How do you feel about AG?
I think right now we’re all extremely disappointed with the way things ended. Do I think we’re an under achieving program? Absolutely. However, AG did not miss those foul shots. The good- he brought us back with a more than realistic chance to beat St J. The bad- his team’s first half performance brought on the need for a miracle second half. This happens WAY TO OFTEN.
AG is a good man, great representative of the program and pretty good recruiter. (blah, blah, blah). A down year in the A10 is understandable. Not being able to conquer the likes of St Joe’s, Duquesne, VCU and all the other mediocre A10 programs, even with our resources, for well over 20 years is unfathomable.
I think AG is close to retiring. Based on his excellent attributes, I’d give him one more year IF he wants to come back, since he’ll have mostly a complete new team next year, I’d make it clear, NCAA or he’s done next year. No excuses.
Time to move on. Past performance is usually indicative of future performance.
This is a dicey play either way you go.
I believe the whole dam roster needs a make-over just like HGTV. I'm not sure there is any one we need to keep. But can we attract better players? I really don't know the answer to that BIG BIG QUESTION. Our transfer portal history hasn't been that great. On paper yea, but on the court? .... Not. So. Much.
I think VCU has done a tremendous job (especially after their coach left ...what 2 seasons ago?). That is a very quick recovery in my estimation.
UD has not done that well in coaching transitions ... ever! (OK 1 time Blackburn to DD)
So the dicey part if you let AG go (or he wants to step back) what do we end up with 2-3-4 years of rebuild? Does NIL cure this ill? Not with what I've seen out of the portal NIL we spent so far.
IF AG stays we still face a total or near total rebuild as I already stated. We dam well better clean house cause we have no solid core to build around do we?
And there again we have the issue with how poorly we have done in using the NIL $ on transfers. (IF it wasn't for a few players in the past OBi, Homes ll where would our history lie?)
So if AG is gone what is the outcome?
If AG stays (for 1-2 years) what is the outcome?
I guess one could make an assumption that a new coach could have a better ability to bring in better talent using the NIL $ we got, then again no guarantee's right?
A dicey pickle of a situation.
Heh I'm just glad I don't have to make that kind of decision, how about you'al?
I think Covid really F'd up the last 4-5 years of college BB and NIL finished it off. We're now in the infancy of semi-pro, free agency in college sports. I'm aware that NIL changes slightly next year- but considering Dayton's mens BB priorities in the past, I'm not expecting much change- if anything it'll get worse. I've always noticed an emphasis on what the arena sales can do to fund UD sports vs what the University can do to promote and produce a winning product on the arena floor. It's getting to be a tired act to watch. All things considered - as so many have mentioned before, there's really no excuses for continual underperforming. They are choosing this result. If college sports ever gets back to what it was, i'll be a lot less critical and care more. Until that happens, I'll spend my time elsewhere and care even less about what its become.
Very well stated. I put some of my observations in another response below. To prioritize them for next year:
Hit The Portal HARD, focusing on underutilized P4/P5 guys and low-DI all-stars. Guys with something to prove.
Develop a G.D. offense that doesn’t require a Toppin or Holmes to run successfully. We lose our best creator off the dribble in Cheeks and our best outside threat in Santos, both of whom bailed out this year’s offense more times than I can count (and I am an accountant by trade). Who will do the bailing next year?
Sow the seeds with 3-Star and 4-Star HS guys that there are minutes to be had, in a great environment, where they can earn some NIL $, in the 2026-27 season. We need guys with the mindset of a Landers or a Mikesell. Work horses, not show ponies.
Neither of our incoming Fr are 4*s. There's no cavalry coming. No more covid eligibility, demand for players will be high. I expect next year to be mediocre at best without a literal miracle occuring.
No more covid eligibility, demand for players will be high.
I googled this, but I am still confused. When does the extra year of covid eligibility for basketball end? I read a thread where some posters said it was this year, but others said it was next year and would extend to the 2026-2027 season if a player was redshirted.
IMO, this is the last year.
