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  #601  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
In the first half of game 5, Obi was 0-2 from the field but grabbed 3 rebounds. We'll see if Thibs goes with Randle and Toppin together in the 2nd half.
I’m pretty sure Obi hit a 3 his first shot from out front. But then I think he missed two from the corner???
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  #602  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:34 PM
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The Knicks are tired. I saw Rose drive the lane and score. Fall down under the basket and when he got up he could hardly run back down the court. The effort to get to the basket took all his energy. Randle is spent too. All the hustle plays going to Atlanta. I’d hate to see the rebounding stats. It doesn’t help all the Knicks players stand around the 3 pt line on offense and when they miss (often) there is no one to rebound. Atlanta is going to have to go ice cold for the Knicks to extend their season.
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  #603  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:36 PM
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Yes I know Thibs took the Knicks from a .318 regular season winning percentage last year to a .569 this year, but the guy looks clueless coaching and trying to motivate his team in the playoffs. The lack of ball movement is disgusting, wake me up if the Knicks wake up.
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  #604  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:42 PM
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Obi trying to bring the NYK back:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...66591523246080

Later Obi missed a jumper. He finishes with 2 points and 3 rebounds in 10 minutes.

Wait 'til next year.

Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 06-02-2021 at 09:49 PM..
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  #605  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:43 PM
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Well the second team starts the 4th and look at that, they’ve cut into the lead. Down 9 now and this group looks like they at least have a pulse and a chance to score. They are at least bringing some hustle. Go Knicks.
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  #606  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Well the second team starts the 4th and look at that, they’ve cut into the lead. Down 9 now and this group looks like they at least have a pulse and a chance to score. They are at least bringing some hustle. Go Knicks.
and just like that Obi is on the bench and the Hawks extend the lead back to 16
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  #607  
Old 06-02-2021, 09:58 PM
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Knicks guards make too many turnovers. 19 pt. lead is the largest of the game! Obi only got about 8 minutes total. His nifty drive to the basket for two points cut the lead to single digits and a minute later he misses a 15 footer from the base line and comes out so Randle can come back in.
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  #608  
Old 06-02-2021, 11:30 PM
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This seems to be a pattern with the coach. Teams do well in regular season and then fall on their face in the layoffs. Now we know why.
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  #609  
Old 06-02-2021, 11:45 PM
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Why is Obi Toppin standing in the coffin corner on every offensive possession. He needs to be running toward the rim for entry passes, back doors, alley-oops, and getting outlet passes on defensive rebounds/transition. Obviously its by design. You dont buy Seattle Slew and then stick him in a barn. I realize everybody in the NBA likes to shoot threes and guys are spreading the court, but you design an offense that exploits everyone's strengths too. That ain't what Obi's strength is. He plays above the rim and on the Autobahn.
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  #610  
Old 06-02-2021, 11:45 PM
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As I predicted, Randle flames out and the Knicks go down with him.
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  #611  
Old 06-03-2021, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Why is Obi Toppin standing in the coffin corner on every offensive possession. He needs to be running toward the rim for entry passes, back doors, alley-oops, and getting outlet passes on defensive rebounds/transition. Obviously its by design. You dont buy Seattle Slew and then stick him in a barn. I realize everybody in the NBA likes to shoot threes and guys are spreading the court, but you design an offense that exploits everyone's strengths too. That ain't what Obi's strength is. He plays above the rim and on the Autobahn.
Actually Seattle Slew was one of the greatest sires. So buying him(when he was alive) and sticking him in the barn with a good dam is exactly what you do.

Just sayin.
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  #612  
Old 06-03-2021, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Actually Seattle Slew was one of the greatest sires. So buying him(when he was alive) and sticking him in the barn with a good dam is exactly what you do.

Just sayin.
you're talking post Triple Crown
pretty sure the person meant:
you don't buy Seattle Slew and not race
the horse...

Seattle Slew, was purchased for just
$17,500.. during practice runs, the
horse was found to fly like the wind..

none of the history making would of
been done had the horse been left in
the barn...http://www.espn.com/classic/biograph...%20%2417%2C500.
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  #613  
Old 06-03-2021, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
you're talking post Triple Crown
pretty sure the person meant:
you don't buy Seattle Slew and not race
the horse...

