Well I can't say that's a loss. If it was an experiment I'd call it a failure.
We seem to have at least one (and sometimes two) players that are a complete waste of time, effort and money on the roster every single year.
At least with Mousa we didn't get two full years of nothing burgers!
I wish him well, but to wax poetic:
I don’t think a kid with so much recruiting acclaim / has ever delivered a performance so woefully lame.
Another bad recruiting decision....out the door.
Lesson in hype for us all. I wish him well. I am a fan of taking some big swings and recognize most won't work out... especially if we will actually be carrying 15.
Moust played like he was afraid of his own shadow on the court. I had hoped he would work his way through it. As the DNPs racked up, it became clear that either he wasn't comfortable enough, talented enough or both. I didn't have a problem with him staying as long as it was a deep bench player if the staff felt he could contribute at some point in the future.
Based on the timid way he played, I have wondered if the move half way around the world was too big for him. It's a gutsy move and for many people would be too much. It wouldn't have surprised me to hear he was moving closer to home. I fully admit, that was purely conjecture.
The timing may be coincidental, but it is certainly suspect that he entered the portal just as the visits started on campus. And further, that the first player in was a wing. It may be that the reality that he would not be able to seriously compete is just now setting in.
Bucketnight: You may be correct. This thread started on 04/12. It is 04/16 and Hamad Mousa’s name is not on the 247 Sports transfer list. He may be moving back closer to home in the Middle East instead of trying to find something at a university in the US. I could be wrong but his name is not showing up on the transfer list.
The people who said they saw the potential and that the game was going to slow down for him . . .
I don’t think anyone has been proven right or wrong. It takes some players longer to adjust to the game, time will tell whether he does.
We get few one year and done players at UD who are at their best at the end of year one. I think Mousa can and will develop. To what extent and how quickly, who knows. I would certainly still use that 14th or 15th scholarship on him, making him basically a glorified walk-on. Obviously others wouldn’t. Reasonable people can disagree.
The only reason Mousa can develop is because he can't get any worse. And it's partially my fault for not telling him to hit the weight room when he signed.
I'd like to blame you King Rollo - but at some point, he should have been able to read the tea leaves. If I were a D1 athlete at the UofD, I'd hit the weight room day one. At least you'd been able to "detect" the improved muscle mass on the bench and when clapping...
It's "possible" that Bennett grows 8", perfects his shot, and goes on to be a dominant NBA HOF player. It is not likely.
As many of us who played basketball have been saying from pretty much the first time we saw Mousa suit up, it's highly unlikely. You can hitch your wagon to that star but I'm certainly not. He's too slow, has little / no handle, his shot is awkward, is weak + has a frame that does not appear that it will accept much muscle.
But besides that, I could see it happening.
I don't know that I saw enough of him to have observed all the things listed above. Remind me again how impressive Kyle Davis was as a freshman. I don't think Mousa is going to turn in to Kyle Davis but kids do develop. I sure am glad Davis wasn't shown the door after a non-existent first year.
Agree... Sometimes folks gotta Match their dreams to reality. Look at Luke Frazier... seven minutes at Dayton turned into being the stud at a D-III school where he got to compete in the D-III NCAAs where he played all 40 minutes. Now granted the crowd for his homegames was not 12,000 nor was his competition VCU or Marquette, but I have to imagine after matching his dream (playing competitively) matched with reality (D-III) he was content. Look at Zimi too. Mousa might just need a lower game level to get up to speed then take off....... or not.
I think you mean Darrel Davis? I remember Kyle Davis throwing down a monster dunk in Maui as a Freshman. Definitely was a statement! Kyle was one of my favorites in the past 15 or so years. No fear in that kid!
You’re right about not meaning Kyle Davis, but definitely didn’t mean DD. I meant Tre Landers and that is an embarrassing mistake.
I think UD is always going to have 2-3 players every year that they take a chance on. Especially in the portal world and now that they can carry a 15 player roster. Obi was one of those players. Some will never turn the page and never contribute. Others will turn the page and find some kind of level to contribute even if it takes 3-4 years. They will consistently improve during their time at UD and hopefully they stay the course. And others will blow up bigger than life like Obi. Unfortunately those in the later category will probably hit the portal and cut all of our hearts out when they do. I’ll call them the jilted lover recruits because that’s what’s coming from most of those players… a trail of jilted fans. I’m not even sure I know what kind of recruit I want us to sign anymore.
I am curious how Mousa's recruitment occurred in comparison to the other players on the team. How much in person recruiting was done and who did it? If anybody has insight to how we recruit overseas, I would certainly like to learn more detail.
I hope that we continue to take some swings on upside potential even if it means a Mousa almost every year. Players 14 and 15 shouldn't be playing unless it is a blowout anyway. Having one of them be a lottery ticket is fine with me. Mousa was at best a redshirt level player too close to the rotation. Most lottery tickets won't work out. If one works out every 3 or 4 years, it will be more entertaining than a parade of walk on level players with a low ceiling.
And had the starters and rotational bench players had been better, the only people that would care Mousa was leaving would be the ones that gleefully swallowed the hype.
Nobody is upset that we swung and missed on a recruit. That's not the topic though saying it might make you feel better about this miss because it distracts from the real point. Landers was an athlete. He didn't appear to be much of a basketball player as a freshman, but he was an athlete for sure. The difference here is that if Mousa is an athlete, it's maybe distance runner or pole vaulter. Maybe a DIII player in a couple years. I see nothing in him physically that would suggest he's a DI player at a higher level.
