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  #1  
Old 05-23-2022, 09:54 PM
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Dayton-Wyoming... United Center... December 17th

Awesome Game!

Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein

NEWS: Dayton will play Wyoming and NC State will face Vanderbilt as part of a new annual event on December 17th at the United Center in Chicago, according to multiple sources.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/sta...15039310200834

Wyoming is fantastic
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  #2  
Old 05-24-2022, 04:10 PM
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Is this the only game we know about other than @Va Tech and The B4A?

IIRC SMU and Ole Miss H&Hs ended last year.
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Old 05-24-2022, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Is this the only game we know about other than @Va Tech and The B4A?

IIRC SMU and Ole Miss H&Hs ended last year.
Yes sir
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Old 05-24-2022, 04:39 PM
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Wonder if this is it for road/neutral games
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Wonder if this is it for road/neutral games
Very likely. As well all know, we have never played 15 road/neutral games.
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Very likely. As well all know, we have never played 15 road/neutral games.
Right. As it stands now we would play only 14 road/neutral games. Having that one extra home game will probably cost us a bid to the NCAA.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
Right. As it stands now we would play only 14 road/neutral games. Having that one extra home game will probably cost us a bid to the NCAA.
If you are satisfied with the current schedule, then God love ya, and there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. We should be aiming higher.

I can't believe how people just blindly accept whatever schedule UD puts together, they seem to think that UD is some sort of master of scheduling. Here's a newsflash: they aren't.

UD is no better at scheduling than the vast majority of other schools, UD is totally average in this regard, there is nothing notable about our approach to scheduling. We never go above and beyond and really try to put together a more challenging schedule.
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Old 05-25-2022, 07:53 AM
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Here we go.
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  #9  
Old 05-25-2022, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
If you are satisfied with the current schedule, then God love ya, and there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. We should be aiming higher.
I'm all about UD fans having higher expectations for the program. I think too many are too content to accept mediocrity and throw out excuses for why UD can't compete on a national level.

But your scheduling argument is dumb, and it seems to imply that there are a number of amazing options that UD passes on every year for whatever reason. It just isn't true. It takes 2 to tango, and there is no magic that UD can unilaterally employ that will change that.

Plenty of stuff within the program's control you can critique, but Neil clearly puts in work to get the schedule filled out in a way that gives the school a shot at an at-large. They were lined up for a 1 seed just a couple of years ago - you don't get that with a weak schedule.
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2022, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
I'm all about UD fans having higher expectations for the program. I think too many are too content to accept mediocrity and throw out excuses for why UD can't compete on a national level.

But your scheduling argument is dumb, and it seems to imply that there are a number of amazing options that UD passes on every year for whatever reason. It just isn't true. It takes 2 to tango, and there is no magic that UD can unilaterally employ that will change that.

Plenty of stuff within the program's control you can critique, but Neil clearly puts in work to get the schedule filled out in a way that gives the school a shot at an at-large. They were lined up for a 1 seed just a couple of years ago - you don't get that with a weak schedule.
I definitely contend that we pass up opportunities every year to add some tougher games for various reasons such as the dates don't work, no return game at UD, we are worried about taking a flier against an opponent who may not have a good year, etc. We could totally add some more tough games every year, but we have certain parameters that we demand be met, and we are not willing to vary from those parameters. And of course, we have to have at least 16 home games because $ is more important than anything else to UD.

They got a 1 seed because they had one of the best seasons in school history, not because the schedule was abnormally good or above average. That was a totally average schedule that year, nothing special about it. The 3 exempt tourney games plus SMC and Colorado on a neutral court.

The fact that we have never played 15 r/n games ever is a totally deliberate, conscious decision. We have absolutely had the opportunity to do that many times against quality opponents, likely every year, but we chose not to do it, and then we complain about our seed in the ncaat and/or whine that nobody will play us.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I definitely contend that we pass up opportunities every year to add some tougher games for various reasons such as the dates don't work, no return game at UD, we are worried about taking a flier against an opponent who may not have a good year, etc. We could totally add some more tough games every year, but we have certain parameters that we demand be met, and we are not willing to vary from those parameters. And of course, we have to have at least 16 home games because $ is more important than anything else to UD.

