i forget exactly when they started.

so essentially, you have eleven conferences and eight automatic bids. the pioneer league, big south and northeast conference are the two leagues that are generally left out. however, there is reason to hope....

in 2010 the playoffs are expanding to 20 teams. ten conferences will get automatic bids, and the other ten will be at-larges. so, my suggestion would be for the league to schedule nec and big south teams, and make it a point to beat up on them between now and then. now, it's 11 conferences fighting for ten spots. it's already been decided that the northeast and big south conferences will get the bids in 2010, but that doesn't mean the PL can't play it's way into position to get one later on.

even though the PL wasn't awarded an automatic bid, they can still compete for an at-large. i know this is easier said than done, but it's not impossible. in fact, it's something ud can shoot for and possibly rally a lot of excitement and support for because no one has ever done it before. to get serious consideration, it would be like a non-bcs team shooting for a bcs bowl. you would have to finish the season undefeated, and you'd have to beat someone notable outside your conference in the process. fordham finished in the top 25 one of the years you beat them, so doing that and going undefeated may be enough....maybe.

one of the things ud may want to consider (and i know this will upset some people) is the idea of giving youngstown state or wofford or eastern kentucky or one of the teams that traditionally solidly ranked (but not overwhelming) a home basketball game if you can get them on your football schedule. if ud basketball signs a home and home with any of those schools as part of a deal that includes a football home and home, those teams may consider it and would probably do it.

it's never been done before by ud or anyone else in the PL, but i do believe it can be done and will happen one day. i think ud is in a position to go for it and be the first team to do it....IF they make a commitment to it.

Detroit Flyer, I love your posts and insights to FCS football. it's hard to find good discussion about that level of football, so i always stop and pay attention when i see it.