IMO - UD will have to continue to swing on some “fringe” players every year. 2-3 every year. In hopes that we do hit on one occasionally. We do not have the deep NIL pockets nor the P4 conference status that attract the “sure-bet” players. It’s just a fact. Our coaching staff has to work harder than those schools to find, land and develop players. That too is a fact. And the players have to be willing to put in the extra work - a lot of extra work - to reach their potential. And King Rollo is probably right - that has to start in the weight room. That’s also a fact.
I agree with Gazoo. Nobody is or should be upset we will miss on probably more than we hit on with the last 2-3 scholarships every year. It’s just a fact of reality. And I’m coming to believe the powers at the NCAA really don’t “care” anymore. The courts have ruled. They are tired of paying lawyers and losing. They can’t control or govern anything anymore, so I’m starting to believe they are just letting everything “ride”. And I’m starting to wonder if they know their days are numbered and they are just hoping they can exist for another 5-7 years. After that it’s someone else’s problem.
Fans pay for everything. How long before the fan base is too small to fund anything substantial? I don’t see a recruiting/roster model that gives me hope anything is sustainable, even for the P4 schools. And if it comes down to picking sides, my gut tells me fans/alums “save” football before they save college basketball. Sorry for the doomsday post - and the hard left turn off-topic.
Does it make sense now to give less scholarships and concentrate the NIL money on fewer players in hopes of getting a higher-level player with more money? Most teams have rotations of 7-9 guys at most anyway and nobody is really developing players for the future anymore because the transfer portal has essentially made rosters year to year. Injuries obviously could hurt if you're not deep enough but I think it would be worth the risk.
I would not be surprised to start hearing about longevity bonuses and player options. (e.g. a player opts to stay s/he gets a $$ bonus)
Different pots of money. The scholarship comes from the school. NIL, by definition comes from third parties not officially affiliated with the school. I have always believed that a scholarship doesn't really "cost" the school anything, certainly not dollar for dollar. Rather they just keep increasing tuition to make up the difference.
Different pots of money. The scholarship comes from the school. NIL, by definition comes from third parties not officially affiliated with the school.
Different pots for now, they are very close to letting the schools pay the players directly.
But I just mean in general, if you have less scholarship players who are looking for NIL money, you can condense what you have to less players and be able to pay them more.
Isn't another way to say the same thing," if you have fewer good players, you can pay the good ones more?" I am not sure that math will work out at the end of the day because I think any kid you want/need on your team could probably get something somewhere and therefore will.But I just mean in general, if you have less scholarship players who are looking for NIL money, you can condense what you have to less players and be able to pay them more.
Even after the schools can pay the players directly, NIL will still be a separate pot. To use an NBA comparison, the Pacer's pay Obi a salary, (his cut of the team revenue so to speak), and Nike/Jordan pay him to wear their stuff (and maybe do some promotions in the Indy market, I don't know), this is the NIL portion. It is paid by a third party and separate from the "salary."
You think so?Even after the schools can pay the players directly, NIL will still be a separate pot. To use an NBA comparison, the Pacer's pay Obi a salary, (his cut of the team revenue so to speak), and Nike/Jordan pay him to wear their stuff (and maybe do some promotions in the Indy market, I don't know), this is the NIL portion. It is paid by a third party and separate from the "salary."
After the schools are able to pay the players directly, I think NIL basically disappears and all the $ just goes into one pot.
If Dayton 6th has $3 Million to spend in a season (just using an arbitrary number) and we have 13 players on scholarship who expect NIL money, that NIL money gets split between 13 players (obviously not evenly but still out of the same pot). If we only have 10 players on scholarship who expect NIL money, doesn't it mean you would have more to spend on those 10 players, especially the higher-level players?
Ok, I see your point and it’s a really good question but my point is still: consider the practicality of this. “Hey we’ve got three open scholarships, but we’re not giving you one, we are literally just not going to use it, and also we don’t want you to dip into the NIL pool (implicit in the non scholarship), but we’d love for you to come and play at Dayton.” I just don’t think you want the kid who says “where do I sign?” to that offer. Notable exceptions: Brady Uhl, and others like him who have dreamed from birth of playing at UD and who maybe have some family money so the scholarship isn’t as big a deal, nor the NIL. With that said, I can’t imagine denying Uhl a scholarship which he absolutely earned on the court. I don’t know the kid but I imagine earning a basketball scholarship to UD is probably one of the proudest moments of his young life.
I say recruit the 15 best players you can that complement each other and the system.
I guess in my example you wouldn't tell someone you want them but we can't give you a scholarship. You would just limit how many scholarships you give out and have to share the NIL money between less players. If you still want to have some pure walk-ons who don't get any NIL up front you could still do that. They could then still earn some NIL (which is what NIL is supposed to be anyway) through appearances paid for by a company/organization, trading card sales, jersey sales, etc. They just wouldn't be guaranteed any money like most (all except foreigners?) scholarship players.
I still don’t understand the thing about foreign players not being able to get NIL. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
It has to do with their F-1 student visas and limitations on their ability to earn money. They can, however, earn NIL money when they are outside of the US.
Thanks Swampy. Do you know if the same rules will apply to the revenue share if/when that comes?
As I understood it, the same rep/ agent represented Mousa and Frenchie.
The staff probably has limited budget to make overseas visits, so they have to rely on local knowledge of the agent.
UD batted 50%. Honestly, I am ok with that.
That rep/agent fooled a lot more people than just UD, although we were the ones who took the chance.