They got a 1 seed because they had one of the best seasons in school history, not because the schedule was abnormally good or above average. That was a totally average schedule that year, nothing special about it. The 3 exempt tourney games plus SMC and Colorado on a neutral court.

The fact that we have never played 15 r/n games ever is a totally deliberate, conscious decision. We have absolutely had the opportunity to do that many times against quality opponents, likely every year, but we chose not to do it, and then we complain about our seed in the ncaat and/or whine that nobody will play us.
As I ask every year and you have NEVER been able to answer... Please show me a year our non-conference schedule has kept us out of the tournament? I'll wait again.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I definitely contend that we pass up opportunities every year to add some tougher games for various reasons such as the dates don't work, no return game at UD, we are worried about taking a flier against an opponent who may not have a good year, etc. We could totally add some more tough games every year, but we have certain parameters that we demand be met, and we are not willing to vary from those parameters. And of course, we have to have at least 16 home games because $ is more important than anything else to UD.

They got a 1 seed because they had one of the best seasons in school history, not because the schedule was abnormally good or above average. That was a totally average schedule that year, nothing special about it. The 3 exempt tourney games plus SMC and Colorado on a neutral court.

The fact that we have never played 15 r/n games ever is a totally deliberate, conscious decision. We have absolutely had the opportunity to do that many times against quality opponents, likely every year, but we chose not to do it, and then we complain about our seed in the ncaat and/or whine that nobody will play us.

Are you proposing that the athletic department runs on pixie dust?
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:34 AM
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I don't really like or trust "BPI" but this is the only metric I could find that has past SOS rankings for non-con only.

21-22: 59
20-21: unpublished (C-19 year)
19-20: 129
18-19: 60
17-18: 118
16-17: 56
15-16: 45
14-15: 34
13-14: 44
12-13: 219
11-12: 211
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Are you proposing that the athletic department runs on pixie dust?
He has said in the past they should raise the price of season tickets to make up for one fewer home game. My reply was that is easy for him to say - he is not a season ticket holder. He probably has no clue what season tickets, and the seat license fee, cost now.
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
They got a 1 seed because they had one of the best seasons in school history, not because the schedule was abnormally good or above average.
How do you think every school gets a 1 seed? Nobody gets it on schedule alone, but you can't run the table with a bad schedule and get it (and we didn't even run the table, mind you). We weren't disqualified as a non power school from it, even with multiple losses, and that's because the schedule was built in away that provided a ceiling of a 1 seed. That's all you can ask for!
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:52 AM
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Year in and year out our OOC schedule is a positive for our ability to Dance. Win 10 or so and it is a positive assuming no bad losses, like last year. Our love affair with the ESPN tournaments helps. A-10 is what its is, normally good for 2-3 bids. If we hadn't had the brain fart in games 2-5, we would have danced. Even then we were one upset away from dancing. It is important to have a good OOC, the A-10 has limited upside. Having upper level P5 schools visit the Arena would be great, figuring out how to do that is problematic.
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Old 05-25-2022, 02:41 PM
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I guess I would like to know what opportunities we are turning down. Is UCLA offering a one way that we keep turning down? I echo the folks that point out that the OOC SoS has never during my fanhood, kept us from dancing, which is to say we had the record, conference performance, etc... but the lack of quality opponents in the OOC kept us out.

I can think of three schools off the top of my head (OSU, Duke, Pitt) who have said at one time or another that they will never play at UD Arena again, coaches leave so maybe that isn't currently the state of play but it has been at various points.

The solution to all of this is winning of course. We need to get to the point where teams can be certain that UD won't be a "bad loss" and that comes from consistent winning. Until we get to that point we will always have this issue.
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Old 05-25-2022, 03:15 PM
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Maybe we are reading UD2 all wrong

He just wants a tougher schedule at home and away ....

He doesn't worry about the chances for an NCAA at-large bid since if we only scheduled tougher we would always be in the NCAA ....

But then again who knows?