20-21...free year, didn't count towards eligibility
21-22...year 1
22-23...year 2
23-24...year 3
24-25...year 4
If a player took a redshirt year, then 25-26 would be the absolute last year.
https://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?mode=linear&tid=967725&pid=18865420
Players played hard with some grit. Most times we needed a winning play; sometimes we got them. Other times the playing slow dribble show closed the curtains.
It would be a good time to make the break. If we turned over the roster, the only big loss is Frenchie. Whatever the decision, they need to make it ASAP. There is nothing that indicates next year will be better. Let’s say Frenchie plays at nationally recognized level. Marvel is finally healthy and plays at a high level. What then? We don’t have depth. Mali and Bennett are not elite guards in the A10. If they stay, Bennett remains a nice player and Mali will still be frustrating. Frenchie is the one guy who is really tough to replace. If change has to happen, there’s just not much to lose!
In fact next year might as well be year #1 in starting a D1 BB program from scratch. Too many roster holes to fill, too many style of play issues to resolve and the ROI on NIL$ questions to answer.
Find some big strong guards who can finish at the rim or make mid range shots. Find an Erv Giddings/ George Jackson type rebounder. Te mission is limit 2nd, 3rd shots. Get the ball out quickly and someone make a hard cut to the basket.
Regardless of Grant’s status, Neil Sullivan has to justify the ticket and seat license increase…good luck to him.
Whether Grant stays or goes, the roster is in for a major overhaul next season. 3 of our top 5 scorers are definitely gone (Santos, Cheeks, and Key), and a 4th (Smith) is likely gone, as he was recognized on Senior Day. In descending order of returning scoring, we have Bennett (3rd), L’Etang (6th), Jack (8th), Conner (9th), Mousa (10th), and Simon (11th). Allen has yet to see the court, due to injury. Our recruits (so far) are Friery and McKie, both 3-stars. That’s 9 players, with only a few who have been difference-makers on the court for us, at this point. Whoever the coach is, we need to be hitting the transfer portal HARD to pickup at least 3 players who can hit the ground running. That’s a very tall order for a non-P4 program, even with our relative A-10 resources.
For my part, and I know I’m in the minority but, I voted to give the guy 2 more years. My second option was to part ways now. 1 more year would be pointless (as I outlined above), and as much as I like the guy and think he’s a great fit for the University, in a D-I HC position, with all the resources committed to this program, the results haven’t matched the commitment.
Regardless of where you stand on AG coming back or not, I think we can all agree that making the tourney 2 times in 8 years is not what we want and not meeting the University's stated goals.
So my question for those who want to keep AG is what are the other changes that need to happen to make this program more successful?
For me, even if there are other things that could change, I don't see this staff making those changes. They are very set in their ways and have shown no desire to make changes to their system. They are the definition of stubborn, they keep doing the same things over and over again even when it is clearly not working.
Every year we hear the same thing. The universities stated goals is to _______________ (fill in the blank).
And every year, 3 years, 5 years after review and look back most if not ALL those goals are not meet.
You tell me if (for example) OSU never met the goals of their FB team that Day would be kept on. Yea I figured that too!
Regardless of where you stand on AG coming back or not, I think we can all agree that making the tourney 2 times in 8 years is not what we want and not meeting the University's stated goals.
Maybe after another 5 years with similar results we should change the name of the team from the Flyers to the Charity of the Poor.
No matter who the coach is during that time.
As I so eloquently stated above (If I do say so myself ... and I am the only one who will) it is a problem either way as to what is the best course of action. Either way it is a crap shoot for next year and the next year after that.
Everybody hold on to your seats (and I don't mean the arena seats).
I agree that changing coaches can be a crap shoot but you can't let fear dictate decisions that need to be made. You'll never know until you make a move. But I am starting to think that Neil is just waiting for AG to retire, which would make his job much easier. But I sense the clock is ticking with many supporters so he better hope it's sooner than later if that is his strategy. And not for nothing, aren't AD's pretty well compensated to have to make the hard choices??? Don't take a job that you're not willing to do what it takes (legally speaking) to be successful.
Since I went on record with my vote, I’ll go on record with my suggested changes.