Seattle Slew, was purchased for just
$17,500.. during practice runs, the
horse was found to fly like the wind..

none of the history making would of
been done had the horse been left in
the barn...http://www.espn.com/classic/biograph...%20%2417%2C500.
Yep, and it really shouldn't be that difficult to understand the comparison Chris was making.
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  #614  
Old 06-03-2021, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Yep, and it really shouldn't be that difficult to understand the comparison Chris was making.
Just sayin!!!! I found it ironic that he pulled a horse, a great horse and a great sire that was great in the barn, from the same era as Secretariat, who was lousy in the barn.
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  #615  
Old 06-03-2021, 08:41 AM
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Let's just sum it all up with the fact that Obi's talents are not being used by Tibs. And that the Knicks showed last nite that Tibs is not the great coach everyone seems to think he is. Defensive great? I don't think so. Offensive weak? That is the understatement of all time.

I was totally disgusted with the coaching last nite and how Obi was being used was the smallest part of it.
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  #616  
Old 06-03-2021, 09:05 AM
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Before we get too critical of Tibs, remember he got them to the playoffs. Step 1. His predecessors failed at that goal. Best Knicks team in a while.

The offense leaves a lot to be desired, but that might also be a function of the maturity of the players. How many times did they not pass to the open man?

The playoffs were a bust simply because of a very poor performance by Randle. I suspect he was tired from too many minutes. The other problem was Trae Young. Knicks had no answer for him. Talk about Obi defense, but there was no answer for Young by the guards. Young and Morant are two of the best young guards in the league.

Yes, Obi as a decoy in the corner seems like a waste of talent. Obi made improvements as the year progressed. Let’s see what happens during the off-season. I have a feeling his role might change next season.
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  #617  
Old 06-03-2021, 09:06 AM
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Was it Kenny? who did the half-time analysis of the Knick offense? He summed it up well. He ran video from the first half of Randle taking heavily contested, fade-away jumpers from 20 feet. Horrible shot selection. That is what the Knicks offense boils down to. They try to force too much through Randle, and he does not pass away from bad shots. The head coach ought to be all over that, but it is tolerated.

The Knicks have terrible motion and ball movement. They don't know how to work for good shots. Locking Obi in the corner, where he just stands around hoping for a pass is a symptom of a much larger problem in the horribly conceived Knicks offense.

If the UD Flyers made Obi stand in the corner for threes, he would have been an average player.

Last edited by Fudd; 06-03-2021 at 09:12 AM..
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  #618  
Old 06-03-2021, 09:38 AM
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right, the Knicks lost because of no offense
other than pass the ball into Randle, for
one on one and contested shots... passing
around for 3pters but no set plays in any
way, shape or form....

it wasn't just a bad performance from Randle,
it was a bad performance from all starters
not named Derrick Rose...

and then, at the same time, put a high flying
talent like Obi in the far corner for 3pters..
let him start the 4th quarter, they cut the lead
to single digits (9), then lets put him on the
bench... wonderful... horribly misused talent
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  #619  
Old 06-03-2021, 11:47 AM
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Imagine what it would look like having Obi on the court with Luka and the Mavs...
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  #620  
Old 06-03-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
Imagine what it would look like having Obi on the court with Luka and the Mavs...
Imagine playing with a real scorer who knows how to distribute the ball. The Knicks have neither.
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  #621  
Old 06-03-2021, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivan View Post
Imagine what it would look like having Obi on the court with Luka and the Mavs...
Or Young in Atlanta who can drive the lane and dish to guys jumping at the rim.

I didn’t see a lot of Knicks games this year, but when I did, it seems Obi is pretty good shooting 3s from out front and not so much from the corner. So if you need him to score 3s, why not play him out front and have him sets some screens and occasionally roll to the basket to keep defenses honest to open up his 3s.