I've compiled this list of the last few years (back to 2000) and admittedly it may have some errors (I used Wikipi and UD Media Guide to try to put some numbers to what UD has done schedule wise when we have been invited to the NCAA:
  1. Year Seed Record Non-Conf Away
  2. 2000 #11 ... 22-9 .... 12 .... 6
  3. 2003 . #4 ... 24-6 .... 11 .... 4
  4. 2004 #10 ... 24-9 .... 13 .... 6
  5. 2009 #11 ... 27-8 .... 15 .... 7
  6. 2014 #11 .. 26-11 .... 15 .... 6
  7. 2015 #11 ... 27-9 .... 12 .... 5
  8. 2016 . #7 ... 25-8 .... 12 .... 4
  9. 2017 . #7 ... 24-8 .... 12 .... 5

Based on this list we aren't doing too shabby as far as numbers (seeding) are concerned. The away games tend to be largely the contribution of early season tournaments (where we do have exposure to highly ranked teams).

Take for instance Kansas in the last couple of years. Played then toe to toe in Hawaii then beat them in Orlando.

Now wouldn't it be great if we could get a home and home with Kansas? But do you think the Jay Hawks would be willing to visit us? I'm sure they would be willing to have the Flyers at their place! Our place .... not so much!

But the question remains if we HAD a tougher schedule away would we be seeded as high (or not) if we lost the majority of those tougher away games. Would we even be considered an at-large candidate?
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Old 05-25-2022, 03:33 PM
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Actually Neil is doing it just right IMO. He’s getting us in the best early season tourney where we will get at least 1 and probably 2 Q1 games. We then have a very good neutral site game against Wyoming that will also, in all likelihood, be a Q1 game. Add in the away game at Va Tech and that gives us 4 Q1 games. You’re just not going to do much better than that.
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Old 05-25-2022, 04:24 PM
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Maybe my math is horribly off here

13 OOC games, 18 A10 games (I assume they haven't gone to a 20 game schedule)

3 for Atlantis, 1 for Virginia Tech and 1 Wyoming away from UD Arena.

9 home games in A10 play, 8 OOC games left to schedule

If they scheduled another road/neutral game and played the rest of the OOC at home I believe that would put them at 16 home/15 away

Take the current schedule, add a series starting at home and another road/neutral and that seems like it would be a solid schedule
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Old 05-25-2022, 04:52 PM
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Unless the rules have changed, you get 30 games per season. Your conference post-season tourney and any exempt in-season tourney each count as 1 game.

Then the A-10 plays an 18-game conference schedule.

So think about it as 20 games spoken for (actually 23+, 9 home, 9 road, and 4+ neutral), and 10 you can fiddle with.

To fit the athletic budget, we're assuming 7 of the 10 must be true home games, which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Remember, too, there's that rumored mega-bracket-buster thingie in February (which would be one home game and one road game, both against quality opponents), which would essentially leave us full-up, save for buy games.
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Old 05-25-2022, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Scaia View Post
Unless the rules have changed, you get 30 games per season. Your conference post-season tourney and any exempt in-season tourney each count as 1 game.

Then the A-10 plays an 18-game conference schedule.

So think about it as 20 games spoken for (actually 23+, 9 home, 9 road, and 4+ neutral), and 10 you can fiddle with.

To fit the athletic budget, we're assuming 7 of the 10 must be true home games, which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Remember, too, there's that rumored mega-bracket-buster thingie in February (which would be one home game and one road game, both against quality opponents), which would essentially leave us full-up, save for buy games.

They changed the rules to allow 31


In April 2020, the Division I Council passed legislation that allows men's basketball programs to schedule up to 28 regular-season games and participate in an MTE that has up to three games, or 29 regular-season games while participating in an MTE that has up to two games, for a total of 31 games in either scheduling option.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...ketball-season
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Old 05-25-2022, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Scaia View Post
Unless the rules have changed, you get 30 games per season. Your conference post-season tourney and any exempt in-season tourney each count as 1 game.

Then the A-10 plays an 18-game conference schedule.

So think about it as 20 games spoken for (actually 23+, 9 home, 9 road, and 4+ neutral), and 10 you can fiddle with.

To fit the athletic budget, we're assuming 7 of the 10 must be true home games, which doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. Remember, too, there's that rumored mega-bracket-buster thingie in February (which would be one home game and one road game, both against quality opponents), which would essentially leave us full-up, save for buy games.
31 games. The a10t does not count towards the 31.

So, 18 a10 games, 3 exempt games, and 10 to do whatever you want with. 13 ooc games total.