First, he needs someone to develop an offense that doesn’t require an All-American post player to be successful. Anyone who knows anything about basketball saw that the 2024-25 team needed to push the tempo to be successful, yet the staff chose to run a “3 yards and a cloud of hardwood” offense, that all too often yielded wild shot attempts with 3 or fewer seconds left on the shot clock. That’s a must, and if he can’t/won’t do it, and we don’t have anyone currently on staff who can do it, then hire someone who can.
Second, I remember not too long ago, the staff was shooting for 4-star and 5-star HS recruits. How many of the guys on this year’s roster fit that description? That tells me that the “swing for the fences” approach with HS recruits way too often resulted in strikeouts. So, for HS guys, put more time into getting good players with upside, not great players looking for a fat NIL paycheck.
Third, when looking at transfers, we generally seem to get better production out of P4 guys who feel undervalued than any other profile. Behind that are guys who blew it up at a lower level. Again, focus on those profiles in The Portal.
Try those approaches for 2 years and see where we are. Absent some major “home runs” through The Portal, next year is almost guaranteed to be down by comparison. It’s 2026-27 that will be “make or break”. It needs to be “make”.
So in two years, if AG is 2-10 in NCAAs, then it's finally time to move on? I mean, how long does a guy get to prove he's not the guy to meet your stated goals, especially when he has a previous record you can review?
This was the problem with hiring him in the first place. No one wants to fire an alumni and a good person, especially one that suffered the tragedy he did. Feel awful for him, I really do. But UD basketball isn't a charity. It's a business. He's getting paid a lot of money to succeed, and not doing so at the stated levels. Frankly, Neil's putting himself in jeopardy to some degree as well by not acting, and waiting an additional two years, if we continue the same, will cost him his own job.
Opt out of the NIT and retire with some coaching dignity. Because one more season like this, his 2020 will be forgotten unless you see it on a Wikipedia page.
This roster is and should be gutted other than 2 guys. Bennett and Frenchie. One because of the heart and hustle and the other because of potential.
What's the risk between Grant trying to fix this problem or a new coach coming in with his immediate transfer guys and starting over? You lose the two guys above? Maybe maybe not.
Grant isn't getting it done. Cut bait and move on. He isn't going to miraculously turn this program into an at large team.
We're so top heavy with Seniors who will likely opt-out that My Team may have no choice.
I can support opting out due to injuries. But if we opt out because the seniors don't want to risk future lower level European League opportunities, this would forever cement this team as my least likable version since the JOB years.
Not sure I could stand another inconsistent game at someone else's home court playing in the NIT.
Unless of course you want the season to last for one more good half of BB! 
It's time for a change.
Made an account to contribute to the fact that I am ready for something different than AG at the helm!
Welcome to the site. Don't hesitate to speak up and provide your thoughts and perspectives.
Stop waiting for AG to retire. Neal should tell him it's time or he'll be fired
I could list 100+ reasons to keep Grant as coach...but if asked to do a list of why he should be let go, there'd be only 1 response..NCAA bids.
Compare that to Archie, where the list to let him go would be unending with the sole reason to keep him being NCAA bids.
But it's time for a change. And Sullivan shouldn't be exempt.
Yes, give me a coach with Grant’s character and passion for all things UD and Archie’s ability to snatch up NCAA bids (but NOT an Archie, who as Devin Oliver said, never unpacks his bags and remains aloof to both community and players). That’s hard to find, but he’s gotta be out there somewhere.
All that said, I’d bet AG is back. And if so, the order ought to be NCAA tourney or it’s over. Going to be an interesting off-season one way or another.
What is Grant's contract status? One year left? Two? No coach ever wants to go into the last season of their contract, and frankly, no recruit is going to ever listen to a coach in the last year of a contract, which means either Grant has to retire on his own, or Dayton will have to pay some kind of buyout. There's no positive outcome to the current situation
This is a great question. It obviously impacts the decision making process. Being a private school may alleviate the likelihood of contract status being a recruiting weapon if the status isn't public record. Of course, other coaches may still know it.