I think Obi had a decent year considering what was ask of him. Certainly not great, but I’m sure he was professional, worked harder than any player on the team, was a great teammate, put effort into doing exactly what his coaches were asking him to do, and contributed when he could under the constraints and adjustments to the pro game. Super proud of how he carried himself. Better years will come. Better opportunities will come. And our guy will be ready.
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  #622  
Old 06-06-2021, 08:17 PM
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One basketball columnist said Obi was "disappointing." Another article had the Knicks packaging "young talent" including possibly Toppin in a trade package to move up and get a point guard. In the few Knick games I watched, I did not think that coaches were really bringing out his talent. The running and standing in a far corner was a waste of his talents.
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  #623  
Old 06-06-2021, 11:25 PM
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There's no doubt Obi has to improve on D. He got better throughout the year but definitely needs more. Offensively, the Knicks are just offensive. They are not set up to allow Obi to succeed in the way he plays. Thibs reminds me of many coaches who don't tailor their game plan to the talent they have, insisting on fitting square pegs into round holes. I think Obi can be successful in the NBA if he continues to work on his defense and his outside shooting, as well as getting stronger and working more post moves. But he'll likely not be successful if the game plan is to have him go hang out at the 3 point line on each possession.
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  #624  
Old 06-07-2021, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
There's no doubt Obi has to improve on D. He got better throughout the year but definitely needs more. Offensively, the Knicks are just offensive. They are not set up to allow Obi to succeed in the way he plays. Thibs reminds me of many coaches who don't tailor their game plan to the talent they have, insisting on fitting square pegs into round holes. I think Obi can be successful in the NBA if he continues to work on his defense and his outside shooting, as well as getting stronger and working more post moves. But he'll likely not be successful if the game plan is to have him go hang out at the 3 point line on each possession.
I hope in 3-4 years from now we are all saying, “That time Obi spent with the Knicks really helped him get a good foundation on how to play defense in the NBA and helped make him the superstar we all knew he could be...”

I doubt Obi wasted this year. He’s always appeared to be a player that soaked up everything coaches were giving him. Maybe he gets traded and maybe he doesn’t. Being traded can be a great thing for a player. And I agree. If the Knicks offense is what it is....there is no reason to keep Obi. There are guys who can knock down a corner three at a higher percentage. Obi will get better at it, but i would think the Knicks want/need that guy now, and they are readily available.

The “funny” thing is Obi mostly subbed in for Randle and yet they didn’t really play the same position in the offense. Randle was out front. I found that very odd because if Obi would have “played the position Randle played” in the offense, I believe it would have given him a chance to use more of his skills.
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  #625  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:18 AM
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The Knicks are reportedly going hard after Portland's guard Damian Lillard in trade efforts. It will be interesting to see which young players the Knicks are willing to ship to the Great Northwest.

Funny read as it does not appear Elfrid Payton, Jr. will be resigning with the team:
https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/elfrid...ards-benching/

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Old 06-07-2021, 08:35 PM
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Coach T wins NBA Coach-of-the-Year. Not bad for someone who so many around here think is clueless.
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Old 06-07-2021, 08:41 PM
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Obi makes every coach look good.

Figgie - any other player go from a college COY to a pro COY in consecutive years?
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Old 06-08-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Coach T wins NBA Coach-of-the-Year. Not bad for someone who so many around here think is clueless.
Well, winning coach of the year is based more on improvement from the previous year and not necessarily how good an offensive coach you might be.

Hitler was Time Magazine’s man of the year in 1938 - we all know how wrong that assessment was…
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Old 06-08-2021, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Well, winning coach of the year is based more on improvement from the previous year and not necessarily how good an offensive coach you might be.

Hitler was Time Magazine’s man of the year in 1938 - we all know how wrong that assessment was…
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Although in defense of Time, and I don't defend them often, they didn't bestow that upon him as an honor but because he was the newsmaker who most influenced world events for better or worse. In Hitler's case for worse, much worse.
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Old 06-08-2021, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Well, winning coach of the year is based more on improvement from the previous year and not necessarily how good an offensive coach you might be.

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You say that as if 'winning' is less important than scoring.
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Old 06-08-2021, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
You say that as if 'winning' is less important than scoring.

I think what some people are saying is think how much better the Knicks could be if Thibs knew his azz from a hole in the ground when it came to offense.
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Old 06-08-2021, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I think what some people are saying is think how much better the Knicks could be if Thibs knew his azz from a hole in the ground when it came to offense.
Or, more likely, UD fans think Obi should have played 30 mpg. Reminds me of CYO moms...