Of those 10, 7 at home and 3 r/ n would be fine with me. We agree on everything. Too bad UD doesn't agree. UD mandates that 8 of those 10 be at home.

And it would be great if we could limit the number of buy games to just 4 or 5 of the 8. Last year we played 7 of the 8 as buy games. But I understand that it is extremely difficult to get good home games.

If we play a road game in the Feb thingy, I will retract my criticism. That would be the first time ever that we would do a 7/3 split with the 10 remaining games.

Last edited by ud2; 05-25-2022 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 05-25-2022, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
31 games. The a10t does not count towards the 31.

So, 18 a10 games, 3 exempt games, and 10 to do whatever you want with. 13 ooc games total.

Of those 10, 7 at home and 3 r/ n would be fine with me. We agree on everything. Too bad UD doesn't agree. UD mandates that 8 of those 10 be at home.

And it would be great if we could limit the number of buy games to just 4 or 5 of the 8. Last year we played 7 of the 8 as buy games. But I understand that it is extremely difficult to get good home games.

If we play a road game in the Feb thingy, I will retract my criticism. That would be the first time ever that we would do a 7/3 split with the 10 remaining games.
It is amazing that you continue to complain over and over and over about ONE frickin' game. 16/15 would be great, but 17/14 is terrible.
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Old 05-26-2022, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
It is amazing that you continue to complain over and over and over about ONE frickin' game. 16/15 would be great, but 17/14 is terrible.
Not that I’m defending UD2 but it really is two games. Instead of two buy games, UD schedules two additional H/H series-one at home and one away.

Playing two sub 100 teams vs two teams above 250 would help the strength of the non con schedule and could improve UD’s chances of making the dance or improve seed line (if they win the games). His point is not without merit. That said, he’s just being stubborn to not admit UD has financial considerations as well as scheduling considerations.
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Old 05-26-2022, 10:52 AM
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What is the argument here? There hasn’t been a year I remember in the past 15-20 years where the non-conference schedule has limited our chances to get into the tournament so why give away a home game and the revenue to fix something that isn’t broken?

Personal preference isn’t fact. Saying people who don’t agree with you ‘settle for mediocrity’ is juvenile at best.

Bottom line: Despite all the factors and real obstacles that exist, UD has done a masterful job of meeting financial needs and providing a schedule that provides UD the chance to get an at-large bid if they execute. Not sure what else is rational to expect from them in their current state and conference.
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Old 05-26-2022, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
What is the argument here? There hasn’t been a year I remember in the past 15-20 years where the non-conference schedule has limited our chances to get into the tournament so why give away a home game and the revenue to fix something that isn’t broken?

Personal preference isn’t fact. Saying people who don’t agree with you ‘settle for mediocrity’ is juvenile at best.

Bottom line: Despite all the factors and real obstacles that exist, UD has done a masterful job of meeting financial needs and providing a schedule that provides UD the chance to get an at-large bid if they execute. Not sure what else is rational to expect from them in their current state and conference.
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Exactly!!!

And it goes back beyond 15-20 years.

I remember not getting into the dance because we either/and; lost too many games to mediocre teams, didn't win enough games against good teams, didn't win enough games, lost too many games.

Not once have we blamed the schedule for our failure to reach the post season. Which makes it laughable to give up home game revenue to insure it doesn't happen some day.

Now as a fan, I would love an ooc schedule loaded with top ranked opponents. But financially it makes no sense.
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Old 05-26-2022, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Not that I’m defending UD2 but it really is two games. Instead of two buy games, UD schedules two additional H/H series-one at home and one away.
That would make it 16/15 instead of 17/14. That is one game. His argument is he wants one more road/neutral game.
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Old 05-26-2022, 02:40 PM
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Am I correct in remembering that the 16 is the baseline number of games UD needs to meet its financial need?
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Am I correct in remembering that the 16 is the baseline number of games UD needs to meet its financial need?
I have never heard that stated as fact. Could be 17.
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
What is the argument here? There hasn’t been a year I remember in the past 15-20 years where the non-conference schedule has limited our chances to get into the tournament so why give away a home game and the revenue to fix something that isn’t broken?

Personal preference isn’t fact. Saying people who don’t agree with you ‘settle for mediocrity’ is juvenile at best.