I'm on the fence. The number 3 finish bought an awful lot of goodwill with me. And because I knew AG a little in school, I'm sure I am not unbiased. If not for those two factors I'm sure I would clearly be on the time for a change side.
This year has really been tough. I wouldn't mind if everyone but Frenchie was gone. I absolutely don't want anyone else back as a starter.
I'm ok with AG getting 1, and only 1 more year to reestablish the program. I will feel bad if he is let go for the reasons stated above. I believe we are more likely to find a coach that doesn't move the program forward to finding one that takes us to Number 3. That makes me uncomfortable but I can't take another season like this one.
The NIL and transfer rules are well known at this point. Whether with AG or any coach, a program's direction can be changed quickly. I don't know what to make of the lack of mentions on this board of recruits at the games during the season. I don't know if whoever was tracking that previously is no longer posting on the board, if the staff was unable to get anyone worth mentioning or if the staff recognized the issues with the roster and has made a decision to focus on transfers. If I was AD, that would be part of the decision making on AG's future.
As of now, I don't see a difference making recruit. I only see 1 starter on the current roster and in the current environment there is no guarantee he doesn't transfer. That doesn't bode well for next year. We are going to need to be very successful working the portal regardless of it there is a reduction in number of players that make themselves available. If there isn't a clear path for the off season then we are likely delaying the inevitable by not making the change.
I'm assuming the #3 finish you talk about was the OBI and Co. ranking. Unfortunately that was a loooong time ago in the sports world. It was a magical year, an inspiring year for all UD fans, never to be forgotten. Yet since then the magic has faded only reappearing last year for the briefest of moments with the NCAA 1st round win and the valent effort against AZ.
It seemed with the start of this years surprises (NW, UCONN, Marquette wins for example) that maybe just maybe there was a repeat to the NCAA in store.
Yet the composition of the team and their combined warts showed itself too many times. Combined with the style of play (was it based upon talent on the floor?) and the inability to seem engaged at the start of most games (was it based upon outside factors or coaching styles?) plus what some on this site saw as coaching issues all came to a head by the end of the season.
Frustration took over the fans perspective.
A season at 22-10 could be seen as a 'decent' season. As I've stated before, years ago a 22 win season got you something. Not now. Not good enough especially with aspirations to be better than ... average. $75M to renovate the arena, NIL money going to players, the portal/transfers in/out and being competitive in a changing sports world and all UD seems to be doing is maintaining an average result.
Under AG we have had more season records in the 22+ wins than below that figure, yet the up-hill climb is forever in front of them.
People (fans) are getting tired of being frustrated. And they are taking it out fairly or unfairly on all components of the BB program (players, coaches, AD).
Fans are saying SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE.
And the immediate future (this off season and next year) has too many questions as far as players making a difference coming in and a new style of play will appear.
UD should sleep walk and get 20 plus wins. There's usually 3 toss up games in the OOC and there's no reason they should ever be close to .500 in the A10.
Nothing is guaranteed, but VCU has had multiple coaches and each one has had success. If we can't find the right coach, maybe we need a better administration looking.
I’ve been a fan for well over 50 years. Other than the JOB era, I’ve never been so dissociated from a team as this season. I’ve probably made 10-20% of the posts during the season as in a normal season. (Perhaps many on here consider that a positive this season?!)
I still haven’t figured out if my lack of excitement is due to this team or the overall NCAA men’s basketball landscape (NIL, portal, etc.). This season I cheered mainly for the name on the front of the jersey instead of the name on the back. Again, is that because the current players are mostly rentals or because I never liked the makeup of this team? All I know is something was missing. How much of that falls on AG? One could argue the landscape has shifted so much that he needs some time to sort it out. Alternatively, the resources available to AG dwarf that of St. Joe and George Mason. Yet, here we are.
I’ve been in AG’s camp ever since he got here. It pains me to say it’s time to move on. Yet, here I am.
A final note for AD Sullivan... I’ve been a season ticket holder for more than 25 years. Apathy is far worse than anger/frustration. Apathy leads to canceling season tickets and less $ from large donors. He shouldn’t just assume the current sellout streak is a given. The program is at a crossroads…time to lead.