Obi's time will come...he has a ton to learn. And he will.
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  #633  
Old 06-09-2021, 12:39 PM
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Tibs deserves coach of the year. The results prove that. He would not have been close if the Derrick Rose trade occurred. Rose changed the dynamic of the team.

Tibs got the team to the playoffs, but failed to advance.

I think it is OK for casual fans to criticize Tibs offense as the pick and roll play does not seem to exist in the playbook. Finishing second last in the league in assists shows the weakness of the offense. The one on one play with defense emphasis got them to the playoffs but no further. The Hawks showed how easy it was to shut it down in the playoffs.

I think it is silly to criticize fans who can obviously see an offense that lacks ball movement and the opportunity to play better team ball. Would Obi have gotten more playing time if the offense moved liked Grants? Maybe….

In the playoffs, Tibs seemed to give up on Randle at times and upped Obi’s playing time. Obi responded OK and had some moments, but he probably would not have changed the outcome.

Fans know that Obi can thrive in pick and roll big time. Why not try to use one of the most effective offensive plays in basketball? So, I can understand their frustration. With respect to the offense, I think many have a legitimate complaint.

With respect to getting to the playoffs for the first time in a while, I tip my hat to Tibs.
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Old 06-09-2021, 01:46 PM
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he overused Randel to the point of being
nothing near what he was during the season..
and should of been giving more minutes to
Obi....

but, I am not a Knicks fan... I am an Obi fan
and apologize to no one for how I feel.. not
saying he deserved 30 minutes like Team
Exaggeration posted earlier...

but he should of realized he was wearing
Randel down.. just my .02c
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  #635  
Old 06-09-2021, 03:00 PM
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The Hornets, Bulls and Raptors averaged 7 ppg more than the Knicks and didn't make the playoffs. The Pacers - who fired their 1st year coach today - averaged 11 ppg more than the Knicks and didn't make the playoffs.

Maybe they all need a more defensive-minded coach because, obviously, defense matters.

FWIW, every NBA player is an offensive stud so scoring more per game isn't that tough of a proposition if you just unleash them and hope to outscore you opponent. I'm glad that Tibs emphasizes defense. With a little work and time, Obi will be a free agent who will command alot of money...but only if he plays defense, too.
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Old 06-16-2021, 11:28 AM
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:35 AM
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Good article analyzing each rookie's season
https://sny.tv/articles/analyzing-kn...rookie-seasons
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Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM
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Defense is very, very important.

There are lots of very good players on winning teams who give up lots of points. NBA games are not in the low 50 point range like a number of A10 games.

Last, Anthony Davis scored 42 points one game against the NBA defensive player of the year Rudy Gobert. I see lots of great defenders burned constantly.

Last night Clippers scored 131 points without their best player!

I've seen lots of weak defensive plays on NBA courts and I think other NBA players might be given the hall pass that Obi did not receive.

Again, great, great credit to Tibs, because defense, Randle and Rose made the Knicks their best season in years. Tibs emphasis on defense was very good for Obi. Tibs lack of pick and roll in the offense was very bad for Obi.

One of Obi's challenge is he is a bit of a tweener. Not enough bulk to handle the 7 footers wide bodies and not quick enough to guard the speedy players.

Obi is one of the hardest workers you will ever see. I guarantee there will be improvement across the board by Obi next year. He will take the tough love from the coach and use it well.
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Old Yesterday, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Defense is very, very important.

There are lots of very good players on winning teams who give up lots of points. NBA games are not in the low 50 point range like a number of A10 games.

Last, Anthony Davis scored 42 points one game against the NBA defensive player of the year Rudy Gobert. I see lots of great defenders burned constantly.

Last night Clippers scored 131 points without their best player!

I've seen lots of weak defensive plays on NBA courts and I think other NBA players might be given the hall pass that Obi did not receive.

Again, great, great credit to Tibs, because defense, Randle and Rose made the Knicks their best season in years. Tibs emphasis on defense was very good for Obi. Tibs lack of pick and roll in the offense was very bad for Obi.

One of Obi's challenge is he is a bit of a tweener. Not enough bulk to handle the 7 footers wide bodies and not quick enough to guard the speedy players.

Obi is one of the hardest workers you will ever see. I guarantee there will be improvement across the board by Obi next year. He will take the tough love from the coach and use it well.

I would change that to read "lack of an offense."
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