Bottom line: Despite all the factors and real obstacles that exist, UD has done a masterful job of meeting financial needs and providing a schedule that provides UD the chance to get an at-large bid if they execute. Not sure what else is rational to expect from them in their current state and conference.
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I can recall two years where the OOC results were not our friend, last year and 18-19
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
I can recall two years where the OOC results were not our friend, last year and 18-19
Our non-con SOS was very good in both of those years. Certainly the scheduler can't also be blamed for the results.
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Old 05-26-2022, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
I have never heard that stated as fact. Could be 17.
I feel like Chris got the number in his interview with Neil but possible my memory is faulty
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Old 05-26-2022, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
I can recall two years where the OOC results were not our friend, last year and 18-19
That was not the fault of the schedule. It was a problem of not winning enough games.
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Old 05-26-2022, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
I can recall two years where the OOC results were not our friend, last year and 18-19
Losing games 2-4 at the Arena this past season was not a scheduling problem, it was a performance problem.

In 2018-2019 the Flyers played 6 quality OOC(Butler, Virginia, Oklahoma, Miss St., Auburn and Tulsa) games and lost 5 of them(Only winning their 1st against Butler).

I'm confused as to what your saying. Are you saying that our schedule was too weak last season and too tough in 2018-2019? I'm going to guess that most here think the Flyers were left out of both NCAA tourneys due to their performance rather than schedule. I certainly didn't think either team accomplished enough to get there and like everyone else, was shocked to find out we were last team out the past season.
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Old 05-26-2022, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
That would make it 16/15 instead of 17/14. That is one game. His argument is he wants one more road/neutral game.
Yes, one more road game but the other side of “one more road game” is one more home game against a H/H worthy opponent (assuming the game then has a return game the next year).
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Old 05-26-2022, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Are you saying that our schedule was too weak last season and too tough in 2018-2019? I'm going to guess that most here think the Flyers were left out of both NCAA tourneys due to their performance rather than schedule. I certainly didn't think either team accomplished enough to get there and like everyone else, was shocked to find out we were last team out the past season.
An argument could be made that if UD had started two H/H series with (for arguments sake) UAB at home (final NET ranking 49) and Marquette on road (50) instead of Austin Peay (289) and Lipscomb (268) both at home, UD would have made the dance since the committee said they were the last team out. Replacing two bad losses with two acceptable losses would have made the schedule not as weak and probably allows UD to jump a couple last four in teams.

Granted last year was a complete aberration. And, as I indicated earlier, I’ve come to accept the financial constraints. I just think UD2’s position is not as crazy as some on here want to admit. Just because “it hasn’t hurt us in the past” is not a valid reason to continue to always do what you do AND it probably did hurt UD last year. It never hurts to question paradigms.

Last edited by springborofan; 05-26-2022 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 05-26-2022, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
An argument could be made that if UD had started two H/H series with (for arguments sake) UAB at home (final NET ranking 49) and Marquette on road (50)
I thought Marquette still owed us a game but after we beat them in 2003 it was never played
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Old 05-26-2022, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
An argument could be made that if UD had started two H/H series with (for arguments sake) UAB at home (final NET ranking 49) and Marquette on road (50) instead of Austin Peay (289) and Lipscomb (268) both at home, UD would have made the dance since the committee said they were the last team out. Replacing two bad losses with two acceptable losses would have made the schedule not as weak and probably allows UD to jump a couple last four in teams.

Granted last year was a complete aberration. And, as I indicated earlier, I’ve come to accept the financial constraints. I just think UD2’s position is not as crazy as some on here want to admit. Just because “it hasn’t hurt us in the past” is not a valid reason to continue to always do what you do AND it probably did hurt UD last year. It never hurts to question paradigms.
You seem to be saying that our non-con schedule hurt us last year. That is not true. We beat Miami, Kansas, Belmont, and Virginia Tech (and also played SMU and Ole Miss). Losing those buy games is what hurt us. And even with those losses we would have made the tourney had we beaten Richmond in the A-10 tournament because of our strong non-con schedule and good non-con wins.
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Old 05-26-2022, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
An argument could be made that if UD had started two H/H series with (for arguments sake) UAB at home (final NET ranking 49) and Marquette on road (50) instead of Austin Peay (289) and Lipscomb (268) both at home, UD would have made the dance since the committee said they were the last team out. Replacing two bad losses with two acceptable losses would have made the schedule not as weak and probably allows UD to jump a couple last four in teams.