I agree with your points. The one that has me still on the fence is about the time to figure out the landscape. The Brea transfer needs to be the wake up call everyone needed. That is where I have no problem with 1 more year. Most on the board thought Key was a very good addition and that Conner would be good. Neither really lived up to the billing. Was it fit or bad evaluation?
I do think we are going to have years where fit is a problem in the new normal. If it is periodic, I can live with it. If it is the norm, it shows the inability to adapt.
I'm ok with moving on this year. I wasn't a month ago. I don't advocate it yet but if AG is back, it has to be a coaching for your job year.
I’ve posted a fair number of times this season, but I’m getting to the point where I don’t give a shizzit about college hoops in general anymore.
Used to be, it was fun to watch UNC take on Duke, or Syracuse take on Georgetown because each program had recognizable players and/or coaches. Ewing (like him or not) played 4 years for Georgetown. Roy Williams (like him or not) coached the Tar Heels for a long time. Now, in the era of free agency for all, you never know who is coaching whom from 1 year to the next. Combine that with the “rich get richer” reality that’s now on steroids in the college game, and I’m going to find myself caring about it less than I do MLB (and, other than EDLC, I can’t name more than 3-4 starters for the Reds these days).
While I love Grant and how he represents our Alma Mater, I’m really starting to wonder if he’s capable of succeeding in The New Reality. I know, he didn’t have tons of success in The Old Reality, but I could live with the success we had in 2018-2020. That success has stalled, and it needs a jumpstart, one way or another.
Maybe the University’s goal is to have a great facility, great attendance and great image. Not sure winning is in the top three priorities.
VCU’s goal is to win. If you have been to VCU and the city of Richmond, you may know they will have more draw to many players.
Maybe the University’s goal is to have a great facility, great attendance and great image. Not sure winning is in the top three priorities.
If you don't win, then #2 on your list will definitely go away at some point and #1 won't be needed. You'll be Miami of Ohio at that point.
You'll be UMass, having a beautiful arena they built when they were a national power and average less than 3000 per game.
I should add UMass' attendance could actually get worse in the MAC...yikes!
And let's not forget one of the most important things about UD
The First Four or Big Hoopla or whatever the h**l it's called.
we can't do without that
One tourney appearance every four years is totally unacceptable. Especially when he's had 4-5 NBA players to work with (I'm counting Crutcher and Frenchie). We are a "power" program. We have all the resources, fan support, facilities, and totally underperform on the court.
Never forget this dude lost three buy games in a row! Should've been fired right then and there. Total meltdown after the 2020 run, did not build on it at all. Total meltdown to start Daron's first year. Total meltdown after a solid non-con this year.
For 6/8 years we’ve either fallen flat in non con and made it worse in conference play, or we’ve won a few big ones in non-con only to lay an egg against a bad A10 opponent, ruining what was built upon.
For 75% of coach Grants tenure we’ve had to fall back on winning the A10 Tournament to get in. (Surely next year will be the one!)
I’m tired, boss!
I have always supported AG but I've had enough, and am ready for a change. To summarize what others have said, he's a great guy and is a great representative of the University, but 2 out of 8 simply isn't good enough. Before this year the A-10 Tournament had eight different winners in the last eight years, and we weren't one of them (I know we haven't won it since 2003). There is no reason VCU should be better than us most years. I'm done.
Maybe it is telling that Grant did not recruit very hard. He signed two average HS seniors, and seemed to quit. We had a coach in the past who did that and resigned.
I can’t think of a coach that resigned. Donoher and O’Brien were fired. Purnell, Gregory and Miller left for other jobs.
I'm just a lot less irritated by missing the NCAA tournament than I used to be. I guess it is the malaise of growing old combined with the changing landscape of college BB due to "pay to play"/NIL. I get that a lot of people are way more invested in this, so I won't go out of my way to agitate them with my laid back attitude. I still love going to the home games and just take each season as it comes. I guess it is conceivable to me that my enjoyment of the games could fall lower than my tolerance for ticket cost will allow. But I think that is unlikely while my kids are young and enjoy going to the games with me. When I become an empty nester, that might change.