Granted last year was a complete aberration. And, as I indicated earlier, I’ve come to accept the financial constraints. I just think UD2’s position is not as crazy as some on here want to admit. Just because “it hasn’t hurt us in the past” is not a valid reason to continue to always do what you do AND it probably did hurt UD last year. It never hurts to question paradigms.
I don't buy that and here's why.

I'm going to start with the assumption that they would have been blown out of the water from start to finish playing more quality opponents, especially one on the road. As young and inexperienced as they were, that would've been worse on their psyche heading to Orlando. There were some good things that happened during those games like Camara and Holmes showing some of their skills. If they'd played more quality teams, they probably would've been totally demoralized and the showing in Orlando might have been totally different. At least with the games they played, they could look within themselves and realize they should've won those games. But if they would've been through 2 or 3 more total beatdowns, they might have been questioning whether they just aren't good enough.

I realize they got blown up by Lipscomb, but in the other games, even the first one that they won by the skin of their teeth, they could evaluate what went wrong and what they need to do to keep it from happening in the future. Being totally frustrated from start to finish by Marquette and UAB wouldn't have given them the same perspective.
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Old 05-26-2022, 07:58 PM
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Why do you assume they would have been blown out by Marquette and UAB? Obviously they had the potential to beat Miami, Kansas, and Belmont. Why not one of these two teams? Maybe they didn’t prepare well enough for any of the three buy games assuming they would just walk all over them. You are making a leap that is broader than my assumption the committee moves them up 1 or 2 spots by losing to better opponents.

It’s all speculation on all of our parts so it’s not worth going in to it any deeper. I was just trying to discuss other scenarios as food for thought.
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Old 05-26-2022, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Losing games 2-4 at the Arena this past season was not a scheduling problem, it was a performance problem.

In 2018-2019 the Flyers played 6 quality OOC(Butler, Virginia, Oklahoma, Miss St., Auburn and Tulsa) games and lost 5 of them(Only winning their 1st against Butler).

I'm confused as to what your saying. Are you saying that our schedule was too weak last season and too tough in 2018-2019? I'm going to guess that most here think the Flyers were left out of both NCAA tourneys due to their performance rather than schedule. I certainly didn't think either team accomplished enough to get there and like everyone else, was shocked to find out we were last team out the past season.
I'm saying the schedule was fine, the results were not good enough to dance.
Normally the OOC schedule is a strength, assuming we win, and puts us in position to dance. In those two years it was the OCC record specifically that kept us from dancing. I think the Admin. does a good job of scheduling, especially given the difficilty in getting P5 home games.
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Old 05-26-2022, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Why do you assume they would have been blown out by Marquette and UAB? Obviously they had the potential to beat Miami, Kansas, and Belmont. Why not one of these two teams? Maybe they didn’t prepare well enough for any of the three buy games assuming they would just walk all over them. You are making a leap that is broader than my assumption the committee moves them up 1 or 2 spots by losing to better opponents.

It’s all speculation on all of our parts so it’s not worth going in to it any deeper. I was just trying to discuss other scenarios as food for thought.
Because they were a very young team that had no experience playing together and very little playing in AG's system. That's why. This wasn't a motivation issue, it was an inexperience issue and they most likely would've been blown out of the water playing higher quality opponents.

To me it's obvious that the Flyers lack of experience was the obvious problem as we watched them go from losing those 3 games at home to being considered a bubble NCAA team to being predicted to be top 20 next year. They improved by leaps and bounds and to me it's obvious what the problem was and what the cure was. Problem inexperience, cure experience.

They had no floor leader until Mali grabbed it and it took him until Orlando to really gel. If there was a motivational effect on the Flyers record it was probably on the part of Kansas and Miami who probably just assumed they would walk all over the Flyers. If the Jayhawks had more respect for us going into that game, I have a feeling we would've lost by double digits.

Last edited by Smitty10; 05-26-2022 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:03 PM
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UAB would be a good realistic home and home opponent.
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Old 05-28-2022, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
An argument could be made that if UD had started two H/H series with (for arguments sake) UAB at home (final NET ranking 49) and Marquette on road (50) instead of Austin Peay (289) and Lipscomb (268) both at home, UD would have made the dance since the committee said they were the last team out. Replacing two bad losses with two acceptable losses would have made the schedule not as weak and probably allows UD to jump a couple last four in teams.
It's an interesting argument, but there is no way of knowing how that would have played out in the selection committee room. As you mention we were the "last" (first) team out of the tournament. In fact, we were in the field on Selection Sunday at noon. Richmond stole our bid when they beat Davidson. (Though, Texas A&M had the change to steal the bid as well...)

So the Flyers had a good enough schedule last year to get in to the field WITH 4 DEVASTATING LOSSES. So, our schedule last year did not keep us out of the tournament, and actually it got us into the tournament because we had good wins on our schedule. (Granted, that's probably the ESPN tournament sweep of Miami, Kansas and Belmont.)

If we had the H/H's as you mention, the strength of schedule would have been better, our Quad 4 losses would be less, and instead we'd have more Q1/Q2 losses. But, we wouldn't have had any more good wins. We have no idea if it would have changed the minds of the committee members. On the flip side, if that schedule change HAD happened, would those 2 teams (Marquette was clearly in [35 seed], and UAB [48 seed, right after Notre Dame] won their conference tournament.) made it in before us?

I'll probably keep beating this drum for years. The Flyers with the type of scheduling as all other years, and with 3 really bad losses, still had a bracket resume that would have been in the field except for a stolen bid.

--Figgie
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Old 05-28-2022, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
It's an interesting argument, but there is no way of knowing how that would have played out in the selection committee room. As you mention we were the "last" (first) team out of the tournament. In fact, we were in the field on Selection Sunday at noon. Richmond stole our bid when they beat Davidson. (Though, Texas A&M had the change to steal the bid as well...)

So the Flyers had a good enough schedule last year to get in to the field WITH 4 DEVASTATING LOSSES. So, our schedule last year did not keep us out of the tournament, and actually it got us into the tournament because we had good wins on our schedule. (Granted, that's probably the ESPN tournament sweep of Miami, Kansas and Belmont.)

If we had the H/H's as you mention, the strength of schedule would have been better, our Quad 4 losses would be less, and instead we'd have more Q1/Q2 losses. But, we wouldn't have had any more good wins. We have no idea if it would have changed the minds of the committee members. On the flip side, if that schedule change HAD happened, would those 2 teams (Marquette was clearly in [35 seed], and UAB [48 seed, right after Notre Dame] won their conference tournament.) made it in before us?

I'll probably keep beating this drum for years. The Flyers with the type of scheduling as all other years, and with 3 really bad losses, still had a bracket resume that would have been in the field except for a stolen bid.

--Figgie
Agree 100%. Our OOC schedule is effective regarding setting us up for the Dance, has been for a long time. Would adding P5 schools be a plus, sure but win in our current model and we are fine. ESPN sure helps though. The early season brain fart still had us in till the Spidies won. Would rather not go that route again though.
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Old 05-28-2022, 01:57 PM
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Scheduling also matters for recruiting. Much easier to get the next Holmes if you can point to good games in the OOC schedule
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Old 05-31-2022, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
An argument could be made that if UD had started two H/H series with (for arguments sake) UAB at home (final NET ranking 49) and Marquette on road (50) instead of Austin Peay (289) and Lipscomb (268) both at home, UD would have made the dance since the committee said they were the last team out. Replacing two bad losses with two acceptable losses would have made the schedule not as weak and probably allows UD to jump a couple last four in teams.

Granted last year was a complete aberration. And, as I indicated earlier, I’ve come to accept the financial constraints. I just think UD2’s position is not as crazy as some on here want to admit. Just because “it hasn’t hurt us in the past” is not a valid reason to continue to always do what you do AND it probably did hurt UD last year. It never hurts to question paradigms.
After the fact, arguments become much easier to make. If you tell me which games we are going to lose every year, I can tell you who we should schedule instead. I don't care who is on the rest of the schedule, if you lose those three games at home you are going to have a tough time unless you play in a P5 league and basically have a chance for two top 100 wins every week.
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